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Rift

Rift 

General Discussion  » Rift now pay to win

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226 posts found
  bestever

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 598

6/12/13 4:04:34 PM#21
Originally posted by Hatefull

Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid.  I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion?  what happened there?  I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.

Why sell gear at all?  It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps.  But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.  

Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.

Its a waste of money when I could jump on right now and craft better raiding gear.

  Silentstorm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/29/06
Posts: 1126

6/12/13 4:08:10 PM#22
Actually you can buy boxes with a (Chance) to get good relic gear. I rather not gamble like that who knows how low the chance is for that. But I do rather not like the whole chance to even get a relic in the shop it makes me a little like wtf.
  Arakazi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 842

6/12/13 4:09:33 PM#23
Five years ago most of you would be appalled at even the suggestion of gear being sold on a AAA game. Soon people will be able to buy a max level toon and all the best gear. You might laugh, but it will happen.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 748

Your tears make my gun work better.

 
OP  6/12/13 4:15:22 PM#24
Originally posted by Arakazi
Five years ago most of you would be appalled at even the suggestion of gear being sold on a AAA game. Soon people will be able to buy a max level toon and all the best gear. You might laugh, but it will happen.

Good point Arakazi - gaming is getting so easy mode any more, just buy your way to win is what it seems like.  Sheesh buy gear, get a mod to tell what skill to use and where to stand in a dungeon...Anyway, yeah it sucks I was having fun, this though, half my guild is quitting it looks like.  Not that it matters, I am sure they will replace us quickly with over night 60's and easy to get kit, but it is still a bit of a let down.  

Oh Well, on to the next thing lol.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2388

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

6/12/13 4:15:43 PM#25

Sometimes I wonder if the people that come to this site and moan and gripe about "pay to win" and this and that are actually just upset because they didn't just buy the stuff in the first place.

The effect this has overall seems so small I don't see why we need thread after thread of such and such game being pay to win...

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 365

6/12/13 4:23:15 PM#26
I would have tried this game if it was hybrid payment model, I wont touch anything f2p because they are all p2w, anything other then cosmetic stuff when buying is all pay to win. So if I can make a potion that gives me 100 hp per use or buy one that gives me 1000 then there really isnt a choice is there. People can try to justify all they want that F2P isn't P2W but they are either fooling them self or enjoying ability to play with their wallet, which isn't a bad thing just a very corrupt and unethical way of playing most MMOs and rift fits in this category.

  faiyo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/09/13
Posts: 125

6/12/13 4:23:30 PM#27

The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent.  Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.

 

But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.

  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1109

6/12/13 4:25:30 PM#28
I don't see what the big deal is.  It isn't "pay 2 win" in my opinion.  If the only way to obtain the best gear in the game was to buy it with cash, then I would call it a "pay 2 win" game.  If the best gear in the game was purchasable with cash, but obtainable through a very long grind, I still consider that "pay 2 win" but I think that is slightly more acceptable.  Rift doesn't let you buy the best gear in the game with cash.  I think it is a good idea for them to give people a faster path to raiding with their friends instead of attempting to do content that nobody else is interested in doing.  
  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1109

6/12/13 4:26:47 PM#29
Originally posted by faiyo

The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent.  Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.

 

But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.

Don't forget about Runes of Magic's end-game.  I know people who spent thousands of dollars on that game.

  Silentstorm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/29/06
Posts: 1126

6/12/13 4:30:29 PM#30
I'm more concerned on with loyalty not even working but the shop does lol.........
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4630

6/12/13 4:43:13 PM#31

this will be the 3rd time I have made this exact comparison in as many weeks.

In GW2, I can roll a brand new character, I can then visit a site such as GW2 spidy and get the most cost effective guides for leveling crafts.

Leveling from 1-400 in any craft will get you approximately 10 character levels. There are 8 crafts and thus 80 levels to be had through crafting. Therefore, I can, if I want, buy gems, trade for gold, buy mats and level a new toon to 80. In effect, I can buy a fully leveled character with Gems. And if I am not done there, I can also, if I want, use gems to trade for gold and purchase a full set of exotic gear complete with Runes, As well as fully upgraded trinkets (Except the back piece, that might have to be Rare) I can also purchase any weapon and sigil.

Now, relatively speaking, Exotic is already best in slot for armor and weapons, and is very very close, statistically, to the ascended gear for Trinkets. How is the quality of the Rift gear in comparison? No where near as good as Exotics in GW2.

 

So, in Rift, you are comparatively weaker with the gear obtained from real money than you are in GW2. and yet No one (Not even me) will say GW2 is P2W.

Why?

Because you cannot win with it!

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Rooot

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/13
Posts: 1

6/12/13 5:00:09 PM#32
Why are people always bragging about pay to win. It's like the OP thinks he is racing against every other player to get the best gear and he doesn't want anybody to get a slightly easier start just because they can afford it. Why can't you just ignore this. It's not like you have any disadvantages
  User Deleted
6/12/13 5:05:19 PM#33

Just went through the cash shop myself, and I laughed at the gear offerings.  It is all normal dungeon gear, not even the Expert mode gear.

 

If people wanna toss their cash at gear they could easily have just spent a few hours getting, let em.  It supports Trion and keeps the game running, and the free players doing what they do best.... not spending a single cent.

 

Only things I saw that I want from the cash shop would be the extra bag slots and extra tradeskill slots.  I will just wait to buy them using in game currency to purchase REX from other players though, no need to spend money on stuff I can just earn in game.

  noctisglows

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/13
Posts: 3

6/12/13 5:10:55 PM#34
Rift may have to option to buy gear but, that is not the point. God people are so afraid of things like this, go and actually spend some time finding stuff instead of talking about the cash shop. The game is fun, enjoy it. I found all my gear quite easily and it was fun, did not spend a dollar on the shop and I do just fine.
  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1789

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

6/12/13 5:16:12 PM#35
Originally posted by Arakazi
Five years ago most of you would be appalled at even the suggestion of gear being sold on a AAA game. Soon people will be able to buy a max level toon and all the best gear. You might laugh, but it will happen.

My view on the matter is....who cares if someone wants to buy their items. I have never noticed that someone buying items had any impact on my gameplay.

  Poachinator

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/09
Posts: 79

6/12/13 5:19:41 PM#36
Originally posted by Hatefull

Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid.  I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion?  what happened there?  I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.

Why sell gear at all?  It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps.  But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.  

Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.

You can buy blue gear giving all the gear you need to run expert dungeons not raid. Big deal.

  atziluth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 1221

Killer 73.33%
Achiever 60.00%
Socializer 40.00%
Explorer 26.67%

6/12/13 5:23:50 PM#37
Originally posted by Hatefull

Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid.  I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion?  what happened there?  I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.

Why sell gear at all?  It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps.  But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.  

Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.

Misleading, exaggerated, and not even a hint of objectivity in your post. As you said, you have a right to say what you want within the terms of the board, however others can point out that what you say is untrue. 

 

Yes, there are is some basic armor pieces for sale. You however neglected to state that they are bottom rung dungeon gear easily accessible to anyone with a guild or willing to stomach a few pugs. The pieces of gear are not really end game as much as lv 60 starter gear.

So your statement that this gear even remotely makes the game currently Pay to win is completely unfounded and untrue. Now if they start selling gear with stats better than can be obtained in the game or potions which give significant benefits that cannot be obtained through normal play, you will have a leg to stand on. Right now you don't. 

 

BTW I can say "just my opinion" too... It does not absolve you of outright distorting the facts in order to incite a caustic reaction. 

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  aspekx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2189

6/12/13 5:27:36 PM#38
here's another person, me, who has also just gone through the Cash Shop: there is nothing there that indicates p2win to me. as someone else noted, if you wana shell out 50 bucks for what would take you a few hours of base level dungeon runs, then fine, have at it. but that gear will not advance you in any serious way towards endgame.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

6/12/13 5:35:57 PM#39
I don't really care what someone else does.  They could buy a fully geared level 60 for all I care.  If that's what they want to do and how they want to play why would I poke my nose into their business?  I'll play and pay my way.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Hellidol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 365

6/12/13 6:53:20 PM#40
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

this will be the 3rd time I have made this exact comparison in as many weeks.

In GW2, I can roll a brand new character, I can then visit a site such as GW2 spidy and get the most cost effective guides for leveling crafts.

Leveling from 1-400 in any craft will get you approximately 10 character levels. There are 8 crafts and thus 80 levels to be had through crafting. Therefore, I can, if I want, buy gems, trade for gold, buy mats and level a new toon to 80. In effect, I can buy a fully leveled character with Gems. And if I am not done there, I can also, if I want, use gems to trade for gold and purchase a full set of exotic gear complete with Runes, As well as fully upgraded trinkets (Except the back piece, that might have to be Rare) I can also purchase any weapon and sigil.

Now, relatively speaking, Exotic is already best in slot for armor and weapons, and is very very close, statistically, to the ascended gear for Trinkets. How is the quality of the Rift gear in comparison? No where near as good as Exotics in GW2.

 

So, in Rift, you are comparatively weaker with the gear obtained from real money than you are in GW2. and yet No one (Not even me) will say GW2 is P2W.

Why?

Because you cannot win with it!

What is considers play to win, well IMO I would say being able to advance your self from paying money to get there. If I pay to get gear to help me to getting raider status, then I would say I just saved a ton of time and just won compared to those that have to spend time getting to the same spot I am in the game assuming we both have the same goals. P2W could be a relative term when talking about buying stuff from the AH or from the Company, in both cases if either is neglected that system becomes problematic and with that are robbing the player of the full experience.

If I am selling something that gives me 100 hp and the company is selling something that gives 1000 hp the choice is easy. They try to justify their stance (the company) by saying you "could" just buy that 100 without real money but they also know hardcore games are going to spend that money on that 1000 hp item with no questions asked.

Now you can say " well I am hardcore gamer and I just farm up enough of this and that to make this and that" that is fine but most people have jobs and still raid hardcore; this is where normally the farmer would make money but why waste in game money on a lesser item and you cant really farm in game money because you only have time to raid. Instead what happens is the raider/hardcoregamer/dudewithjob ends up buying from the Company with real money every time. This scenario holds true from past experience of  raiders in wow and other similar games.

In the end you can claim that p2w and f2p are not the same but every which way you look at it the math holds true. How many gamers that raid/play hardcore (meaning 4-8+ a day 5-7 days a week) have jobs and families? Unless someone has a link they can prove me wrong I would use a educated guess and say %70. If that is even remotely close to the percentage then you can see how they are doing unethical practices in some peoples eyes.

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