Trending Games | WildStar | Guild Wars 2 | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,637,208 Users Online:0
Games:678  Posts:6,072,469
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMO design and the unnecessity of leveling

8 posts found
  crispycrab

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/13
Posts: 5

 
OP  6/16/13 6:19:12 PM#1

One of the first MMO's I ever really got involved with was the first Guild Wars.

I remember back when I first started the game, walking around Ascalon all I ever saw was people at around lvl 20 - and looking at the map I would think shit, this game must be one hell of a grind if this is only a 1-20 area.

After about 2 days I hit the 20 cap and I knew that I was already basically on par with most other players that have been on the game for months, since the game was heavily skill-build based (okay I guess gear helped a fair bit as well, but no amount of gear could help a retard). It was cool, because I could focus on the main content of the game and do everything else that all the other people were doing and I didn’t have to grind on drakes for 50 hrs to do it.

When I look at the MMO market now, I see a lot of interesting games that could be fun - and have some new things that would be cool to try out, except I would have to grind to lvl 80 on collection quests to get to that stuff.

I like the idea of a huge open world with loads of real people running around with their own goals and having some influence on the game and the environment you’re in. For some insane reason that I could never understand though, everyone seems to get tangled up in the PvE as if it’s a necessity for the game to be enjoyable: and this isn’t even PvE in the sense of doing raids and collaborative instances, its grinding on the same meaningless quests over and over to reach some exponentially time consuming arbitrary level.

I think it’s a pretty well-known fact that in the majority of MMO’s, 80% of the on-going, re-subscribing and cash-shopping player base are the players that have reached the end-game content and are participating on all these things which were designed for people that hit the level cap. So why is it that all of these game developers continue to create these grind-fests in the hope of creating the next successor to WoW? Why aren’t they concentrating on actual game features, or improving upon existing ones, instead of wasting time and money creating enormous worlds consisting of zones which people would only spend a couple of hours in? Why not cut the shit and make a world where you can level from 1 to x in like 2-3 days without selling your soul to grinding values in a database, and build a smaller, condensed world that is built around complex high level play from the start: more raids, more pvp, more expansive economies – none of this pointless lvl 1 to 80 grinding shit which NOBODY enjoys doing.

WoW has already won the MMO trophy for a vast sprawling world with consistent leveling progression, and yet most companies are still trying to be the 'next WoW' - how many fucking times have we heard about the next WoW-killer? Why is every MMO trying to be WoW instead of creating a new MMO with its own unique features and complex design?

They all follow the same pattern we've seen over and over: tiring server queues on lauch and then declining playerbases after the first 3 months when everyone's hit the cap and realised 'oh wait, this is just WoW with less stuff'.

Now GW2 has gone down the same road, a poor and pale comparison to its own unique predecessor.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4290

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

6/16/13 6:34:12 PM#2
Originally posted by crispycrab

One of the first MMO's I ever really got involved with was the first Guild Wars.

I remember back when I first started the game, walking around Ascalon all I ever saw was people at around lvl 20 - and looking at the map I would think shit, this game must be one hell of a grind if this is only a 1-20 area.

After about 2 days I hit the 20 cap and I knew that I was already basically on par with most other players that have been on the game for months, since the game was heavily skill-build based (okay I guess gear helped a fair bit as well, but no amount of gear could help a retard). It was cool, because I could focus on the main content of the game and do everything else that all the other people were doing and I didn’t have to grind on drakes for 50 hrs to do it.

When I look at the MMO market now, I see a lot of interesting games that could be fun - and have some new things that would be cool to try out, except I would have to grind to lvl 80 on collection quests to get to that stuff.

I like the idea of a huge open world with loads of real people running around with their own goals and having some influence on the game and the environment you’re in. For some insane reason that I could never understand though, everyone seems to get tangled up in the PvE as if it’s a necessity for the game to be enjoyable: and this isn’t even PvE in the sense of doing raids and collaborative instances, its grinding on the same meaningless quests over and over to reach some exponentially time consuming arbitrary level.

I think it’s a pretty well-known fact that in the majority of MMO’s, 80% of the on-going, re-subscribing and cash-shopping player base are the players that have reached the end-game content and are participating on all these things which were designed for people that hit the level cap. So why is it that all of these game developers continue to create these grind-fests in the hope of creating the next successor to WoW? Why aren’t they concentrating on actual game features, or improving upon existing ones, instead of wasting time and money creating enormous worlds consisting of zones which people would only spend a couple of hours in? Why not cut the shit and make a world where you can level from 1 to x in like 2-3 days without selling your soul to grinding values in a database, and build a smaller, condensed world that is built around complex high level play from the start: more raids, more pvp, more expansive economies – none of this pointless lvl 1 to 80 grinding shit which NOBODY enjoys doing.

WoW has already won the MMO trophy for a vast sprawling world with consistent leveling progression, and yet most companies are still trying to be the 'next WoW' - how many fucking times have we heard about the next WoW-killer? Why is every MMO trying to be WoW instead of creating a new MMO with its own unique features and complex design?

They all follow the same pattern we've seen over and over: tiring server queues on lauch and then declining playerbases after the first 3 months when everyone's hit the cap and realised 'oh wait, this is just WoW with less stuff'.

Now GW2 has gone down the same road, a poor and pale comparison to its own unique predecessor.

Actually there are several stats showing that the majority of players, yes subscribers too, never even make it to end game.

Essentially there are 2 competing philosophies.

1.  Those that like progression and want a lot of it.  In this game there will be grind, you can disguise it with a lot of options and varitey of tasks but if there is progression and that is the main point of the game there will be grind, no way around that as it is essentially an attitude.

2.  Gaames with vitually no progression, in this game it's possible that there will not be grind.  The game is centered around some other attribute.

edit - I think virtually every dev out there believes they are doing something unique with their game.  I do not think the declining player base 3 months after launch has anything to do with lack of content, or trying to beat wow, and everything to do with the belief that holding onto millions of players is just not reasonable or likely. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Quazal.A

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 378

6/16/13 6:36:54 PM#3

What i would actually say to you is that there are games out there that dont rely on the level idea.

for instance

New game = The Secret World - based on skill sets/ plans to help you

Old Game - EvE Time based learning, the longer you play the better  you get

 

The biggest problem with moving away from level based MMO is that people dont commit the time / too impatient, they want everything now/yesterday.

Read the EvE forum and you will see someone 'bitching' about spending 14hours waiting for a skill to finish - I have just finished a 52day skill on my main

Where as you can play sometihng like neverwinter and get to cap in under a week. (this is how long it took me ) and that was being fairly relaxed and going around happily

So whilst  I am a big advocate of the non Level based play in practicality in todays consumer - want it now- driven market we are unlikely to see many games work on either the real time or skill set based levelling.

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  crispycrab

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/13
Posts: 5

 
OP  6/16/13 6:44:52 PM#4

Obviously there will have to be some sort of grind for an MMO involving progression. I'm not saying that leveling is the only way for there to be any sort of progression - for example gear is nearly always going to be a contributing factor. It's not about taking away the grind, its about removing the unnecessary monster tagging and questing for endless amounts of hours just to reach the same level cap that everyone else is gunning for, and then once you reach that point you can finally start playing the 'real game'. And what if you don't even enjoy the end-game? What was all that grinding for?

A player that spends more time will always have the advantage, and it's not about removing the number crunching. It's about minimization - stick to the gameplay instead of overloading it with unnecessary and bloated content just to fulfill the 'traditional' leveling gap.

For example, games like the original Guild Wars put you straight in with other players after just a few days of playing. Shit, you were able to create a lvl 20 character from the get-go if you wanted to just PvP. That game took a long ass time to die out because it always provided content that was accessible to everyone, and really it only died out after they pruned out the multiplayer aspect of the game and made it more of a solo game for achievement grinding.

Warhammer (although pretty much dead now) was entirely based around PvP and everyone could join in and contribute to the overall outcome of the game no matter what level. It was fun as fuck and you didn't have to invest crazy amounts of time grinding on AI in a supposedly multiplayer environment. The game only really died due to the insanely poor support from its publisher.

  c0exist

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 173

6/16/13 6:45:02 PM#5
Instead of trying to change the mmorpg genre perhaps you should look into playing other genres.  Taking a grind out of an mmorpg is as detrimental as taking the guns out of a game like Planetside.  Remove that key aspect and the game is no longer of its original genre.  And there are plenty of people i know personally and many more on these forums that dont see grinding as bad.  
  crispycrab

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/13
Posts: 5

 
OP  6/16/13 6:50:21 PM#6
Originally posted by w407309

What i would actually say to you is that there are games out there that dont rely on the level idea.

for instance

New game = The Secret World - based on skill sets/ plans to help you

Old Game - EvE Time based learning, the longer you play the better  you get

 

The biggest problem with moving away from level based MMO is that people dont commit the time / too impatient, they want everything now/yesterday.

Read the EvE forum and you will see someone 'bitching' about spending 14hours waiting for a skill to finish - I have just finished a 52day skill on my main

Where as you can play sometihng like neverwinter and get to cap in under a week. (this is how long it took me ) and that was being fairly relaxed and going around happily

So whilst  I am a big advocate of the non Level based play in practicality in todays consumer - want it now- driven market we are unlikely to see many games work on either the real time or skill set based levelling.


I've played EVE for 4 years entirely because of its progression system - they had a good system and it was enjoyable because it cut straight to the chase and you could have done whatever you wanted from the beginning without being at a severe disadvantage to older players.

People don't commit the time to these non-level based MMO's because there's no obvious reward and the gameplay is lacking in its own right - I agree that too many people are shifting towards the 'i want it now' mindset, but how is this any different than having to grind out levels before playing the actual game as opposed to playing the game as it should be played from the beginning?

  crispycrab

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/13
Posts: 5

 
OP  6/16/13 6:53:26 PM#7
Originally posted by c0exist
Instead of trying to change the mmorpg genre perhaps you should look into playing other genres.  Taking a grind out of an mmorpg is as detrimental as taking the guns out of a game like Planetside.  Remove that key aspect and the game is no longer of its original genre.  And there are plenty of people i know personally and many more on these forums that dont see grinding as bad.  

The point is that the grind doesn't have to be an unnecessarily long leveling system based around PvE elements which doesn't even involve other players.

Grinding can be good, but it has to be rewarding - not just pointing everyone to the same goal of being able to finally participate in raid A and PvP zone B

  Vynxe_Vainglory

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/13
Posts: 21

6/16/13 7:05:39 PM#8

I am blown away that these games don't just have a grind server and a non-grind server at launch.