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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Comments made by Smedley that point towards open world PVP in Everquest Next

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78 posts found
  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 636

6/21/13 2:32:57 AM#41
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs and a PVP MMOFPS that is now higher in player base than all of them. Why wouldn't they want a PVP MMORPG in their portfolio?

I don't want Darkfall Online/Mortal Online gameplay, those games are horrible.

Your opinion of the strength of the "PvE only crowd does not want it" argument is just that an opinion based on your preference for PvP.  The question you should be asking yourself  is what audience is SOE starting their marketing campaign with?

The answer is their loyalest fans at FanFaire  andaudience that will be almost entirely PvP players and Everquest die hards. I really think if they where launching a PvP MMORPG that they would have picked a different audience for their initial launch.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

6/21/13 2:36:30 AM#42
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs and a PVP MMOFPS that is now higher in player base than all of them. Why wouldn't they want a PVP MMORPG in their portfolio?

I don't want Darkfall Online/Mortal Online gameplay, those games are horrible.

I don't think there is anything stopping players from farming monsters all they want in EQN. I think the general way you have fun is what they want to change. 

 

Now, I've never played games like EVE/SWG, so I have no idea on this -- Call me a Sandbox newb, but is there even going to be PvE end-game? Like, a raid? This might sound newb, but it sounds like the combat is going to be pretty similar to what we're used to in MMOs -- And besides game knowledge, a lot of the time gear is the deciding factor.. So how are you going to get the best gear in the game? Same way as most MMOs? How do Sandbox games do the gear obtaining?

 

Also, SOE or Dave Georgeson or someone commented before that the current way MMORPG's are played is not sustainable. The "grind the raid, beg for expansion" has a game booming then dying. But part of me still wants the ability to raid.. I am fully confident in what EQN is going to do though. I've never completed the hardest raid of an MMORPG so im no raiding elitist, but some form of end-game PvE would be nice. And in all technicality, besides WoW, its true. You have to be willing to have content patches every month or two to keep up with end-game. Because ultimately, when you get to max level/max "skillcap" people want things to do when they "max" their character. i personally am doubtful of how ESO can release without any raids and keep its userbase.

  ice-vortex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

 
OP  6/21/13 2:58:23 AM#43
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs and a PVP MMOFPS that is now higher in player base than all of them. Why wouldn't they want a PVP MMORPG in their portfolio?

I don't want Darkfall Online/Mortal Online gameplay, those games are horrible.

I don't think there is anything stopping players from farming monsters all they want in EQN. I think the general way you have fun is what they want to change. 

 

Now, I've never played games like EVE/SWG, so I have no idea on this -- Call me a Sandbox newb, but is there even going to be PvE end-game? Like, a raid? This might sound newb, but it sounds like the combat is going to be pretty similar to what we're used to in MMOs -- And besides game knowledge, a lot of the time gear is the deciding factor.. So how are you going to get the best gear in the game? Same way as most MMOs? How do Sandbox games do the gear obtaining?

 

Also, SOE or Dave Georgeson or someone commented before that the current way MMORPG's are played is not sustainable. The "grind the raid, beg for expansion" has a game booming then dying. But part of me still wants the ability to raid.. I am fully confident in what EQN is going to do though. I've never completed the hardest raid of an MMORPG so im no raiding elitist, but some form of end-game PvE would be nice. And in all technicality, besides WoW, its true. You have to be willing to have content patches every month or two to keep up with end-game. Because ultimately, when you get to max level/max "skillcap" people want things to do when they "max" their character. i personally am doubtful of how ESO can release without any raids and keep its userbase.

Smedley said that high level content such as raids won't disappear entirely, but he also said that EQNext won't have the loot progression system which is the fundamental building blocks of what most people consider raiding. So I assume we will see something like it, but not in the same form that we are used to. No idea what that would be.

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1532

6/21/13 3:03:57 AM#44
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs

 exactly, the Pve-only type players have always been pandered, time for this to end, they have countless MMOs to choose from, so let´s not ruin EQnext too with the same PvE - PVP splitting paradigms.

I sincerely hope EQ Next won´t be a MMO for "EVERYONE" 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2482

World > Quest Progression

6/21/13 3:05:06 AM#45
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs and a PVP MMOFPS that is now higher in player base than all of them. Why wouldn't they want a PVP MMORPG in their portfolio?

I don't want Darkfall Online/Mortal Online gameplay, those games are horrible.

 

I have yet to see a person in favor of PvE state that PvP shouldn't even be in EQN but rather PvP be on another server.  That is a good argument.  In PvP the other players are the content and as such should get to choose if they want to be there.  A mob does not care if you kill them over and over as they try to attack NPC but the players are actual people, they do care if they are killed over and over trying to enjoy an MMO.  SoE with their years of experence over many titles knows this.

 

Everquest isn't just another one of their IPs.... It is THE IP of SoE.  I would be stunned by their utter stupidity if they aren't trying to steal the crown with EQN.  The market is saturated with linear themeparks that a lot of people are tired of.  This is the opportunity for them to bring something different, something new that will grip people and make up for '04.  For many people, more so than not, this doesn't include being killed over and over exploring the world.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

6/21/13 3:13:44 AM#46
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs and a PVP MMOFPS that is now higher in player base than all of them. Why wouldn't they want a PVP MMORPG in their portfolio?

I don't want Darkfall Online/Mortal Online gameplay, those games are horrible.

 

I have yet to see a person in favor of PvE state that PvP shouldn't even be in EQN but rather PvP be on another server.  That is a good argument.  In PvP the other players are the content and as such should get to choose if they want to be there.  A mob does not care if you kill them over and over as they try to attack NPC but the players are actual people, they do care if they are killed over and over trying to enjoy an MMO.  SoE with their years of experence over many titles knows this.

 

Everquest isn't just another one of their IPs.... It is THE IP of SoE.  I would be stunned by their utter stupidity if they aren't trying to steal the crown with EQN.  The market is saturated with linear themeparks that a lot of people are tired of.  This is the opportunity for them to bring something different, something new that will grip people and make up for '04.  For many people, more so than not, this doesn't include being killed over and over exploring the world.

Assuming Everquest Next is trying to change the mold of MMOs -- I dont even understand how a PvE and PvP server would be close to the same game. It sounds like EQN is blowing the minds of people who saw it. It sounds like EQN isnt going to be a hardcore raiding pve type game -- And I doubt they are willing to make the "Sandbox game" for PvP servers and "Your end-game PvE oriented game" for PvE servers. The easiest way to be unsuccessful is to try to please everybody.. Everquest 1 didnt try to please everybody. They are trying to CHANGE the culture, the way the genre is played much like they did with EQ1.

  kruler

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/06
Posts: 340

6/21/13 3:19:15 AM#47

My memory may be getting a bit dim, as this was the first few years of EQ1, but didn't they try to merge pve with pvp via the priests of discord, and red flagging, it failed big time, and they stuck with the pvp server.

However in theory what they did then was sound, just the market wasn't ready for it.

I may be wrong I am really drawing on old memories here.

 

There is no God, there is no Devil, nor Angels and Demons, there is only us, surely thats bad enough, for no creature is able to commit such acts of hate and love, sometimes in the same day.

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1532

6/21/13 3:49:23 AM#48
Originally posted by hMJem
The easiest way to be unsuccessful is to try to please everybody.. .

 so true my favourite Bill Cosby quote

  User Deleted
6/21/13 3:51:41 AM#49
If they announce unconsensual PvP in August, the backlash will be the biggest thing you have seen since Xbone.  I have no doubt that they will have PvP enabled areas, but full open-world PvP? Not likely, and if they do, they will soon do a 180.
  ice-vortex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

 
OP  6/21/13 5:03:06 AM#50
Originally posted by evilastro
If they announce unconsensual PvP in August, the backlash will be the biggest thing you have seen since Xbone.  I have no doubt that they will have PvP enabled areas, but full open-world PvP? Not likely, and if they do, they will soon do a 180.

Without the item progression of a typical themepark, this game isn't going to appeal to your typical PVE player so the rage will be kind of pointless.

  Bidwood

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

6/21/13 6:51:57 AM#51
Funny how whenever Smedley basically confirms the PVP, the PVE folks result to attack on his character. "He's just lying again !"

Wake up people... he is the boss and makes the decisions. And by the looks of it he isn't afraid to make decisions that piss off fans of the existing games.

Btw ice vortex I agree those games aren't perfect ... but I do wanna see a really dynamic action combat system. That pvp wouldn't be fun if I could only defend myself with my level. There has to be some element of twitch skill in landing the kill or escaping from an enemy. :)
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15694

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/21/13 6:58:35 AM#52
Originally posted by Zergy
Wonder if it'll be like in SWG, stay neutral if you don't want to pvp, or join a faction and then either be covert or overt, was a great system imo.

^^^ My speculation rests here, could be wishful thinking, could be wrong, won't be disappointed if it's not the case, I just hope it is. Haven't seen a more rational way to handle PVP in an MMO. Also the big plus is no need for different server rules etc..

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17387

6/21/13 7:09:37 AM#53
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs and a PVP MMOFPS that is now higher in player base than all of them. Why wouldn't they want a PVP MMORPG in their portfolio?

I don't want Darkfall Online/Mortal Online gameplay, those games are horrible.

But saying that this game will have open pvp is not a good argument for those who "think" that means "FFA PvP". Which is what I've gottem from several players on this forum.

As I've said, Tera has open pvp on the pve servers. If players align themselves with guilds that do it.

The argument that pve players won't want to do it is very valid because they make up a large amount of the EQ fanbase and given the amount of money that seems to be spent on this game (assuing a AAA game costs a lot of money AND they have restarted it several times AND  they are going for something different, including buying a company that specializes in these "story bricks", I can't imagine from a business standpoint that they are going to turn away over 50% of their customer base.

This will be a different game but those players who think that "ahhhh finally a AAA sandbox ffa pvp game with "forced pvp are going to be highly dissapointed.

and they have no one to blame but themselves. But we'll see in a month and change.

  superscott99

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 13

6/21/13 7:13:34 AM#54
You're not going to be able to gank newbs in this game.  The suits are not dumb enough to let that happen. Those days in a mass-market AAA are gone.
  Nadia

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11568

6/21/13 7:33:01 AM#55
I'm expecting PVE and PVP servers -- but i dont know
  ice-vortex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

 
OP  6/21/13 7:56:07 AM#56
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs and a PVP MMOFPS that is now higher in player base than all of them. Why wouldn't they want a PVP MMORPG in their portfolio?

I don't want Darkfall Online/Mortal Online gameplay, those games are horrible.

But saying that this game will have open pvp is not a good argument for those who "think" that means "FFA PvP". Which is what I've gottem from several players on this forum.

As I've said, Tera has open pvp on the pve servers. If players align themselves with guilds that do it.

The argument that pve players won't want to do it is very valid because they make up a large amount of the EQ fanbase and given the amount of money that seems to be spent on this game (assuing a AAA game costs a lot of money AND they have restarted it several times AND  they are going for something different, including buying a company that specializes in these "story bricks", I can't imagine from a business standpoint that they are going to turn away over 50% of their customer base.

This will be a different game but those players who think that "ahhhh finally a AAA sandbox ffa pvp game with "forced pvp are going to be highly dissapointed.

and they have no one to blame but themselves. But we'll see in a month and change.

Well I never said open PVP means FFA PVP. I think it could be any kind of open PVP which includes faction based, FFA, or a mix of the two. It could also mean anything from full loot to no loot. However, everything that Smedley has said has pointed towards an actual open PVP. The PVP side of the argument is actually going by what Smedley has said while people who think it will be PVE are only going on hopes and dreams.

They never bought Storybricks btw, they are only licensing it and the developer to help with the development of EQNext.

If you think a PVP MMORPG sandbox will have a small customer base, try a PVE MMORPG sandbox game.

The sheer fact that players can destroy almost all of Norrath and build within Norrath sends the message quite clear that it has to be fundamentally built around PVP. You can't let players destroy stuff other players have built and not have PVP.

  User Deleted
6/21/13 8:10:50 AM#57
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs

 exactly, the Pve-only type players have always been pandered, time for this to end, they have countless MMOs to choose from, so let´s not ruin EQnext too with the same PvE - PVP splitting paradigms.

I sincerely hope EQ Next won´t be a MMO for "EVERYONE" 

 

It really doesn't come down to splitting PvE/PvP or how many PVE games a company has.   The most basic formula here is 10's of Millions in Sony share holders dollars... those investors expecting a return and what you can sell to them.   That is what dictates what EQN will be...

 

My first MMO and my favorite MMO of all time is Ultima Online (before trammel).   So you can see the type of game I like... Crafting, ability to actually sell the things I make, full loot (even mobs looted you if you died) and open world pvp.. well outside of guard zones.. 

 

So my personal preference has never mixed well with the standard raid gear progression game because crafting in those games pretty much sucks...   Since the raid treadmill is where its at.

 

I may be a strange mix because I like to explore, craft and pvp.

 

That said my view of market reality is that EQN is not going to be an EQ version of UO with open world pvp.   The conflict needed to drive an economy can come in many forms... and people seem to skim over the email quote where the sender specificly mentions:  World PvP with meaning is the only way (on PvP Servers).

 

Then again Smedley also once tweeted that SOE liked the idea of Perma Death for EQN... (that was an amusing few days).

 

Until the reveal we just have to wait and see.. I just don't feel overly hopeful that PvE/PvP won't be split in some way.  (separate servers, the swg systems others have mentioned or conflict zones).

 

This is all just my opinion.. and I guess we'll find out soon(tm)

  ice-vortex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

 
OP  6/21/13 8:33:07 AM#58
Originally posted by Antarious
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs

 exactly, the Pve-only type players have always been pandered, time for this to end, they have countless MMOs to choose from, so let´s not ruin EQnext too with the same PvE - PVP splitting paradigms.

I sincerely hope EQ Next won´t be a MMO for "EVERYONE" 

 

It really doesn't come down to splitting PvE/PvP or how many PVE games a company has.   The most basic formula here is 10's of Millions in Sony share holders dollars... those investors expecting a return and what you can sell to them.   That is what dictates what EQN will be...

Shareholders never actively dictate to the company they own. Let alone to a subsidiary of a company they own. That is why they hire CEOs, so they don't have to. Anytime shareholders want to change the direction of a company they have to vote on it as stock is split up among numerous individuals, but it usually comes in the form of changing the board who would then in turn place a CEO. A company like SOE would be autonomous in most matters.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17387

6/21/13 8:35:19 AM#59
Originally posted by ice-vortex
 

Well I never said open PVP means FFA PVP. I think it could be any kind of open PVP which includes faction based, FFA, or a mix of the two. It could also mean anything from full loot to no loot. However, everything that Smedley has said has pointed towards an actual open PVP. The PVP side of the argument is actually going by what Smedley has said while people who think it will be PVE are only going on hopes and dreams.

They never bought Storybricks btw, they are only licensing it and the developer to help with the development of EQNext.

If you think a PVP MMORPG sandbox will have a small customer base, try a PVE MMORPG sandbox game.

The sheer fact that players can destroy almost all of Norrath and build within Norrath sends the message quite clear that it has to bve fundamentally built around PVP. You can't let players destroy stuff other players have built and not have PVP.

I'm not saying "you" are.

I'm simply stating that they know their fanbase, they have pvp and pve players and will try to cater to them. That for those who think that this is a FFA pvp sandbox (as some seem to think) , they have "another think" coming.

I never said that pve mmo sandbox will be any larger than a pvp sandbox. I am saying that they will cater to both players "in some way".

 

The sheer fact that players can destroy almost all of Norrath and build within Norrath sends the message quite clear that it has to bve fundamentally built around PVP. You can't let players destroy stuff other players have built and not have PVP.

no it doesn't. And you prove my point when I say that players will take a bit of information and spin it around their preference. I can easily imagine a pve only game where one could destroy the world and battle "pve" monsters. I can also imagine that the "optional" pvp could manifest itself, again, similiar to EVE, where certain parts of the world can have player made structures destroyed and certain parts "not". I can also imagine a system where all castles are attackable by players so that if players don't want to be part of pvp they don't attack or build castles.

  User Deleted
6/21/13 8:44:04 AM#60
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Originally posted by Antarious
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by ice-vortex

The only argument against having a PVP pillar in EQNext is that the PVE-only crowd doesn't want it. That's not a very good argument, and probably wouldn't be from the point of view of SOE. They already have four or five popular PVE MMORPGs

 exactly, the Pve-only type players have always been pandered, time for this to end, they have countless MMOs to choose from, so let´s not ruin EQnext too with the same PvE - PVP splitting paradigms.

I sincerely hope EQ Next won´t be a MMO for "EVERYONE" 

 

It really doesn't come down to splitting PvE/PvP or how many PVE games a company has.   The most basic formula here is 10's of Millions in Sony share holders dollars... those investors expecting a return and what you can sell to them.   That is what dictates what EQN will be...

Shareholders never actively dictate to the company they own. Let alone to a subsidiary of a company they own. That is why they hire CEOs, so they don't have to. Anytime shareholders want to change the direction of a company they have to vote on it as stock is split up among numerous individuals, but it usually comes in the form of changing the board who would then in turn place a CEO. A company like SOE would be autonomous in most matters.

You really.. simply missed the point all together.   No publicly traded company goes out of their way to lose their investors money.   Which directly dictates everything the company does...   It had nothing to do with saying that any particular share holder is telling someone what to do.  

 

In other words they are going to try to create things (MMO or not) that actually make a good return... because that makes their share holders happy.  

 

Tho if you really wanna press the point... Yesterday the largest private share holder in Sony did in fact dictate to them ...

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