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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Interview with Yoshida on P2P decision

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172 posts found
  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

6/20/13 1:05:49 PM#121
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Dzone

Just think how much content will end up getting if the dev's do have a steady income. That is endless hours of stuff to do ingame. Plus if you really get into it and do nothing else, look how much money you would save on gas, going to clubs, alot of stuff irl cost alot more than 15$ a month. With sub base mmo isn't really that expensive of a hobby.

 

Now ingame since everyone is paying equally, that means everyone has 100% access to the game. Everyone will be on the same page as everyone else. Lets say you play a game like lotro and your group wants to go to a higher level map, but wait your ftp, you havta suck it up and tell them that you dont have access to that map and can't go. That's just one example of how the ftp modul limit's peaple from paying ones.

 

There could be restrictions ingame though, like say you need to do part 1 of a quest, to beable to continue onto part 2, or maybe need to get an item to access an area. That could be posible, but at least all of that is achieved ingame. There will be no cash shop in ffxiv arr, everything you get will be earned ingame. No cash shop to break immersion in this game.

 

That is why ffxi was for suceesfull for so long, because over the years SE added so much content to do that you always had something to do. Everyone was completly immersed in that game, because there was no real life distraction, aka cash shops.

 

That's why i can see myself playing ffxiv arr for a very long time to come, because over time with the steady money for them, all that content will continue and no cash shop distration, is a huge plus for me.

 

Purely based on assumption.  I've heard the P2P equates to more rich content and say BS on.  Content will be based on the company itself and not it's payment model.  ANet regulary provides good content while numerous P2P MMOs provide pretty stagnant content or how it took so long for so little.  WoW's Crusader Pavilion for one.  I have yet to see an MMO company that justifies a continuous sub based on content.

But anyways everyone should have known that the P2P model was a given, I mean they charged you based on how many characters you have (3 bucks a month addition for each char past the 1st).

LOTRO is a horrid comparison.  While I never played LOTRO seriously but I have played DDO extensively and rarely if ever do I ever come across someone who joins and doesn't have access to the area (the LFM is very good in regards that it will highlight which groups content you can't play).

Are you talking about LFM in LOTRO?  I didn't know it had a duty finder, FFXIV won't be F2P so it having a duty finder is irrelevant.

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http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

6/20/13 1:12:36 PM#122
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04

Entitlement. This isn't your game.

Sure it is, it is a game I play and I pay for.  You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

What are you even talking about? I'm subbed to two games right now.

 

I like that you're doubling down on your entitlement though. I'm sorry to be the one to have to let you know, but no matter how much you pay sqeenix, you will never have control over which direction they decide to take the game. This is also not your forum and you do not own this thread and do not have rights on the discussion. If someone says something that you don't like about your precious, it is usually frowned upon to personally attack them. However, in the case that you can't help yourself, be aware that people can recognize when you are getting extremely emotional. For instance, without actually knowing what I play, how could you form an opinion about whether or not it was garbage? 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 542

6/20/13 1:19:02 PM#123
Originally posted by SnarkRitter
Originally posted by danwest58

Sorry but no FFXIV is different in many aspects than other MMOs.  First its not a Single Player Online game like many MMOs are right now.  Yes you can solo to 50 however its the most inefficient way of leveling grouping being the more efficient way.  Second SE did not take investors money to rebuild FFXIV nor did the game stay F2P the first time around.  The game SHUT DOWN and SE rebuild the game from the ground up using its own money so they have NO ONE to pay back besides themselves.  Sorry but SE has already said 300K to 1 Million users is all it needs, if they make the money back on the game in a year they are good with that, they will never be forced to pay someone else back so their hand gets forced to go F2P.  O yea and SE is not trying to be the next WoW its trying to replace FFXI with just a newer up to date FF game.  

You want to do a little Math here.  I am willing to bet the game revamp cost about 64 Million most likely less.

at 300K subs at 12.99 a month you get 3,897,000 per month

If you divide 64 Million by 3,897,000 is 16.422 so thats 17 months and the game is paid off.  Now It is likely the game rebuild cost much less, and there will be more than 300K players.  The game has 700K beta apps and growing each day.  If they hold 500K to 700K players consistently at the lower per month rate that is still a lot of money per month.  Not having to pay off stakeholders or investors will keep them from going F2P.  

Your optimism put a smile on my face, a sarcastic smile, unfortunately. 

You think that leveling through grouping is a great way to bolster the community feeling thereby keeping people subscribed? Believe it or not, that's actually not that great of a way to keep subscribers,have your ever looked at FF XI subscriber chart? Did you see a nose dive when WoW got released almost never got back up to it's peak again? Believe it or not, people like to solo and prefer solo leveling over group leveling (case example: GW2,  group leveling is far more efficient than solo leveling, not to mention that the whole game is tailored for group play, yet people still prefer to solo) for multiple reasons. And frankly the vast majority of people will quit if they don't find the game fun or the subscription fee isn't worth it, else you wouldn't see guilds disbanding in MMORPGs because their members all quit the game .I know, because i've been to multiple guilds in different games, we were all great friends to each other, but when we don't find the game fun anymore we just quit this game and move to other game.

In FF XIV if solo leveling is inefficient it will feel too much of a grind and many will just leave because, well, they can't be **** to form a group. This problem will become far worse 6 months after launch (or re-launch, if you want to call it), when most people will be at max level and there'll be far fewer leveling players, and it will only get worse.

The part about subscribers number only show how naive and inexperience about MMORPGs you are. First you naively assumed that they'll retain 500k-700k numbers. MMORPGs are extremely lucky if they retain 50% of their subscribers after 3 months, and they're also extremely lucky if half the people who applied for beta tests actually buy the game at launch. IIRC, Blizzard said that 1 out of 20 people who try WoW trial buy the game EVE the only growing major P2P MMORPG, that number is 1 out of 25. So realistically, I believe we're looking at 200k active subscribers for FF XIV, probably less after a year.

And finally, you also didn't factor in ongoing development and maintainance cost.

I am done talking to people like you because you just want to sit here and force your will onto other people in a forum.  Guess what you have your opinion I have mine.  This game is and will be one of the better MMOs in the past 7 years.  Yeas BECAUSE the game is Group Friendly VS SOLO 100% of the time.  Why do you think SWTOR, RIFT, TERA, and countless other games failed.  BECAUSE they were nothing but gloried Single Player Games.  This Game will last now I am done talking to someone who just wants to ramble on negatively just to ramble negatively.  

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

6/20/13 1:20:21 PM#124
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04

Entitlement. This isn't your game.

Sure it is, it is a game I play and I pay for.  You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

What are you even talking about? I'm subbed to two games right now.

 

I like that you're doubling down on your entitlement though. I'm sorry to be the one to have to let you know, but no matter how much you pay sqeenix, you will never have control over which direction they decide to take the game. This is also not your forum and you do not own this thread and do not have rights on the discussion. If someone says something that you don't like about your precious, it is usually frowned upon to personally attack them. However, in the case that you can't help yourself, be aware that people can recognize when you are getting extremely emotional. For instance, without actually knowing what I play, how could you form an opinion about whether or not it was garbage? 

I don't care what you do, you came here trolling the game about how it wasn't worth a sub and blah blah blah f2p is great.  If you think you are being misrepresented that is your problem.  You never said "I pay 2 subs" or "I support the P2P model" you just posted in defense of f2p and I responded to you.

 

As for my entitlement you are right, this is what I will do if the game goes f2p.  I will quit, and I won't play another title from SE until they win back my trust that they aren't going to pull another bait and switch on me again.  I already said this though, so you saying I'm "entitled" is really just water off of my back.  I'm not entitled at all, I actually believe people should charge what they want for their work, and don't think I deserve anything because of my "entitlement".

 

So how am I entitled?  Because I would be upset if it turns out that Yoshida and Square Enix were downright lying to me to get my money while planning to go F2P like Trion did with Rift (they knew it was going to go F2P and still sold an expansion to their subscribing players and encouraged others to come back)?  Unless the entitlement you are referring to is not wishing to be lied to and purposefully misled for profit.  But luckily my bank doesn't agree that this is "baseless entitltement" and will allow me to pursue a charge back if SE ever tries something like that without first refunding my subscription.  Fraud is Fraud.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 542

6/20/13 1:25:28 PM#125

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

  Asm0deus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 800

6/20/13 1:32:23 PM#126

I have played many f2p games and have enjoyed b2p but I would very much like for once to play a p2p game with NO CASH SHOP.

 

I have seen too many f2p game with cash shop really gouge their clients recently and offer too  many p2w items. Will be nice to try a game with none of that poop.

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  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

6/20/13 1:35:46 PM#127
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

 

- I have no respect for f2p players or MMO's

- Being a free rider, and taking advantage of "whales" is pretty despicable if you ask me.  I don't see your value as a "customer".

- But it really does sound like you are just a freeloader who doesn't want to pay for his video game if he can get a similar knock off experience elsewhere. 

- It does make him a freeloader, and it does make him cheap. 

- So you deserve to work for whatever the most desperate person on the planet in your industry would be willing to work for and not a penny more.

- Other people are paying for you, and yes that is despicable.  You are a freeloader

- I think people who advocate for F2P are either freeloaders are cheaters, I'm not going to retreat from that until someone can argue otherwise

- That just doesn't stop you F2P people from coming to my games and trying to ruin them because you people can't respect others.

- You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

 

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1832

6/20/13 1:38:28 PM#128

I know it might suck for people who realy want to play a game but cannot afford the sub.
I know... i lost my job and had great depths back in 2009, i have 3 kids and both me and my wife played WoW so it was a double sub.

We needed to quit and recover and every penny counted, it sucked !
I sticked to single player games and my wife to reading books.

Its a choice you have to make if your low on cash and need to set priority's straight.
its a totaly diffrent matter when you go out and spend cash on the weekend on drugs / beer / hookers / or whatever you do in your free time and say good studio's need to make their games free to play.

Its for a reason SE choose this payment model, and people inhere already gave many reasons why.

If you cant afford a monthly sub there are other games, free to play.
Final Fantasy ARR will just not be one of them.

I am glad they hold true to their promise, pay to play games can be much better and have much stronger community's then other payment models.

I dont understand why this issue has to pop up in every mmo, we cannot change it anyway :P
Its just troll / hate bait, respect the studio's decision if they made it clear, or move on.

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

6/20/13 1:40:52 PM#129
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

 

- I have no respect for f2p players or MMO's

- Being a free rider, and taking advantage of "whales" is pretty despicable if you ask me.  I don't see your value as a "customer".

- But it really does sound like you are just a freeloader who doesn't want to pay for his video game if he can get a similar knock off experience elsewhere. 

- It does make him a freeloader, and it does make him cheap. 

- So you deserve to work for whatever the most desperate person on the planet in your industry would be willing to work for and not a penny more.

- Other people are paying for you, and yes that is despicable.  You are a freeloader

- I think people who advocate for F2P are either freeloaders are cheaters, I'm not going to retreat from that until someone can argue otherwise

- That just doesn't stop you F2P people from coming to my games and trying to ruin them because you people can't respect others.

- You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

 

 

What did freeloaders do to deserve my respect? (those are all quotes from me, you could have just singled me out by name)

 

Did they make an MMORPG I enjoy?

Did they even help pay for the MMORPG I enjoy?

Are they special unique little butterflies that I should pay for just to have the privilege of their company in game?

 

No they are free riders who ride the contributions of others, benefiting while contributing nothing.  They are a scourge.  I refuse to "respect" that.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 542

6/20/13 1:41:52 PM#130
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

  

So you dont like the game ok good for you.  You posted your opinion why do you need to keep going on with your negative point of view?  That is disrespectful. 

  SnarkRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/10
Posts: 337

6/20/13 1:42:16 PM#131
Originally posted by danwest58

I am done talking to people like you because you just want to sit here and force your will onto other people in a forum.  Guess what you have your opinion I have mine.  This game is and will be one of the better MMOs in the past 7 years.  Yeas BECAUSE the game is Group Friendly VS SOLO 100% of the time.  Why do you think SWTOR, RIFT, TERA, and countless other games failed.  BECAUSE they were nothing but gloried Single Player Games.  This Game will last now I am done talking to someone who just wants to ramble on negatively just to ramble negatively.  

Those games failed because it wasn't different enough from traditional MMORPGs. Look at those older MMORPGs that used forced grouping, you'll see that their subscribers base all took a deep nose dive when WoW, a solo friendly MMORPG got released, and their subs base never recovered. Now look at GW2, it's also very solo friendly, but it is a massive success. Why? Because it was different enough from traditional MMORPGs.

I've presented my proofs, while yours don't seem to be very convincing. But you can keep deluding yourself.

Oh, and if you and the likes of Murugan, Inigo Montoya are the faces of FF XIV community, I don't think I want to be a part of it, even if the game ever goes F2P.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

6/20/13 1:46:17 PM#132
Originally posted by SnarkRitter
Originally posted by danwest58

I am done talking to people like you because you just want to sit here and force your will onto other people in a forum.  Guess what you have your opinion I have mine.  This game is and will be one of the better MMOs in the past 7 years.  Yeas BECAUSE the game is Group Friendly VS SOLO 100% of the time.  Why do you think SWTOR, RIFT, TERA, and countless other games failed.  BECAUSE they were nothing but gloried Single Player Games.  This Game will last now I am done talking to someone who just wants to ramble on negatively just to ramble negatively.  

Those games failed because it wasn't different enough from traditional MMORPGs. Look at those older MMORPGs that used forced grouping, you'll see that the subscribers base all took a deep nose dive when WoW, a solo friendly MMORPG got released. Now look at GW2, it's also very solo friendly, but it is a massive success. Why? Because it was different enough from traditional MMORPGs.

I've presented my proofs, while yours don't seem to be very convincing. But you can keep deluding yourself.

 

What of the proof that those games DIDN'T offer the traditional MMORPG experience.

 

TERA, SWTOR did not have a very good endgame and never added any.  People had no reason to continue subscribing after they finished leveling their chosen class.

 

Rift stayed p2p for years, it has a greedy studio behind it that doesnt' care about its subscribers,what can I say about that.

 

Keep deluding yourself that the failure of SWTOR is proof of a universal demand for Mortal Online style sandboxes (or whatever "unique" featureset you are shilling for) and nothing to do with the game's myriad problems.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

6/20/13 1:47:04 PM#133
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

 

- I have no respect for f2p players or MMO's

- Being a free rider, and taking advantage of "whales" is pretty despicable if you ask me.  I don't see your value as a "customer".

- But it really does sound like you are just a freeloader who doesn't want to pay for his video game if he can get a similar knock off experience elsewhere. 

- It does make him a freeloader, and it does make him cheap. 

- So you deserve to work for whatever the most desperate person on the planet in your industry would be willing to work for and not a penny more.

- Other people are paying for you, and yes that is despicable.  You are a freeloader

- I think people who advocate for F2P are either freeloaders are cheaters, I'm not going to retreat from that until someone can argue otherwise

- That just doesn't stop you F2P people from coming to my games and trying to ruin them because you people can't respect others.

- You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

What did freeloaders do to deserve my respect?

 

Did they make an MMORPG I enjoy?

Did they even help pay for the MMORPG I enjoy?

Are they special unique little butterflies that I should pay for just to have the privilege of their company in game?

 

No they are free riders who ride the contributions of others, benefiting while contributing nothing.  They are a scourge.  I refuse to "respect" that.

And there you go danwest. That is how he responded when it was pointed out that he was being disrespectful to others. This is a thread about sqeenix's decision to stay P2P. Discussing other payment models and comparing the rest of the market against this game at this point in time is completely relevant and of course there are going to be people here with varying opinions. But how do you deal with someone that is literally telling everyone that doesn't agree with his personal mindset on payment models that they are a scourge? You don't really. You just point it out so everyone can see.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

6/20/13 1:50:43 PM#134
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

 

- I have no respect for f2p players or MMO's

- Being a free rider, and taking advantage of "whales" is pretty despicable if you ask me.  I don't see your value as a "customer".

- But it really does sound like you are just a freeloader who doesn't want to pay for his video game if he can get a similar knock off experience elsewhere. 

- It does make him a freeloader, and it does make him cheap. 

- So you deserve to work for whatever the most desperate person on the planet in your industry would be willing to work for and not a penny more.

- Other people are paying for you, and yes that is despicable.  You are a freeloader

- I think people who advocate for F2P are either freeloaders are cheaters, I'm not going to retreat from that until someone can argue otherwise

- That just doesn't stop you F2P people from coming to my games and trying to ruin them because you people can't respect others.

- You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

What did freeloaders do to deserve my respect?

 

Did they make an MMORPG I enjoy?

Did they even help pay for the MMORPG I enjoy?

Are they special unique little butterflies that I should pay for just to have the privilege of their company in game?

 

No they are free riders who ride the contributions of others, benefiting while contributing nothing.  They are a scourge.  I refuse to "respect" that.

And there you go danwest. That is how he responded when it was pointed out that he was being disrespectful to others. This is a thread about sqeenix's decision to stay P2P. Discussing other payment models and comparing the rest of the market against this game at this point in time is completely relevant and of course there are going to be people here with varying opinions. But how do you deal with someone that is literally telling everyone that doesn't agree with his personal mindset on payment models that they are a scourge? You don't really. You just point it out so everyone can see.

I thought I laid out my reasoning for why I consider them to be a scourge succinctly.   It isn't a matter of opinion whether freelaoders contribute money to a game's development or not.  It isn't a matter of opinion whether people who actually make video games are entitled to respect more than people who play them for free.  I guess the second is just my opinion, but whatever I stand by it and you can hate me for it. 

Look up the definition of free rider or freeloader, then go argue with Merriam-Webster about how mean they are.

 

Not all people who play F2P games are freeloaders, many of them are cheaters too.  The cheaters pay for the free loaders, and then the people who were playing the game prior to that as subscribers who continue to subscribe are just normal people who subsidize cheaters and freeloaders.

 

It can understand someone playing a F2P game, I've played them.  But it is not an act deserving of respect imo, and it hurts teh entire industry and is just a downright shame.  I won't hold a grudge against someone for playing a f2p game, but I will say that they were hurting the industry and the hobby I enjoy by doing so.  I'm all about forgiveness though once people realize their follies.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 542

6/20/13 1:50:56 PM#135
Originally posted by SnarkRitter
Originally posted by danwest58

I am done talking to people like you because you just want to sit here and force your will onto other people in a forum.  Guess what you have your opinion I have mine.  This game is and will be one of the better MMOs in the past 7 years.  Yeas BECAUSE the game is Group Friendly VS SOLO 100% of the time.  Why do you think SWTOR, RIFT, TERA, and countless other games failed.  BECAUSE they were nothing but gloried Single Player Games.  This Game will last now I am done talking to someone who just wants to ramble on negatively just to ramble negatively.  

Those games failed because it wasn't different enough from traditional MMORPGs. Look at those older MMORPGs that used forced grouping, you'll see that their subscribers base all took a deep nose dive when WoW, a solo friendly MMORPG got released, and their subs base never recovered. Now look at GW2, it's also very solo friendly, but it is a massive success. Why? Because it was different enough from traditional MMORPGs.

I've presented my proofs, while yours don't seem to be very convincing. But you can keep deluding yourself.

Oh, and if you and the likes of Murugan, Inigo Montoya are the faces of FF XIV community, I don't think I want to be a part of it, even if the game ever goes F2P.

FYI GW2 is not a massive success.  I know I have had many friends go play the game, within a month quit because its nothing but D3 in an MMO setting.  Hate to say it but you are wrong.  You posted your opinion now go else where.  You dont see me trolling the WildSTar forums with my negativity about WildStar and how much I think it will flop do you?  No I have respect for them.  

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

6/20/13 2:02:24 PM#136
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

 

- I have no respect for f2p players or MMO's

- Being a free rider, and taking advantage of "whales" is pretty despicable if you ask me.  I don't see your value as a "customer".

- But it really does sound like you are just a freeloader who doesn't want to pay for his video game if he can get a similar knock off experience elsewhere. 

- It does make him a freeloader, and it does make him cheap. 

- So you deserve to work for whatever the most desperate person on the planet in your industry would be willing to work for and not a penny more.

- Other people are paying for you, and yes that is despicable.  You are a freeloader

- I think people who advocate for F2P are either freeloaders are cheaters, I'm not going to retreat from that until someone can argue otherwise

- That just doesn't stop you F2P people from coming to my games and trying to ruin them because you people can't respect others.

- You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

What did freeloaders do to deserve my respect?

 

Did they make an MMORPG I enjoy?

Did they even help pay for the MMORPG I enjoy?

Are they special unique little butterflies that I should pay for just to have the privilege of their company in game?

 

No they are free riders who ride the contributions of others, benefiting while contributing nothing.  They are a scourge.  I refuse to "respect" that.

And there you go danwest. That is how he responded when it was pointed out that he was being disrespectful to others. This is a thread about sqeenix's decision to stay P2P. Discussing other payment models and comparing the rest of the market against this game at this point in time is completely relevant and of course there are going to be people here with varying opinions. But how do you deal with someone that is literally telling everyone that doesn't agree with his personal mindset on payment models that they are a scourge? You don't really. You just point it out so everyone can see.

I thought I laid out my reasoning for why I consider them to be a scourge succinctly.   It isn't a matter of opinion whether freelaoders contribute money to a game's development or not.  It isn't a matter of opinion whether people who actually make video games are entitled to respect more than people who play them for free.  I guess the second is just my opinion, but whatever I stand by it and you can hate me for it. 

 

Those are just realities.  Look up the definition of free rider or freeloader, then go argue with Merriam-Webster about how mean they are.

I don't actually care that you are being disrespectful. I was just pointing it out to the guy that was claiming I was being disrespectful for voicing my opinion that there are better P2P and F2P options than FF:ARR. FF:ARR will probably be fun for a month or two for many people, but really, the only thing it's offering is a FF universe. Other than that, you could probably get a better MMORPG experience from many of the F2P games and some that cost a sub.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  vandal5627

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/04/12
Posts: 318

6/20/13 2:06:49 PM#137
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

 

- I have no respect for f2p players or MMO's

- Being a free rider, and taking advantage of "whales" is pretty despicable if you ask me.  I don't see your value as a "customer".

- But it really does sound like you are just a freeloader who doesn't want to pay for his video game if he can get a similar knock off experience elsewhere. 

- It does make him a freeloader, and it does make him cheap. 

- So you deserve to work for whatever the most desperate person on the planet in your industry would be willing to work for and not a penny more.

- Other people are paying for you, and yes that is despicable.  You are a freeloader

- I think people who advocate for F2P are either freeloaders are cheaters, I'm not going to retreat from that until someone can argue otherwise

- That just doesn't stop you F2P people from coming to my games and trying to ruin them because you people can't respect others.

- You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

What did freeloaders do to deserve my respect?

 

Did they make an MMORPG I enjoy?

Did they even help pay for the MMORPG I enjoy?

Are they special unique little butterflies that I should pay for just to have the privilege of their company in game?

 

No they are free riders who ride the contributions of others, benefiting while contributing nothing.  They are a scourge.  I refuse to "respect" that.

And there you go danwest. That is how he responded when it was pointed out that he was being disrespectful to others. This is a thread about sqeenix's decision to stay P2P. Discussing other payment models and comparing the rest of the market against this game at this point in time is completely relevant and of course there are going to be people here with varying opinions. But how do you deal with someone that is literally telling everyone that doesn't agree with his personal mindset on payment models that they are a scourge? You don't really. You just point it out so everyone can see.

I thought I laid out my reasoning for why I consider them to be a scourge succinctly.   It isn't a matter of opinion whether freelaoders contribute money to a game's development or not.  It isn't a matter of opinion whether people who actually make video games are entitled to respect more than people who play them for free.  I guess the second is just my opinion, but whatever I stand by it and you can hate me for it. 

 

Those are just realities.  Look up the definition of free rider or freeloader, then go argue with Merriam-Webster about how mean they are.

I don't actually care that you are being disrespectful. I was just pointing it out to the guy that was claiming I was being disrespectful for voicing my opinion that there are better P2P and F2P options than FF:ARR. FF:ARR will probably be fun for a month or two for many people, but really, the only thing it's offering is a FF universe. Other than that, you could probably get a better MMORPG experience from many of the F2P games and some that cost a sub.

 It's ok to voice your opinion, but why keep on repeating the same thing over and over, we get it, it's your opinion, so respect our opinion that we don't agree with you.

  Murugan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/08
Posts: 1567

6/20/13 2:10:49 PM#138
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by danwest58

colddog04

If you dont like the game you dont need to buy it or pay for a subscription.  Sitting here and talking shit about a game just to do it and hope it goes F2P so you can play is disrespectful of the developers, and disrespectful of the community that does not want it F2P.  Just the same as the people on the beta forums going from 2 F2P post to 6 in a matter of a few minutes to shove it down peoples throats that the game NEEDS TO BE F2P FOR THEM.  Well Sorry Yoshi-P said its P2P, you have two choices pay to play or play something else.  Stop disrespecting other people.  

I'm not hoping it goes F2P. I don't think I'd play it even if it was free since there are better options for a sub and without one. If you want to talk about disrespectful, I'll show you a few lines of one of the biggest proponents on this site for FF:ARR. I mean, really read them and pretend that you don't care either way about FFXIV for a second.

 

- I have no respect for f2p players or MMO's

- Being a free rider, and taking advantage of "whales" is pretty despicable if you ask me.  I don't see your value as a "customer".

- But it really does sound like you are just a freeloader who doesn't want to pay for his video game if he can get a similar knock off experience elsewhere. 

- It does make him a freeloader, and it does make him cheap. 

- So you deserve to work for whatever the most desperate person on the planet in your industry would be willing to work for and not a penny more.

- Other people are paying for you, and yes that is despicable.  You are a freeloader

- I think people who advocate for F2P are either freeloaders are cheaters, I'm not going to retreat from that until someone can argue otherwise

- That just doesn't stop you F2P people from coming to my games and trying to ruin them because you people can't respect others.

- You don't want to do either, so how about you leave this discussion and I won't come to the garbage you play and ask the developers to start making you pay for your entertainment instead of freeloading off of others.

What did freeloaders do to deserve my respect?

 

Did they make an MMORPG I enjoy?

Did they even help pay for the MMORPG I enjoy?

Are they special unique little butterflies that I should pay for just to have the privilege of their company in game?

 

No they are free riders who ride the contributions of others, benefiting while contributing nothing.  They are a scourge.  I refuse to "respect" that.

And there you go danwest. That is how he responded when it was pointed out that he was being disrespectful to others. This is a thread about sqeenix's decision to stay P2P. Discussing other payment models and comparing the rest of the market against this game at this point in time is completely relevant and of course there are going to be people here with varying opinions. But how do you deal with someone that is literally telling everyone that doesn't agree with his personal mindset on payment models that they are a scourge? You don't really. You just point it out so everyone can see.

I thought I laid out my reasoning for why I consider them to be a scourge succinctly.   It isn't a matter of opinion whether freelaoders contribute money to a game's development or not.  It isn't a matter of opinion whether people who actually make video games are entitled to respect more than people who play them for free.  I guess the second is just my opinion, but whatever I stand by it and you can hate me for it. 

 

Those are just realities.  Look up the definition of free rider or freeloader, then go argue with Merriam-Webster about how mean they are.

I don't actually care that you are being disrespectful. I was just pointing it out to the guy that was claiming I was being disrespectful for voicing my opinion that there are better P2P and F2P options than FF:ARR. FF:ARR will probably be fun for a month or two for many people, but really, the only thing it's offering is a FF universe. Other than that, you could probably get a better MMORPG experience from many of the F2P games and some that cost a sub.

Maybe you could, I can't I tried.

 

I paid for Rift, Tera, Aion, countless other F2P games when they were actual p2p MMORPG's, I have also played many as a F2P.  I'm not playing FFXIV because it is Final Fantasy.  I've only played one other FF title, and that was FFXI.  Which I played because it was a good MMORPG, not because of the final fantasy name.  It isn't my favorite MMORPG so I'm not playing XIV because of nostalgia for FFXI.  I think Vanguard was a better MMO (though I'll admit it was terribly mishandled by SOE/Sigil).

 

I'm playing FFXIV because it offers a better character progression system, a better storyline (Rift's storyline and world are honestly I think one of the worst ever and I can't play the game because of that and its class designs, even though I liked other portions of the game), and better encounters (based on experiences with this teams past examples in 1.x and demonstrations of similarly inspired albiet obviously less challenging low level content).

 

So you can belittle my opinion if you want, but and this may get me moderated I think you are a troll because you come in here and say "your game offers nothing others don't do better" and don't expand on that at all.  What do you like better in Rift, the soul system?  Maybe you prefer its world/storyline to ARR.

 

There was a time when people discussed games based on features and what they had to offer rather than just trolling them with  dime a dozen zingers and generalizations.  I don't expect you to have a civil discussion with me, so I'm sure youll just say "lol WoW Clone" or some other equally useless comment that will just further confirm my opinion of you.

http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan

  Malvious

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/04
Posts: 213

6/20/13 2:12:23 PM#139
Good i was getting sick and tired of all the f2p crap.

Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.

  SnarkRitter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/10
Posts: 337

6/20/13 2:16:56 PM#140
Originally posted by Murugan

What of the proof that those games DIDN'T offer the traditional MMORPG experience.

I said they weren't different enough from traditional MMORPGs.

TERA, SWTOR did not have a very good endgame and never added any.  People had no reason to continue subscribing after they finished leveling their chosen class.

And apparently, you assume that FF XIV ARR will have a very good endgame. And no, SWTOR actually had a  good endgame at launch and a very decent content update pace for the first 3 months, but still it bled subs like mad.

Rift stayed p2p for years, it has a greedy studio behind it that doesnt' care about its subscribers,what can I say about that.

Oh, actually the popular opinion is that Trion has the best customers support among MMORPGs developers, and RIFTs has one of, if not, the most rapid content update speed of all MMORPGs. Also RIFTs had very good endgame at launch.

You re-confirm my opinion is that FF XIV fanboys live in a world different from normal peoples.

Keep deluding yourself that the failure of SWTOR is proof of a universal demand for Mortal Online style sandboxes (or whatever "unique" featureset you are shilling for) and nothing to do with the game's myriad problems.

And you assume that FF XIV ARR won't have it's share of myriad problems.

Want to know the biggest universal complain all those games had? The answer is: "This game isn't different enough from traditional MMORPGs.

But you can keep convincing yourself .

Originally posted by danwest58

FYI GW2 is not a massive success.  I know I have had many friends go play the game, within a month quit because its nothing but D3 in an MMO setting.  Hate to say it but you are wrong.  You posted your opinion now go else where.  You dont see me trolling the WildSTar forums with my negativity about WildStar and how much I think it will flop do you?  No I have respect for them. 

Oh, GW2 is nothing but "D3 in an MMO setting"? You learn something new from FF XIV fanboys everyday.

Hate to say it but your friend was lying to you, because GW2 is nothing like D3 in any aspect, not the combat, not the skill system, not the loot orientation, not the dynamic events. And yes, GW2 is a massive success, only need to look at NCSoft financial report to see the proofs. And GW2's been released for almost a year. By this time most others MMORPGs would have merged half of the servers, GW2's not closed a single one. By this time most other MMORPGs would have slowed their content update significantly, GW2 now increase it's major update schedule to 2 per month.

And I don't hate FF XIV, im interested in it because I like final fantasy, and I like raising pets, but you guys are turning me away from the game.

 

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