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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » A Black Mage Uses 15 Skills

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61 posts found
  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

6/24/13 4:33:34 AM#41

I luv when people get upset when they here a dam rotation system, all MMOs have a DPS rotation system if you know what your doing, some may be based on situations bt anyone who has played a char long enough know what order to activate their powers in to get the effect they want even in the games that claim to be skill based instead of build base.

the problem is that people honestly beleave that when you give people power that only work in specific situations they think it means the game is more skill based when in reality it less cause its spelled out for people what to do in said situations.

you want skill bassed combat go play a FPS or 3rdPS I know people are trying to convert MMOs to this system as well and I do admit to enjoying some of them but I also enjoy my tab targeting old style MMO as well, so people shouldn't harp in it as much and say it makes it a horrible game, no all it is is a different style of play not good or bad.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  saurus123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 530

6/24/13 4:47:01 AM#42

damn there goes the "tactical" combat

 

just follow teh rotation

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

6/24/13 6:37:55 AM#43
Originally posted by colddog04

They actually get 24 skills but 6 of them are redundant (Fire/Ice/Thunder 1 and 2) ...

I stopped right there since you obviously have no idea how the skills work or how to play THM | BLM.

Let me start with Thunder:

Thunder 1 - 3 stack adding up to a 120 damage potency per second.

Every tick from any of these 3 stacks has a 5% chance to give you an Instant Cast, No MP, Thunder 3 that also adds it's full damage over time to the spell. That is a free 900-1000 damage nuke with an 18 second dot for a total of 1.8k damage and the chance to trigger the same thing over again.

 

Now let's take a look at Fire:

Fire 1 has a potency of 150, low casting time and gives you a 30% chance to get an instant cast, no MP cost Fire 3. It is the most Mana effective and highest DPS spell THM | BLM has and it provides a free Tier 3 Nuke in 1 out of 3 times.

 

I will not go into more details about other tactics and tricks on how to use your spells and abilities but please do read and understand the spells before you make posts like this that contain nothing but wrong information that misguides new players.

Originally posted by Ayulin

"But... It's just a spam fest, and all you're doing is pressing 1,2,3 over and over again, ad nauseum!" - according to certain others around here and elsewhere.

Originally posted by saurus123

damn there goes the "tactical" combat

just follow teh rotation

NO, the OP just has no idea how to play the game and it saddens me that people can't even read and understand the spells they use in a game. Is the attention span that low these days?

You have to watch your dots, watch your triggers/combos and react accordingly. It can't be further from pressing 1,2,3. If you actually do that you suck at BLM | THM  (see above examples why)

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  Kajidourden

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 297

6/24/13 6:44:45 AM#44
Originally posted by Squeak69

the problem is that people honestly beleave that when you give people power that only work in specific situations they think it means the game is more skill based when in reality it less cause its spelled out for people what to do in said situations.

 

^ This x100

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

 
OP  6/24/13 9:27:44 AM#45
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04

They actually get 24 skills but 6 of them are redundant (Fire/Ice/Thunder 1 and 2) ...

I stopped right there since you obviously have no idea how the skills work or how to play THM | BLM.

Let me start with Thunder:

Thunder 1 - 3 stack adding up to a 120 damage potency per second.

Every tick from any of these 3 stacks has a 5% chance to give you an Instant Cast, No MP, Thunder 3 that also adds it's full damage over time to the spell. That is a free 900-1000 damage nuke with an 18 second dot for a total of 1.8k damage and the chance to trigger the same thing over again.

 

Now let's take a look at Fire:

Fire 1 has a potency of 150, low casting time and gives you a 30% chance to get an instant cast, no MP cost Fire 3. It is the most Mana effective and highest DPS spell THM | BLM has and it provides a free Tier 3 Nuke in 1 out of 3 times.

 

I will not go into more details about other tactics and tricks on how to use your spells and abilities but please do read and understand the spells before you make posts like this that contain nothing but wrong information that misguides new players.

Originally posted by Ayulin

"But... It's just a spam fest, and all you're doing is pressing 1,2,3 over and over again, ad nauseum!" - according to certain others around here and elsewhere.

Originally posted by saurus123

damn there goes the "tactical" combat

just follow teh rotation

NO, the OP just has no idea how to play the game and it saddens me that people can't even read and understand the spells they use in a game. Is the attention span that low these days?

You have to watch your dots, watch your triggers/combos and react accordingly. It can't be further from pressing 1,2,3. If you actually do that you suck at BLM | THM  (see above examples why)

Blegh, you're analysis is all messed up. I've been working on it since the other guy pointed out that you can have 3 stacks of thunder up.

 

First, yes, you are able to stack thunders and I did not know this when I wrote the original post. That shows my lack of experience and it's not something I had expected.

 

Second, thunder does not tick every second. It ticks every 3 seconds. Also, it does not give you 1000 potency on the instant cast. For thunder, it's 190. Thunder 2, 250. Thunder 3, 300. 

 

Third, regular Fire I does have the highest dps of the fires by ~2.85 (Fire I 60 vs Fire III ~57.15). What you (and me) were missing was that you can stack the three Astral Fire debuffs as well. So this means, ideally, you would want all Astral Fire buffs up at all times for an incredible DPS boost and use transpose between Astral and Umber to gain mana back. You would not want any of the umbral to drop off during the twelve second wait for Transpose to come back up, and so you are forced to cast Blizzard 3, 2, 1 in succession which uses up 9 seconds and leaves Umbral 3 with 3.5 seconds remaining on it.  That means you have 3.5 seconds before you need to cast Transpose again with a .5 second window which would be the perfect time to throw a thunder in there. The only ones that will actually fit are thunder 1 or 2 because otherwise Umbral 3 will drop off and you'll lose your 3 Astral Fires. Your goal for maximum DPS is spamming out Fire 1,2,3 in succession for as long as your mana can take it.

 

Now, this is all assuming you are attacking a dummy. In most cases, people aren't going to be able to just stand there and unload like that while barely getting their transpose off with .5 seconds remaining. Almost all people are going to need to pop instants and their reaction time won't be perfect. This makes thunders use a very questionable decision. Those extra 3 seconds can be largely useful in properly maintaining your buffs, using your instants correctly to ensure you have a smooth transition between transposes and using movement during a tough fight.

 

Basically, the Blackmage has a priority style rotation. I'll come up with some stuff to put in the original post to detail how it should ideally work as is. I'll leave the simple rotation I originally put up there because it works well for low level Thaumaturges and gives a basic understanding of what to expect.

 

Also, I'm going to start assuming that all of the archer skills work for magic even though their tooltips seemed very cloudy and one even specifically mentioned "physical damage" and one mentioned "attack power." This is beta and I'm just going to assume the tooltips were incorrect at this point.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

6/24/13 9:40:36 AM#46
One just has to assume the Archer skills work for BLM, otherwise their inclusion into the job is supremely pointless, and since YoshiP took over, the number of supremely pointless design decisions has dropped sharply :)
  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

6/24/13 9:45:18 AM#47
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04

They actually get 24 skills but 6 of them are redundant (Fire/Ice/Thunder 1 and 2) ...

I stopped right there since you obviously have no idea how the skills work or how to play THM | BLM.

Let me start with Thunder:

Thunder 1 - 3 stack adding up to a 120 damage potency per second.

Every tick from any of these 3 stacks has a 5% chance to give you an Instant Cast, No MP, Thunder 3 that also adds it's full damage over time to the spell. That is a free 900-1000 damage nuke with an 18 second dot for a total of 1.8k damage and the chance to trigger the same thing over again.

 

Now let's take a look at Fire:

Fire 1 has a potency of 150, low casting time and gives you a 30% chance to get an instant cast, no MP cost Fire 3. It is the most Mana effective and highest DPS spell THM | BLM has and it provides a free Tier 3 Nuke in 1 out of 3 times.

 I will not go into more details about other tactics and tricks on how to use your spells and abilities but please do read and understand the spells before you make posts like this that contain nothing but wrong information that misguides new players.

Blegh, you're analysis is all messed up. I've been working on it since the other guy pointed out that you can have 3 stacks of thunder up.

My analysis is based on playing the class at level 50 just 2 days ago. I know what i am talking about!

First, yes, you are able to stack thunders and I did not know this when I wrote the original post. That shows my lack of experience and it's not something I had expected.

Maybe read the skills description before posting WRONG information and maybe play the class too. It helps when you know what you are talking about. Why even post if you have not even played the class?

Second, thunder does not tick every second. It ticks every 3 seconds. Also, it does not give you 1000 potency on the instant cast. For thunder, it's 190. Thunder 2, 250. Thunder 3, 300. 

Sadly you still can't read or you don't understand what you read.

It gives you the full damage the 18 seconds will give as additional spell damage. That is: 40 x 18 + 300 modified by your INT and its able to crit! Do the maths before posting more false information!

Third, regular Fire I does have the highest dps of the fires by ~2.85 (Fire I 60 vs Fire III ~57.15). What you (and me) were missing was that you can stack the three Astral Fire debuffs as well. So this means, ideally, you would want all Astral Fire buffs up at all times for an incredible DPS boost and use transpose between Astral and Umber to gain mana back. You would not want any of the umbral to drop off during the twelve second wait for Transpose to come back up, and so you are forced to cast Blizzard 3, 2, 1 in succession which uses up 9 seconds and leaves Umbral 3 with 3.5 seconds remaining on it.  That means you have 3.5 seconds before you need to cast Transpose again with a .5 second window which would be the perfect time to throw a thunder in there. The only ones that will actually fit are thunder 1 or 2 because otherwise Umbral 3 will drop off and you'll lose your 3 Astral Fires. Your goal for maximum DPS is spamming out Fire 1,2,3 in succession for as long as your mana can take it.

This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.

You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above. 

You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

6/24/13 9:57:46 AM#48
Originally posted by taus01

This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.

Not 3 different buffs, but one buff that can stack up to 3 times, right?

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

 
OP  6/24/13 9:57:46 AM#49
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04

They actually get 24 skills but 6 of them are redundant (Fire/Ice/Thunder 1 and 2) ...

I stopped right there since you obviously have no idea how the skills work or how to play THM | BLM.

Let me start with Thunder:

Thunder 1 - 3 stack adding up to a 120 damage potency per second.

Every tick from any of these 3 stacks has a 5% chance to give you an Instant Cast, No MP, Thunder 3 that also adds it's full damage over time to the spell. That is a free 900-1000 damage nuke with an 18 second dot for a total of 1.8k damage and the chance to trigger the same thing over again.

 

Now let's take a look at Fire:

Fire 1 has a potency of 150, low casting time and gives you a 30% chance to get an instant cast, no MP cost Fire 3. It is the most Mana effective and highest DPS spell THM | BLM has and it provides a free Tier 3 Nuke in 1 out of 3 times.

 I will not go into more details about other tactics and tricks on how to use your spells and abilities but please do read and understand the spells before you make posts like this that contain nothing but wrong information that misguides new players.

Blegh, you're analysis is all messed up. I've been working on it since the other guy pointed out that you can have 3 stacks of thunder up.

My analysis is based on playing the class at level 50 just 2 days ago. I know what i am talking about!

First, yes, you are able to stack thunders and I did not know this when I wrote the original post. That shows my lack of experience and it's not something I had expected.

Maybe read the skills description before posting WRONG information and maybe play the class too. It helps when you know what you are talking about. Why even post if you have not even played the class?

The skill descriptions say nothing about stacking. Yes, I was wrong about thunder. But here we are at a point where you actually play the class and know less than I do about it. I posted because I have fun theory crafting. And I am revising as I go and figure out more about the class. This whole site has been one big complaint about how FFXIV revolves around pushing 1,2,3 in succession. The closer we actually get to the truth, the better off everyone will be.

Second, thunder does not tick every second. It ticks every 3 seconds. Also, it does not give you 1000 potency on the instant cast. For thunder, it's 190. Thunder 2, 250. Thunder 3, 300. 

Sadly you still can't read or you don't understand what you read.

It gives you the full damage the 18 seconds will give as additional spell damage. That is: 40 x 18 + 300 modified by your INT and its able to crit! Do the maths before posting more false information!

Sorry, you are just wrong. Thunder ticks every 3 seconds, not one second. And we are talking about potency here as actual raw damage can change from person to person depending on gear, etc. It would be nice if you didn't backpedal by trying to change what we are talking about.

Third, regular Fire I does have the highest dps of the fires by ~2.85 (Fire I 60 vs Fire III ~57.15). What you (and me) were missing was that you can stack the three Astral Fire debuffs as well. So this means, ideally, you would want all Astral Fire buffs up at all times for an incredible DPS boost and use transpose between Astral and Umber to gain mana back. You would not want any of the umbral to drop off during the twelve second wait for Transpose to come back up, and so you are forced to cast Blizzard 3, 2, 1 in succession which uses up 9 seconds and leaves Umbral 3 with 3.5 seconds remaining on it.  That means you have 3.5 seconds before you need to cast Transpose again with a .5 second window which would be the perfect time to throw a thunder in there. The only ones that will actually fit are thunder 1 or 2 because otherwise Umbral 3 will drop off and you'll lose your 3 Astral Fires. Your goal for maximum DPS is spamming out Fire 1,2,3 in succession for as long as your mana can take it.

You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?

As I said, it's theorycrafting. You can either come in and insult people or you can come in and help. You have been wrong a few times already and I haven't insulted you. Obviously just because someone plays a class, it doesn't mean that they understand it. You made that apparent with your thunder comments.

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

 
OP  6/24/13 10:03:04 AM#50
Originally posted by taus01

This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.

You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above. 

You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?

You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

6/24/13 10:19:48 AM#51
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01

This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.

You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above. 

You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?

You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?

I am sorry, i don't want to offend you or talk you down. But you have no clue because you did not play it and you just making things up giving everyone the wrong information!

1. Read the description of the thunder proc. Understand it then do the maths. I am not backpedaling. Just READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. I do the maths for you again. 40 x 18 + 300 = ???

2. You don't need to wait 12 seconds. You don't even know how much MP Umbral restores per tick so you can't even accurately say how long you need to wait. You just make things up having NOT PLAYED THE GAME

3. Transpose from Fire 3 does not give you Umbral 3 or vice versa. That's all i am going to say. Again, you are not reading the skills and you have not played the characters.

Here is something to wrap your head around. You can transpose, instant cast sleep while the mob has 3 stacks of thunder DOT on him, lethargy it, stone skin yourself, transpose and off you go nuking again possibly with a free 1000+ thunder 3. The DOT does not wake up the mob.

Again, I play tested it this weekend on my level 50 THM | BLM. I spend about 1.5 hours on level 50 water elementals testing damage, spells, rotations, skills from other classes, Darklight Gear, AF Gear, food and much more.

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

 
OP  6/24/13 10:45:35 AM#52
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01

This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.

You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above. 

You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?

You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?

I am sorry, i don't want to offend you or talk you down. But you have no clue because you did not play it and you just making things up giving everyone the wrong information!

1. Read the description of the thunder proc. Understand it then do the maths. I am not backpedaling. Just READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. I do the maths for you again. 40 x 18 + 300 = ???

Thunder III only procs 6 times over 18 seconds, not 18 times over 18 seconds. And there is only a 5% chance of it proccing an instant every time it ticks for each stack of thunder. And the instant only does 300 total potency (40 per tick x 6 procs + 60 original potency). I don't know why you are not accepting that Thunder procs every 3 seconds, not 1 second. Especially since you played I would have thought you would have been aware of this.

2. You don't need to wait 12 seconds. You don't even know how much MP Umbral restores per tick so you can't even accurately say how long you need to wait. You just make things up having NOT PLAYED THE GAME

I have played the game by the way. And you do need to wait at least 12 seconds to recast transpose. I'm not sure what you are reading or what you are playing, but transpose has a 12 second cooldown.

3. Transpose from Fire 3 does not give you Umbral 3 or vice versa. That's all i am going to say. Again, you are not reading the skills and you have not played the characters.

Here is something to wrap your head around. You can transpose, instant cast sleep while the mob has 3 stacks of thunder DOT on him, lethargy it, stone skin yourself, transpose and off you go nuking again possibly with a free 1000+ thunder 3. The DOT does not wake up the mob.

I'm aware you can do other things. I was talking about doing optimal DPS in a group. And your ideas about thunder are just incredibly off. And when it comes to your idea about transpose, the buffs would have expired 2 seconds ago because transpose has a 12 second cooldown and the buffs only last 10 seconds. That is why I would recommend when keeping the buffs up that you cast the longest cast first so that when you get to the end of 9 seconds worth of casting, you still have as much time as possible to do some things in between.

Again, I play tested it this weekend on my level 50 THM | BLM. I spend about 1.5 hours on level 50 water elementals testing damage, spells, rotations, skills from other classes, Darklight Gear, AF Gear, food and much more.

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2646

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

6/24/13 10:50:05 AM#53
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01

This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.

You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above. 

You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?

You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?

I am sorry, i don't want to offend you or talk you down. But you have no clue because you did not play it and you just making things up giving everyone the wrong information!

1. Read the description of the thunder proc. Understand it then do the maths. I am not backpedaling. Just READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. I do the maths for you again. 40 x 18 + 300 = ???

Thunder III only procs 6 times over 18 seconds, not 18 times over 18 seconds. And there is only a 5% chance of it proccing an instant every time it ticks. And the instant only does 300 total potency (40 per tick x 6 procs + 60 original potency). I don't know why you are not accepting that Thunder procs every 3 seconds, not 1 second. Especially since you played I would have thought you would have been aware of this.

2. You don't need to wait 12 seconds. You don't even know how much MP Umbral restores per tick so you can't even accurately say how long you need to wait. You just make things up having NOT PLAYED THE GAME

I have played the game by the way. And you do need to wait at least 12 seconds to recast transpose. I'm not sure what you are reading or what you are playing, but transpose has a 12 second cooldown.

3. Transpose from Fire 3 does not give you Umbral 3 or vice versa. That's all i am going to say. Again, you are not reading the skills and you have not played the characters.

Here is something to wrap your head around. You can transpose, instant cast sleep while the mob has 3 stacks of thunder DOT on him, lethargy it, stone skin yourself, transpose and off you go nuking again possibly with a free 1000+ thunder 3. The DOT does not wake up the mob.

I'm aware you can do other things. I was talking about doing optimal DPS in a group. And your ideas about thunder are just incredibly off. And when it comes to your idea about transpose, the buffs would have expired 2 seconds ago because transpose has a 12 second cooldown and the buffs only last 10 seconds. That is why I would recommend when keeping the buffs up that you cast the longest cast first so that when you get to the end of 9 seconds worth of casting, you still have as much time as possible to do some things in between.

Again, I play tested it this weekend on my level 50 THM | BLM. I spend about 1.5 hours on level 50 water elementals testing damage, spells, rotations, skills from other classes, Darklight Gear, AF Gear, food and much more.

 

Sorry OP but you really have no clue, you are not taking into account the gear bonus's and such that lower all your times and what not....just stop trying to talk from your lvl 15 experience when a lvl 50 fully decked is telling you otherwise. Your basing your claims off of tooltips...

  Dfix

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/12
Posts: 256

6/24/13 10:56:09 AM#54
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01

This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.

You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above. 

You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?

You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?

I am sorry, i don't want to offend you or talk you down. But you have no clue because you did not play it and you just making things up giving everyone the wrong information!

1. Read the description of the thunder proc. Understand it then do the maths. I am not backpedaling. Just READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. I do the maths for you again. 40 x 18 + 300 = ???

Thunder III only procs 6 times over 18 seconds, not 18 times over 18 seconds. And there is only a 5% chance of it proccing an instant every time it ticks. And the instant only does 300 total potency (40 per tick x 6 procs + 60 original potency). I don't know why you are not accepting that Thunder procs every 3 seconds, not 1 second. Especially since you played I would have thought you would have been aware of this.

2. You don't need to wait 12 seconds. You don't even know how much MP Umbral restores per tick so you can't even accurately say how long you need to wait. You just make things up having NOT PLAYED THE GAME

I have played the game by the way. And you do need to wait at least 12 seconds to recast transpose. I'm not sure what you are reading or what you are playing, but transpose has a 12 second cooldown.

3. Transpose from Fire 3 does not give you Umbral 3 or vice versa. That's all i am going to say. Again, you are not reading the skills and you have not played the characters.

Here is something to wrap your head around. You can transpose, instant cast sleep while the mob has 3 stacks of thunder DOT on him, lethargy it, stone skin yourself, transpose and off you go nuking again possibly with a free 1000+ thunder 3. The DOT does not wake up the mob.

I'm aware you can do other things. I was talking about doing optimal DPS in a group. And your ideas about thunder are just incredibly off. And when it comes to your idea about transpose, the buffs would have expired 2 seconds ago because transpose has a 12 second cooldown and the buffs only last 10 seconds. That is why I would recommend when keeping the buffs up that you cast the longest cast first so that when you get to the end of 9 seconds worth of casting, you still have as much time as possible to do some things in between.

Again, I play tested it this weekend on my level 50 THM | BLM. I spend about 1.5 hours on level 50 water elementals testing damage, spells, rotations, skills from other classes, Darklight Gear, AF Gear, food and much more.

 

Sorry OP but you really have no clue, you are not taking into account the gear bonus's and such that lower all your times and what not....just stop trying to talk from your lvl 15 experience when a lvl 50 fully decked is telling you otherwise. Your basing your claims off of tooltips...

What piece of gear makes thunder proc every second instead of every three? 

Vivik-Cerberus

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

6/24/13 10:57:17 AM#55

 

I don't know which spell list you are basing this off but i noted the damage in the log and a free thunder 3 did roughly 700 + 300 damage. Free Fire 3 did between 700-800 with Astral 3 up. The damage tick was every 3 seconds for total of around 120 damage so 40 damage per second.

Why don't we just wait for the open beta and final adjustments before speculating on these beta numbers.

PS: Come to think of it the difference in numbers might come from Astral 3 affecting Thunder as well. not sure, i have not tested that.

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  jimmywolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/15/09
Posts: 55

6/24/13 11:03:32 AM#56
 as much as i enjoy reading the theory crafting an too those that take the time too prove what works, what don't. it is still beta, they can go ok that skill was too good, here a new set  or incoming nerf
  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

 
OP  6/24/13 11:10:10 AM#57
Originally posted by taus01

 

I don't know which spell list you are basing this off but i noted the damage in the log and a free thunder 3 did roughly 700 + 300 damage. Free Fire 3 did between 700-800 with Astral 3 up. The damage tick was every 3 seconds for total of around 120 damage so 40 damage per second.

Why don't we just wait for the open beta and final adjustments before speculating on these beta numbers.

PS: Come to think of it the difference in numbers might come from Astral 3 affecting Thunder as well. not sure, i have not tested that.

We are talking potency, not damage. I thought that was where the original disconnect was coming from, but then you started mathing with 18 ticks. Either way, it's 300 potency for a thunder III instant.

 

What's funny is that I'm probably going to grab this game and roll black mage just because of this one thread. It does look like, at least at end game, they want combat to be pretty interesting for the players. While it visually looks like there aren't an incredible amount of skills or anything, it looks like it's shaping up to be a pretty intensely demanding job to do well. And maybe I will call it quits for now and check it out in the next beta.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

6/24/13 11:14:43 AM#58
Originally posted by colddog04

What's funny is that I'm probably going to grab this game and roll black mage just because of this one thread. It does look like, at least at end game, they want combat to be pretty interesting for the players. While it visually looks like there aren't an incredible amount of skills or anything, it looks like it's shaping up to be a pretty intensely demanding job to do well. And maybe I will call it quits for now and check it out in the next beta.

I played some dungeons and i can tell you that playing BLM or THM is not boring or pressing a simple rotation. You will be the main sleeper for adds, always on alert for your free Nuke procs keeping dots and debuff up and to top it all you will most of the time be the one that uses the limit break since a lot of the bosses have adds and the BLM limit break is a very strong AoE that clears the field.

I enjoyed playing it and it gets very hectic and is not at all slow paced like FFXI is.

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  nbtscan

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 479

6/24/13 4:51:58 PM#59

I played a THM exclusively the first weekend up to about 23, and this is how things worked out for me around that level:

Thunder 2 > Thunder > Fire to apply Astral Buff > keep spamming Fire (or Fire 2 in the case of multiple mobs) until MP is gone > Transpose > reapply Thunder spells > spam Scathe until Umbral buff wears off > go back to spamming Fire

I chose to use Scathe in place of Blizzard because it requires an extra Fire spell to remove the Umbral buff and reapply Astral.  I wasn't paying close attention to how fast Transpose was refreshing, but my concern was making sure it was ready by the time I ran out of MP from spamming Fire again, and it seemed like the CD was resetting pretty close to the time where I had ran out of MP by spamming Fire again.

 

I messed around a bit with my level 50 character this weekend, but I'm still trying to find the optimal setup for having all the skills up to level 50.  Maybe with having Blizzard III that I could spam that instead of Scathe and wait for the CD on Transpose, but there is the matter of the Scathe passive and Blizzard III's casting time to consider, so I'm not sure what would be best.  Using the CD to make Flare an instant cast is a great way to use the rest of your MP before a Transpose though.  

I've been tooling around with something like this for high level:

Thunder 3 > Thunder 2 > Thunder > Fire III > Fire III spam (or Fire 2 for multiple mobs) > Instant Flare when CD available > Transpose > reapply Thunder > Blizzard III or Scathe depending on damage potential > Transpose or not depending on which of the spells before to cast > back to Fire spam

 

I could be totally off base on this though as I'm terrible at theorycrafting.

  WKMitchell

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/13
Posts: 70

6/24/13 5:01:12 PM#60
LOL glad to see you two worked it out, and damn you I plan to go WHM, but your are seriously making a DPS(which I normally find boring) look like a lot of fun.  =P
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