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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Marvel Heroes: F2P Isn't a Charity

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169 posts found
  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2852

6/06/13 1:37:18 AM#121
Originally posted by thinktank001

If they aren't willing to develop a revenue stream that fits their game, then they should get every complaint that comes their way.   

 

Why would they copy LOL's cash shop and think it will work fine for an entirely different game?  

 You should see my gameplay. It's quite funny. Bosses have a pattern which is extremely simple to follow. Attack 3-5 times then walk away, attack 3-5 times then walk away, rinse and repeat until the boss is dead. There's also no hardcore mode. How do you create an Action RPG without the hardcore mode?


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Keilani

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/11
Posts: 17

We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

6/06/13 3:24:05 AM#122

I agree. People tend to see F2P games as something given to them and that it should stay free for ever and everything should be free. I don't mind using real money on an mmorpg that's F2P (I don't play P2P because I never get the money I spend on it out of the game). 

If I enjoy a game then sure, I can even spend more than the price of a sub on an F2P mmo. In fact, paying for CS items (for me it's mainly costumes or things that make the grind easier, like pets or sometimes exp scrolls) you show that you support the game and that you enjoy it.

Where else should publishers take their money for the time and effort invested in an F2P mmo if not from CS? Just don't overdo it and don't put stuff like gears in the cash shop or stuff that are too easy to make you overpowered. And if you must place stuff in cash shop that allow you to enhance your gears, don't make people pay hundreds of euros/dollars for it but lower the prices, it attracks more people into buying things and you'll sell more then. Plus make those enhance equipment things also drop in game. Like Blade 9 does. It's a heavy cash shop (and P2W game) but you don't have to buy gems from the cs, they also drop in dungeons.

To recap: Paying for an F2P mmo isn't as bad as people tend to say. These days every F2P mmo is P2W for those who just refuse to spend at least a 10 or 15 dollar a month to get something. People expect also too much instead of just enjoying the game. 

  mordaki987

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/08
Posts: 39

6/06/13 3:33:57 AM#123
sigh what yall don't seem to understand here buisness or not it is unfair to those of us that don't have the money to support these games.  we shouldn't have to pay 20 dollars or more to be able to unlock a hero or a character class.  those things and services should be free up front.  not to mention the fact that from my understanding hero token drops are a mere 0.02% which is a poor drop rate indeed to be able to get the hero token or character for free.  some of us in reality outside of the game live at poverty level and have to use their money for bills, groceries and real life necessities that require us to be able to live and survive.  we can't be spending our money frivolously on in game items, characters or gear.  i don't care if it irks you or not.  the reality of it is that particular services a free to play game offers should be free.  i mean if someone wants a costume or skin for their character then sure charge real money for it but a character or character class that is not something we should be forced to pay for!  
  scritty

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 89

6/06/13 4:08:24 AM#124

I won a car on a game show but complained to the producers that it wasn't really free. Every time it runs out of gas they refuse to fill it back up for me. Then there is road tax, insurance and maintenance. They don't pay that either.

Or am I whigeing and wining like an entitled brat?

Free To Play. Can you download and play the game FOR FREE. Answer Yes. Therefore it is Free To Play.

This business is unfair? You are joking right?  Business is BUSINESS. It's about making money or it wouldn't be called BUSINESS.

No one in their right mind is going to make a game worth playing with set up costs and huge ongoing overheads and make 100% of the game 100% free

Likewise - the idea that people will pay a premium just for cosmetic changes also does not stand up. These games want people to stay and NEEDS SOME OF THEM TO PAY for the medium term. Being offered "a different colored hat" isn't something that many could be bothered to pay for.

Folks this is so basic it's face palming simple. Games HAVE TO MAKE MONEY OR THEY DON'T GET DEVELOPED OR SUPPORTED.

PEOPLE WON'T PAY LONG TERM FOR  "COSMETIC" ITEMS

If you can't afford to buy faster leveling, a different character, more inventory space

TOUGH!

Can you download and play the game indefinitely?

If you can then it is "Free To Play" - that doesn't mean "Free To Expand" "Free To Level Quicker" "Free Extra Characters" or "Free Larger Inventory"

It means...,"Free To Play".... and it is.

How entitled do some of you whiners feel? LIfe is like that - always has been. Can't afford something TOUGH! YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE IT... SIMPLE

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/06/13 4:33:16 AM#125
Originally posted by scritty

I won a car on a game show but complained to the producers that it wasn't really free. Every time it runs out of gas they refuse to fill it back up for me. Then there is road tax, insurance and maintenance. They don't pay that either.

Or am I whigeing and wining like an entitled brat?

Free To Play. Can you download and play the game FOR FREE. Answer Yes. Therefore it is Free To Play.

This business is unfair? You are joking right?  Business is BUSINESS. It's about making money or it wouldn't be called BUSINESS.

No one in their right mind is going to make a game worth playing with set up costs and huge ongoing overheads and make 100% of the game 100% free

Likewise - the idea that people will pay a premium just for cosmetic changes also does not stand up. These games want people to stay and NEEDS SOME OF THEM TO PAY for the medium term. Being offered "a different colored hat" isn't something that many could be bothered to pay for.

Folks this is so basic it's face palming simple. Games HAVE TO MAKE MONEY OR THEY DON'T GET DEVELOPED OR SUPPORTED.

PEOPLE WON'T PAY LONG TERM FOR  "COSMETIC" ITEMS

If you can't afford to buy faster leveling, a different character, more inventory space

TOUGH!

Can you download and play the game indefinitely?

If you can then it is "Free To Play" - that doesn't mean "Free To Expand" "Free To Level Quicker" "Free Extra Characters" or "Free Larger Inventory"

It means...,"Free To Play".... and it is.

How entitled do some of you whiners feel? LIfe is like that - always has been. Can't afford something TOUGH! YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE IT... SIMPLE

Becouse i dont wanne pork some coins out dont mean i can't afford it matter fact i can easly bring in enough to support game by myself hahaha (ok bit exa here) but for me if game is free2 play i won't spent a dime in cashshop but im also never complaining if i dont have it all then or then go to forums whine about, no SIR im not..

I rather pay 15euro a month and buy the game then pay 1 dime in free two play game.

Free two play is free two play for me i always speak with my wallet that is very powerful tool.

Many free two play fail also becouse guys like me dl and play those games but spent ZERO in cashshops im freeloader:P

 

DRM/CASHSHOPS/DLC only excists becouse of thieves who steal games from net.

Ive on my shelves at home maybe 100+ games all bought and payed for in gameshops or on steam.

So im not willing to pay for games that have those drm restrictions-cs or dlc.

  jonrd463

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/24/09
Posts: 608

6/06/13 4:36:07 AM#126

"blah blah blah if it's not free to play don't call it free to play blah blah blah"

 

They ARE free to play. Case in point: I'm playing the hell out of Neverwinter. I'm level 22. I'm enjoying the game and haven't dropped one dime, save the percentage of my cable bill that covers the bandwidth I used to download and play.

 

They're not called "Free to play the whole damned thing, all inclusive, pets, mounts, YOU NAME IT, BABY!" They're called "Free to play". And they are.

 

I swear, there are times when I feel like a  sense of entitlement should be a capital crime.

"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  User Deleted
6/06/13 4:43:33 AM#127
Originally posted by mordaki987
sigh what yall don't seem to understand here buisness or not it is unfair to those of us that don't have the money to support these games.  we shouldn't have to pay 20 dollars or more to be able to unlock a hero or a character class.  those things and services should be free up front.  not to mention the fact that from my understanding hero token drops are a mere 0.02% which is a poor drop rate indeed to be able to get the hero token or character for free.  some of us in reality outside of the game live at poverty level and have to use their money for bills, groceries and real life necessities that require us to be able to live and survive.  we can't be spending our money frivolously on in game items, characters or gear.  i don't care if it irks you or not.  the reality of it is that particular services a free to play game offers should be free.  i mean if someone wants a costume or skin for their character then sure charge real money for it but a character or character class that is not something we should be forced to pay for!  

Then how could you have ever afforded a $60 box + $15 a month? As the title said, its not a charity. If people dont pay for the game, it doesnt get developed.  F2P changes it from upfront fees for content you may never use, to paying for exactly what you want.

  Merklynn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/10
Posts: 74

6/06/13 4:56:04 AM#128
Like all f2p titles you need to expect to pay more for the flashier items. As it stands you get the game and your choice of starter hero (Thing, Daredevil, Hawkeye, Storm or Scarlet Witch) to adventure with. Now we all have our favorites and if by playing the game you aren't lucky enough to get the hero drop you love just go with it. Chances are one playthrough is all most casual players will do anyway & by then you've seen it all except for future expansions or special events. I do own the Ultimate Pack and still think the whole D2/Marvel idea is pretty cool concept but I can see how people can get upset when seeing high prices in a cash shop. If you really feel everthing is too expensive vote with your dollars by not buying anything unreasonable then either the company lowers prices or offers better deals in general.
Merklynn Xfire Miniprofile
  jonrd463

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/24/09
Posts: 608

6/06/13 5:34:58 AM#129

Here's a solution to those of you unhappy with what Marvel Heroes has to offer:

 

Don't play it.

 

No, I'm serious. At what point does the divergence of a game's features from what you desire relegate the game into "Not something I'm interested in" territory? Now, I don't have a dog in the proverbial fight, because I have no interest in the game, but I'm interested in the mindset here that demands a game conform to desire.

 

Would you rail against a tricycle manufacturer if what you really want is a bicycle? Would you stand in front of an Olive Garden protesting because they don't sell tacos? Seriously, if the game doesn't meet your expectations and desires, exercise your free market right to not buy into it.

 

Anyway, see you guys later... I just found out the Madden series isn't a First Person Shooter, and I've got angry emails to write.

"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  Ahil6

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 12

6/06/13 6:55:48 AM#130

Spot on article, a large part of the online community these days feels a sense of entitlement.

I don't mind paying for a few things if I enjoy the game, and it's a way for the game to generate revenue.

So many of the folks ranting in game do not understand how a business works. They expect new games and content to be given to them free, let someone else pay for their free ride.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2668

6/06/13 7:18:42 AM#131

It is easy vote with your wallets.

It is fun how P2P defenders often complain of freeloaders or that they would pay $30 or $50 per month for games that would give them what they want or special servers but then they bash people that spend more than them in fp2 games and whine because they can't have everything in a f2p game.

What if someone spends $200 in MH and likes it so much they play it for 1 year? That is about the same as people spend in a sub MMORPG.

Sure, f2p games lure people to buy stuff early on, but p2p games also lure people to keep paying.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  RelGn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/05
Posts: 515

6/06/13 7:53:00 AM#132

Their model is fine.

They give you some starter heroes to play for free and see the game and if you want to play another hero you have to pay.

How many off you payed for the diablo 3 60 bucks and you realised in the end that it was not worthy.

Marvel heroes is a great game and you can play the game with only spending money to buy your favorite hero

  Denambren

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/08
Posts: 317

6/06/13 7:53:51 AM#133

As far as F2P titles go, Marvel Heroes is not too bad, imo. The game seems completely playable without paying money.

 

I think the fact that Marvel Heroes plays like a Diablo game, is fairly polished, and is quite popular due to the IP, makes people very upset because this genre of game is typically a buy to play model. You look at games like Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Titan Quest, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, etc, and we've all got accustomed to the B2P.

 

Personally, I give Marvel Heroes a 5 out of 10 score and would never have paid 59.99$ for it as a boxed game. But since it's free, I play it here and there, and would consider paying maybe 5 to 10 dollars for a costume. I guess in this way, Gazillion may just get money from me, where normally they'd never get a dime from my pocket as B2P because the game just isn't good enough to pay full price.  When I look at it that way, I guess F2P worked for them on one customer. And it may be the same for many others. It's kind of an ugly truth that F2P helps generate revenue for mediocre games (thus the reason all those failed MMOs have turned to F2P).

 

Unlike so many games converted to F2P however, I do feel Marvel Heroes is fair with letting you play the game without having to pay money.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

6/06/13 7:55:39 AM#134

So now the pressure starts, pay up if your a "real" gamer.

I knew this would happen, now game devs are trying to make us feel guilty for not spending money in their cash shops.

If only they would realized that we gamers don't mind shelling out money for quality, not for cheap thrills and 5 hours on content, then they might see some cash flow.

There are games like DAOC that are still going, and people are still paying the sub.

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1614

6/06/13 7:58:53 AM#135
Originally posted by Ironman2000
Originally posted by Wicoa

The price of characters is too much in my opinion especially since you need to buy banking space and costumes? To be frank I was put off before launch, the price of the founders packs were rediculous, go ahead and tell me again that the store value was worth it. All I saw was that the packs cost 200$ and thats half the price of an xbox one.

 

Too much, even for the marvel name.

Seriously, what part of you get to pick 1 of 5 heroes (Storm, Daredevil, Scarlet Witch, Thing, and Hawkeye), each has their own style of play from tank to crowd control to straight DPS, to start with and can get the rest as drops in the game for free, don't you understand?  I played for a day and already have Colossus as a drop.  I have a friend who got the Hulk in his first 6 hours.  You can get ANYTHING that you would buy from the STORE as a drop in the game....Don't get me wrong either, I was really pissed during the whole "You lost my account during early access?" crowd (but they have since made it right with me and are still making it right with the people involved in that).  So while you can get everything for free, those of us that payed for packs got boned a little at the start.  So don't act like you can't get things in the game for free, you can get the WHOLE game for free...

 

I mean seriously, try Neverwinter, you want to talk about screwing you for cash...they say they are still in beta but the money grab there is in full swing.  Marvel Heroes and Gazillion look like a saint compared to Perfect World....

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you but neither do I play a cryptic game due to the cost of the cash shop.  I want to point out that I am not a cheapo, I used to subscribe to city of heroes, I also used to buy their costume packs for sheer fun, I was kind of hoping that would help support the devs.  I'd be much more comfortable if games like these launched with a small sub fee say 5$ a month (lets face it its not a triple AAA mmorpg) than charge what they do in the shop.

 

When a F2P game makes me weigh up whether I buy whole games on steam or one small tiny part from the cash shop. That makes me then question the value for money and what they are charging.

 

There is no industry standard and I think it needs more regulation, don't get me started on boxes and keys in other games. I consider that a form of gambling and should be looked at politically.

 
  ET3D

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 175

6/06/13 8:37:18 AM#136
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

I rather pay 15euro a month and buy the game then pay 1 dime in free two play game.

So you prefer to an up front fee plus a monthly rental fee for a game that you'd lose all access to it you ever stop paying? And you think that's a smart thing to do as a consumer?

 

Regarding the "free to play" name (I typed "free to pay" initially, which may be a good alternative), I think that most people understand perfectly what it means. MMO's have had this model for a while, and tons of mobile games also use this model. People who argue about it have semantics shoved so far up their asses they can't separate it from common sense.

This doesn't mean that F2P games can have crappy models. Many of them do. When they do the players don't buy that much stuff, and often the publishers change the prices or feature sets. It's still stupid to complain. Don't want to pay that much, don't buy. The fact that you complain just underscores how badly you really want this stuff, which gives the publisher a good idea that they're doing the right thing, and a sale would entice quite a few of these complainers.

  dotdotdash

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 351

6/06/13 8:47:31 AM#137

I think the problem is this:

Free to Play games aren't ACTUALLY "Free". For each player, there are associated costs whether they are paying or not. In World of Warcraft, for example, the cost-per-player is estimated to be somewhere in the region of $2-$5. These same costs exist for Free to Play games; each free player costs the operator somewhere in the region of $1-$5 to service.

This means that Free to Play operators have to use their PAYING customers as a source of subsidy. So part of the reason Free to Play games seemingly cost so much at a transactional level is because of the fact that the operator still has to cover the cost of servicing every player playing the game, whether they're paying or not.

Then, of course, we have the hard fact that these titles are FOR PROFIT. Standard attempts to increase margins apply. Developers and publishers want to make as much money as possible. They don't do this by starting low and building to bigger price points. They do this by starting high, taking the flack (and publicity) for doing so, and then (in some, but not all, cases) they drop the prices down based on consumer reaction (either by simply dropping the cost of items down, or through the use of permanent "sale" mechanics).

  odiasuda

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 62

6/06/13 8:52:58 AM#138

F2P is a misnomer for pretty much every game that uses it to describe their game. This game is no exception.   F2PSV fits better.  Free 2 Play the Shitty Version.   

 

No one wants to play the D lister free heroes. I'd like to mention I paid to play Thor, so I'm not complaining. I like the game.

 
 
 
  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6789

6/06/13 9:15:55 AM#139

Well Bill, I agree and I do support f2p games that I play.  The problem I have with this game, it is very pricey IMO and not truely a MMO as you have to play their avatars, not your own.  Secondly, no sub option.  Far as I am concerned, if a f2p does not offer a sub option it is immediately second rate.  I don't want to be gouged by the item shop to just enjoy the game.  

The hero genre does not seem to be doing very well these days with COH being taken off line.  I don't think this game will do that well.

  mikuniman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 281

6/06/13 9:19:17 AM#140

Lest face it you have to pretty ignorant as a consumer today to think some game company is going to spend millions just to entertain you for free, believe me you're not that special. Dissecting the word "FTP" just to prove a point is just weak. When as a frequent gamer you should know what that price model entails and how it works by now. Worst thing is the people that post and boast how they actually didn't spend a dime on a ftp title they've enjoyed. Wow I guess you showed them huh, gave them a what for. 

When the elderly lady at your local food chain gives that sample of a tasty new food product it's not your dinner man. So if you like the taste buy something and support something you like. Spending wisely is smart being a cheapwad shows no character.

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