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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » The topic on everyone's mind: "Can EQ:Next work with Sony's F2P Model?"

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49 posts found
  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 448

 
OP  6/16/13 8:15:07 AM#1

My personal opinion is "Hell No", but I've been around for quite awhile with experience of every model out there along with SOE's long standing of hating their own products.

I personally saw how badly they messed up Planetside 2 with their "F2P Model", and quite frankly I feel if they do the same it'll burn the Everquest franchise to the floor worse than EQ2 did. However, again that's just from personal experience.

 

However, I'd love to know everyone else's opinion :).

 

Simple question, do you feel F2P can work with a truly open-ended Sandbox model game that SOE is working to build for Everquest 3?

 

 

  ice-vortex

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 903

6/16/13 8:16:20 AM#2
Uh, there's nothing wrong with Planetside 2's F2P model.
  NoLimit5401

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/12
Posts: 19

6/16/13 8:22:22 AM#3

This was not on my mind

 

I think as long as they offer a sub option like Eq2 or Dcuo, I will be happy.

  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 448

 
OP  6/16/13 8:24:04 AM#4
Originally posted by NoLimit5401
This was not on my mind

Don't lie to me NoLimit. It's alright, you won't be torn asunder bro :).

  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 448

 
OP  6/16/13 8:27:55 AM#5
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Uh, there's nothing wrong with Planetside 2's F2P model.

Guns for $5-15 a piece?

Upgrades that are the same?

The best sniper rifle for NC in the game was a $15 unlock, and probably still is. I'm not sure because I stopped playing when I realized how Pay-2-Play was infinitely cheaper for the player to play.

 

Not to mention the massive # of cheaters in Ps2, because all they have to do once their banned is simply spoof their Hardware ID bans from SOE then roll a new account.

 

Almost every battle I played a couple months ago had cheaters under the ground, flying around, teleporting AMS's into the side of buildings etc etc. Not to mention the across-the-map running headshots from snipers like I was standing in front of them.

 

The current total cheater's perma-banned from Planetside 2 exceed the current number of players still playing. That says a LOT for such a new title.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree that there's "nothing wrong".

 

They cut the game into pieces in order to make money, and that murders the game's very soul.

 

I'd rather go to the movie theatre, or buy ONE pizza, less per month and pay $15/month without a cash-shop involved than pay $550 to access the same content.

  Soki123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1274

6/16/13 8:35:01 AM#6
It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.
  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 448

 
OP  6/16/13 8:40:58 AM#7
Originally posted by Soki123
It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.

You probably don't know what to look for, and have just brushed those experiences off as chance or simply missed them.

Last time I logged in our whole platoon got wiped out on teamspeak by two people. One was a medic and the other was a support. They were camping a roof of an objective point, and their LMG support was SNIPING my guys coming on foot from our AMS (aka: respawn sundy).

 

After they wracked up about ~100 kills my guys all rage quit (14 of us at the time btw). Two days later both of those guys were banned, and our clan swore off Planetside 2. We'd had countless scenarios like that, amongst some of the worse examples posted before, that all weighed heavily on that decision too.

 

 

ps: Any time you put a REAL item, such as a gun/upgrade/w-e, on your cash-shop it becomes pay to win. Especially when purchasing said item shaves days, weeks, or even months off the time it would have taken to achieve it. Changing the name, or the way you can achieve it, doesn't make it any less Pay-To-Win, or dirty.

 

 

  Soki123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1274

6/16/13 8:43:19 AM#8
Originally posted by BearKnight
Originally posted by Soki123
It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.

You probably don't know what to look for, and have just brushed those experiences off as chance or simply missed them.

Last time I logged in our whole platoon got wiped out on teamspeak by two people. One was a medic and the other was a support. They were camping a roof of an objective point, and their LMG support was SNIPING my guys coming on foot from our AMS (aka: respawn sundy).

 

After they wracked up about ~100 kills my guys all rage quit (14 of us at the time btw). Two days later both of those guys were banned, and our clan swore off Planetside 2. We'd had countless scenarios like that, amongst some of the worse examples posted before, that all weighed heavily on that decision too.

 

 

I ve played it a ton, and never seen it, not sure what else to tell you. Shit happens anyways, it s just a game.

  jesteralways

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 514

6/16/13 8:45:26 AM#9
Originally posted by BearKnight

My personal opinion is "Hell No", but I've been around for quite awhile with experience of every model out there along with SOE's long standing of hating their own products.

I personally saw how badly they messed up Planetside 2 with their "F2P Model", and quite frankly I feel if they do the same it'll burn the Everquest franchise to the floor worse than EQ2 did. However, again that's just from personal experience.

 

However, I'd love to know everyone else's opinion :).

 

Simple question, do you feel F2P can work with a truly open-ended Sandbox model game that SOE is working to build for Everquest 3?

 

 

yes it will work just "fine" as other SOE mmo, there will be a sub option and people who will sub will be free to hack/bot/write racist message; slang in chat but if a non sub tells them to shut up will instantly get banned for a week, not to mention if free players use a single slang in chat : perma banned within 2 min. it works fine for SOE.

No panties, No Life

  ET3D

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 169

6/16/13 8:45:38 AM#10
Can it work? Probably not to the satisfaction of everyone. Is there another option? I don't think so.
  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1550

6/16/13 8:48:42 AM#11
Originally posted by BearKnight

 

Simple question, do you feel F2P can work with a truly open-ended Sandbox model game that SOE is working to build for Everquest 3?

 

 

I wouldn't get caught up in this sandbox thing, EQN will not be a true sandbox game no matter how Smed wants to label it.

 

Think Hybrid.

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  shibonoryu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/10
Posts: 20

6/16/13 8:51:26 AM#12
Originally posted by BearKnight
Originally posted by Soki123
It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.

You probably don't know what to look for, and have just brushed those experiences off as chance or simply missed them.

Last time I logged in our whole platoon got wiped out on teamspeak by two people. One was a medic and the other was a support. They were camping a roof of an objective point, and their LMG support was SNIPING my guys coming on foot from our AMS (aka: respawn sundy).

After they wracked up about ~100 kills my guys all rage quit (14 of us at the time btw). Two days later both of those guys were banned, and our clan swore off Planetside 2. We'd had countless scenarios like that, amongst some of the worse examples posted before, that all weighed heavily on that decision too.

ps: Any time you put a REAL item, such as a gun/upgrade/w-e, on your cash-shop it becomes pay to win. Especially when purchasing said item shaves days, weeks, or even months off the time it would have taken to achieve it. Changing the name, or the way you can achieve it, doesn't make it any less Pay-To-Win, or dirty.

Underlined part - This has nothing to do with your issues with whether or not the game is "p2w", this is an issue of either your squad being horrible, or more than likely, they were hacking, hence the banhammer. You're just whining to whine at this point.

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

6/16/13 9:15:39 AM#13

EQ and EQ2 had a resurgence in players due to free to play.

 

SOE does not sell power in those games. They do sell leveling gear in EQ1 and Vanguard, they used to in EQ2 but stopped. They sell xp boost potions and spell research time. However, it has not equated into power because they do not sell high end rai0d gear or equivalent, or even end game dungeon gear or equivalent.

I have read many complaints about PS2 and it selling high end weapons. That appears tantamount to end game gear, which would be power for sale in EQ and EQ2 and Vanguard.

We will have to wait and see. We do not know if EQN will use a leveling system like EQ,EQ2 a certification system like PS2 a real time spell research system like EQ2 and EVE Online or what.

We also do not know what they are going to sell on the SC market.

For me, until I see that I am going to assume the best, that it will be like EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard and be simple convenience like leveling gear and xp potions and fluff like Mounts and Pets.

 

Right now EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard can have a subscription and are exactly like WoW, they are a sub and you can buy mounts and pets. The only difference is WoW has free heirloom gear and SOE sells it via the cash shop, for all intents and purposes of this discussion.

We also have to consider the audience. Selling power will turn off a lot of MMORPG players. On the other hand they are going for a new market.

Wait and see is what we have to do.

Hopefully it is the same EQ, EQ2 and VG model.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4429

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

6/16/13 9:26:15 AM#14

Will there be any way to convert real money into game money? Will the economy be heavily player driven?

If the answer is yes to the above questions, a F2P model will not work well. This is the same question I have with "The Repopulation".

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  Koroshiya

Elite Member

Joined: 6/18/05
Posts: 220

Live with love, and love will find you.

6/16/13 9:38:25 AM#15
Originally posted by dejoblue

EQ and EQ2 had a resurgence in players due to free to play.

 

SOE does not sell power in those games. They do sell leveling gear in EQ1 and Vanguard, they used to in EQ2 but stopped. They sell xp boost potions and spell research time. However, it has not equated into power because they do not sell high end rai0d gear or equivalent, or even end game dungeon gear or equivalent.

I have read many complaints about PS2 and it selling high end weapons. That appears tantamount to end game gear, which would be power for sale in EQ and EQ2 and Vanguard.

We will have to wait and see. We do not know if EQN will use a leveling system like EQ,EQ2 a certification system like PS2 a real time spell research system like EQ2 and EVE Online or what.

We also do not know what they are going to sell on the SC market.

For me, until I see that I am going to assume the best, that it will be like EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard and be simple convenience like leveling gear and xp potions and fluff like Mounts and Pets.

 

Right now EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard can have a subscription and are exactly like WoW, they are a sub and you can buy mounts and pets. The only difference is WoW has free heirloom gear and SOE sells it via the cash shop, for all intents and purposes of this discussion.

We also have to consider the audience. Selling power will turn off a lot of MMORPG players. On the other hand they are going for a new market.

Wait and see is what we have to do.

Hopefully it is the same EQ, EQ2 and VG model.

the problem for peoples argument that PS2's payment model is pay to win, is that everything in game can be unlocked (except camo's which aren't stat based only cosmetic) is that the guns themselves aren't really that different from the default gun, they have cooler sounds, might have a bit more velocity for range, or RPM for close range the reality is the default guns are just all of the bought guns mashed up into a "jack of all trades" gun.  The power for these guns come from the attachments you can buy, and the default guns for the most part have the same exact choices minus one or two.  The attachments which make the gun powerful can not be unlocked with cash, only certs which you earn by playing.  On top of it, all the guns that you can buy that are more geared toward a certain play style, can also be unlocked with certs not just cash.  For my MAX unit, I unlocked 2 weapons for 500 certs, took me about 5 hours of play time or I could have bought them for 5 bucks each.  

 

As for the cheaters, they are there.  But they aren't anywhere near where the haters in this thread are trying to make it sound.  I play planetside 2 everyday, at least 2-3 hours a night and I always run into baddy squads that get farmed coming out of the sundi, I rarely run into people cheating though.

 

Now, on to the topic of EQ2 and if its model will work in eqn.  Not for me, hell no.  why?  because they have rediculous amounts of roadblocks for free 2 play characters.  Gear tier locks, skill locks all bs money grubbing things.  They need a real open model like Tera, or guild wars 2 both of which I spend tons in their cash shops because I can spend money and give them support when it makes sense for ME and my pocketbook, as a direct result, I tend to spend more per year then I would with the sub model and in games like eq2, I just don't play anymore.  Too many other options out there.  They will gut eqn if they try to launch with their current mindset.  They need to look at the current next gen argument going on over Xbox one and PS4 and take a learning from SCE.  Start treating your customers like they matter, not their dollar and the other companies will shoot themselves in the foot for you.  If you don't try and fleece us for every penny we as gamers will gladly give you our last dime!

“The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness” – Bob Marley

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

6/16/13 9:40:58 AM#16
If its not on my mind does that mean there is something wrong with me, and can you be positive its going to be F2P with a cash shop?
  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

6/16/13 10:28:50 AM#17

Is it cause I am older and have been gaming for a while that I notice change as a constant and real part of our reality? heh

Guys, Gals, Guys :) Don't ever allow your minds to grasp anything as simply said it keeps you from seeing reality in a real way :)

Wre certainly are affected by an everchanging world and as such an everchanging economy therein; everything is connected and each affects the other and so on...

I remember hearing stories of people racking up 100s and 1000s of dollars playing online MUDs. Hourly useage fees for dialup was mainly the issue here back in the day.

Then there was monthly fees for dialup and then we moved onto broadband (thank the gods!) and I sure took advantage of exclusive free trial period promotional deals as I switched from dsl to cable and so on for as long as I could. Nowadays you have limitations on bandwidth usage based on your internet package from your internet provider.

Monthly fees were the standard in MMORPGs for a long time. Now and I consider this due to the numerous amount of MMORPGs on the market and more and more in development; Companies are allowing initial free acess to what used to be a monthly fee game or simply allowing it to be free right at launch, as they want you to play their game.

Farmers; This is a factor which has changing MMORPGs as they were a scourge for many years. Personally, I sold a character while playing Asheron's Call for $2250 and recalling the time involved into this character it wasn't worth my time/energy. Farmering companies do whatever it takes to obtain ingame currency, item, and characters in the quickest, most efficient, most effective way possible as their bottomline is making money alongside the competition. So many times I tried to tell gaming companies to sell their own currency, items, characters and yet this would surely become an issue and again there are so many games to choose from these days. Farmers have helped change and shapre the MMORPG world we play in today.

So how does a gaming company make money off of their product? This is the question you have to ask yourself yet be aware there are so many variables to consider and the mind doesn't know, so just let it go and be happy being able to try the game out (after you bought the product) free and then decide for yourself if you want to continue to play or jump ship for there are 100s of MMORPGs out there and even more in development.

The gist of it? They want us tuned in, turned off, dropped in or rather jacked in O.o!

 

 

  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

6/16/13 11:33:57 AM#18

I disagree with the complaints of the EQ2 model. Certainly there are locks on bagslots and gear equips and spells. My solution has been to level with the free spells and abilities with Mastercrafted gear and then once I get to max level I buy the bag slots and spells and if I get awesome gear I pay for it as it comes. This is till much less overall than paying $15/month. I can buy the bag slots as I level and there is a large investment into spells once I get to max level but gear upgrades come slowly as well.

I understand the feeling of frustration, I really do, but it is more than fair when you consider the time played versus what you would have played with a subscription.

 

Bag slots are open for all now.

All races and classes, except freeblood and beastlord, are free to all.

You pay for spell unlocks, 5 for 150SC, that is 50 for about $15 less if you catch an SC sale or double SC weekend.

Of course what we see in EQNext is to be determined. But I have hope that they are learning as they go along and see more and more of what people are willing to pay for and what the impact is on having locks on and off are. I think in the end they will find that people buy all kinds of appearance armor and housing items and it is more benefit to sell expansions and have everything open and free so that engaged players are then willing and able to buy that mount and this and that, IE they are getting more than $15 a month, even when everything is open, and that gives them more players, etc.

 

To clarify, You can level a character in EQ2 to max level and once there you have to buy spell unlocks and gear unlocks. That is it. Everything else is free.

To unlock an item is 25 SC. To unlock all items is 600 SC. It is 40 SC for one item and 25 SC for 2 ore more, 25SC/item.

 

So were looking at 600 SC, that leaves you with 400 SC with a $10 card or 10 spells, catch SC on sale and you can get a $20 card for $15 which is 600 SC for gear and 1400 SC for 45 spell unlocks.

And this is a one time $15 investment. Not including however many months of free game play it took you to level to max.

Yes the expansion to be able tog et to max is $40. So you are out $55 and get to play for free otherwise, like GW2. And if you DO have the money and budget out for $15 worth of SC every month you get WAY more and then you catch double SC weekends and deals like the current $5 off on Gamestop cards... that is $120 a year worth of SC, for a free game, that you dont have to spend and if you play your cards right, and save it and wait and get a deal like now, that is 15,000 SC or we get another double SC weekend that is 24,000 SC. Enough for all of your alts.

But we are seriously talking like $60 a year.

  User Deleted
6/16/13 11:41:49 AM#19

What is with these people and OMG PS2 was pay to win. 

 

NO pay to win is you HAVE to pay because you cannot achieve that power without paying.  PS2 allows you to unlock EVERYTHING through and wait for it PLAYING THE GAME.

  Bidwood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 555

6/16/13 12:49:49 PM#20

It'll be pay-to-play. Like the guy above said, SOE is a business and needs to make money. They can't give us something 100% free.

 

Since this will be a sandbox with lots of building, presumably, I could see a shop for buying raw building materials to save the time collecting them all.

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