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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What If: WoW Never Existed?

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64 posts found
  kDeviL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 237

6/03/13 4:48:59 PM#41

I wish this had happened with all my heart,  Many people believe that WoW was the salvation of the MMO genre, that it was the game that really made the genre what it is.  That's true to an extent but it also killed what the genre was, which imo was much, much better. Without WoW we would have had MUCH more diverse games to play out there, not an unbelievable amount of WoW clones which devs to this day still haven't realized we don't want.  Without WoW  we would have a ton of DAoC clones, Quite a few UO clones, some Conquer Online clones, some runescape clones, and some combinations of each.  Instead of looking at an MMO list in which 95% of the games could easily be considered WoW with a different skin I think it would have been much more assorted in choices.  I miss the way MMOs used to be and imo WoW destroyed their style.

If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?

  KoolVirus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 5

6/03/13 9:22:58 PM#42
If wow never existed coh would still be alive.
  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

6/03/13 9:41:45 PM#43
Originally posted by MMOExposed

if WoW didnt exist, the genre would still be the same since it was heading the WoW way anyway if you take note of the trending.

 

AC = Sandbox

AC2 = Sandpark

AC3 aka LoTRO = Themepark

 

the trend was heading that way.

 

EQ1----> EQ2

 

see the trending. this is before WoW.

 

AC to AC2 I can see, because Turbine's goal was to make AC2 more accessible to players, etc. However, it still maintained (and still does with the re-launch) many old-school elements that weren't "phased out" of MMO designs 'til after WoW came out of Left field, blew the genre's doors open and radically changed the way it would proceed.

Incidentally, AC2 actually introduced a few things we consider "standard" now, which are often wrongly accredited to WoW. 

LoTRO came after WoW, and was modeled a lot after it, with some notable inspiration taken from AC2, so I don't really think you can use that as a pure example of the progression.

EQ2 was a much different game when it came out, and for the first month or so, until WoW launched and proceeded to wipe the floor with it. It was much more old-school than WoW was, and really not as much a step toward pure theme-park as, again, WoW was. It had the corpse run death penalty, similar to EQ1, much deeper roots in RP elements, a more involved character development system, etc. Much of that was simplified a lot after WoW launched and Smed decided he wanted in on that Blizzard pie. I actually preferred the old EQ2. If they could have had a better engine, and with a few minor tweaks, I think it was a much more interesting game than it became later when SOE started chasing WoW's coat-tails with it.

I don't think it's quite so easy to connect those dots and say which way the genre would have gone or to what degree if WoW never entered the picture, or if it never took off the way it did. As much as EQ2 "evolved" over EQ1, and AC2 "evolved" over AC1, neither brought changes even remotely so drastic as WoW did to the way MMOs were designed. EQ1 was still the reigning king back then, even over EQ2. If not for WoW, the genre could have well remained more like AC2/EQ2 for a while.

 

 

 

  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

6/03/13 11:23:16 PM#44
I think one big difference would have been a lot less homogenization almost overnight. With WoW, everyone else had a clear cut path to follow to make money, and as businesses will, that path was followed. Without WoW, it would likely have been much harder for someone to be the clear cut victor, and so, there would have been a lot more experimentation in the development of the games that were developed. There would certainly be less of them, as there would also be less of an open door to the mass market, and thus a smaller player base, but ultimately the diversity amongst the ones that got made would have been significantly higher, with each game building up it's own following and a larger part of the focus staying on long term play rather than immediate profits. The genre would still be here, and it would still have largely evolved to be more mass market friendly, but without a clear number 1 game backed by heavy marketing, the evolutions would have been slower, and the expectations of growth smaller, meaning that games like SWG would be more likely to be seen as successes in a small, but popular, niche rather than failures in what many have come to perceive as a main stream product. People often don't understand that WoW's success was not just in the technical production of the game itself, but it's ability to draw in gamers from other genres of games with it's IP and Blizzard's ability to market it's past success into WoW's success; that is what made WoW what it was as much as anything in the game itself, and without those factors, it would have been very difficult for anyone to replicate anything like what happened with WoW.
  Homitu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2045

6/03/13 11:30:26 PM#45
But... but... WoW didn't innovate at all, right?  So it didn't add or change anything.  Nothing would be any different!
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6241

6/03/13 11:42:12 PM#46
Originally posted by Homitu
But... but... WoW didn't innovate at all, right?  So it didn't add or change anything.  Nothing would be any different!

WoW wasnt Original, but it did Innovate. dont confuse the two terms.

  Olgark

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 303

6/04/13 12:33:10 PM#47
There wouldn't be as many mmo's out there, but the ones we would have would of been far better than what has been produced.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1944

6/04/13 1:44:04 PM#48
Originally posted by lizardbones

What do you think the current landscape of MMOs would look like had WoW never released?

...

Brrrr ... can not even immagine how it would be. :-))

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3189

I actually still like MMORPGs

6/04/13 1:53:13 PM#49
To this day, I am still boggled by the RL people I find out play or have played WoW. I remember trying to explain what an MMO was before WoW. Now I just say "a game like WoW" and they know exactly what I mean.

  severius

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1529

6/04/13 2:03:18 PM#50

If WoW had never existed moronic companies wouldn't have hired Guild Leaders as management.  People wouldn't have been spending their work hours tweaking builds and watching boss strats on youtube, staying up until 4 am raiding and then going to their jobs unrested, unshowered, and ill-prepared.

Had wow never existed the market would not have collapsed and the world would be a better place.


  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

6/04/13 2:11:54 PM#51

This question reminds me of the other popular what if "What if Hitler had never been born/died early".

The easy knee jerk answer is everything would be different!!!!

More thorough examination shows Hitler was a product of his time and the socio-economic situation in Germany at the time.Hitler didn't start the Nazi party or it's ideals he rose up through it via charisma but was not the only charismatic person in the party.

Germany was hurting under the punishing economic reprisals of the Treaty of Versailles,the rise of Fascism was in response to skirmishes against communist Soviet forces on it's border,antisemitic feeling was rife in Germany  at the time.These amongst other factors would all of been true whether Hitler existed or not.

So whilst Hitler not existing of the time may of changed things drastically...it seems more likely that someone else would of just filled his place with only minor differences.

So too was WoW a product of it's time so Whilst in it's absence things may of been very different it also seems likely something else would of taken it's place and there would be only minor differences in the long run.

This is no way saying WoW is Hitler before anyone jumps on that just that it is a similar what ifs on different categories.

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  6/04/13 2:12:32 PM#52


Originally posted by Betaguy
I only deal in absolutes, never what if's. WoW does exist so we can't imagine what it would be like without it or how it changed/ didn't change the market.  /shrug


Don't be silly. If you thought only in absolutes, you wouldn't be able to function in society. You certainly wouldn't be able to play video games when they are based almost entirely on conceptual thinking and largely on random probabilities.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  6/04/13 2:18:31 PM#53


Originally posted by Drakynn
This question reminds me of the other popular what if "What if Hitler had never been born/died early".

The easy knee jerk answer is everything would be different!!!!

More thorough examination shows Hitler was a product of his time and the socio-economic situation in Germany at the time.Hitler didn't start the Nazi party or it's ideals he rose up through it via charisma but was not the only charismatic person in the party.

Germany was hurting under the punishing economic reprisals of the Treaty of Versailles,the rise of Fascism was in response to skirmishes against communist Soviet forces on it's border,antisemitic feeling was rife in Germany  at the time.These amongst other factors would all of been true whether Hitler existed or not.

So whilst Hitler not existing of the time may of changed things drastically...it seems more likely that someone else would of just filled his place with only minor differences.

So too was WoW a product of it's time so Whilst in it's absence things may of been very different it also seems likely something else would of taken it's place and there would be only minor differences in the long run.

This is no way saying WoW is Hitler before anyone jumps on that just that it is a similar what ifs on different categories.




We're on dangerous ground now, with the Hitler reference, but I get what you're saying.

However, even if someone else filled in Hitler's spot, they wouldn't be Hitler, they wouldn't make the same choices Hitler made. Maybe they wouldn't have been nearly as aggressive, or perhaps not as insane. Maybe, instead of Hitler, there would have been a council running things because to have a single leader, they really needed a charismatic guy to do it.

In the same way, just because conditions were nearly perfect for WoW's ascendancy, it doesn't mean that WoW or something WoW like had to come into existence. Even if a developer made something that nearly fit the space that WoW fit when it launched, it doesn't mean the developer would continue to make the same decisions as Blizzard. They might have chosen a more traditional approach to MMOs, or a sandbox approach, or they might have botched the whole thing, tanking the game that could have been WoW.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

6/04/13 2:18:47 PM#54
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Betaguy
I only deal in absolutes, never what if's. WoW does exist so we can't imagine what it would be like without it or how it changed/ didn't change the market.  /shrug



Don't be silly. If you thought only in absolutes, you wouldn't be able to function in society. You certainly wouldn't be able to play video games when they are based almost entirely on conceptual thinking and largely on random probabilities.

 

Fox News and it's viewers prove you wrong!!!!

*ducks for cover*

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

6/04/13 2:21:33 PM#55
if WoW had never exsited i would have played CoH more instead of spliting my time between the two of them for the first few years.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

6/04/13 2:26:26 PM#56
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Drakynn
This question reminds me of the other popular what if "What if Hitler had never been born/died early".

 

The easy knee jerk answer is everything would be different!!!!

More thorough examination shows Hitler was a product of his time and the socio-economic situation in Germany at the time.Hitler didn't start the Nazi party or it's ideals he rose up through it via charisma but was not the only charismatic person in the party.

Germany was hurting under the punishing economic reprisals of the Treaty of Versailles,the rise of Fascism was in response to skirmishes against communist Soviet forces on it's border,antisemitic feeling was rife in Germany  at the time.These amongst other factors would all of been true whether Hitler existed or not.

So whilst Hitler not existing of the time may of changed things drastically...it seems more likely that someone else would of just filled his place with only minor differences.

So too was WoW a product of it's time so Whilst in it's absence things may of been very different it also seems likely something else would of taken it's place and there would be only minor differences in the long run.

This is no way saying WoW is Hitler before anyone jumps on that just that it is a similar what ifs on different categories.




We're on dangerous ground now, with the Hitler reference, but I get what you're saying.

However, even if someone else filled in Hitler's spot, they wouldn't be Hitler, they wouldn't make the same choices Hitler made. Maybe they wouldn't have been nearly as aggressive, or perhaps not as insane. Maybe, instead of Hitler, there would have been a council running things because to have a single leader, they really needed a charismatic guy to do it.

In the same way, just because conditions were nearly perfect for WoW's ascendancy, it doesn't mean that WoW or something WoW like had to come into existence. Even if a developer made something that nearly fit the space that WoW fit when it launched, it doesn't mean the developer would continue to make the same decisions as Blizzard. They might have chosen a more traditional approach to MMOs, or a sandbox approach, or they might have botched the whole thing, tanking the game that could have been WoW.

 

Everything you say may of come to be in both cases I just say it most likely wouldn't of...

Most likely another charismatic leader would of rose through the Nazi Party ranks,steeped in the same doctorine and beliefs that was that movement at the time.

Another game that took where the genre was already moving and polishing them till they shined would of taken WoW's place.

Or maybe not that's the problem with what ifs,there's no actual way to prove either case just reasoned extrapolation which in the end is still just extrapolation not hard fact.

Oh and to jump in before some hothead does I am no way excusing Hitler or anyone else.Hitler deserves his villification and dark spot in History as do the other members of the Nazi party.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1876

6/04/13 2:26:54 PM#57

"Familiarity breeds contempt."

That about explains the hate for WoW. People are tired, really tired of seeing games in a similar vein. I don't blame them for being tired, it's been a long time, but in answer to the question of what if WoW never existed?

Well it's simple really, something else would have been the biggest and most popular MMO at some point, a zillion clones would have been made of it and everyone would be sick of that too. WoW is a variable, it's interchangeable with any other MMO that would have happened to get really popular.

If we could observe parallel realities we would see one in which a sandbox MMO became the most popular and 10 years later everyone is complaining about the constant sandbox games being released and kickstarting developers who offer themepark style MMOs.

Another phrase comes to mind, "no matter how hot she is, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit."

It's human nature of people getting tired of the same old and that's really all it boils down to.

  BadSpock

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

6/04/13 2:30:41 PM#58

If WoW never existed, we probably would have gotten UO:2 and I'd probably still be playing it now.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2911

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

6/04/13 2:38:09 PM#59

Well there weren't be anymore "WoW clone" ignorant talk going on. Chances are I'd say if anything Everquest 2 would be in place of WoW. 

 

Thing is, some other game WOULD of gotten a good chunk of that game's success. WoW itself actually brought nothing new to the table, in that end it was trying to compete with Everquest 1 which had a good hold on the market at that point. Would EQ of been so popular? Perhaps not to that massive degree (blizzard IP gets free players to those not sure of MMOs) but it would I feel of been quite large.

 

WoW's success wasn't based off anything they did so much as how they showed the game off and then its built in base when more people started on the big MMO kick.  Without it, I honestly feel Everquest 2 would of been the one getting "EQ2 clone" spammed by those silly people today if it hadn't existed. 

 

In Short: EQ2 would of likely been the 'running star' of the MMo market and things would of been I feel in ways a bit less 'homogenized' (WoW being one to quickly gobble up ideas other games did before them and use them) though still not at all very far from what we see in most MMos today. The core elements of WoW were taken from EQ, stuff EQ2 had as well which I think would of easily carried through the market.

  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

6/04/13 2:39:31 PM#60

I think that without WoW, there would be a much smaller playerbase because less people would have tried a MMO. I remember back in the day that paying a monthly fee for just ONE GAME seemed crazy. Why would I pay a monthly fee when I can buy other games and they'd be mine forever?? Crazytalk!! lol

 

Also, I think the bar for quality would have remained much lower.

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