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General Gaming  » Microsoft just dropped DRM

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234 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

6/19/13 7:39:19 PM#101
Originally posted by Silverbarr
Originally posted by Torvaldr
The fact that Blu-Ray got chosen over HD disks also shows that Sony cares more about their bottom line than they do about the consumer.

I'm afraid that the fact that Blu-Ray was just a better system for storage compared to HD was the fact that it was chosen.

Blu-Ray is not a better storage medium.  That really went to HD which was a wide open format.  There are some compelling reasons why Blu-Ray should have won, but the truth is that Sony collected a stronger group to promote the format and it won by strong-arm not merits.  They didn't do that because they cared about consumers, which was my point.  They did it to corner the market with a proprietary format something they're famous for.  Proprietary formats are rarely in the best interest of the consumer.

You also edited out my other point which is Sony shipped root kits in CDs because it protected their media with DRM.  Again, they recently exposed tens of millions of personal user data through the security breach cause by their negligence, negligence caused by them putting the dollar in front of consumer care.

Sony doesn't care about the consumer any more than Microsoft, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Oracle, Dell, IBM, Intel, AMD, or any other major tech company.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

6/19/13 7:45:16 PM#102

BTW, those of you who are stoked about this change should probably go read up on it.  The Xbox One lost a bunch of, what I consider, neat and modern features because of this change.

Hopefully they will eventually make it all work.  I, for one, liked the idea of cloud-stored game collections and whatnot.  From what I am reading right now, that's gone.

Here's an article... and check out the mixed reactions in the comments:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/19/microsoft-heeds-gamer-feedback-dumps-xbox-one-drm-restrictions/

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1011

6/19/13 7:47:45 PM#103
Originally posted by MindTrigger
In addition... this isn't a game console. It's a home entertainment console. Gaming is one of the many features of it.  Frankly, MS should have scrapped the whole Xbox legacy and started with a new name for this machine so people will understand what it is.

I loled.

 

So another words for watered down PC.

 

Once again, if people wants to buy a PC, they buy a PC, not a watered down PC. That was Microsoft error in thinking and even now they realised it - it is NOT about what the future is or what Microsoft wants, it is about what customer wants, because everything is driven by the market.

 

If you want fresh orange juice why the hell would you buy Fanta? lol

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

6/19/13 7:51:53 PM#104
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by MindTrigger
In addition... this isn't a game console. It's a home entertainment console. Gaming is one of the many features of it.  Frankly, MS should have scrapped the whole Xbox legacy and started with a new name for this machine so people will understand what it is.

I loled.

 

So another words for watered down PC.

 

Once again, if people wants to buy a PC, they buy a PC, not a watered down PC. That was Microsoft error in thinking and even now they realised it - it is NOT about what the future is or what Microsoft wants, it is about what customer wants, because everything is driven by the market.

 

If you want fresh orange juice why the hell would you buy Fanta? lol

Sure, it's kind of like a modern Media Center PC, I guess.  Lol all you want, but this is where the market is heading.  These may very well be the last "consoles" ever made, at least by the big boys.  By the time these age out, your TV will likely just do it all, and access services in the cloud, including games. MS and Sony will just make it a service and license it to TV manufacturers.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Silverbarr

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 324

6/19/13 7:59:07 PM#105
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Silverbarr
Originally posted by Torvaldr
The fact that Blu-Ray got chosen over HD disks also shows that Sony cares more about their bottom line than they do about the consumer.

I'm afraid that the fact that Blu-Ray was just a better system for storage compared to HD was the fact that it was chosen.

Blu-Ray is not a better storage medium.  That really went to HD which was a wide open format.  There are some compelling reasons why Blu-Ray should have won, but the truth is that Sony collected a stronger group to promote the format and it won by strong-arm not merits.  They didn't do that because they cared about consumers, which was my point.  They did it to corner the market with a proprietary format something they're famous for.  Proprietary formats are rarely in the best interest of the consumer.

You also edited out my other point which is Sony shipped root kits in CDs because it protected their media with DRM.  Again, they recently exposed tens of millions of personal user data through the security breach cause by their negligence, negligence caused by them putting the dollar in front of consumer care.

Sony doesn't care about the consumer any more than Microsoft, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Oracle, Dell, IBM, Intel, AMD, or any other major tech company.

Out of all this, the main thing that flags up is that you seem to believe that only Sony has ever been hacked. MS has been hacked many, many times. Yet Sony have been getting this argument thrown because it was big news ;) and published through media outlets throughout the world - don't get sucked into that media trap. BTW I have an XBOX360 and not a PS3.

 

From what I can research on the subject of Blu Ray vs HD, it appears that yes at the beginning there were many little differences but HDTV has a lot less available bandwidth than Blu Ray, which means the video and audio needs to get a higher compression, the more you compress the more detail is lost. This alone shows which has the potential for more improvements and advancement and therefore would win in my opinion. I should mention that this will probably always be a subjective argument.

"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1011

6/19/13 8:00:26 PM#106
Originally posted by MindTrigger

Sure, it's kind of like a modern Media Center PC, I guess.  Lol all you want, but this is where the market is heading.  These may very well be the last "consoles" ever made, at least by the big boys.  By the time these age out, your TV will likely just do it all, and access services in the cloud, including games.

lol that is NOT where the market is heading, that's the problem.

 

That's where YOU THINK the market is heading.

 

Nowadays the newer TV is already capable of the media center capabilities, and for "watered down PCs" people uses iPads or similar products.

 

Even Microsoft, Apple and Samsung and Sony realises that. Why do you think they are pushing in that direction in both handheld and TV arena, no new console for so long until now? lol

 

Your idea is very, very outdated (probably pre-dates the emergence of Smart TV and PDA phones and pads) and you THINK you are ahead :P

 

 

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

6/19/13 8:01:48 PM#107
Originally posted by MindTrigger

BTW, those of you who are stoked about this change should probably go read up on it.  The Xbox One lost a bunch of, what I consider, neat and modern features because of this change.

 So what.

Until they announce they are changing their attempts to FORCE indie companies to use a publisher no changes they make to make it less moronic is going to change my view of it.

They are using the idea that they are making a system of the future to try to control the industry and make fools of consumers. No amount of features makes what they are doing worth it. You don't give up freedoms or hand control over an industry to someone just so you can go "Oh look at the bells and whistles!".

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  User Deleted
6/19/13 8:03:40 PM#108
Originally posted by Vannor
I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

Exactly. I know where MS really stands. They will keep trying this until they get it. They just can't pull it off yet because of Sony.

 

One console will be enough for me. It will be a PS4.  

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

6/19/13 8:04:50 PM#109
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by MindTrigger

Sure, it's kind of like a modern Media Center PC, I guess.  Lol all you want, but this is where the market is heading.  These may very well be the last "consoles" ever made, at least by the big boys.  By the time these age out, your TV will likely just do it all, and access services in the cloud, including games.

lol that is NOT where the market is heading, that's the problem.

 

That's where YOU THINK the market is heading.

 

Nowadays the newer TV is already capable of the media center capabilities, and for "watered down PCs" people uses iPads or similar products.

 

Even Microsoft, Apple and Samsung and Sony realises that. Why do you think they are pushing in that direction in both handheld and TV arena, no new console for so long until now? lol

 

Your idea is very, very outdated (probably pre-dates the emergence of Smart TV and PDA phones and pads) and you THINK you are ahead :P

 

Really?  You believe 10 years from now people are still going to have shelves of equipment and disks stacked around their TVs?  You don't think TV manufacturers are going to continue making their TVs more powerful, and putting many of these features right inside, or better, building a TV that can just connect to services online and provide them all?

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1011

6/19/13 8:10:56 PM#110
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

lol that is NOT where the market is heading, that's the problem.

 

That's where YOU THINK the market is heading.

 

Nowadays the newer TV is already capable of the media center capabilities, and for "watered down PCs" people uses iPads or similar products.

 

Even Microsoft, Apple and Samsung and Sony realises that. Why do you think they are pushing in that direction in both handheld and TV arena, no new console for so long until now? lol

 

Your idea is very, very outdated (probably pre-dates the emergence of Smart TV and PDA phones and pads) and you THINK you are ahead :P

 

Really?  You believe 10 years from now people are still going to have shelves of equipment and disks stacked around their TVs?  You don't think TV manufacturers are going to continue making their TVs more powerful, and putting many of these features right inside, or better, building a TV that can just connect to services online and provide them all?

lol what the hell r u talking about? Did you even read my post?

 

Do you even know what Smart TV is? Since when does Smart TV needs DVD? Smart TV ALREADY HAS MORE FEATURE INSIDE, lol - it is already streaming movies.

 

Which proves exactly my point why watered down pc aka always online console is even MORE irrelevant . If TV can do it and iPad can do the rest, why need to pay extra for a watered down pc aka always online console?

 

lol 10 years from now... it is has already happened. Just shows how outdated you are.

 

 

Now you are just losing it and gasping straws and arguing the irrelevant because you've already lost the console argument, lol... give it up dude

  Hanthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/17/13
Posts: 223

PROUD P2P Elitist...

6/19/13 8:11:59 PM#111
This was a last ditch attempt to have you do all these things through Microsoft before Samsung, LG and Sony have you doing through their TV's within the next five years. They failed. As far as manufacturers go, consoles will get made by someone. Everyone has been claiming for fifteen years that games were going to an online only platform. How's that workin' out for you? This little episode should be proof that whether or not it's the wave of the future, most people aren't interested and will take their business elsewhere if pushed too hard.
  zymurgeist

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5185

6/19/13 8:12:12 PM#112
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by MindTrigger
In addition... this isn't a game console. It's a home entertainment console. Gaming is one of the many features of it.  Frankly, MS should have scrapped the whole Xbox legacy and started with a new name for this machine so people will understand what it is.

I loled.

 

So another words for watered down PC.

 

Once again, if people wants to buy a PC, they buy a PC, not a watered down PC. That was Microsoft error in thinking and even now they realised it - it is NOT about what the future is or what Microsoft wants, it is about what customer wants, because everything is driven by the market.

 

If you want fresh orange juice why the hell would you buy Fanta? lol

Sure, it's kind of like a modern Media Center PC, I guess.  Lol all you want, but this is where the market is heading.  These may very well be the last "consoles" ever made, at least by the big boys.  By the time these age out, your TV will likely just do it all, and access services in the cloud, including games.

The grand unified field theory of entertainment. They've been trying to sell that one for decades. No one is buying. Just as no one is buying 3D television. Just as Blu-ray is a dead end killed almost immediately by cheap digital storage. Some day companies will learn people want more freedom and universal availability across platforms not being locked into a single service by limited physical media or unworkable digital restrictions. The cloud is marketspeak for offsite storage. The hard drive in my laptop can store every book in the Library of Congress in digital form. Why is it I need a cloud for content storage? Digital delivery may be the future but the cloud is just a rehash of the old dumb terminal smart server network failure.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  superniceguy

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2277

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

6/19/13 8:22:34 PM#113
Originally posted by PWN_FACE
Originally posted by Vannor
I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

Exactly. I know where MS really stands. They will keep trying this until they get it. They just can't pull it off yet because of Sony.

 

One console will be enough for me. It will be a PS4.  

Sony already have a patent to block used games, and if they can pull off blocking used games, Sony will do it.

Sony also have a patent to pause F2P games to display ads

The only way to avoid all these shenanigans is to go Nintendo and Wii U, as they are not going anywhere in this direction, as they think their games are so awesome, they do not need this crap

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

6/19/13 8:28:30 PM#114
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by MindTrigger
In addition... this isn't a game console. It's a home entertainment console. Gaming is one of the many features of it.  Frankly, MS should have scrapped the whole Xbox legacy and started with a new name for this machine so people will understand what it is.

I loled.

 

So another words for watered down PC.

 

Once again, if people wants to buy a PC, they buy a PC, not a watered down PC. That was Microsoft error in thinking and even now they realised it - it is NOT about what the future is or what Microsoft wants, it is about what customer wants, because everything is driven by the market.

 

If you want fresh orange juice why the hell would you buy Fanta? lol

Sure, it's kind of like a modern Media Center PC, I guess.  Lol all you want, but this is where the market is heading.  These may very well be the last "consoles" ever made, at least by the big boys.  By the time these age out, your TV will likely just do it all, and access services in the cloud, including games.

The grand unified field theory of entertainment. They've been trying to sell that one for decades. No one is buying. Just as no one is buying 3D television. Just as Blu-ray is a dead end killed almost immediately by cheap digital storage. Some day companies will learn people want more freedom and universal availability across platforms not being locked into a single service by limited physical media or unworkable digital restrictions. The cloud is marketspeak for offsite storage. The hard drive in my laptop can store every book in the Library of Congress in digital form. Why is it I need a cloud for content storage? Digital delivery may be the future but the cloud is just a rehash of the old dumb terminal smart server network failure.

The question you should be asking is why you need to store your own copy of the library of congress, or why millions of people should have their own copy, when it will be ubiquitously available online via the net.  On other note, people lose shit all the time that they store on local storage due to disasters, hardware failures, theft, etc.  What are people doing now?  Using cloud backup for their data.  So now you have your own local copy, and you are paying to keep a copy in the cloud. Why not just pay a cloud service to provide it all?  

Do you believe this trend is not going to continue?  I think you may want to get caught up on tech.  Unless there is some major disruptive reason to end this trend, it's only going to continue.  Even nVidia is working on streaming games.  I don't see how this is so hard for some to understand.  10-15 years is a long time in tech.  Go look up what it looked like that long ago, and then factor in the acceleration factor.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 365

6/19/13 8:33:16 PM#115
They had to, sony was killing them to the point they might as well not even made any xboxs you would have had to be a fool to buy one before this. The damage is done tho, people will remember this for awhile and wont buy one regardless, after about 2 months after release people will forget and start to buy them again.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

6/19/13 8:39:17 PM#116
Originally posted by MindTrigger

The question you should be asking is why you need to store your own copy of the library of congress, or why millions of people should have their own copy, when it will be ubiquitously available online via the net.  

 Why do you feel the need to own your own car when buses and trains can take you there.

Jesus Christ man...not everyone wants the same god damn thing and anyone thinking it should be FORCED on us is basically bat shit crazy. you are an amazingly closed minded person for someone claiming to have his fingers on the pulse of the future.

Hey want to know about some of the other things that are COMING AND NOTHING CAN STOP IT? Go watch any single one of the world of tomorrow videos...so quick, sell your car and never buy one again, flying cars ARE the future and nothing can stop progress.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  darkhalf357x

Elite Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1108

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

6/19/13 8:44:25 PM#117
It would have killed their sales and their image.  Still going to hack it like I did my 360.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15528

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/19/13 8:45:10 PM#118
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by tawess
Originally posted by Vannor
I This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers,

Hate to breake it to you, but Sony does not do things because of this either, they do things to maximize profit, if that happens to align with pleasing the gamer crowd, that is just luck.

Still, good i guess.

Either way, Sony's policies were in the right place, luck or not. MS's wasn't. It's natural for corporations to try and overreach, but then the people speak up and suddenly they remember they're outnumbered... and need money. Sony didn't try to overreach but MS did.

Probably because Sony learned their lesson last time with the release of PS3. Or have we forgotten it was MS that was considered the "gamers friend"<-lol, and Sony the cash grabbers last Gen.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Jockan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4111

6/19/13 8:46:39 PM#119
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
It would have killed their sales and their image.  Still going to hack it like I did my 360.

 

 

This is the reason why they wanted the 24 Hour Authentication Check.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

6/19/13 8:52:41 PM#120
Originally posted by Mannish
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
It would have killed their sales and their image.  Still going to hack it like I did my 360.

 

 

This is the reason why they wanted the 24 Hour Authentication Check.

 It still wouldn't have stopped it, the connection process can be spoofed which is how all cloud based games have been hacked. Just look at ONlive lol.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

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