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General Discussion  » Interesting article: GW2 The Friendliest MMORPG Ever (?)

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  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1311

6/10/13 1:35:00 PM#61
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Neo no that's EQ.

You didn't steal spawns and greifing pve in daoc as it was in your interest for everyone on your realm to progress.

You got to be kidding me right? Man, I was there playing the game, you can't cheat me. When a group was leveling at the best spawn spot, the others were screwed. You fought for mobs.

Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123
Yes I tried to talk to people, so don t use the "It's your fault, not the games" speech.

Maybe you didn't try hard enough. We got 3 new recruits in out guild this week end, just from talking to people. And it is the same almost every week.

If you only talk to people to ask "how do u kil bos plz?" or "how 2 get loot plz?", of course that won't work too well in GW2, and it only makes imaginary friends in other games.

Of course it s my fault. I tried plenty of times, I never once asked for help, just chatting with people in general. They just didn t care I was there, because the game is built that way, no need to talk at all, as long as you re there to help kill what they need killed, you re non existent. Please stop saying it s my fault, it s getting really old.

The only reason why I'm saying the problem might be on your side is because I manage to do better, and I don't consider myself better than anyone else. So if I can do it, why can't you?

There's definitely something I'm doing right and you don't. Maybe because I was used to play games without forced socializing/grouping mechanics way before I played games with those mechanics.

I don t know. Maybe your like for the game let s you see the good. I didn t go into the game thinking good or bad, and I see the whole picture better maybe?

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  6/10/13 1:35:31 PM#62
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Neo no that's EQ.

You didn't steal spawns and greifing pve in daoc as it was in your interest for everyone on your realm to progress.

You got to be kidding me right? Man, I was there playing the game, you can't cheat me. When a group was leveling at the best spawn spot, the others were screwed. You fought for mobs.

Lol, nope, people actually made alliances to help each other. Not sure what server you were playing on, but, I ve never , ever experienced people going out of their way as much as they did in DAOC, or FFXI for that matter.

Nostalgia and rose colored glasses are strong enemies of reality and facts ;)

My computer is better than yours.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1565

6/10/13 1:36:42 PM#63
Originally posted by Mkilbride

People here must've never played Final Fantasy XI.

 

Final Fantasy XI had, and still has, the best community out of any online game experience you can have. There will no calls of "noob / nub!" maybe a friendly "Yeah, he's a newbie.". People will stop and help you on a 4 hour quest. They will offer to pay your subscription fees if you say you don't want to anymore. They'll share gear. It's one of the greatest things I've ever experienced.

 

 

Final Fantasy XI, a Online Role Playing Game, has given me a tiny fraction of faith in humanity. Yes, a video game.

I agree, not only FFXI but Vanguard, EQ and Ryzom the list goes on lol.

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  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  6/10/13 1:37:03 PM#64
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Neo no that's EQ.

You didn't steal spawns and greifing pve in daoc as it was in your interest for everyone on your realm to progress.

You got to be kidding me right? Man, I was there playing the game, you can't cheat me. When a group was leveling at the best spawn spot, the others were screwed. You fought for mobs.

Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123
Yes I tried to talk to people, so don t use the "It's your fault, not the games" speech.

Maybe you didn't try hard enough. We got 3 new recruits in out guild this week end, just from talking to people. And it is the same almost every week.

If you only talk to people to ask "how do u kil bos plz?" or "how 2 get loot plz?", of course that won't work too well in GW2, and it only makes imaginary friends in other games.

Of course it s my fault. I tried plenty of times, I never once asked for help, just chatting with people in general. They just didn t care I was there, because the game is built that way, no need to talk at all, as long as you re there to help kill what they need killed, you re non existent. Please stop saying it s my fault, it s getting really old.

The only reason why I'm saying the problem might be on your side is because I manage to do better, and I don't consider myself better than anyone else. So if I can do it, why can't you?

There's definitely something I'm doing right and you don't. Maybe because I was used to play games without forced socializing/grouping mechanics way before I played games with those mechanics.

I don t know. Maybe your like for the game let s you see the good. I didn t go into the game thinking good or bad, and I see the whole picture better maybe?

Oh, but it's not my "like for the game", but facts. When your guild is full of people you can call "friends", you know you aren't too bad at socializing without forced grouping mechanics.

My computer is better than yours.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1565

6/10/13 1:38:10 PM#65
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Neo no that's EQ.

You didn't steal spawns and greifing pve in daoc as it was in your interest for everyone on your realm to progress.

You got to be kidding me right? Man, I was there playing the game, you can't cheat me. When a group was leveling at the best spawn spot, the others were screwed. You fought for mobs.

Lol, nope, people actually made alliances to help each other. Not sure what server you were playing on, but, I ve never , ever experienced people going out of their way as much as they did in DAOC, or FFXI for that matter.

Nostalgia and rose colored glasses are strong enemies of reality and facts ;)

Funny you should mention "rose tinted glasses" seems rather fitting in this instance.

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  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

6/10/13 1:39:19 PM#66
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Neo no that's EQ.

You didn't steal spawns and greifing pve in daoc as it was in your interest for everyone on your realm to progress.

You got to be kidding me right? Man, I was there playing the game, you can't cheat me. When a group was leveling at the best spawn spot, the others were screwed. You fought for mobs.

Lol, nope, people actually made alliances to help each other. Not sure what server you were playing on, but, I ve never , ever experienced people going out of their way as much as they did in DAOC, or FFXI for that matter.

Nostalgia and rose colored glasses are strong enemies of reality and facts ;)

Funny you should mention "rose tinted glasses" seems rather fitting in this instance.

 

It's not an instance, it's a zone!

 

Oh crap... wrong argument. Sorry, disregard.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1311

6/10/13 1:41:26 PM#67
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Neo no that's EQ.

You didn't steal spawns and greifing pve in daoc as it was in your interest for everyone on your realm to progress.

You got to be kidding me right? Man, I was there playing the game, you can't cheat me. When a group was leveling at the best spawn spot, the others were screwed. You fought for mobs.

Originally posted by Soki123
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123
Yes I tried to talk to people, so don t use the "It's your fault, not the games" speech.

Maybe you didn't try hard enough. We got 3 new recruits in out guild this week end, just from talking to people. And it is the same almost every week.

If you only talk to people to ask "how do u kil bos plz?" or "how 2 get loot plz?", of course that won't work too well in GW2, and it only makes imaginary friends in other games.

Of course it s my fault. I tried plenty of times, I never once asked for help, just chatting with people in general. They just didn t care I was there, because the game is built that way, no need to talk at all, as long as you re there to help kill what they need killed, you re non existent. Please stop saying it s my fault, it s getting really old.

The only reason why I'm saying the problem might be on your side is because I manage to do better, and I don't consider myself better than anyone else. So if I can do it, why can't you?

There's definitely something I'm doing right and you don't. Maybe because I was used to play games without forced socializing/grouping mechanics way before I played games with those mechanics.

I don t know. Maybe your like for the game let s you see the good. I didn t go into the game thinking good or bad, and I see the whole picture better maybe?

Oh, but it's not my "like for the game", but facts. When your guild is full of people you can call "friends", you know you aren't too bad at socializing without forced grouping mechanics.

A guild is a guild, totally different. I m talking about random people in the world. They really don t care if you re there. I ve had people risk their life, in game of course, to save me from the middle of DF in DAOC. All from just sending a tell. Theres no way in hell that would happen in GW2. In FFXI, I ve had people jump off their choc, which used to cost a lot, in the middle of a zone(no more choc stables, you have to run it) just to heal me because they see I m dieng. Those are friends you make forever in games. This I can guarantee wouldn t happen in GW2. It hasn t anyways for me, but people in general really just see me as another object on their screen anyways.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  6/10/13 3:14:32 PM#68
Originally posted by Soki123

A guild is a guild, totally different. I m talking about random people in the world.

Yeah, but what if they are people initially met randomly in the world, and who then join your guild?

They really don t care if you re there. I ve had people risk their life, in game of course, to save me from the middle of DF in DAOC. All from just sending a tell. Theres no way in hell that would happen in GW2. In FFXI, I ve had people jump off their choc, which used to cost a lot, in the middle of a zone(no more choc stables, you have to run it) just to heal me because they see I m dieng. Those are friends you make forever in games. This I can guarantee wouldn t happen in GW2. It hasn t anyways for me, but people in general really just see me as another object on their screen anyways.

I've had total strangers "risk their life" under fire of several arrow carts in world vs world just to rez me. Other total strangers jump in to help in a lost fight against a champion, sometimes just to die with me, and then we exchanged /whispers "well, at least we tried", and then quite often "let's try again!".

Whatever you guarantee wouldn't happen is only your personal impression, not reality. It's maybe because you felt like "just another object on the screen" that people treated you as such. People tend to return the way you treat them.

My computer is better than yours.

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1311

6/10/13 3:23:17 PM#69
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123

A guild is a guild, totally different. I m talking about random people in the world.

Yeah, but what if they are people initially met randomly in the world, and who then join your guild?

They really don t care if you re there. I ve had people risk their life, in game of course, to save me from the middle of DF in DAOC. All from just sending a tell. Theres no way in hell that would happen in GW2. In FFXI, I ve had people jump off their choc, which used to cost a lot, in the middle of a zone(no more choc stables, you have to run it) just to heal me because they see I m dieng. Those are friends you make forever in games. This I can guarantee wouldn t happen in GW2. It hasn t anyways for me, but people in general really just see me as another object on their screen anyways.

I've had total strangers "risk their life" under fire of several arrow carts in world vs world just to rez me. Other total strangers jump in to help in a lost fight against a champion, sometimes just to die with me, and then we exchanged /whispers "well, at least we tried", and then quite often "let's try again!".

Whatever you guarantee wouldn't happen is only your personal impression, not reality. It's maybe because you felt like "just another object on the screen" that people treated you as such. People tend to return the way you treat them.

Lets talk death penalty in GW2(non existent) and Old DAOC or FFXI. You can t compare GW2 to those games, so please stop trying. As far as treating people as just another object on the screen, that's false. You are really just over glorifying what it is actually like. Theres no way in hell this game has nothing but angels as you like to make it sound.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  6/10/13 3:27:50 PM#70
Originally posted by Soki123

Lets talk death penalty in GW2(non existent) and Old DAOC or FFXI. You can t compare GW2 to those games, so please stop trying.


If you pretend there's no death penalty in WvW, then maybe you should start by playing the game so you know what you're talking about. And I don't talk about repair bills, but about having a long run back to the battle if you get killed. It's just the same than in DAoC, actually.

I can compare this game to any MMORPG I've played these last 20 years, but I thank you for the suggestion. I hope you will excuse me if I don't apply it though. Let's talk about death penalty in Ultima Online if you really want to flex your virtual MMO muscles. And compared to UO pre-Trammel or also AC1:Darktide, all you DAoC players are, if you allow me to use the expression, "carebears". Just to explain why you don't really impress me... you're not the first ex-DAoC nostalgic who thinks that game invented community, PvP and death penalty.

My computer is better than yours.

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1311

6/10/13 3:32:12 PM#71
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123

Lets talk death penalty in GW2(non existent) and Old DAOC or FFXI. You can t compare GW2 to those games, so please stop trying.


If you pretend there's no death penalty in WvW, then maybe you should start by playing the game so you know what you're talking about. And I don't talk about repair bills, but about having a long run back to the battle if you get killed. It's just the same than in DAoC, actually.

I can compare this game to any MMORPG I've played these last 20 years, but I thank you for the suggestion. I hope you will excuse me if I don't apply it though. Let's talk about death penalty in Ultima Online if you really want to flex your virtual MMO muscles.

I m talking PVE, but I guess you missed that a few posts back. You can t compare GW2 to those 2 games when it comes to death penalty, and friendliness of the player base to GW2, that has next to no consequences, really just a minor annoyance. It s ok though you keep telling yourself they re the same in that aspect.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  6/10/13 3:38:03 PM#72
Originally posted by Soki123

I m talking PVE, but I guess you missed that a few posts back. You can t compare GW2 to those 2 games when it comes to death penalty, and friendliness of the player base to GW2, that has next to no consequences, really just a minor annoyance. It s ok though you keep telling yourself they re the same in that aspect.

Ok let's talk about PvE then.

So you're just another of those people who think socialization is best when enforced by game mechanics. This has already been addressed several times in the thread. A harsh death penalty doesn't make real online "friends", it just forces players to use each other to reach their own goal.

The most social people are those who manage to socialize even without any of those mechanics trying to force them to. Those are the people who are naturally friendly towards others, and not the ones who need the game to tell them they need to make "false friends" to progress.

People forced to endure your presence by game mechanics (be it death penalty, forced grouping, forced raiding, etc...) aren't friends, they are co-workers. Some may become friends, but most will only be people using you to reach their own goal. People naturally going towards you trying to make contact even when not forced to are those who don't see you as a way to get more xp/loot/PvP kills/whatever else, but as another human being playing the same game they want to learn to know better.

My computer is better than yours.

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1311

6/10/13 3:44:41 PM#73
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123

I m talking PVE, but I guess you missed that a few posts back. You can t compare GW2 to those 2 games when it comes to death penalty, and friendliness of the player base to GW2, that has next to no consequences, really just a minor annoyance. It s ok though you keep telling yourself they re the same in that aspect.

Ok let's talk about PvE then.

So you're just another of those people who think socialization is best when enforced by game mechanics. This has already been addressed several times in the thread. A harsh death penalty doesn't make real online "friends", it just forces players to use each other to reach their own goal.

The most social people are those who manage to socialize even without any of those mechanics trying to force them to. Those are the people who are naturally friendly towards others, and not the ones who need the game to tell them they need to make "false friends" to progress.

People forced to endure your presence by game mechanics (be it death penalty, forced grouping, forced raiding, etc...) aren't friends, they are co-workers. Some may become friends, but most will only be people using you to reach their own goal. People naturally going towards you trying to make contact even when not forced to are those who don't see you as a way to get more xp/loot/PvP kills/whatever else, but as another human being playing the same game they want to learn to know better.

Ok lets talk PVE. I said what these people, and many of them did, in a game (DAOC,FFXI) with a harsh death penalty, for you, is friendly. GW2 cannot display this aspect, because it s non existent. See what I m talking about. The friendliness of players helping people, even though it could detriment them because of such penalties, are what to me, make long lasting friends. That's how I feel and your (?) on the topic is what I m talking about. If you think it s the friendliest, bar none, you wouldn t have put that (?) there. Hence I m not agreeing with it. I have given plenty of reasons to why I feel this way, but you seem to think what you say is the only right answer. Simply get rid of the (?) and put IMO, or something. That I can t argue.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

 
OP  6/10/13 3:50:57 PM#74

Just a precision... I didn't write that article, some gamer lady did. The title is her title, not mine (including the (?)). Just for those who didn't even read the article fully and didn't pay attention to its title.

And despite playing MMOs for much longer than any player who started them with DAoC, I'm not victim of that nostalgia that makes one think that things were so much better in "good old times". Despite being in UO beta, I remember how full of asshats that game was. Despite being in DAoC beta, I remember how much that famous "realm pride" is only fiction made up by some people who think grass was greener in the "good old times".

Been there, done that. Any mainstream MMO you've played, I was there too. You can't cheat me.

My computer is better than yours.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/10/13 4:12:03 PM#75
I don't agree with EQ being friendlier

Sure at the start it was.

But after several expansions it became a cliquey club for hardcore raiders / elitists. Much like wow in that regard.

Friendlier than gw2 in vanilla though.

Still I think compared to other post wow games, gw2 is definetly a friendly game. But a lot of that is down to its heritage, they borrowed a lot of ideas to encourage friendliness from
Coh - easy grouping, no competition for drops, no mob tagging
Daoc - server / realm pride, flatish gear curve, equality of gear VIA either pvp/pve/crafting, big ass open world raids you want as many people as possible to join in with.

One thing gw2, daoc and coh all have in common though is GEAR ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT.

now the games I've encountered the most asshats in like wow, aion and rift - GEAR IS VERY IMPORTANT.

so that's what I look for in a mmo when gauging what the community will be like, the relative unimportance of "phat lewt"
  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2226

First came pride, then envy.

6/10/13 5:12:34 PM#76
Originally posted by Purutzil

Yeah... kinda easy when your content kinda shuns away from groups (As in "hey you are playing together, but not really interacting or doing anything social with it, they are just 'there like npcs', and with no open world pvp makes it even easier to avoid grief and other things. There are more friendly games out there then Gw2, but what it does have has to do with its design in ways trivializing player interaction, to the point it ends up treating players more like random NPCs rather then people you play with.

 

Its like saying a car (standard open world pvp/group focused with interactions needed) is less eco friendly then a bike (players more so just work together, not really needing to establish groups and it just happens, trivializing the need for communication). Of course the bike would win that, by its design it is going to be a lot better.

You mean like Rift?  While doing events, there is a popup menu that gives an option to join the public event.

There is also an option in GW2.  Click player, click invite.

There is also one in WoW.. or any other MMO out there.

Most MMOs are now shunning the tagged-mob style of gameplay.

Everyone keeps bringing up the socialization argument, and now there's the interaction argument now?  What's the difference if you're grouped or not?  You both occupy the same space in the virtual area.  What more do you people want?  I'm starting to think this obsession with socialization is due to the lack of socialization in their real lives.

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2226

First came pride, then envy.

6/10/13 5:30:35 PM#77
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123

I m talking PVE, but I guess you missed that a few posts back. You can t compare GW2 to those 2 games when it comes to death penalty, and friendliness of the player base to GW2, that has next to no consequences, really just a minor annoyance. It s ok though you keep telling yourself they re the same in that aspect.

Ok let's talk about PvE then.

So you're just another of those people who think socialization is best when enforced by game mechanics. This has already been addressed several times in the thread. A harsh death penalty doesn't make real online "friends", it just forces players to use each other to reach their own goal.

The most social people are those who manage to socialize even without any of those mechanics trying to force them to. Those are the people who are naturally friendly towards others, and not the ones who need the game to tell them they need to make "false friends" to progress.

People forced to endure your presence by game mechanics (be it death penalty, forced grouping, forced raiding, etc...) aren't friends, they are co-workers. Some may become friends, but most will only be people using you to reach their own goal. People naturally going towards you trying to make contact even when not forced to are those who don't see you as a way to get more xp/loot/PvP kills/whatever else, but as another human being playing the same game they want to learn to know better.

Very well said.  It's funny how some people think that certain mechanics should force people to socialize, as if they are incapable of socializing on their own.

The most social people are those on voice chat, guild forums, guild chat, and roleplayers.  None of these are required by the game, but as optional socialization venues.

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1311

6/10/13 5:43:56 PM#78
Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Soki123

I m talking PVE, but I guess you missed that a few posts back. You can t compare GW2 to those 2 games when it comes to death penalty, and friendliness of the player base to GW2, that has next to no consequences, really just a minor annoyance. It s ok though you keep telling yourself they re the same in that aspect.

Ok let's talk about PvE then.

So you're just another of those people who think socialization is best when enforced by game mechanics. This has already been addressed several times in the thread. A harsh death penalty doesn't make real online "friends", it just forces players to use each other to reach their own goal.

The most social people are those who manage to socialize even without any of those mechanics trying to force them to. Those are the people who are naturally friendly towards others, and not the ones who need the game to tell them they need to make "false friends" to progress.

People forced to endure your presence by game mechanics (be it death penalty, forced grouping, forced raiding, etc...) aren't friends, they are co-workers. Some may become friends, but most will only be people using you to reach their own goal. People naturally going towards you trying to make contact even when not forced to are those who don't see you as a way to get more xp/loot/PvP kills/whatever else, but as another human being playing the same game they want to learn to know better.

Very well said.  It's funny how some people think that certain mechanics should force people to socialize, as if they are incapable of socializing on their own.

The most social people are those on voice chat, guild forums, guild chat, and roleplayers.  None of these are required by the game, but as optional socialization venues.

Never once have I said anything about what you re even talking about. I said in much harsher worlds, people were friendlier, and just more social in general. I can socialize fine and don t need any game mechanics to make it so, I just found GW2 was a very anti social game. These game mechanics making them not friends but co workers is laughable. When people would go out of their way to help you isn t work, it s kindness, those are the friends I want, not some number in a guild just to say I have a guild full of friends of x amount of people. My point is obviously going over some of your heads, so I ll just leave it at that.

  Semiel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/04
Posts: 81

6/12/13 8:59:06 AM#79

Where there is passion, there is conflict. The game is "friendly" because no-one really cares or has to care (by design).

  User Deleted
6/12/13 11:21:25 AM#80
Originally posted by Vorch

I think it's true, and it's not because of the community. The community is largely made up of the same people from other MMOs.

The reason it is so friendly is because ANet deliberately made it EXTREMELY hard to grief other people. You see this in PvE and even in WvW where enemy names are not shown.

In GW2, you play with other people, not against them.

 

That is 100% accurate. That article is just dumb (or it's just a promotion for GW2.. not that it needs it at ALL). 

Look, I like GW2, a lot. It's the best hot-key MMO you can get atm in my worthless opinion, but... it's community is the same old.

 

Like you said, ANet made it VERY hard to grief other people. It's not easy to kill steal, there is not much competition for killing mobs and resources (due to their abundance) and there is really no way to grief somebody without organizing an entire raid to somehow follow around one guy and insta-gib his mobs.

So.. no props to the GW2 community. Props to ANet for designing the game so well.

 

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