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Firefall

Firefall 

General Discussion  » Firefall, a failure produced by Red5

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36 posts found
  megaderp

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 3

 
OP  6/11/13 3:38:49 PM#1

off my experience, I feel that firefall is a lacking game with a horrible company behind it. I've seen games like these and they just die as soon as they are released. 

 

-horrible customer support

-static  game-play (baneclaw) and nothing exciting

-over-priced store/shop system

-a massive fucking grind

 

anybody else feel the same way?

  templarx

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/05
Posts: 181

6/13/13 3:26:45 AM#2

Sorry , nope.

I suggest you go play Defiance and Marvel Heroes and then return to Firefall and see if you feel the same. I honestly don't expect super customer support in a game that is in CLOSED BETA.  

 

As for "nothing exciting" that's the nature of a Sandbox, it's as exciting as you make it. If you're going to thump/mine right outside the main city all day long and moan about grind and lack of excitement, that's on you. 

I'm comparing this game to something like Defiance (even though Firefall is probably aiming for an EVE/Farcry blend) , and people are voting for Deviance on here as a popular game? I don't know, Firefall is by far more advanced , open and exiting than Defiance (which is a $60 game mind you) So yea, i disagree, i don't see what's so expensive in the cash shop? You don't need to buy anything there. They give you like 5 battleframes and there's like a bunch more that you can buy OR grind for , i don't see that being unfair considering there's no upfront costs. Marvel Heroes and Neverwinter (to name some recent F2P games) are much more expensive than this.

 

 

  EvilMix

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 252

6/13/13 3:46:49 AM#3

I played this game in the very first stage of closed beta, and a played it a few more times after that. The main turn off for me is very little character customization (which may be changed now), but it was very horrible back then. There were very few quests, ect.

 

But that's what I expected when playing a game first entering CBT, I liked the game a good bit actually, and played it non stop for a few days. I think this game will do well as long as they don't do what Neverwinter did, I easily spent $700+ on their cash shop crap, got the founder's pack, hit max level and quit and uninstalled the game lol.

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4305

6/13/13 3:55:25 AM#4
Originally posted by templarx

Sorry , nope.

I suggest you go play Defiance and Marvel Heroes and then return to Firefall and see if you feel the same. I honestly don't expect super customer support in a game that is in CLOSED BETA.  

 

As for "nothing exciting" that's the nature of a Sandbox, it's as exciting as you make it. If you're going to thump/mine right outside the main city all day long and moan about grind and lack of excitement, that's on you.

This game si not a sandbox.. or at least a few months ago it was not a sandbox...

I'm comparing this game to something like Defiance (even though Firefall is probably aiming for an EVE/Farcry blend) , and people are voting for Deviance on here as a popular game? I don't know, Firefall is by far more advanced , open and exiting than Defiance (which is a $60 game mind you) So yea, i disagree, i don't see what's so expensive in the cash shop? You don't need to buy anything there. They give you like 5 battleframes and there's like a bunch more that you can buy OR grind for , i don't see that being unfair considering there's no upfront costs. Marvel Heroes and Neverwinter (to name some recent F2P games) are much more expensive than this.

 I guess you can compare this to defiance, as both are tpmmos.. I think Deficances is slightly better than this but they are both very average games.

 

At the end of the day the game is nothnig special but its free so you cant really complain about that.. plus its in beta still so of course customer service wont be 100%..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4305

6/13/13 3:57:06 AM#5
Originally posted by EvilMix

But that's what I expected when playing a game first entering CBT, I liked the game a good bit actually, and played it non stop for a few days. I think this game will do well as long as they don't do what Neverwinter did, I easily spent $700+ on their cash shop crap, got the founder's pack, hit max level and quit and uninstalled the game lol.

LOL what you spent $700 on neverwinter... i think you need to find somthing better to do with your money... even if you are rich.. maybe see someone about your issues as well LOL..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  faxnadu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/08
Posts: 956

6/13/13 3:59:42 AM#6

i feel you OP. i was in with very first stage with firefall and i always give fair shot every game i try . but no matter how hard i tried this one lacks so much what it could have been. it succeeded on one thing showing to future devs making fps based mmos how NOT to do it. 

 

character custom very poor, endless thumping with random dudes aaaaand? thats about it. there is only so much one can explore new world and its beaut.

  templarx

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/05
Posts: 181

6/14/13 7:07:56 AM#7
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by templarx

Sorry , nope.

I suggest you go play Defiance and Marvel Heroes and then return to Firefall and see if you feel the same. I honestly don't expect super customer support in a game that is in CLOSED BETA.  

 

As for "nothing exciting" that's the nature of a Sandbox, it's as exciting as you make it. If you're going to thump/mine right outside the main city all day long and moan about grind and lack of excitement, that's on you.

This game si not a sandbox.. or at least a few months ago it was not a sandbox...

I'm comparing this game to something like Defiance (even though Firefall is probably aiming for an EVE/Farcry blend) , and people are voting for Deviance on here as a popular game? I don't know, Firefall is by far more advanced , open and exiting than Defiance (which is a $60 game mind you) So yea, i disagree, i don't see what's so expensive in the cash shop? You don't need to buy anything there. They give you like 5 battleframes and there's like a bunch more that you can buy OR grind for , i don't see that being unfair considering there's no upfront costs. Marvel Heroes and Neverwinter (to name some recent F2P games) are much more expensive than this.

 I guess you can compare this to defiance, as both are tpmmos.. I think Deficances is slightly better than this but they are both very average games.

 

At the end of the day the game is nothnig special but its free so you cant really complain about that.. plus its in beta still so of course customer service wont be 100%..

 

Hmm, so why wouldn't this be a sandbox? It has a similar structure as EVE , are you saying EVE is not a sandbox? I agree that Firefall does not have as many options as EVE, but there's nothing in Firefall that you can't do from the start and the choice is yours as to what you want to do. Battleframes can be seen as "Ships" , and some are better at specific things than others, you can mod and improve any battleframe via crafting/missions/mining , similar to how you would mod your EVE ship.  

Yes, there is not a Marketplace/Trading , but it's right there on their milestone map to be added. So let's compare, a normal player in EVE, what will he do? He might decide to MINE, and sell the ore on the market, in turn, making money to buy a better ship to mine better. He will also at the same time upgrade his skills. 

Another EVE player might decide to run missions (killing pirates) and get a reward via that to buy a better ship to fight more difficult missions. 

Another EVE player might decide to only trade, he might carry around goods between stations or simply play the market (buy low, sell high).

This is how Firefall works too? There is no quest chain or story that "ends" . There is no level cap, in fact there is no levels. Defiance is linear, got a story that ends, and without more quest content there isn't a reason to do anything.

Obviously Firefall needs alot of work to be as deep as EVE, but EVE got like 10 years headstart. So yes, Firefall need more progression depth (this can be on the battleframes OR the character itself) , more "missions" , larger map, missions/tasks that can't be done without some form of progression, marketplace , but that does not make it any less a sandbox..... 

 

 

...keep in mind i don't consider having or needing PvP as a "sandbox" feature. Just because a game has open world PvP like Darkfall , does NOT make it a sandbox. The lack thereof does not make it any less sandbox either. Minecraft is also a sandbox, so i think you might want to explain what your idea of a sandbox is.

 

 

 

 

 

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2642

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

6/14/13 7:12:31 AM#8
With games like Destiny and The Division just around the corner and Defiance already being released, I think they missed their window of opportunity.
  CyricV

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 4

6/14/13 4:58:01 PM#9

Most people don't seem to understand how this game is being made. We as consumers are actually privy to the creation of the game. The things we are seeing now, they are part of the game development process that usually never sees the light of day. Red5 is still scrapping whole systems and working on the fundamental mechanics of their game while we actually get to play it. This very forward thinking of them. If development procedures like this become common practice, it will mean more flexibility in design coupled with a closeness to and communication with the player. This means games that are controlled by what players want, not publishers.

 

Firefall does currently suffer from a lack of content, but we aren't to that phase of development yet. I know this process is scary and new, but if you become disillusioned with Firefall take a break and come back in a couple months. It will be a new and better game.

  Digirono

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/11
Posts: 87

6/14/13 5:08:10 PM#10
Originally posted by CyricV

Most people don't seem to understand how this game is being made. We as consumers are actually privy to the creation of the game. The things we are seeing now, they are part of the game development process that usually never sees the light of day. Red5 is still scrapping whole systems and working on the fundamental mechanics of their game while we actually get to play it. This very forward thinking of them. If development procedures like this become common practice, it will mean more flexibility in design coupled with a closeness to and communication with the player. This means games that are controlled by what players want, not publishers.

 

Firefall does currently suffer from a lack of content, but we aren't to that phase of development yet. I know this process is scary and new, but if you become disillusioned with Firefall take a break and come back in a couple months. It will be a new and better game.

This, basically. It's still in early production, the .6 update was just released(A month or so ago), so you could say that this game is "40% away from being done", or 60% complete. Red5's customer support is amazing, unlike a lot of other companies they "Care about their player-base". The Devs don't just ignore all player-feedback, they take the time to read through and make changes if needed. Pretty much all the time they talk with their community on the forums, take ideas from them, make changes here and there based off of the feedback, ect. 

 

To compare it to Defiance(From other posts) is stupid. Defiance is a linear-MMOTPS with a set-quest track, no real shooter mechanics(Other than you have a gun and it shoots bullets), and a definite "End-game". This is an MMOTPS with an overall storyline, and for the most part a really good shooter with sandbox components in it. Unlike Defiance this doesn't need to tell you where to go(And also how to aim properly) and what to do.

 

The only complaint is that they're going into Open beta way too early, but other than that this game is pretty awesome. Not as much content as other games at the moment, but even then it's still more fun than most games(Of the shooter variety, can't compare it to a Fantasy game, ect..that just wouldn't be right.)

  CyricV

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 4

6/14/13 5:21:53 PM#11
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. Red5 has the most responsive and personal customer support of any game I've played. I think that's in part due to the player base being small, so there is always a dev around to talk with you.
  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5827

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

6/14/13 5:27:48 PM#12
i love both Firefall and Defiance. Everytime i log in to Firefall, after a few minutes i go back to Defiance because Firefall lacks content. Ares mission are ok but not enough. Thumping gets repetitive after doing 3 or 4. Chosen invasions are cool but is not enough to spend days doing just that. I will definitelly be back to Firefall when they add more varied content to keep me in game.

  ichihaifu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/23/10
Posts: 257

6/14/13 5:36:15 PM#13

Firefall is not a finished product, it wont be finished product when it hits open beta either.

Once in a while I feel like I've misplaced my 100€ support on them (founders pack), but I still want to believe they can pull this off. Right now we have frameworks of complete product, crafting is being worked on, PvE is leaps and bounds what it was when I first entered the game (at one point, there was NOTHING but thumping and shooting 2 different types of mobs), battleframes have been overdone couple of times and their systems more than twice. The game lacks content because the framework is still being polished and worked on.

As has been said we're in the DEVELOPMENT PHASE that usually doesnt see daylight and I've voiced my opinions against going to open beta so early publicly. Unfortunately publishers requests cannot be ignored. You cannot put blame on their development team if they come to open beta so early, especially singe the team is relatively small.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/14/13 5:42:28 PM#14
Originally posted by templarx

Hmm, so why wouldn't this be a sandbox? It has a similar structure as EVE , are you saying EVE is not a sandbox? I agree that Firefall does not have as many options as EVE, but there's nothing in Firefall that you can't do from the start and the choice is yours as to what you want to do. Battleframes can be seen as "Ships" , and some are better at specific things than others, you can mod and improve any battleframe via crafting/missions/mining , similar to how you would mod your EVE ship.  

Yes, there is not a Marketplace/Trading , but it's right there on their milestone map to be added. So let's compare, a normal player in EVE, what will he do? He might decide to MINE, and sell the ore on the market, in turn, making money to buy a better ship to mine better. He will also at the same time upgrade his skills. 

Another EVE player might decide to run missions (killing pirates) and get a reward via that to buy a better ship to fight more difficult missions. 

Another EVE player might decide to only trade, he might carry around goods between stations or simply play the market (buy low, sell high).

 This is how Firefall works too?

 

1) By your description of EVE, this game is not only like EVE but like 90% of the MMOs ever created.

2) If their goal is to make a sandbox style game or anything remotely like EVE, that message doesn't seem well communicated through either their site or through the gameplay. Do you have as link to info on territory control or player owned structures? Under the Competition section on their site it just has "Coming Shortly". Would really like to read more about that stuff as both my son and I enjoy Firefall in its current incarnation. Conquering and building would be a major plus above that.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3584

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

6/14/13 5:56:46 PM#15

The main problem that many people forget, is that this is a REAL beta, and not a promo meant to pump up hype.  That means there is going to be limited content, many bugs to be reported, documented and fixed, and all of the rest that goes with beta.

They are trying a different approach in their development, and only time will tell if it works out.  I've been in for about a year and a half. In that time I've enjoyed many aspects of the game (mainly).  But anyone looking for a nearly complete experience, doesn't understand how Red5 is running this process.

Even with all of the ups and downs, I'm still hopeful that the game will work out, and continue on and become even more enjoyable over time.  Open beta is July 9th, and then everyone can get a better sense of the game.

  Karahandras

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1669

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/14/13 8:12:56 PM#16

Firefall is very heavy on the grind atm(and group only, you aren't going to get anywhere doing it solo).

It isn't in the 'early stages' of development. It's been in closed beta for what, three years now.

They have been in 'that stage of development' where they should be adding content for about a year now(according to their development graph anyway).  Instead they keep changing thier minds about what game they want to make(rather than adding content).

It is not a 'real beta'.  One of the reasons for their financial woes is that they've been tryin to hype/advertise/sell the beta so much(just not to much sucess).

It isn't a sandbox, but then it isn't a theme park really either.  it is very small and could go either way but you'l have to see how and what content they add(if they ever do).

Could be worth trying, but wouldn't recomend paying as you'll run out of things to do fast and there's no guarantee that they won't change their minds again and try and make the game into something else, wiping out all your work in the process.

TBH the only thing i came away with from my time in cb is the feeling that red5 don't really know what they are doing.  If they had a clear game design and got on with making it rather than pandering to fanboys and trying to hype, well not a lot really,  the game would have been released around 2 1/2 years ago and could be doing quite well now.  But they don't and they didn't.

 

 

  senti02

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/08
Posts: 91

6/14/13 8:17:07 PM#17
Originally posted by Digirono
Originally posted by CyricV

Most people don't seem to understand how this game is being made. We as consumers are actually privy to the creation of the game. The things we are seeing now, they are part of the game development process that usually never sees the light of day. Red5 is still scrapping whole systems and working on the fundamental mechanics of their game while we actually get to play it. This very forward thinking of them. If development procedures like this become common practice, it will mean more flexibility in design coupled with a closeness to and communication with the player. This means games that are controlled by what players want, not publishers.

 

Firefall does currently suffer from a lack of content, but we aren't to that phase of development yet. I know this process is scary and new, but if you become disillusioned with Firefall take a break and come back in a couple months. It will be a new and better game.

This, basically. It's still in early production, the .6 update was just released(A month or so ago), so you could say that this game is "40% away from being done", or 60% complete. Red5's customer support is amazing, unlike a lot of other companies they "Care about their player-base". The Devs don't just ignore all player-feedback, they take the time to read through and make changes if needed. Pretty much all the time they talk with their community on the forums, take ideas from them, make changes here and there based off of the feedback, ect. 

 

To compare it to Defiance(From other posts) is stupid. Defiance is a linear-MMOTPS with a set-quest track, no real shooter mechanics(Other than you have a gun and it shoots bullets), and a definite "End-game". This is an MMOTPS with an overall storyline, and for the most part a really good shooter with sandbox components in it. Unlike Defiance this doesn't need to tell you where to go(And also how to aim properly) and what to do.

 

The only complaint is that they're going into Open beta way too early, but other than that this game is pretty awesome. Not as much content as other games at the moment, but even then it's still more fun than most games(Of the shooter variety, can't compare it to a Fantasy game, ect..that just wouldn't be right.)

then i will wait when its ready and fun to play..ty :)

  wormed

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 397

6/14/13 9:18:21 PM#18
Originally posted by CyricV

Most people don't seem to understand how this game is being made. We as consumers are actually privy to the creation of the game. The things we are seeing now, they are part of the game development process that usually never sees the light of day. Red5 is still scrapping whole systems and working on the fundamental mechanics of their game while we actually get to play it. This very forward thinking of them. If development procedures like this become common practice, it will mean more flexibility in design coupled with a closeness to and communication with the player. This means games that are controlled by what players want, not publishers.

 

Firefall does currently suffer from a lack of content, but we aren't to that phase of development yet. I know this process is scary and new, but if you become disillusioned with Firefall take a break and come back in a couple months. It will be a new and better game.

2 posts. Account created to defend Firefall, of all games.

Hi Grummz.

P.S. Firefall is a stink-hole of a game.

  CyricV

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 4

6/15/13 1:35:51 AM#19

 

 

Originally posted by ichihaifu

...As has been said we're in the DEVELOPMENT PHASE that usually doesnt see daylight and I've voiced my opinions against going to open beta so early publicly. Unfortunately publishers requests cannot be ignored....

Unfortunately I think they have painted themselves into a corner. They are doing something new and risky: the game they are developing needs to generate some of it's own content. I think most of their pre-funding comes from The9, but that's running out and Firefall will need to stand on it's own legs soon despite being an unfinished product. They are essentially selling us a promise, we are basically investors (if you have founded that is) in enjoyment, and this is high risk stock. It's scary and sometimes distasteful to people because they are really, desprately trying to sell a work-in-progress that they swear will get better and we cant help but be untrusting.

Originally posted by Karahandras

It isn't in the 'early stages' of development. It's been in closed beta for what, three years now.

They have been in 'that stage of development' where they should be adding content for about a year now(according to their development graph anyway). Instead they keep changing thier minds about what game they want to make(rather than adding content).

It is not a 'real beta'. One of the reasons for their financial woes is that they've been tryin to hype/advertise/sell the beta so much(just not to much sucess)....

This is a very common missconception largy due to Firefalls need to generate it's own income. I think this is the biggest problem with Red5's development strategy. People are (rightly) afraid to commit any money to something that is clearly unfinished when we are used to buying a finished product off the shelf. It's important to remember that Red5 is a new company, they have been struggling over the past seven years to both exist and to create Firefall. They've almost gone bankrupt twice, and they started with only a small team. It's quite possible they've bitten off more than they can chew. They are really trying to make Firefall feel like a playable complete experience even though it's clearly not yet, nor is it supposed to be.

Originally posted by wormed

2 posts. Account created to defend Firefall, of all games...

Damn straingt! Also, three posts now, thank you very much! It's clear this game needs some defense for it's short commings as there are many people confused about Red5's very confusing development procedure. I think this is a time of experementation and change in the gaming industry due to the collaps of the triple A model. I reccommend perusing this article from Polygon. It's a bit dated and a little number heavy, but it's a good read.

 

Edit: I just figured out who Grummz was. I'm not actually that guy.

  templarx

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/05
Posts: 181

6/16/13 2:30:50 AM#20

Well here's next  week's patch notes for those that cares. I treat this game as an indie title, and anyone that expects EA/Blizzard./SOE type of game out of this is living in a dreamworld.

 

http://www.rawr4firefall.com/?q=patch-news-fflive-info

[quote]

Until we have the exact patch notes here is what was announced on Firefall today!

  • trading marketplace also being added in next patch
  • research tree being added, no longer have access to everything
  • research requires time to do an R&D job and crystite
  • progression is being changed to broad resource groups rather than specific resources
  • loot drops will have gear added
  • drops will be only available to specific players or teams from now on
  • need/greed system not yet implemented
  • thumper waves changed to give more mini-boss encounters and less swarms
  • new mini-worlds called Melding bubbles will require players to craft new arc-portal devices to acccess
  • Melding bubbles will have unique resources which are better than in New Eden
[/quote]
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