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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Don't you think the combat is very dull?

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89 posts found
  Hyanmen

Elite Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 5033

6/23/13 1:08:13 PM#61
Originally posted by AIMonster

Now granted I'm not level capped yet.  Maybe the combat improves, but from what I can tell so far I doubt it.  Combat starting off so slow and boring is bad design in my opinion, but hey some people might like that, but calling it strategic or tactical is just absurd.

Not everyone is a pro elite gamer like you. Not accounting for the fact is what's bad design.

That's not to say the class skills don't need some fleshing out even at max level. But to say that giving new players a fair start is "bad design"? A break, give me it.

FF:ARR FATE grinding: People not having fun by doing something not actually intended to get to a point that doesn't really matter as fast as possible. Just so they can do the same thing over and over again to gain a piece of virtual loot.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1568

6/23/13 1:09:38 PM#62
Originally posted by AIMonster

I'll also tell you my experience with two jobs in dungeons so far:

Conjurer (now 27) - Stand behind MOBs and at a decent range away, Spam Cure on Tank whenever health bar drops, use Medica if party is hit by AoE or another health bar drops aside from Tank, cast Protect every 30 minutes.  Use Ethers on boss fights to keep mana up.

Gladiator (now 25) - Run in and spam Flash for enmity, Fast Blade->Riot Blade mana back up till TP low -> Spam Flash again -> Repeat till dungeon cleared.  Watch MOB cast bar, and strafe to side if using conal attack or run out and Shield Lob if using PBAE telegraph.  Use Rampart to mitigate damage on bosses even though it was never needed.

Now granted I'm not level capped yet.  Maybe the combat improves, but from what I can tell so far I doubt it.  Combat starting off so slow and boring is bad design in my opinion, but hey some people might like that, but calling it strategic or tactical is just absurd.

Well you are a noob, and a sucesssful MMO does not punish noobs for not knowing how to play the game perfectly.

 

I'm sure whatever game you prefer starts out super challenging, this one doesn't.  It tries to teach people how to play before inttroducing more mechanics.  This is also how most MMORPG's and really RPG's in general have been designed since EQ1, the idea is to not overwhelm players.

 

Some games give you everything out of the gate, there isn't much progression and what you see at the start is pretty much the full extent of what you are going to get.  Most RPG's do not work like that, I'm sorry you think it is bad game design, a lot of more successful RPG developers disagree with you.

 

Maybe you should make your own title, or recommend a title for people like you who can't stomach FFXIV.

 

I can tell you one thing though, I've played MMO's with people like you for over a decade.  I don't want to play with people like you.  I don't think our personalities, what we look for in games, and how we define challenge or fun or proper social etiquette are compatible.  So I'm not trying to sell you on FFXIV.  For you, I think you are right. This game would not be fun, and you would likely make it less fun for people playing with you because you aren't having fun at it.

 

All I have learned from your posts is that whatever IMPACT GAMING community is, I want to stay far away from it.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

6/23/13 1:10:19 PM#63
Originally posted by AIMonster
 

Action combat has all the things you mentioned above. 

I never said it didn't. In fact, never even *mention* Action combat in my post. You're arguing against something I never said, and I'm not sure why.

I'm speaking specifically about ARR, its combat system and the ways in which it's applied, which, despite claims to the contrary does require strategy and thought throughout a fight - especially tougher ones - for the reasons I listed.

In a MMO with action combat there is positional attacks (look at Thieves in GW2 or Assassin in Blade and Soul), party coordination (combo fields in GW2), you have to deal with enemy actions and reactions (moreso usually than combat simulators).  You do not have to pay attention to combos in FFXIV as they trigger off rotation (so I can just hit Fast Blade ->  Check if Hits -> Riot Blade for example), on the other hand to use combo fields in GW2 you DO need to be paying attention since you can combo off other's fields.  Action MMOs have limited resource systems too for example Wildstar has both Mana and a special class mechanic resource and stamina for dodging as does GW2.  In the same token if you spam without thought in those games you'll likely run out of resources too.

Okay, great.  However, you're still arguing against something I never said.

Again, I never said action combat doesn't have those things. In fact, I know from personal experience (playing TERA up to 57) that all those things come into play. Each achieves the same overall idea, but in a different way.

Some prefer one. Some prefer the other. Some can enjoy both (such as myself).

This isn't about One Combat System vs. Another Combat System. I'm specifically talking about ARR's combat system, the nuances of it and the factors that people tend to overlook, ignore, or perhaps aren't aware of when they're discussing it.

The point is people saying FFXIV's combat is more tactical or strategic because it's slower and not "action combat" are wrong.  You have just as many tactical decisions to make in a more action combat based MMO like Wildstar, GW2, or B&S in fact I'd agrue with all these games moreso than FFXIV.

I wouldn't say it's more tactical than an action based game. Nor would I say that Action-based combat is inherently more strategic than Tab-based combat. Each applies the same principles, but in different ways.

I will and do say, however, that ARR's combat is more strategic and tactical than people want to give it credit for. And that's really the entire point of my post, which you responded to.

What  you're actually dealing with where others are concerned, is this tendency people have to believe "what they like is better than what you like", and frankly... that's all I see it as. It's petty, pointless competition over something that boils down to personal preference and nothing more.

At the end of the day, my philosophy is basically "Play what you enjoy, enjoy what you play, and respect others' right to do the same."

Arguing over "which combat system is better" is freaking stupid, IMHO.

 

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2021

6/23/13 1:12:19 PM#64
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by AIMonster

Did I say they are brainless?  No.  I said people need to stop calling slower combat more strategic/tactical.  THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.  MMORPG combat simulator combat is not strategic or tactical, period.  Tell me exactly the strategy or tactics involved beyond learning a rotation and maybe setting up raids/groups with the right set of classes in a typical traditional MMO combat system?  I enjoy MMORPGs, even some with "combat simulator" combat, and I've raided in top level guilds in various MMOs and occasionally end game PvP when available (like WoW arenas), but there is absolutely no critical thinking involved in playing them from a combat perspective.

Most of the strategy in MMOs comes before the combat, the preparation, AKA the meta.

On the other hand if I was playing an action game like a Fighting Game or Shooter there is far more thought put into my decisions in combat as in there is more tactical depth.  This games are faster paced, yet require more tactics and strategy and as I mentioned the speed of combat has nothing to do with tactics / strategy level of a game as turn based strategy games which are about as slow paced have agruably the most strategic and tactical depth of any game genre.

I play multiplayer Vicky 2, HOI 3, CK 2 and other grand strategy titles.  I also play the civilization series, Total War series, and some lesser (imo) twitch "strategy" games like Warcraft/Starcraft though I prefer grand strategy to RTS.  I find group MMORPG combat as found in FFXIV to involve more critical thinking than those genres.  Especially because while a grand game of a Paradox title might take months, I spend years in my favorite MMORPG's constantly fine tuning my play and defeating new encounters.  Not every encounter is as challenging as the last, and the quality depends on the designers.  I happen to like the encounter designers at Square Enix employed for this game, I think they are capable of making continuously challenging content for me.  If I find this is not the case a year or two down the road I will likely stop playing.

 

I teach for a living, I like to think I know what critical thought entails.  In case some are confused, here is wikipedia's current definition:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

 

I employ critical thought in my MMORPG gaming, I take the mechanics available and I adapt them to specific encounters in order to best serve my group.  I then communicate with the group of players I am playing with and together we engage in critical thought on how we can best defeat X.  There are no formulaic answers, most endgame content I have played in my MMO's of choice (XI, Vanguard, XIV, WoW to an extent etc.) we have beaten many encounters using strategies and tactics the developers themselves mentioned they did not envision when designing the content.  That requires critical thought.

 

So I think you are wrong.

Really?  You find MMORPG combat to require more critical thinking than a turn based strategy game?  I don't even know what to tell you at this point.  I guess since I've mastered (cleared the hardest content in game) most MMORPGs I've played I'm some sort of Sun Tzu or George S. Patton or something.  I should probably inform the military I'm a master strategist so they can employ me right away!

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1568

6/23/13 1:16:54 PM#65
Originally posted by AIMonster
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by AIMonster

Did I say they are brainless?  No.  I said people need to stop calling slower combat more strategic/tactical.  THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.  MMORPG combat simulator combat is not strategic or tactical, period.  Tell me exactly the strategy or tactics involved beyond learning a rotation and maybe setting up raids/groups with the right set of classes in a typical traditional MMO combat system?  I enjoy MMORPGs, even some with "combat simulator" combat, and I've raided in top level guilds in various MMOs and occasionally end game PvP when available (like WoW arenas), but there is absolutely no critical thinking involved in playing them from a combat perspective.

Most of the strategy in MMOs comes before the combat, the preparation, AKA the meta.

On the other hand if I was playing an action game like a Fighting Game or Shooter there is far more thought put into my decisions in combat as in there is more tactical depth.  This games are faster paced, yet require more tactics and strategy and as I mentioned the speed of combat has nothing to do with tactics / strategy level of a game as turn based strategy games which are about as slow paced have agruably the most strategic and tactical depth of any game genre.

I play multiplayer Vicky 2, HOI 3, CK 2 and other grand strategy titles.  I also play the civilization series, Total War series, and some lesser (imo) twitch "strategy" games like Warcraft/Starcraft though I prefer grand strategy to RTS.  I find group MMORPG combat as found in FFXIV to involve more critical thinking than those genres.  Especially because while a grand game of a Paradox title might take months, I spend years in my favorite MMORPG's constantly fine tuning my play and defeating new encounters.  Not every encounter is as challenging as the last, and the quality depends on the designers.  I happen to like the encounter designers at Square Enix employed for this game, I think they are capable of making continuously challenging content for me.  If I find this is not the case a year or two down the road I will likely stop playing.

 

I teach for a living, I like to think I know what critical thought entails.  In case some are confused, here is wikipedia's current definition:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

 

I employ critical thought in my MMORPG gaming, I take the mechanics available and I adapt them to specific encounters in order to best serve my group.  I then communicate with the group of players I am playing with and together we engage in critical thought on how we can best defeat X.  There are no formulaic answers, most endgame content I have played in my MMO's of choice (XI, Vanguard, XIV, WoW to an extent etc.) we have beaten many encounters using strategies and tactics the developers themselves mentioned they did not envision when designing the content.  That requires critical thought.

 

So I think you are wrong.

Really?  You find MMORPG combat to require more critical thinking than a turn based strategy game?  I don't even know what to tell you at this point.  I guess since I've mastered (cleared the hardest content in game) most MMORPGs I've played I'm some sort of Sun Tzu or George S. Patton or something.  I should probably inform the military I'm a master strategist so they can employ me right away!

 

Probably, do you play any of those games I listed?  You haven't even said what turn based strategy game you hold as the epitome of strategy and tact.

 

I'm a huge strategy buff, that and MMO's are the only games that can hold my interest anymore.  I'd say we should play together, but I'll be honest I really don't like you and I couldn't stand playing a game with you.  But I use the same moniker in a lot of games, so keep an eye out for me I guess.  Maybe you can crush me in a game we both play because as you say you are just smarter than me.

 

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2021

6/23/13 1:18:07 PM#66
Originally posted by Murugan

 

Maybe you should make your own title, or recommend a title for people like you who can't stomach FFXIV.

I've never once said I can't stomach FFXIV.  Actually I like the game, except the combat.  Everything else about the game is good to great.  There is more to FFXIV than just combat after all.

The only thing I'm taking issue with here is people saying slower combat means it's more tactical or strategic especially that FFXIV has more strategic/tactical depth than other MMORPGs, which is simply not the case at all.  In it's current state the combat is fairly bland, lacks depth found in other MMORPG combat systems (including other ones employing the traditional combat simulator style combat) at least from what I can tell currently.  Maybe I'm throwing my foot in my mouth here and it dramatically improves once you hit cap, but having played FFXIV 1.0 and knowing the abilities that were available there I seriously doubt it.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Carnicide

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 212

6/23/13 1:20:25 PM#67
What do you do to lower the GCD? Haste stat maybe?
  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2021

6/23/13 1:24:41 PM#68
Originally posted by Murugan

 

Probably, do you play any of those games I listed?  You haven't even said what turn based strategy game you hold as the epitome of strategy and tact.

 

I'm a huge strategy buff, that and MMO's are the only games that can hold my interest anymore.  I'd say we should play together, but I'll be honest I really don't like you and I couldn't stand playing a game with you.  But I use the same moniker in a lot of games, so keep an eye out for me I guess.  Maybe you can crush me in a game we both play because as you say you are just smarter than me.

 

You keep twisting my words around.  Where did I say I am smarter than you?  I don't know how intelligent you are, just that me and you clearly have a difference of opinion of what entails strategy and tactics.

As for what games I play (nice ad hominem) I do play Civ and used to play other strategy titles like Age of Empires, Total Annihilation, Starcraft/Warcraft, HOMM, most "Tactics" games such as X-COM, Jagged Alliance, Fire Emblem, FF Tactics, and Tactics Ogre.  X-COM (the original) remains one of my top 10 favorite games of all time.  Overall I'm not as big on strategy games as some others are.

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  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

6/23/13 1:26:03 PM#69
Originally posted by Murugan

I play multiplayer Vicky 2, HOI 3, CK 2 and other grand strategy titles.  I also play the civilization series, Total War series, and some lesser (imo) twitch "strategy" games like Warcraft/Starcraft though I prefer grand strategy to RTS.  I find group MMORPG combat as found in FFXIV to involve more critical thinking than those genres.  

This might be the funniest thing I have read so far. I mean, that was truly jaw dropping. I wonder how many people would agree with that.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

6/23/13 1:26:24 PM#70
Originally posted by AIMonster
Originally posted by Murugan

 

Maybe you should make your own title, or recommend a title for people like you who can't stomach FFXIV.

 

The only thing I'm taking issue with here is people saying slower combat means it's more tactical or strategic especially that FFXIV has more strategic/tactical depth than other MMORPGs, which is simply not the case at all.  In it's current state the combat is fairly bland, lacks depth found in other MMORPG combat systems (including other ones employing the traditional combat simulator style combat) at least from what I can tell currently.  Maybe I'm throwing my foot in my mouth here and it dramatically improves once you hit cap, but having played FFXIV 1.0 and knowing the abilities that were available there I seriously doubt it.

I've already addressed that and gave a variety of detailed examples, clarifications and explanations, based on personal hands-on experience with a variety of encounters in the game so far, of how strategy and tact is not only possible.. but actually necessary in a number of situations.

You provided no counter-arguments to anything I said. All you basically said was "Action Combat has all that, too".

Yet you're here repeating basically the same thing I'd responded to in the first place.

You're basically just stubbornly clinging to a mantra at this point. 

Not the most fertile ground for a discussion.

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2021

6/23/13 1:33:38 PM#71
Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by AIMonster
Originally posted by Murugan

 

Maybe you should make your own title, or recommend a title for people like you who can't stomach FFXIV.

 

The only thing I'm taking issue with here is people saying slower combat means it's more tactical or strategic especially that FFXIV has more strategic/tactical depth than other MMORPGs, which is simply not the case at all.  In it's current state the combat is fairly bland, lacks depth found in other MMORPG combat systems (including other ones employing the traditional combat simulator style combat) at least from what I can tell currently.  Maybe I'm throwing my foot in my mouth here and it dramatically improves once you hit cap, but having played FFXIV 1.0 and knowing the abilities that were available there I seriously doubt it.

I've already addressed that and gave a variety of detailed examples, clarifications and explanations, based on personal hands-on experience with a variety of situations in the game so far, of how strategy and tact is not only possible.. but actually necessary within the base combat system.

You're basically just stubbornly clinging to a mantra at this point. 

Not the most fertile ground for a discussion.

All the examples you gave exist in other MMORPGs from Action ones to old school combat simulators (like Everquest).  So again, how is FFXIV MORE strategic and have more tactical depth than these MMOs?  I'm not stubbornly clinging to my "mantra", there is no depth in FFXIV that doesn't exist in other MMORPG combat systems.  Even EQ had things like positional attacks and resource management (more so as it was very easy to run out of said resources).

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1568

6/23/13 1:36:22 PM#72
Originally posted by AIMonster
Originally posted by Murugan

 

Probably, do you play any of those games I listed?  You haven't even said what turn based strategy game you hold as the epitome of strategy and tact.

 

I'm a huge strategy buff, that and MMO's are the only games that can hold my interest anymore.  I'd say we should play together, but I'll be honest I really don't like you and I couldn't stand playing a game with you.  But I use the same moniker in a lot of games, so keep an eye out for me I guess.  Maybe you can crush me in a game we both play because as you say you are just smarter than me.

 

You keep twisting my words around.  Where did I say I am smarter than you?  I don't know how intelligent you are, just that me and you clearly have a difference of opinion of what entails strategy and tactics.

As for what games I play (nice ad hominem) I do play Civ and used to play other strategy titles like Age of Empires, Total Annihilation, Starcraft/Warcraft, HOMM, most "Tactics" games such as X-COM, Jagged Alliance, Fire Emblem, FF Tactics, and Tactics Ogre.  X-COM (the original) remains one of my top 10 favorite games of all time.  Overall I'm not as big on strategy games as some others are.

I played all those games, and most of them are very light on "strategy".  If you want strategy you need to play grand strategy titles, such as those from Paradox.  As for tactics I played X-COM what was tactical about it?  You have a tiny amount of classes and abilities compared to well FFXIV, there is not a lot of depth (just flanking, Line of Sight, overwatch etc. etc.).  I got bored with it, I only beat it because FFXIV was down and if it weren't I doubt I would have finished the game.

 

But that's cool you like the game, I don't.  You are right we disagree about the depth of tactics in that game, just like we do regarding FFXIV.

 

You mentioned in your previous post putting your foot in your mouth since you haven't played endgame or higher level combat.  You then say you played 1.0, but I guess you deleted your character otherwise you would have access to your high level max endgame character that beat Darnus, Ifrit Extreme, has relics, and beat all the primals.  I would think you would use your experiences with that character in this last weekend's test to demonstrate your analysis of depth of the current combat system.

 

Why didn't you? 

 

I played 1.0 up until the very last patch when I had to unfortunately take a break due to a work related crisis IRL.  I really regret not being able to do content like Darnus hard which very few people beat and was apparently a very tough and fun fight.  I did get to do Garuda though, and I really liked that encounter.  Now it is a single group encounter so I won't compare it to raids in previous MMO's I've played, but I would say it was very good for what it was.  The fight involved multiple phases, fast reactions, and coordinated movement/attacks of the group.  It is difficult to describe depth of "challenge" in a game in a message.  It was fun for me, it was challenging enough, and I look forward to more like it and a progression of increasingly difficult encounters from the people who managed to design that given how limiting the original engine was.

 

I really look forward to endgame in ARR, I have a free company with people I enjoy playing with and together I think we will have a lot of fun in the new primal fights, the new raid zones, and whatever other content they add.  I love grand strategy titles too, but once we get rolling FFXIV will probably consume all of my gaming time and that is enough to satisfy me.

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  Hyanmen

Elite Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 5033

6/23/13 1:40:34 PM#73
Originally posted by AIMonster

All the examples you gave exist in other MMORPGs from Action ones to old school combat simulators (like Everquest).  So again, how is FFXIV MORE strategic and have more tactical depth than these MMOs?  I'm not stubbornly clinging to my "mantra", there is no depth in FFXIV that doesn't exist in other MMORPG combat systems.  Even EQ had things like positional attacks and resource management (more so as it was very easy to run out of said resources).

You kept saying ARR is not tactical or strategic. Suddenly now it's "more strategic and tactical than other MMO's".
Other MMO's being as strategic does not make this game any less strategic.

It is too bad that your demands for more strategic game are not met. But don't go around saying the game is not strategic nor tactical when you yourself went back on your word.

FF:ARR FATE grinding: People not having fun by doing something not actually intended to get to a point that doesn't really matter as fast as possible. Just so they can do the same thing over and over again to gain a piece of virtual loot.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4281

6/23/13 1:41:55 PM#74
The director said it him self that the first 15 levels will be simple for new gamers to learn the mechanics and gameplay at a steady pace who are not use to mmos and that mmo veterans will prolly find it dull but the game will get more complex in tactics and speed as you get to mid levels and much more at high levels.
  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2021

6/23/13 1:42:15 PM#75
Originally posted by Murugan

 

You mentioned in your previous post putting your foot in your mouth since you haven't played endgame or higher level combat.  You then say you played 1.0, but I guess you deleted your character otherwise you would have access to your high level max endgame character that beat Darnus, Ifrit Extreme, has relics, and beat all the primals.  I would think you would use your experiences with that character in this last weekend's test to demonstrate your analysis of depth of the current combat system.

 

Why didn't you?

Because I played before all those things you mentioned were added to the game.  Endgame before that in FFXIV was grinding Raptors, leves, and crafting in Ul'dah.  Combat on Lancer mostly boiled down to mashing Feint (and another skill I don't remember the name of) and mass buffing a single attack with buffs from other jobs every once in a while for more damage.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1568

6/23/13 1:48:59 PM#76
Originally posted by AIMonster
Originally posted by Murugan

 

You mentioned in your previous post putting your foot in your mouth since you haven't played endgame or higher level combat.  You then say you played 1.0, but I guess you deleted your character otherwise you would have access to your high level max endgame character that beat Darnus, Ifrit Extreme, has relics, and beat all the primals.  I would think you would use your experiences with that character in this last weekend's test to demonstrate your analysis of depth of the current combat system.

 

Why didn't you?

Because I played before all those things you mentioned were added to the game.  Endgame before that in FFXIV was grinding Raptors, leves, and crafting in Ul'dah.  Combat on Lancer mostly boiled down to mashing Feint (and another skill I don't remember the name of) and mass buffing a single attack with buffs from other jobs every once in a while for more damage.

 

You are most likely thinking of Skull Sunder, I agree though it was a terrible combat/skill/progression system in the game originally.  That is why they did a complete rehaul on all of it.

 

I see, so when you say "I seriously doubt it will get any better based on my experiences in 1.0" you did not even play to see the development changes made by the new director/producer.

 

Well that makes sense.  It was a completely different game by the end, you can't compare combat in <1.17?  At least <1.21 when they added jobs, or whenever you quit to what the team did with the game.  That kinda matters because it is indicative of their design philosophy and capabilities.  Whereas what you played was leftover from the previous director and has very little to do with ARR or the current direction of the game (in fact since he was replaced I'd suggest your experiences are totally worthless since the whole point of ARR was to radically change the game).

 

Is it name calling to say you are simply ignorant of the actual state of endgame and design in FFXIV?  I just got back from my last ban after the f2p/p2p debates, but I think here it is not me being excessively negative towards you.  Despite you saying that you had a good idea what to expect based on your experiences with endgame in 1.0, you didn't really have any experiences with the endgame of that game as during the time you were playing it had been all scrapped while they were working on core systems (Tanaka had plans laid out, but most of it was shelved once he lost his position while the new team went about trying to "fix" the game).

 

Tanaka for example was a radical and rabid anti-endgame director (for XIV at least).  He envisioned a game where the story could all be completed by crafters and gatherers through the "parley" system, and all combat tied to the story would contain no challenge or actual combat for this reason.  He designed the fatigue/surplus system to punish people who played "too much" and level the playing field.  He was anti alliance content (his engine didn't even allow for large groups of players on the screen) and instead thought 15 person parties for everything was a good idea, and a leveling system that was based off of skill use rather than mob level/difficulty (so ideally groups should level by taking as much damage as possible, dealing as little damage as possible until everyone "capped" their SP etc. basically assbackwards from how you would typically play an RPG).  So different direction entirely when you played from when yoshida took over and (for most of us) fixed these philosophical "issues".

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  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1441

6/23/13 2:40:31 PM#77

I guess the part of the combat that irritates me at the low levels was that I pretty much have to tank every mob.  At least in EQ1 I could kite (fear or aggro) or root rot.  WoW destroyed kiting for the most part and forced everyone to stand stationary toe to toe with the mob...it wasn't fun in a solo situation.  I understand that there is more to the group combat game but I'm talking about solo combat.

 

I assume when you get to higher levels and have access to more powerful CC abilities things could get interesting.  With this game being primarily PvE focused there is no reason to skimp on CC abilities and powerful PvE skills (buff and combat skills alike).   As it stands the early level combat is dreadful.  I like to push the limits of soloing ability but when a game pretty much forces you to tank everything there isn't much you can do to push the limits.

 

I would also hope the later zones have a sense of danger as you walk around them, unlike most themeparks lately (TSW being the exception).  

 

There just seems to be too much hoping for a box purchase and a sub fee.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1568

6/23/13 2:46:29 PM#78
Originally posted by Mardukk

I guess the part of the combat that irritates me at the low levels was that I pretty much have to tank every mob.  At least in EQ1 I could kite (fear or aggro) or root rot.  WoW destroyed kiting for the most part and forced everyone to stand stationary toe to toe with the mob...it wasn't fun in a solo situation.  I understand that there is more to the group combat game but I'm talking about solo combat.

 

I assume when you get to higher levels and have access to more powerful CC abilities things could get interesting.  As it stands the early level combat is dreadful.  I like to push the limits of soloing ability but when a game pretty much forces you to tank everything there isn't much you can do to push the limits.

Why can't you kite as a THM/ARC/BRD/BLM or even as a LNC/DRG/GLA/PLD?

 

They all have ranged abilities which is all you need to kite, many have snares/roots/slows to make it easier as well.  Personally I think Archer/Bard needs some adjustments as currently for mobs with no decent ranged attacks they are very overpowered through kiting (though honestly it doesn't matter as long as more meaningful encounters take it into consideration).

 

Are you kiting in circles within the leash range?  I'd be glad to give you some tips on how to kite if you explain what you are struggling with.

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  MagikrorriM

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 172

6/23/13 6:09:27 PM#79

Can't say PvP has yet to be implemented, might be a whole different mechanic, it's definitely a whole new set of abilities for each class. Obtained only by PvPing. Just love critiques of unfinished works. The PvE side I am happy with, however housing still is not available yet, neither are the new classes. Hopefully open beta will shed some new light on alot of missing things.

Personally I think Yoshi-P is teasing us, giving us a little to chew on atta time, and saying ha ha wait til you see what I do next. It's the very kind of mindset that makes people come back for more.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

6/23/13 6:29:34 PM#80

Yea i started up a new character this weekend and levelled lancer to 33 and afew other classes with it for cross class abilities. I can certainly say its not as boring...The reason its not is because you have alot more abilities off the CGD and you will want to weave these abilities in.

these are the ones i used:
Blood surge for next attack crit and heal
legsweep for extra damage, or reserve it for interrupt.
raging strikes from archer level 4 obvious for 20% damage for 20 sec.
Bloodbath from warrior for healing on hit.
invigorate for TP regain.
second wind for crutch heal
and i think flurry for more parry in those oh shit moments.

you will also get full thrust which makes your damage alittle bit more noticeable, you will want to be shifting positions on mobs to make use of positional attacks, keep your dot up, etc.

Also at more of an endgame level i think your GCD could be reduced alot more because of better gear, mine was down to 2.42.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
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