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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Marvel Heroes: F2P Isn't a Charity

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169 posts found
  blazzen67

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/13
Posts: 67

6/06/13 8:46:12 AM#141
i dont get the complaining about having to pay either. The people that makes these MMO's and maintain them, add new content , work 24/7 on fixing bugs that pop up and on and on and on do not work for free. Do any of you work for free or would want to work for free? if you dont like a subscription based MMO or having to pay for the better content, then there is an easy solution..dont play it.
  Benbrada

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/04
Posts: 241

6/06/13 9:04:12 AM#142
Originally posted by Fendel84M

Free to play means it is free to play. Which it is, people argue it's not really free to play, but you can literally play for free.

What is the problem?

Yeah Fendel my thoughts exactly, WTH am I missing that these naysayers are seeing? Rread through this list of comments and one or two people suggest MH is P2W??? Huh?

 

I agree with you completely MikeB then I read the list of comments and just end up disgusted by some conversation.

 

  Segun777

Jade Dynasty Correspondent

Joined: 6/22/09
Posts: 98

6/06/13 9:36:37 AM#143
+1 Thank goodness people are finally saying it, this article and Coke's article, I don't know if F2P is the future but gamers still don't get it.  Games need to make money or there will be no games.... acting like children that want to eat nothing but cake and not suffer the consequences.
  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1615

6/06/13 9:54:37 AM#144

Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

  Holice

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/08
Posts: 118

6/06/13 11:41:03 AM#145

Thanks again for reiterating the constant ridiculous criticism that completely misses the point of those opposed to some F2P pricing models.

Not once have I ever seen someone say, "Give me EVERYTHING for free." Instead the issue is when the game costs more per month to play "ENJOYABLY" then the old way of $15 sub. For instance, I bought the PP for $60 bucks, standard price for a game, similar to what I bought TOR for. In TOR I was able to play any class/race combination I wanted and got the first month free. In this game, I ended up with only 4 heroes from the pack, (but they didn't let you customize), my free hero at the start, and then a guaranteed free hero after the raft(which again I did not want). Thus I had to spend additional money to get the 2 other heros that I wanted to play and one was 2k G's($20) and the other 1.2k G's($12). So in the first month I have already spent $92 dollars on a game, that a traditional mmo with sub would have only costed me $60.

In addition, you have to buy your STASH tabs, which is your bank, and yes i said "Have To" because if you want to craft at all, there is not enough room in the single tab you get. Then, if you buy costumes because you want to change your look, which in a standard mmo equates to new gear styles, that's an additional amount, and each one is around $10+. So you could easily spend $200 on this game just to get the heros you want, the costumes you want on them, and the necessities of storage.

So in a traditional mmo, $200 gets you the game at ($60) and 9 months of game time. In this game, 9 months has ZERO guarantee of finding new hero's and more items to fill your stash with. Thus you will be buying new heros(Most LIkely) and more storage space and probably costumes.

Thus, games like this, with their ridiculous price points actually cost more than sub based games.  And unfortunately the only option is to not buy stuff, but then the game isn't as fun if you can't do what you want in it.

So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

6/06/13 11:50:21 AM#146
Originally posted by Holice

So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

Is Bill not the same fellow that accused users who protected themselves by blocking the advertising to be freeloading from this site?

Sorry if that was someone else, Bill.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

6/06/13 12:27:42 PM#147
Originally posted by Antiquated
Originally posted by Holice

So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

Is Bill not the same fellow that accused users who protected themselves by blocking the advertising to be freeloading from this site?

Sorry if that was someone else, Bill.

 Whoever said that needs to know that people have the right to use Adblocker or any other tool and that person needs to come to the understanding that life's not fair deal with it. If I have to pay outrageous prices on a video game like Marvel Heroes than they'll have to deal with me not clicking on all of their little advertisements.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Ryowulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 671

6/06/13 12:28:09 PM#148

As far as ftp goes look to itunes. You pay a little bit of money and get a song.  People end up buying a lot of songs and spending more money than they might have otherwise.

The problem with some ftp mmos is finding the right amount to charge. A bag for 20? A mount for 30?  

Is it better to have some people buy items that cost a lot or lots of people buying items that cost a little?

I think ftp games are still trying to find that balance.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

6/06/13 12:35:35 PM#149
Originally posted by Segun777
+1 Thank goodness people are finally saying it, this article and Coke's article, I don't know if F2P is the future but gamers still don't get it.  Games need to make money or there will be no games.... acting like children that want to eat nothing but cake and not suffer the consequences.

 People with your mindset are the same people in which the gaming industry thrive on. That's why we pay $60.00 USD now for games instead of $49.99 USD. With your post you also egg the game industry on to continue their price increases. Enjoy paying for cash shop items when they're 50-60 dollars a pop in the not too distant future.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6733

6/06/13 12:37:58 PM#150
Originally posted by udon

Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

You must be playing a different game than the rest of us.  Prices in the cash shop are quite high.  The cash shop is definitely in the upper echelon when it comes to pricing.  Not as bad as Neverwinter, but not good either.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

6/06/13 12:42:22 PM#151
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by udon

Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

You must be playing a different game than the rest of us.  Prices in the cash shop are quite high.  The cash shop is definitely in the upper echelon when it comes to pricing.  Not as bad as Neverwinter, but not good either.

I find the pricing in Marvel quite questionable to Neverwinter's though. While yes it's "cheaper" but if you're bored and want to play different characters you're paying ~9-20 dollars per heroes. Unless you're lucky enough to get them through gameplay. While Neverwinter really only has a few mounts and bags in the game that's worth while. Even though those cost ~10-40 as well. There's significantly fewer reasons to purchase from the Neverwinter Cash Shop.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  superniceguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

6/06/13 12:46:35 PM#152

What puts me off this game is the huge prices. It costs £190 across 3 content packs, and that is just too much for a virtual online game - what if it tanks or they end up in financial trouble and it shuts down and what you bought is then lost. I would more likely buy it if it was not free and cost £40. Then they put effort in adding more DLC for £5-10 over time, like most games, especially DCUO. I may in the end spend more than £200 over the years if that is the case, but £190 (or £65 for one pack) in one go on day one, no way

 

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1615

6/06/13 1:20:10 PM#153
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by udon

Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

You must be playing a different game than the rest of us.  Prices in the cash shop are quite high.  The cash shop is definitely in the upper echelon when it comes to pricing.  Not as bad as Neverwinter, but not good either.

I will take a up front and honest expensive cash shop over one with hidden costs anyday.  In my book if a F2P game has slo machine boxes that drop exclusive items or a cash to in game currency conversation option it's a bad cash shop.

I bought the Avengers Assembled pack with 3 heroes I wanted to play and got $55 in currency as well.  That's enough to buy all the crafting bank slots and a couple more X-Men with some to spare.  Maybe in a few months I'll want to buy another hero or a costume or two but it's still much less than Neverwinter will cost you in the same time especially if you want that slot machine mount not to mention the upcoming costs of upgrading companions or crafting better gear.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

6/06/13 1:20:18 PM#154
Originally posted by superniceguy

What puts me off this game is the huge prices. It costs £190 across 3 content packs, and that is just too much for a virtual online game - what if it tanks or they end up in financial trouble and it shuts down and what you bought is then lost. I would more likely buy it if it was not free and cost £40. Then they put effort in adding more DLC for £5-10 over time, like most games, especially DCUO. I may in the end spend more than £200 over the years if that is the case, but £190 (or £65 for one pack) in one go on day one, no way

 

 Yet people on this topic are okay with paying the high prices in this game. I don't understand why are people willing to pay more for less?


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  jonrd463

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/24/09
Posts: 608

6/06/13 1:21:28 PM#155
Originally posted by Holice

Thanks again for reiterating the constant ridiculous criticism that completely misses the point of those opposed to some F2P pricing models.

Not once have I ever seen someone say, "Give me EVERYTHING for free." Instead the issue is when the game costs more per month to play "ENJOYABLY" then the old way of $15 sub.

Could you please state what the empirical, fact-based definition of "enjoyably" is?

Hint: You can't. It's a subjective opinion.

"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  Vlacke

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/15/11
Posts: 156

6/06/13 1:50:21 PM#156

I agree with this article.

First of all it has to be said that Marvel heroes is indeed a free to play ARPG game, you choose one hero at the beginning and get two more random heroes by the time you finish the story, complete the game, the entire game can be played for free but if you want to start with your favorite hero you will have to dip in the shop.

All heroes and all costumes can be acquired via in game drops but of course the drop rate for those is very, very low, it should also be noted that selling heroes is the only way for them to make money in order to further improve the game, and the game needs some improvements in various departments indeed but that is an entirely different story.

Some people just feel that they are entitled to get everything for free and are very loud with their complaints when that isn't the case, which is ridiculous in my honest opinion.

At least unlike the majority of free to play titles Marvels cash shop doesn't reek of pay to win.

Out of all free to play games it has to be said that Path of Exile genuinely stands out as a truly f2p game and the creators of said game should be given a lot of credit for that, however that is a rare, maybe even an unique exception in the current market.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/06/13 2:35:14 PM#157
$20 to unlock a character when you could buy a whole arpg for the same price certainly isn't charity.
  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

6/06/13 2:49:08 PM#158
Originally posted by ShakyMo
$20 to unlock a character when you could buy a whole arpg for the same price certainly isn't charity.

Yeah, lets just call this game Highway Robbery


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

6/06/13 3:48:34 PM#159
Originally posted by Vlacke

I agree with this article.

First of all it has to be said that Marvel heroes is indeed a free to play ARPG game, you choose one hero at the beginning and get two more random heroes by the time you finish the story, complete the game, the entire game can be played for free but if you want to start with your favorite hero you will have to dip in the shop.

All heroes and all costumes can be acquired via in game drops but of course the drop rate for those is very, very low, it should also be noted that selling heroes is the only way for them to make money in order to further improve the game, and the game needs some improvements in various departments indeed but that is an entirely different story.

Some people just feel that they are entitled to get everything for free and are very loud with their complaints when that isn't the case, which is ridiculous in my honest opinion.

At least unlike the majority of free to play titles Marvels cash shop doesn't reek of pay to win.

Out of all free to play games it has to be said that Path of Exile genuinely stands out as a truly f2p game and the creators of said game should be given a lot of credit for that, however that is a rare, maybe even an unique exception in the current market.

  I've seen many posts where people (myself included) believe that games cash shop and bundle packs are absurdly overpriced. We're okay with paying for the game. However, we're not okay with paying with the prices this company has laid out for us. and Michael Bitton is slapping the customers on the wrist for not buying these bundles when they had the chance, essentially punished the customers before the game was even reviewed or released. Michael clearly states, 

"Free-to-Play isn’t a charity. I realize this is obvious to most of you reading this today, but there appears to be a subset of MMO gamers who look at Free-to-Play games with a sense of entitlement that honestly bewilders me. I’ve been reading commentary along these lines for a variety of games for quite a while now, and while it’s been grinding my gears to some extent, it’s finally come to a head with the recent release of Gazillion Entertainment’s new F2P MMOARPG (yep, that’s a mouthful!), Marvel Heroes."

"The folks at Gazillion pretty much bent over backwards to give gamers ample opportunities to pick up their favorite heroes either individually or bundled together on the run-up to launch and these packs or bundles included half or more of their total cost in bonus cash shop currency as well as skins and bank tabs for each hero available in their respective pack."

 

Michael then goes on stating that they've had friends who'd easily drop 30 dollars on two separate games in the same day. Good for them, I wish I was able to do that. I have a friend who buys 4-5 games a night but these people aren't the normal customers. Michael also stated that this games Cash Shop closely resembles League of Legends. Okay fine it price point does resemble League of Legends but when you start to actually look at the prices in reality; Marvel Heroes is still more expensive that League of Legends in terms of individual purchases. Even League of Legends bundle packs are significantly cheaper than Marvel Heroes.

 I'm by no means willing to purchase a game for $79.99 - $84.99 those prices are outrageous when comparing this game to any and every Action RPG on the market. You state that Path of Exile is a rare case where the game's truly free-to-play. Which is true it's rare in the Action RPG department because it's the only F2P Action RPG I've seen released. Which means it made up 100% of the F2P Action RPG market at the time. Does that truly make it a rare case? No.

 Now lets look at this game from a B2P perspective. If you wanted to purchase this game for $79.99 - $84.99 which are the prices on the bundle packs. You're already overpricing the game even on the same turns with the newest Action RPGs that was recently released: Diablo 3 is sitting at $59.99. A far superior game in terms of gameplay and character customization. You're already paying $19.99-24.99 more than Diablo 3. Comparing this game to Torchlight 2 you're paying $39.99-44.99 dollars more than that game. Torchlight 2 is again a far superior game when it comes to gameplay and character customization. Not only does Torchlight 2 offer all of this for only $19.99 but they have an entire community dedicated to producing more content and classes for the game. All of which is free.

 What about the quality of gameplay within Marvel Heroes. What does this game have to offer? Well this game offers many of  your favorite Marvel Heroes. I personally played Hawkeye and The Thing. My time through the game was quite boring and when you got to the bosses; they were some of the most lack luster boss fights I've seen. You simply attack 5 times and move slightly out of the way you rinse and repeat this strategy for almost every boss fight in the game. There's not even the industry standard of Hardcore mode that's available for customers.

There aren't even difficulty levels for the game. The game only scales depending on how many players are in a specific zone. This means that the game only has 1/3 of the longevity compared to other Action RPG titles that usually unlock 2-3 additional difficulties after finishing the game through a previous difficulty. We get the easy mode and that's about it. Once you get to level 35 the games main campaign has essentially ended and you'll have to grind the rest of the way. You'll occasionally get a mission key to drop if you're not looking to pay for them in the cash shop. Which means you'll be forced to fight over mob spawns for extended periods of time.

 How does this game rate in terms of graphics? This game uses the Unreal Engine. Which typically means I have high hopes for a quality product. However, this games graphics to me look worse than Marvel Super Alliance 2. Which is a game that was released in 2009. I truly wish they put more effort into this game because seeing these lack luster graphics are not something I expect from a developer working with the Unreal Engine.

Why should people support a company that's charging significantly more than the competition?

Should Marvel Heroes be an unique exception for lack luster gameplay, graphics, and replayability all for a more expensive price tag?


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  MMOGamer71

Elite Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1610

6/06/13 4:35:40 PM#160

Free-to-Play isn’t a charity?

Expecting players to pay for overpriced "starter packs" or "Beta Access" so others can play for free is though. 

That's the real problem with F2P.  Those that are really interested in a game get gouged (see $$) so 20 people passing by from game to game can "play for free" in the hope that 1 gets interested.

 

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