Trending Games | The Crew | Landmark | Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,850,628 Users Online:0
Games:732  Posts:6,223,968
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The Modern MMORPG.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
55 posts found
  Rhinotones

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/21/13
Posts: 191

Respect people who speak their mind factually and intelligently, and please, never put anyone down.

6/11/13 11:43:53 PM#21
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

The developers know this very well - the analyst industry that forecasts the market for MMORPGs has very clear data on this, and the problem is very simple - there is not enough "old school gamers" to cover the cost of a major AAA title today.

All major publishers and game studios have seen this research because they all use the same company to forecast their games sales in the current market.

You just don't do $50mil project without solid sales forecast data, no company is going to do this.

However smaller studios with smaller budgets could still pull this off, so I'd look at indie/kickstarts - that's your best bet.

 

Could the problem with this be that these publishers/game studios ALL using the same information are also ALL targeting the same mass market? Seems risky to me to be competing against so many. I'm not suggesting that they would need to invest $50mil to achieve what was discussed but I do like your idea of an Indie dev trying to tackle what I and others see as a hole in the market.

  Grailer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 819

6/11/13 11:52:27 PM#22
Originally posted by Rhinotones
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

The developers know this very well - the analyst industry that forecasts the market for MMORPGs has very clear data on this, and the problem is very simple - there is not enough "old school gamers" to cover the cost of a major AAA title today.

All major publishers and game studios have seen this research because they all use the same company to forecast their games sales in the current market.

You just don't do $50mil project without solid sales forecast data, no company is going to do this.

However smaller studios with smaller budgets could still pull this off, so I'd look at indie/kickstarts - that's your best bet.

 

Could the problem with this be that these publishers/game studios ALL using the same information are also ALL targeting the same mass market? Seems risky to me to be competing against so many. I'm not suggesting that they would need to invest $50mil to achieve what was discussed but I do like your idea of an Indie dev trying to tackle what I and others see as a hole in the market.

When people stop buying these games that are rubbish then the dev's will be forced to make quality games.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5142

6/12/13 12:37:11 AM#23
Originally posted by tkreep
I have seen what a modern mmorpg looks like and its called The Division everything else is stuck in the WoW era even the ones that havent come out yet like WildStar

The Division is a tactical shooter, it's not a MMORPG, I doubt that it's very *massive* as in supporting 1000s of players on one shard, and I doubt that it has playable area anywhere near what traditional MMORPGs offer, not to mention - all those buildings you see in the video - how many of them can you go inside and fully explore? yeah....

So basically you're locked in walking down the streets, and being able to go into buildings that are not locked - meanwhile the gameplay revolves around cover tactics.

It looks great, but it's a tactical shooter... not MMORPG, sorry.

Just my 2c.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4655

6/12/13 12:48:37 AM#24
Originally posted by Rhinotones

 Hi DamonVile,

I understand what you're saying here and agree that the masses want what you said but I feel that there are many on this site feeling the same way as the OP.

I'm a little out of touch with what's out at present as I've been taking a break from MMOs for a year but from what I have read through these forums there is nothing current out there that satisfies the gaming needs of the "old school" gamer. I don't think being an old school gamer is THE problem, it's that the markets currently focused on the masses and forgetting about the old school lads. You can't cater to all and the majority will win unless you design your game to a specific target market.

We're not too dissimilar to the "mass market", we still want to escape reality and have our fun time, we're just looking for more depth and meaning/value within our games. A connected relationship with our fellow adventurers, more meaningful game play  that has purpose, deeper concepts for levelling characters, crafts etc and longer to get to an endgame (not a fan of this terminology myself as it's always shifting).

I hope someone will have the courage to target this group in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised if done well it would attract a larger than thought following and we'll see that there are still many gamers that want to be challenged and have patience.

I meant " the problem " sarcastically ;) The real problem is there just isn't enough of us to make it worth their while. No one is going to spend $100 million+ on an mmo that might bring in 200k subs. And with the number of games that come out who knows how long that will even last.

It would be cool if someone was really interested in making that gamble but people with that kind of money to spend tend to want to gamble on a sure thing.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Mkilbride

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/01/07
Posts: 616

 
OP  6/12/13 12:54:01 AM#25
Personally I am putting alot of faith in Camelot Unchained. I'm not really into PVP, but the concepts of it sold me.

Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  dgarbini

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

6/12/13 1:19:53 AM#26
I agree fully OP.  And interesting question about being more connected then ever, and yet more isolated.  I find this to be an issue not just in game but society as a whole.  The world is really a much smaller place then ever before and yet I find so many people are so isolated.  I think some of it has to do with significance of the connections/interactions.  In that I mean we may be connected but most of those interactions are not really meaningful.  That leads to less strong connections, and thus making those connections easier to be forgotten or unappreciated.  In MMO examples that would be say in EQ a cleric coming to the bottom of the dungeon to help res you.  It was quite a process and risky/time consuming.  That lead you to really appreciate when that happened.  Compare that to GW2 where a res takes 5 seconds with little to no risk.  Not quite as impacting.  I am not advocating one method or the other, just an observation.  Some of it also may be generational, or the economy, but I will say one thing for sure, this continued escalation of isolation in our society, is unhealthy for all of us and I would like to see the trend change.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

6/12/13 11:06:06 AM#27
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

There are such games .. Eve, DF, Earthrise ...

The market is just not big enough for more AAA developments.

Personally i would rather have a large amount of people .. quitting 2 months don't concern me .. i may not stay that long. I don't want to play the same game for years to come. That is boring.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1360

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

6/12/13 2:09:28 PM#28

Phenomenal post, OP, and I agree with everything you say. Also hoping Camelot Unchained and EQN gives us something special.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Neckz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/13
Posts: 3

6/12/13 3:26:39 PM#29
Originally posted by Mkilbride
 
 

Personally, I've never been a fan of raids in MMORPGs. Especially the large ones. They are a mess, they end up not being fun, and usually end as a waste of time. To many people to manage, people can play badly, it doesn't matter, they make up for it with quantity.

 

Define "large raid". If you don't prefer raids, that's a personal decision. You sound like a group-going casual player. And there's nothing wrong with that.

In my opinion, there's absolutely a place for larger raids. I'm referring less to zergy, walk-on PUG's where there's no player-driven skill or gear check (send /tell for invite) and wipes are frequent. But more so organized, skilled, high-level players working together and communicating to progress through difficult content. If you enjoy small-scale, group-oriented gameplay, that's totally cool. But there are people that seek the opposite: aspiring for a high-end raiding guild, accomplishing the most difficult encounters of the game, and enjoying some phat lewtz and in-game glory on the side.

 

 I've never thought of raiding as "End-game" either, and I'm sad that is what people think it is these days. You do these raids, at max level, to get better gear...to do more raids...for gear...that serves no purposes outside of raids, because it's super powerful and makes anything not a raid a joke really.

 

You wouldn't because you're coming from the perspective of a casual, group-going gamer that, for whatever reason, avoids raiding. Raiding is absolutely a facet to "endgame", in that it's another fun way to keep players coming back and give them active, difficult, competitive goals to aspire to. While some games have deep crafting and "large, dynamic events" as endgame, there's nothing quite like traditional MMORPG endgame: joining a team of other like-minded players and really spending weeks / months on content, getting better gear (rewards for hard work), and knowing you're associated with other competent players (e.g. the allure of being in a well-respected guild). 

 

 I'm ok with Dungeons. You know, 4-6 people, each player has to play his role perfectly to insure victory. Everyone gets something worth getting for their troubles. Not just one person. That's dumb. 

 

In a team-oriented environment, when you're playing through the most difficult content (within a high-end raiding guild), it's less about you and more about the team. Your turn will come. There are many factors that determine loot distribution. It's probably a good thing you're not interested in raiding, because you'd be that guy whining non-stop about not getting loot - no offense. :) But, seriously, at that level of competition, you just have to realize that the better you get, the faster you work as a team, the more efficiently you progress through content, opening up the door for more and more gear. You have to be patient.

 

 Expansions come and raise the level cap, making all previous gear worthless and all old content abandoned. I don't get it. Why raise the level cap, just to make it seem like you've added more content than you have? GW1, is a perfect example of a game that never raised it's level cap, it provided multiple expansions and add-ons, featuring new skills, gear, loot, ect, and nothing from the old games was made worthless or not yet doing. All places had people to do content. The world felt very connected. We had none of "This is the largest threat to the world in 10,000 years, but by next expansion this Dungeon can be solo'ed" 

 

I don't have an issue with this. Expansions are usually few and far-between; years apart. The game must go on, right?

 

I like the leveling experience with other people. Fighting challenging enemies that aren't just DPS to death. Ones that use skills, tactics, ect, every fight is a challenge, not just another mob to mow down. It makes it feel like you're making progress. I played GW2 and did one of it's "raids", and boy...was that a very unfun, time consuming experience, that netted me no worthwhile rewards. I'd have been OK if the content in itself was fun and interesting. It was not. Ones that make you learn your class, that type of fight is what I want. Most MMOs these days you don't need to learn your class til "End-game" or "Raids", which is dumb. You should be learning your class as you level - yet most MMORPGs do not require that these days.

 

You're not alone. Everyone likes playing with friends. Those can be the best moments. I agree about GW2, that game was such a let down.

 

 I don't understand the desirability of a gear treadmill. You work hard, get this cool piece of loot, half a level later, you've found a random drop that is better. Or they release an expansion and make all previous gear worthless, even of some was "Legendary" and considered the strongest of the strongest in the lore, it is now weaker than a generic dagger 5 levels above it.

 

Have you ever played in a high-end, competitive guild? For most games, the hardest content is max level, so you're not leveling up as you progress through the content for weeks / months. Yes, 6 months to a year later (or more), when expansion hits, your gear will be irrelevant (for the most part), but expansions happen. This isn't new. People are aware; we anticipate it. It's new content, new puzzles, new challenges, new dilemmas. The gear treadmill isn't that big of an issue.

 

 I like a long leveling process that requires the help of others. With interesting enemies. A game without Soulbound loot, so you can sell your old gear, or give it to someone who needs it, there's a sense of attachment to items this way.  It helps breed a friendly, mature community when the game encourages you to help others in such ways.

 

Yep, like I said, you're a casual gamer who not interested in raiding, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can't understand the allure of "endgame raiding" because you've never done it. I'm actually willing to bet you've been involved in some zergy PUG "raids" that have jaded the hell out of you! :) You seem like you play to be great at your class; aspire to join a larger, top guild for the next MMO you play. Join them and experience a new facet to the game: selflessness, dedication, teamwork and the glory of doing hard stuff that others can't.

 

 Why are MMORPGS larger than ever, yet feel more closed off than ever? It's a conundrum. it irks me to no end. I look back at hte MMORPGs of yesteryear fondly, thinking "It must just be my rose-tinted glasses". Then I go and play them again for a month to see if it was...it wasn't, they are still great games, with wonderful communities and a more interesting and interactive world than almost all the MMORPGs in the last decade. I don't even realize when 3-4 hours have slipped by. While in a modern MMO, I'm looking at the clock constantly.

 

Because modern day MMO's use that immersion-breaking, garbage trend of instancing EVERYTHING. I'm OK with instanced dungeon runs, but having MULTIPLE instances for a single area / zone? It's horrible.

 

 We have MMORPGs in abundance that leave us in want. The very nature of the MMORPG cries out for the social interaction of all players, and yet we've closed ourselves in. We only come together for Raids or Dungeons, or some kind of World Boss. The very thought of partying outside of these acts is met with "Meh...it'll only make us level slower, and I'll get less loot..."

 

I agree. The social dynamic is imperative. Alongside immersion, they are both the core foundation of an MMO, in my opinion. Since WoW, when a lot of the traditional MMO "hassles" have been removed in favor of instant gratification elements, we're seeing less people grouping up. Subsequently, less interaction, which leads to not "making friends" (or enemies). A numb feeling, just running around, solo, questing. The game world feels detached. Add instanced servers everywhere, and you feel like you're playing on ghost servers. All because a few people cried about not getting enough loot or experience back in 2004, so they've catered all MMO's for "solo play".

 

Then the "Level questing" designed to shuffle you from place to place. You learn to just accept these quests, as there are dozens, and usually the dialogue is awful. You go out and kill 5 of these, collect 10 of those, and craft 3 of that. You then turn all your quests in and level up. You don't explore the zones. You don't get lost in the world,. It's a waste of time usually, because questing is designed to show you only the carefully crafted areas that they want you to see. Areas that usually don't involve quests are poorly designed or hell, not even there.  You see other players, but they don't want to talk, or don't respond, they're to busy accepting quests and turning them in to get XP and junk loot that'll be replaced by dropped loot 10 minutes from then.

 

I was OK with this when WoW was released. I think everyone was. It was new, fresh. It made sense. But, I agree, it's gotten out of hand. Every MMO clone since has done the same and it's become trite.

 

 Why are we more connected than ever, yet MMORPG's have never felt more like a Singleplayer game? Hell, even MUDS felt more like a multiplayer game than most MMOs these days.

 

You hit the nail on the head. It's because MMO's have slowly evolved to cater to players' wants and desires. The MMO producers and developers have lowered the standards, in a strategic move to get more people to play the game (i.e. for the company to make money). If we give them more of what they want, in less time, it will attract more customers and, possibly, keep them around for longer. It makes sense. But, in the wake of WoW and the current crop of WoW-clones, it's obvious that MANY of us are still longing for "the good old days" when you really had to put in the time and effort to get the gear you wanted. Many people played EverQuest, for YEARS, and couldn't experience the pinnacle of vanilla EQ. What does that tell you about the game!? 

 

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3680

6/12/13 6:52:52 PM#30
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

You don't make money building communities, you make money appealing to large numbers of consumers.  MMOs, whether you like it or not, are a business and businesses exist to make money.  They always have and they always will.  If you can get a million people to play your game for 2-3 months, that's a better financial position than if you can get 200,000 people to play for 5-6 months.  You might be willing to pay a lot for a game, but you are in a tiny minority.  Find a couple million people like you and I'm sure the developers will listen, but not until.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  MMORPGRIP

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/13
Posts: 90

6/12/13 8:29:55 PM#31
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

You don't make money building communities, you make money appealing to large numbers of consumers.  MMOs, whether you like it or not, are a business and businesses exist to make money.  They always have and they always will.  If you can get a million people to play your game for 2-3 months, that's a better financial position than if you can get 200,000 people to play for 5-6 months.  You might be willing to pay a lot for a game, but you are in a tiny minority.  Find a couple million people like you and I'm sure the developers will listen, but not until.

When you have a good community (And game play), people tend to stay for YEARS.....not mere months

 

  yangdude

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/15/12
Posts: 65

6/12/13 9:08:20 PM#32

Sorry I didn't read the whole post cause I had a thought and didn't want to lose it.

This thread seems to be loosely looking at two separate issues: Number one is the apparent difference between the 'new generation' and 'old generation' of gamer.  Number two is the end-game of MMO's.

 

1 - I totally disagree that there is one specific group of people who want a quick shallow reward and then move on, while another group will immerse themselves into a game for a long time and work slowly towards the rewards.  What I believe is that a large group of people have ONLY been subjected to the quick shallow game - take Neverwinter for example - the latest thing right and yet its about 10% of what the old Perfect World game was and still is.  There are probably many thousands of people who now think Neverwinter is what an MMO is supposed to be (personally I think its garbage and I uninstalled it yesterday btw)

Now, this generation of players are also the ones that made Minecraft such a phenomenon.  And what is Minecraft but something you have to constantly work at to get the rewards you want.  The game gives you the raw building blocks but you need to do the work.  So given the right platform, this new generation of gamer WILL knuckle down, focus, stay immersed and work towards a goal.  As I said though many new MMO's don't seem to offer this ideal. 

 

2 - I've been thinking about this whole end-game question a lot lately, as have many of you all I guess.  What causes longevity?  What will keep you coming back into a game?  

I like using Perfect World as a measuring stick because it got so many things right and one HUGE thing wrong.  IF Perfect World DIDN'T introduce the last tier of gears (rank 9) that could be bought with real money, then I believe it would be absolutely thriving.  PWI obviously made the choice of quick cash v long term rewards, when they introduced it.  And it really killed the game.  Since they introduced Rank 9 there have been many upgrades.  If those upgrades occurred before hand, and rank 9 was never introduced, then many thousands of people wouldn't have quit. 

So lets say you get to end game - some months later you have awesome gear.  The big question that devs need to work out, is what do players do now.   Either they need content that is awesome fun, or they need content that still allows players to work towards a goal - but what goal - that's the big question.  By the sounds of it WOW just introduces newer gear periodically.  Perfect World has PVP in Nation Wars and many people actually just sign on, on the days Nation Wars is on, play for the 2hrs it takes and sign off again.  So, to me, that's a fail as nothing keeps people in the game outside of these times.

I have this idea that to some degree a complex system of housing (boating etc) could be the final frontier.  Imagine if you walked the landscape of an MMO - over there is a small hut - you know they haven't put much time into their house - and over there on the horizon are the flags flying on the parapets of a castle, which you know is player built, by someone at end game making the biggest statement of success they can. 

This is what I see as end-game anyway.  Something else to do when you have awesome gear - the option to build and create - but where everything you need to build and create CANT be bought in a cash shop - it must be farmed by you, or you buy from players who farm the materials and sell to you - so lower level can benefit from your success as well.  And the system needs to include methods whereby you can lose it all over time if your not careful - just like real life. 

That's my two cents anyway.  Adios.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3680

6/12/13 9:26:29 PM#33
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

You don't make money building communities, you make money appealing to large numbers of consumers.  MMOs, whether you like it or not, are a business and businesses exist to make money.  They always have and they always will.  If you can get a million people to play your game for 2-3 months, that's a better financial position than if you can get 200,000 people to play for 5-6 months.  You might be willing to pay a lot for a game, but you are in a tiny minority.  Find a couple million people like you and I'm sure the developers will listen, but not until.

When you have a good community (And game play), people tend to stay for YEARS.....not mere months

 

You be sure to let us all know when you find a single good community because I don't think such a thing exists in any modern game on the planet.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  steamtank

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 390

6/12/13 9:44:44 PM#34
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

You don't make money building communities, you make money appealing to large numbers of consumers.  MMOs, whether you like it or not, are a business and businesses exist to make money.  They always have and they always will.  If you can get a million people to play your game for 2-3 months, that's a better financial position than if you can get 200,000 people to play for 5-6 months.  You might be willing to pay a lot for a game, but you are in a tiny minority.  Find a couple million people like you and I'm sure the developers will listen, but not until.

When you have a good community (And game play), people tend to stay for YEARS.....not mere months

 

You be sure to let us all know when you find a single good community because I don't think such a thing exists in any modern game on the planet.

city of heroes =(

it had a great community

  tasing

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/13
Posts: 5

6/12/13 9:59:58 PM#35
Oh,,, thanks for sharing your thoughts, but everyone of us has different perspective and of course there are some features of the game that works for some but in general we have our own perpective and likes about a certain games that we like.
  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

6/12/13 10:01:29 PM#36
Originally posted by steamtank
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

You don't make money building communities, you make money appealing to large numbers of consumers.  MMOs, whether you like it or not, are a business and businesses exist to make money.  They always have and they always will.  If you can get a million people to play your game for 2-3 months, that's a better financial position than if you can get 200,000 people to play for 5-6 months.  You might be willing to pay a lot for a game, but you are in a tiny minority.  Find a couple million people like you and I'm sure the developers will listen, but not until.

When you have a good community (And game play), people tend to stay for YEARS.....not mere months

 

You be sure to let us all know when you find a single good community because I don't think such a thing exists in any modern game on the planet.

city of heroes =(

it had a great community

I always thought LOTRO had a great community as well. At least it did when I played (a while ago truthfully).

  MMORPGRIP

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/13
Posts: 90

6/13/13 5:28:13 AM#37
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by c0exist
What these developers also do not realize is that those of us for lack of a better term, "old school gamers" are the best type of consumers.  Yes appealing to a mass market is great, but in this case its foolish not to at least have one game that is somewhat similar to a classic style mmoprg.  I cant speak for everyone, but I am quite loyal when I find a game I like and will pay upward of up to $40/month for a great game.  So would you rather have a large amount of people that will quit within 2 months or have a much smaller steady group that will call your game home for years to come.  You build a better community this way.  Just my opinion.   

You don't make money building communities, you make money appealing to large numbers of consumers.  MMOs, whether you like it or not, are a business and businesses exist to make money.  They always have and they always will.  If you can get a million people to play your game for 2-3 months, that's a better financial position than if you can get 200,000 people to play for 5-6 months.  You might be willing to pay a lot for a game, but you are in a tiny minority.  Find a couple million people like you and I'm sure the developers will listen, but not until.

When you have a good community (And game play), people tend to stay for YEARS.....not mere months

 

You be sure to let us all know when you find a single good community because I don't think such a thing exists in any modern game on the planet.

Exactly my point. In a MODERN MMORPG, you won't find one, or will have a hard time finding one anyway. Especially since they aren't built around creating one with features that detract from it and make them unnecessary anymore.
 

Such as the ability to solo to cap, ability to buy mercs (AI team mates), easy game play (No need for others), in game map GPS to everything (No need to ask others questions), etc, etc, etc.

BTW, MMORPG's I have played with decent communities (Of course not perfect, but WELL above anything now)...

- EQ1

- Vanguard

- AoC

- Eve Online

- LotRO

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/13/13 7:16:05 AM#38
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

BTW, MMORPG's I have played with decent communities (Of course not perfect, but WELL above anything now)...

- EQ1

- Vanguard

- AoC

- Eve Online

- LotRO

Four of those five would be considered 'modern era' games, wouldn't they?

Does the modern era begin in 2003, or 2004?

(It occurs to me that we're about 'due' to draw another arbitrary line across the timeline and begin a new 'era'. Need a big big target game to love or hate, I guess, and then the WoW players can begin their shift as the curators of the disgruntled veterans mourning shroud).

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Neckz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/13
Posts: 3

6/13/13 9:16:37 AM#39
Originally posted by Icewhite
...and then the WoW players can begin their shift as the curators of the disgruntled veterans mourning shroud).

Brilliant! LOL

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

6/13/13 2:23:40 PM#40
Originally posted by Cephus404

 

You be sure to let us all know when you find a single good community because I don't think such a thing exists in any modern game on the planet.

I don't really need to find a single good community because i can always bring my friends to a game. Few play only one game anyway.

 

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search