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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Should there be hunger in an mmorpg?

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140 posts found
  User Deleted
6/06/13 4:31:56 PM#121
Originally posted by Arclan

Best idea yet. Have starvation be a severe xp penalty.


As a level 8 paladin in EQ, I ran out of food and was totally lost. Thinking I might starve, I asked someone for help which is unlike me. A game-long friendship was born that day, one which would influence my gaming style evermore; and thus, I would go on to inspire numerous others (who told me as much). All because of a food/drink mechanism in the game.


I still remember my savior's name, "Whyye," and the adventures we had that day clearly.
BTW, I didn't realize until later that food has practically no effect in EQ, other than seeing "you are hungry" spammed every sixty seconds.

Even though it was just a misunderstanding, your example shows what a potential could lie in a decent hunger system in that it would urge (but not force!) the player into something interesting, a social interaction in this certain case. It just has to be done right and not another chore.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1704

6/06/13 4:55:36 PM#122

One of the better gaming experiences I've had recently has been in skyrim, heavily modified. Playing with exposure and hypothermia mods, as well as better night darkness (can't see very well). Additionally, a mod that adds cooking recipes and has some nice benefits to eating regularly. Combined with a camping mod, made for a highly an experience with high immersion. I basically just left Riverwood with supplies and started playing as a wandering hunter. All I need to find is some type of a trade merchant mod, and I think I would be set. It's the little things that can make a good game great.

Hunger would be an interesting mechanic. If I allow my hunger to go for so long, I have stat decreases and even minor dot damage. The only way to be completely full is to sit and have a full meal. Doing that yourself would take prep, or you could visit a tavern and just purchase a complete meal. That would wind up creating natural social opportunities, especially if Taverns could be built and run by players.

However, the problems you will run into is when you reach the elder game. What if dungeon running or raiding was the main pve elder game mechanic. So, before any run, you would need to make sure that everyone was fully fed, or else a hungry person could become a liability. What if the run was taking longer than expected? You'd have to stop to eat. While that may be interesting to some folks, and creates a very dynamic playing experience. How long before it just becomes a hassle?

There are a number of mechanics that can make any game interesting, but the implementation is the tricky part. If the mechanic can be largely ignored, then it's shallow. If it cannot be ignored and is unwieldy, then it becomes detrimental. Striking that perfect balance is nearly impossible.

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1641

6/06/13 4:59:12 PM#123
Originally posted by benseine

In this weeks behind the scenes edition of Gloria Victis the devs asked the fans if there should be hunger in Gloria Victis. A medieval sandbox mmorpg that aims for realism and low fantasy.

 

Would you like to see something like this in mmorpgs?

 

Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=599578913400599&id=352162408142252

 

 

Depends on what a player expects from playing a MMO, back in the old days MMO devs tried to emulate a virtual living world, with random weather, day/night cycles, etc etc etc.

Today MMO's usually don't have that stuff and are just quick moneycows with no virtual world emulation whatsoever.

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

6/06/13 5:02:04 PM#124
I like the idea of additinal resource management in mmos. Something other than what makes me attack or taunt.  Eating would be nice.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20659

6/06/13 5:09:16 PM#125
Originally posted by picommander
Originally posted by Arclan

Best idea yet. Have starvation be a severe xp penalty.


As a level 8 paladin in EQ, I ran out of food and was totally lost. Thinking I might starve, I asked someone for help which is unlike me. A game-long friendship was born that day, one which would influence my gaming style evermore; and thus, I would go on to inspire numerous others (who told me as much). All because of a food/drink mechanism in the game.


I still remember my savior's name, "Whyye," and the adventures we had that day clearly.
BTW, I didn't realize until later that food has practically no effect in EQ, other than seeing "you are hungry" spammed every sixty seconds.

Even though it was just a misunderstanding, your example shows what a potential could lie in a decent hunger system in that it would urge (but not force!) the player into something interesting, a social interaction in this certain case. It just has to be done right and not another chore.

For every player that beg and ask for food, 1000 more will go back to town every 15 min and complains endlessly about the chore.

Plus, if every one i met beg me for food, i will go insane. Thank god i can just hit the LFD button and don't see anyone who is not there to run a dungeon.

 

  BlizzardShill

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/13
Posts: 37

6/06/13 5:22:16 PM#126

It really depends on the game.  If it was an MMO about survival, then hunger certainly makes sense - as well as mechanics to work around it (like cooking).  Slapping it in a current MMO would probably just make things tedious.  I personally would not mind a 'basic needs' system that isn't too complex that it distracts from the actual game.  Good examples would probably be things like Frostfall / Basic Needs and Diseases for Skyrim, which give you a little something extra to worry about without completely taking over your game.

 

Some of the IRE MUDs handle hunger like this: from level 1-80 you can get hungry which may cause you to black out and other such issues when starving (though you don't instantly die from it).  Past level 80, though, your character is assumed to transcend the need for food.  By that level, a typical player has become involved in more and more player organizations and so the lack of hunger code is not only a driving goal, but a great relief.

  benseine

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 244

 
OP  6/07/13 11:02:16 AM#127
Originally posted by Kaneth

One of the better gaming experiences I've had recently has been in skyrim, heavily modified. Playing with exposure and hypothermia mods, as well as better night darkness (can't see very well). Additionally, a mod that adds cooking recipes and has some nice benefits to eating regularly. Combined with a camping mod, made for a highly an experience with high immersion. I basically just left Riverwood with supplies and started playing as a wandering hunter. All I need to find is some type of a trade merchant mod, and I think I would be set. It's the little things that can make a good game great.

Hunger would be an interesting mechanic. If I allow my hunger to go for so long, I have stat decreases and even minor dot damage. The only way to be completely full is to sit and have a full meal. Doing that yourself would take prep, or you could visit a tavern and just purchase a complete meal. That would wind up creating natural social opportunities, especially if Taverns could be built and run by players.

However, the problems you will run into is when you reach the elder game. What if dungeon running or raiding was the main pve elder game mechanic. So, before any run, you would need to make sure that everyone was fully fed, or else a hungry person could become a liability. What if the run was taking longer than expected? You'd have to stop to eat. While that may be interesting to some folks, and creates a very dynamic playing experience. How long before it just becomes a hassle?

There are a number of mechanics that can make any game interesting, but the implementation is the tricky part. If the mechanic can be largely ignored, then it's shallow. If it cannot be ignored and is unwieldy, then it becomes detrimental. Striking that perfect balance is nearly impossible.

Well Gloria Victis is not gonna be a mainstream mmo. There are no pve dungeons or instanced raiding planned to be developped as far as I know. In a common theme park hunger in dungeons/raid instances would be bad. 

They are aiming for realism and even partnered with Medieval Worlds, a company that specialize in historical and medieval model design, medieval architecture, weapons and interior design: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.591655890859568.1073741835.352162408142252&type=1 

Further more there will be a weather system with klimates and migration of wildlife. Not your typical mmo of today :)

  sanshi44

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1058

6/07/13 11:09:47 AM#128
I personaly loved the hunger system in Everquest 1, Basicly there were lots of food some filled you up more than others, it will automaticly eat them from your inventoy starting with the first slot moving onto last slot, there was food made from the cooking skill that gave bonus stats when it was in your first slot of your inventory which would give u permanent stat bonus for aslong as it stays in that slow (so until you eat it since it priotitise that food first) If you run out of food you will become startving/thirsty which reduced your HP/stamina/mana regen and i beleive reduced your stats a little aswell. Its wasnt to much of a hassle of a system because you didnt have to activly eat the food it will do it itself when u get hungry or thirsty so you just need to remember to stock up on more food when you head back to town. Also to add to the immersion some zones such as the oasis of marr (Dessert area) you would drink your water at a much faster pace so if you had to prepare and bring more water when farming in these areas cause u will go through it quickly.
  ReallyNow10

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1724

Don't give us stories. Give us worlds and we will make our own stories.

6/07/13 5:28:52 PM#129
Originally posted by sanshi44
I personaly loved the hunger system in Everquest 1, Basicly there were lots of food some filled you up more than others, it will automaticly eat them from your inventoy starting with the first slot moving onto last slot, there was food made from the cooking skill that gave bonus stats when it was in your first slot of your inventory which would give u permanent stat bonus for aslong as it stays in that slow (so until you eat it since it priotitise that food first) If you run out of food you will become startving/thirsty which reduced your HP/stamina/mana regen and i beleive reduced your stats a little aswell. Its wasnt to much of a hassle of a system because you didnt have to activly eat the food it will do it itself when u get hungry or thirsty so you just need to remember to stock up on more food when you head back to town. Also to add to the immersion some zones such as the oasis of marr (Dessert area) you would drink your water at a much faster pace so if you had to prepare and bring more water when farming in these areas cause u will go through it quickly.

Agreed.  It was simple, minimal or no hassle, it worked, it made me feel a little more immersed in the game, and gave crafters an extra profession.

Was also funny if you didn't position some "ingredient" correctly in your backpack and ended up eating it as rations, hehe.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

6/07/13 6:01:13 PM#130

Gloria Victis sounds awesome. Will try to keep an eye on it.



Originally posted by Kaneth
One of the better gaming experiences I've had recently has been in skyrim, heavily modified. Playing with exposure and hypothermia mods, as well as better night darkness (can't see very well). Additionally, a mod that adds cooking recipes and has some nice benefits to eating regularly. Combined with a camping mod, made for a highly an experience with high immersion. I basically just left Riverwood with supplies and started playing as a wandering hunter. All I need to find is some type of a trade merchant mod, and I think I would be set. It's the little things that can make a good game great.

Hunger would be an interesting mechanic. If I allow my hunger to go for so long, I have stat decreases and even minor dot damage. The only way to be completely full is to sit and have a full meal. Doing that yourself would take prep, or you could visit a tavern and just purchase a complete meal. That would wind up creating natural social opportunities, especially if Taverns could be built and run by players.

However, the problems you will run into is when you reach the elder game. What if dungeon running or raiding was the main pve elder game mechanic. So, before any run, you would need to make sure that everyone was fully fed, or else a hungry person could become a liability. What if the run was taking longer than expected? You'd have to stop to eat. While that may be interesting to some folks, and creates a very dynamic playing experience. How long before it just becomes a hassle?

There are a number of mechanics that can make any game interesting, but the implementation is the tricky part. If the mechanic can be largely ignored, then it's shallow. If it cannot be ignored and is unwieldy, then it becomes detrimental. Striking that perfect balance is nearly impossible.



Very cool. Wish I could play your Skyrim mod! And, I love the idea of someone building an inn/tavern at some local hot spot; letting adventurers come sit and eat. They could make the mechanic like old EQ's meditate button. Where you have to sit and click "eat." But you can click it just once, and will continue to eat until full or until you stand up. Player can socialize or watch TV IRL or heaven forbid get up and take a shower or clean up the place.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20659

6/07/13 6:13:36 PM#131
Originally posted by Arclan


Very cool. Wish I could play your Skyrim mod! And, I love the idea of someone building an inn/tavern at some local hot spot; letting adventurers come sit and eat. They could make the mechanic like old EQ's meditate button. Where you have to sit and click "eat." But you can click it just once, and will continue to eat until full or until you stand up. Player can socialize or watch TV IRL or heaven forbid get up and take a shower or clean up the place.

I remember that. That was a horrible gameplay design, forcing players to stare at the spellbook (and later the scene in one direction) for 10 min.

I am glad most games won't do that.

And you think watching TV or taking shower should be part of a video game? If i want to do those things, i go do those things. When i play a video game, i don't want the game to force me to watch tv. That defeat the purpose of playing a video game.

  User Deleted
6/07/13 6:30:43 PM#132
I prefer games that provide several different play styles: Times that demand my 100% attention and times/situations where I can go lazy. When it's watching TV or taking a shower - if the situation alows it so why not? I prefer games that offer a maximum of freedom.
  crack_fox

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 402

6/07/13 9:01:14 PM#133
Originally posted by Kaneth

One of the better gaming experiences I've had recently has been in skyrim, heavily modified. Playing with exposure and hypothermia mods, as well as better night darkness (can't see very well). Additionally, a mod that adds cooking recipes and has some nice benefits to eating regularly. Combined with a camping mod, made for a highly an experience with high immersion. I basically just left Riverwood with supplies and started playing as a wandering hunter. All I need to find is some type of a trade merchant mod, and I think I would be set. It's the little things that can make a good game great.

 

I'm currently playing Skyrim, heavily-modded and with self-imposed restrictions on movement speed, carry-weight, fast -travel etc. I find such restrictions add tremendously to a game that I had previously found too easy to be engaging. For me, a certain degree of inconvenience in a game usually makes for a more rewarding experience.

However, the point at which the burden of inconvenience goes from desirable to detrimental differs from player to player. What works for me in Skyrim would not necessarily work for another player in the same game; finding a happy medium that would suit everyone in a MMO would be quite unrealistic. There really is nothing to be gained by imposing such mechanics in  MMOs when the majority of the players are not interested in 'immersion' and are instead focused on rapid progression and content consumption. If immersion is your goal then your best tool is your imagination (as it has always been since the first pnp rpgs). You don't necessarily need to see your character eating, recovering arrows from corpses or fletching new ones to allow yourself to believe that they do these things.

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1128

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

6/07/13 9:06:12 PM#134
Originally posted by benseine

In this weeks behind the scenes edition of Gloria Victis the devs asked the fans if there should be hunger in Gloria Victis. A medieval sandbox mmorpg that aims for realism and low fantasy.

 

Would you like to see something like this in mmorpgs?

 

Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=599578913400599&id=352162408142252

 

 

More annoying than realistic to me.  I like my games more whimsical and cartoon looking since its a game.  EQ2 has hunger and I always hated that I had to have bread and water provisioned.

  Bianconiglio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/13
Posts: 1

7/25/13 9:52:51 AM#135

Agree with who says "it dependes on the kind of game". But we are moving towards a more sandbox game, players want the world to run as they predicted, thay want to shape their stories. Such worlds cannot be a part of economy and politics, power games and much more complex and fine strategy than the simple "go and kill" as too many mmorpg did until now. Since sandbox and jobs cannot be separated and jobs and economy cannot be separated I think that an hunger and thirst are not only to be implemented, but they are the engine of the world economy. Economy by definition lies on needs. No needs = no economy. Why should I do the cook or the farmer if the players do not NEED to buy my food?
Farming, hunting, cooking an so on would not be worth to exist, would not have any utility at all. They would only be a "cosmetic" componet of the game.
A realistic game, such as Black Desert, would surely need to implement a hunger thirst system in order to make economy go.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20659

7/25/13 2:24:03 PM#136

Will it make the game more fun?

If i have to spend my game-time managing (i.e. buying, keeping inv ...) bread ... then no. That is a trivial chore with no challenge and no fun.

 

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

7/25/13 3:35:22 PM#137
Only if food is as easy to get as in Minecraft. Otherwise, it becomes a tedium.

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  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3664

7/25/13 3:38:01 PM#138

I didn't mind hunger as a mechanic in EQ1 - it was a constant necessity, and a way to provide a small stat boost if you were careful about it. It also made the cooking craft seem a bit more relevant. You needed to eat something (and more of it if you rode your horse). I kinda liked it, it made the game seem more like a virtual world than a game.

I didn't care for it in WoW where it was just a cheap buff/healing component, and it wasn't considered a necessity. It was just another buff for the min-maxers and there was "the right food" and everything else was pretty well junk.

Although I always thought, if there was hunger, shouldn't there also be bathroom breaks?

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1638

7/25/13 3:40:15 PM#139

I'm often getting hungry while playing MMOs, does that count? I recommend eating cheesy poofs and Doritos

 

btw Fallout New Vegas has a fun hardcore mode, you have to drink water to prevent dehydration.

Got it off steam during the summer sale for 3 bucks.. epic deal

  Vaross

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/21/12
Posts: 415

7/25/13 6:19:51 PM#140
Please do not necro old threads.
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