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News & Features Discussion  » [Interview] Warhammer 40.000: Eternal Crusade: There Is Only WAR

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169 posts found
  Stumperson

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 12

6/13/13 10:21:46 PM#121
yeah...sadly the pay model is already out...it's over unless they make a drastic change which I doubt. 
  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3805

RIP City of Heroes!

6/13/13 10:38:48 PM#122
Originally posted by akathos

I'm a massive fan of the Warhammer franchise, as well as WarHammer: 40k .

I can kind of understand the idea of the orks being FTP lore wise to generate higher numbers, but it's a terrible idea in terms of player satisfaction. I approve of a previous post about giving the lower ranks to FTP players too, scouts and grunts etc. To offer some diversity but not offering the full experience of the more advanced players, where inevitably the fun will be. Maybe even possibly giving at least one extra race to try for FTP's. 

I'm concerned that on top of the restrictions to orks alone,  that we have to further pay per race.... now of course costs could ease my concern slightly, if it was £10, $10 per race. and providing it was a permanent unlock, I think that's justifiable. but if we're looking at anything over $15- per race... then we will be looking at a greed based developer team, and there's no way im getting involved . 

Cosmetics are a given for any FTP model. Weapon skins, armor's ship addons etc...

Right now, they are calling this a premium FTP model. I disagree, right now this is pay over and over to get stronger model.

 

If this was premium FTP, I'd expect something similar to,  Free, Silver, Gold memberships.

Free- limited  

Silver - Average sub price-  Upgraded  - Some Extras (maybe not most popular races/classes)

Gold - Full Sub Price - Full Access + Extra Benefits (Discounted CS, exclusive skins, and or advanced classes)

I am not a FTP hater I expect FTP players to be restricted !  So don't freak out on me over that, I just think right now, they are screaming greed and they will scare people away.

 

It all comes down to prices.... I'm negatively cautious of their direction. FTP is fine, but is dangerously hard to get right. 

 

 

 The pricing sounds like warhammer milking it.  Did you really play tabletop?

  Xsorus

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 174

6/13/13 10:48:54 PM#123

personally I think the f2p ork boyz idea is fucking genius

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos

Guild Wars 2 Ranger Video's

  Piestub

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/09
Posts: 2

6/13/13 11:11:56 PM#124
This game could be cool if they picked a better SM chapter.  Honestly, it should have been the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors.  Have the supposedly best space marine chapter at defending things (Fists) against the siege masters (Iron Warriors).  Something abut an unstoppable force and an immovable object comes to mind.  As for the other races i feel that most people will be playing it to be marines even though Elder and Orks are popular.  These two just don't have the fan following as the Space Marines.  I would have preferred to play a Tyranid over the other two non-marine races available.  Optimal race setup IMO should have been having Imperial Fists (playable), Eldar (Playable), vs Iron Warriors (playable), Dark Eldar (playable).  After that you could have the Tyranids and Orks be NPC factions that more or less are there to keep the balance by attacking the races that are becoming too strong.
  Stenchburg

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/13
Posts: 2

6/14/13 12:59:06 AM#125

I have a few points to make to the people complaining about pay to win.  

 

1.  You are assuming there will be equal sides in a battle.

In most shooters, its 32 vs 32 or 8v8 or whatever.  The reason you need a balanced game in those instances, is because you have the same number of people.  If one side is more powerful, it will be immediately evident.  

But!  if there is no limit on the number of players, its more likely that the orks will outnumber the marines.  This will strike a sort of balance.  

2.  If noone plays the orks, then it doesnt matter anyway.  

If noone plays the orks, and its commonly held to be "unfair"  and  pay to win, then all that remains will be pay to win players.  And theyll be balanced.   

 

making orks the free to play faction is genius, and if noone likes it, its a non-issue anyway, since all that will remain are pay to win characters.  

But really, lots of people WILL play orks, and theyll outnumber paying characters by alot more than 5 most likely.  So if anything, the marines will lose.  

  proteinstar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/14/13
Posts: 1

6/14/13 3:13:07 AM#126

This sounds exactly like what I've been hoping for in a 40k mmo.  They should make the Imperial Guard FTP as well, at least for the basic troopers, maybe let em play as a ratling squadmate.  These guys are going to make a fortune off of me.  Thing about all the crazy DLC and microtransaction stuff they can dream up.  Space marine chapters, all sorts of sweet 40k litanies and quotations your space marine can bellow while smashing orks to paste.  

Just take my money now.

  Stumperson

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 12

6/14/13 4:07:07 AM#127

The lack of customization is another nail in the coffin already. Pretty much every Warhammer game has pretty much given you the ability to customize and said have fun...to strangely LOCK you to one chapter is annoying and really stupid. They talk about how "so for the most part the players ARE the content", how do they make the content if you don't let them be able to customize and restrict them SO much.

The other nail is the obviously BLATANT P2W in every literal sense. AND THEY DIDN"T EVEN TRY TO HIDE THAT FACT. 

 
  Stumperson

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 12

6/14/13 4:07:59 AM#128

It's already flawed from the start.

 

People who don't want to play orks will obviously buy their way to the faction of their choice...I.E. Space Marine. The ratios will be DESTROYED from day one. When you give one faction the OBVIOUS advantage over the other...people will PLAY THAT FACTION. It's not rocket science...plus people want to play the Space Marines or Chaos or Eldar. While the idea of F2P Orks was great and all it was great on paper not in  practice. People will buy themselves out of Orks and into the most powerful factions and in the end orks will be the obvious underpowered and pointless race and will die out. 

  Stenchburg

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/13
Posts: 2

6/14/13 4:20:25 AM#129
I don't really need extra chapters. One mistake these games make is allowing players to dye their armor resulting in lots of ugly colors running around.

By keeping one chapter, you can avoid the eyesore of a million chapters running around in a crazy cavalcade of colors.

I prefer the military look of uniforms anyway
  WolfHaart

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/10
Posts: 216

"Why are humans destined to meet those who will become important to them?"

6/14/13 4:25:22 AM#130

Personally I got thrilled when I heard it was going to be Dark Angels, as I'm a DA boy.

 

Moving on...

 

 

2 years is a long time, and much can happen during that. So I would not se surprised to see other chapter later on.

And like many others, I'm not too keen on this F2P model where if you want to play anything else then Orkz you have to cahs up.

Although, since it's a F2P, I hope they speak of a 1time payment. If so, I cant see why all the fuss.

As long as I dont need to pay monthly to unlock a race it's better then a subscription and I can save money in the long run.

 

Well, those are few of my personal thoughts.

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3207

Veni, Vidi, Converti

6/14/13 9:42:51 AM#131
Originally posted by shantideva
Originally posted by kraiz
DAMNIT! Give me Tau now!
 

hopefully they will be npc cannonfodder like Tyranids and I suspect Necrons =)

I think this is part of their business strategy: 4 main races to launch for the core game system. If the numbers and legs warrant it they'll then add more WH40K Armies to expand the game as it'll be modular in terms of expanding and rotating battle grounds. Good plan. And Tau are awesome sauce. 'Nids would be a good Premium account: People would pay good money for them.

  garrett

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/30/09
Posts: 241

6/14/13 10:25:29 AM#132

They do have access to all of the armies, these are just going to be the ones they launch with. Also, keep in mind that almost every MMO coming out in the future will be some form of FTP / Premium. That is the world we now live in and it is not changing any time soon. 

The combat designs in theory are some of the best I have heard of for a 40K MMO yet. Plus the fact that it is planetary control PvP with some PVE thrown in is really awesome. 

The core dev team are all table top players. 

Everyone is skeptical, but....I think 40K is finally in good hands for MMO development. 

  Gudrunix

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 147

6/14/13 1:46:22 PM#133

I am cautiously optimistic.  Interestingly, the model they are proposing is actually very similar to what I had hoped they would do with the WH40k world; PvP centered, distinct classes, strategic objectives, orders and chains of command, etc., etc.

What I really like about what they are doing is putting the essence of the WH40k world ahead of the stock MMORPG model.  To the extent that the MMORPG model works with WH40k they are keeping it, but to the extent that it doesn't, they are dropping it.  That shows a real commitment to the world they are building, which I see as a very positive sign.

One of the most dramatic decisions along those lines is the decision that not all classes will be equal.  In the WH40k world, they aren't.  Space Marines are far more powerful than Orks, that's how the WH world works.  Instead of sticking to the standard MMORPG script (all classes must be perfectly equal!) they started with the WH40k world (Space Marines easily dominate Orks, at least in small numbers), and then tried to figure out how to make it work.

What I find to be astonishing, though, is the reactions here.  So many people on these forums claim to be looking for that breakout game that will give up the worn-out WoW model, yet the second a new game deviates from the formula, they complain bitterly.  Whether it's the PvP orientation, or a business model that's anything other than a subscription, or an innovative approach to class design, if it deviates from the formula, the complain long and loud.

If you don't start off the game as a level 1 damage-dealer or tank or healer with a 3 DPS sword (whoops, 3 DPS blaster!) and a quest to kill 10 giant rats (whoops, giant *space* rats!), they're not interested.  As if there aren't enough reskinned WoW clones out there already . . .

Would I rather play a game with a strong WH40k flavor - even if it means that there are challenges, like most of the content being PvP, classes not being balanced, etc. - than one that looks suspiciously like an outer-space themed WoW reskin?  Yes.  And I hope I'm not the only one.

  Gudrunix

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 147

6/14/13 1:58:48 PM#134
Originally posted by achesoma
There is so much fail for this concept it's absurd. This developer truly doesn't understand the gamer mentality. Five Orks to kill one marine?!  Lol, yeah...that'll work out well. Free or not, no one wants to feel weak or gimped. 

Yes, that's the thinking in every other MMORPG up to this point:  everyone is the hero, the champion, the superhero.  Everyone wants to feel powerful, right?

The problem with that is that when everyone is powerful, no one is.  When everyone in the game has the 5000 DPS Sword of the Thousand Truths, no one is special or unique or powerful.

The way you make players feel powerful is by making a lot of players feel un-powerful.  I know that that's counter-intuitive, but that's how it works.

Making everyone powerful also leads to total absurdities that have a ruinous effect on lore and role-playing.  If a Snotling were an even match for a Space Marine, it wouldn't be Warhammer any more, it would just be a re-skinned World of Warcraft, where goblins wielding daggers are just as powerful as ancient elves in legendary magical armor because, well, the game designers didn't want to hurt the feelings of players who wanted to play goblins.  *Everyone* is special and *everyone* is super-powerful, which of course means that no one is.

One postscript:  I agree with other people here that they should add other "cannon fodder" roles for F2P players.  Guardsmen and Heretics would be great - and as weak as they are, I honestly think they would be fun to play.  But no Scouts, please - even the weakest Space Marine Scout is a whole lot more powerful than any Guardsman and most Orks.

  Stumperson

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 12

6/14/13 2:21:57 PM#135
Originally posted by garrett

They do have access to all of the armies, these are just going to be the ones they launch with. Also, keep in mind that almost every MMO coming out in the future will be some form of FTP / Premium. That is the world we now live in and it is not changing any time soon. 

The combat designs in theory are some of the best I have heard of for a 40K MMO yet. Plus the fact that it is planetary control PvP with some PVE thrown in is really awesome. 

The core dev team are all table top players. 

Everyone is skeptical, but....I think 40K is finally in good hands for MMO development. 

Sorry then I don't want the future. F2P games have some of the most scumbag systems of P2W in them to to the point it's not even F2P anymore it's pay2relevance. Not to mention the trash bag community that is spawned thanks to the F2P game. Most other games that are B2P or P2P are pretty good communities...with F2P it's all the mouth breathers and LE MAY MAY spammers trying to be cool. They blatant preached you have to spend money to get P2W mechanics I.E. Space Marines which can some how take on 5 Orks at once...yeah 5 Nobs versus on Space Marine that just bought his armor. Ok.... Sorry but something tells me you're just trying to fan boy defend this game.  This is nothing but a small company with a big license. 

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

6/14/13 2:22:00 PM#136

It is actualy an interesting dynamic they've hit upon. In a generic PvP game the model could well be classified as "P2W". However, in this particular case it actualy fits the IP very well. Low level Orkz are not supposed to be anywhere near the equal of a Space Marine (or Eldar) on an individual basis....it's only in superior numbers that they achieve parity. So that aspect works. The open question is will it be fun enough for non-paying players to play with this built in inbalance to give the game a try and possibly consider upgrading to a more effective character-type?  If not, the game could have a problem.

They also might consider putting in the IG on the Imperial side as they follow a similar dynamic for individual troopers (don't know what they'd do for the Eldar).....that way at least the non-paying could have some opponents they could fight 1 on 1 with some level of parity.

  Stumperson

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/13
Posts: 12

6/14/13 2:25:33 PM#137
Originally posted by Stenchburg
I don't really need extra chapters. One mistake these games make is allowing players to dye their armor resulting in lots of ugly colors running around.

By keeping one chapter, you can avoid the eyesore of a million chapters running around in a crazy cavalcade of colors.

I prefer the military look of uniforms anyway
 

 

Then give people Chapters to choice from. These idiots preached "players are the content" yet they restrict them so much. Basically the content is restricted. Plus I don't wanna be a Dark Angel...why can't I pick my chapter? LIKE MOST OTHER WARHAMMER GAMES ALLOWED! 

  TotemicDruid

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/13
Posts: 2

6/14/13 3:51:57 PM#138
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by TotemicDruid

Guys I am hopeful! A game which appears to mirror Planetside, but with the Rich Lore of WH:40K is a fantastic idea, plus it has the added PvE content. 

With regards to the F2P model, people have to get that life isnt free and things cost money. Do they seriously think the programmers are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts??

A single Ork couldnt take a Space Marine, so lets not get into the idiotic calls for balance, simply because you dont want to sub/pay for a better gaming experience. If any of you know even the slightest bit about the lore of this game its that balance is there, so I dont want to see something similar to "Dude! The emperor  just got wasted by an Eldar Guardian"".

I played SWG for years and even up to its end, to make way for SWTOR, it never went free to play; which is something SWTOR didnt last 6 months doing. In short if its good pay for it, if you arent that interested, but enjoy a zerg here and there, take advantage of the F2P model?

With that said I agree with the above comments that limiting the F2P race may be a tad restrictive. Of the races indicated Imperial Guard, Guardians and Heretics are all an obvious F2P meat-shield replacement :)

Dude! The emperor just got wasted by an Eldar Guardian!

 

No, but seriously, if you actually think that barring certain classes in what they're calling a "F2P game" is acceptable then I don't think you understand the difference between F2P and P2P. The company either needs to have a balanced F2P with a fair cash shop (cosmetics only) or it needs to be subscription based.

 

This thing with being on the rails with what their pay model really is, isn't acceptable.

 

I know the difference between P2P and F2P but above all the trap of P2W, which is a BIG no no. What I am saying is that this isnt a balanced universe, and nor should someone who is basically putting nothing into the game have a balanced character from the start; and I stress the word "start".

 

If a F2P player puts the time and graft into the game in order to unlock the entirety of what the game has to offer, by achieving targets, doing quests or generating in game currency then that is what F2P is to me; the persons time in game is what they are putting into it ie they allow for a more active community and that is just as important to a games survival as money.

 

IMO You either earn it or pay for it, you don't say I have no intention of supporting this game in anyway but give me balance because I want to be AWESOME!!  Give me everything because the player paying £9.99 (just a guess) a month shouldn't get more than me because I am AWESOME!! My Guardian just killed the Emperor with F2P starter gear because the game Balance is AWESOME!! Nah I don't think so, let me and a gazillion of my F2P Ork Boyz zerg everywhere!!  Let me and my F2P troop put up a wall of Las-fire up to stop those Chaos space marines.........wait whats this I ve been playing for only half an hour and I ve unlocked Space Marine Scout....sweet!

  Gudrunix

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 147

6/14/13 4:46:47 PM#139

With respect to the payment models, there's a huge difference between payment models, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here, as we don't yet know the full details of the payment system they are planning on using.

The real problem - and I hope most people agree - is a system where you have to constantly dump money into the game to be competitive, and where the more money you dump, the more competitive you are.  That's a terrible system, and I don't think anybody here wants to see that.

But that's not what I'm seeing.  As far as I can tell, it's a one-time payment per chunk of content being unlocked.  But - again, as far as I can tell - everyone who's paid to unlock given content, say the Space Marine faction, is going to be on an equal footing, and won't need to keep dumping money into the game on an ongoing basis to be competitive.

How different is this from a system where you have to pay to unlock content - e.g., in World of Warcraft, where the free version is limited in the number of levels, and you have to pay separately to unlock levels 21-60 (vanilla), 61-70 (Burning Crusade), etc., etc.? (Not sure if I have the levels right, but that's the idea.)  I don't think anybody sees that as "P2W", because it's understood that once you pay to unlock the content, you have full access to it, and don't need to keep constantly dumping money into the game to be competitive (well, other than the monthly subscription, of course!).

  User Deleted
6/14/13 7:10:59 PM#140

I really like what I read. Can't say that I'm surprised by the absence of my favorite armies (Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar) but hopefully they make a player-controlled appearance down the road.

 

My only beef with this is the Tyrannids. At first glance, they seem to be intended as a possible realm population balancing mechanic. That's a good thing, but as I read more and saw "dungeons" I wanted to shoot myself in the foot. Just focus on PvP, drop the ****ing PvE. 

 

"...the grim nightmare of the far future, where there is only war..."  I was really glad that the person speaking for the game remembered that quote.

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