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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMORPGs Are Dead -- How to Resurrect the Genre

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146 posts found
  BeansnBread

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5563

6/02/13 9:51:09 PM#121
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by Doogiehowser
I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me.


For me, this is false. I am truly happy that millions of players enjoy MMOs today. I really am.

 

I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when." If *you* can not handle that request, then I wonder who really is the one wanting EVERY MMO made to be to their liking, being the center of the universe.



That's asking quite a lot though, isn't it? To ask a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?

Really? Does not every gamer seek to find games that they enjoy?

Yeah, definitely. Sometimes it just seems like the expectations of what people want are so high and so specific that people sometimes miss out on some of the good stuff that is out there.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3463

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/02/13 9:53:07 PM#122


Originally posted by colddog04
It's fine to want things or prefer things, but expecting that perfect game that fits your specific wants and needs will inevitably lead to disappointment. The developers actually have to make decisions about what kind of systems and content go into the game. For instance, you can not both have a LFD system and not have one simultaneously. As the list of features and types of content grows longer, it gets harder and harder to hit that sweet spot for anyone in specific.

And so, do you not think that it is a lot to ask of a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?



Let me see if I got this right...

For example sake only:
You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.

Now, let's reverse this:
I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?

Is that pretty much the point?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  BeansnBread

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5563

6/02/13 9:56:51 PM#123
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by colddog04
It's fine to want things or prefer things, but expecting that perfect game that fits your specific wants and needs will inevitably lead to disappointment. The developers actually have to make decisions about what kind of systems and content go into the game. For instance, you can not both have a LFD system and not have one simultaneously. As the list of features and types of content grows longer, it gets harder and harder to hit that sweet spot for anyone in specific.

 

And so, do you not think that it is a lot to ask of a development studio to tailor a game to your specific wants and needs?



Let me see if I got this right...

 

For example sake only:
You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.

Now, let's reverse this:
I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?

Is that pretty much the point?

No... that's not my point. Why would it not be possible to like a game with or without a LFD system? It's the specificity of the wants that make it nearly impossible to enjoy anything because it is nearly impossible for developers to meet enough of the criteria laid out by someone that wants something so specific.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Wighty

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 615

6/02/13 9:58:44 PM#124

Simple give every gamer that expects they should have everything for free a lobotomy and restore MMO's to the glory days of the pre WOW era

 

Otherwise gamer entitlement, and content locusts will continue to ruin every single game that come out...

 

Respect to all the indy devs who are taking the "screw the masses" road and making niche sub games catering to a smaller group of people who understand the market and do not want loads of F2Pers leeching off them.

What are your other Hobbies?

Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3463

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/02/13 10:29:45 PM#125


Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Let me see if I got this right...

For example sake only:
You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.

Now, let's reverse this:
I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?

Is that pretty much the point?



No... that's not my point. Why would it not be possible to like a game with or without a LFD system? It's the specificity of the wants that make it nearly impossible to enjoy anything because it is nearly impossible for developers to meet enough of the criteria laid out by someone that wants something so specific.

I took the one feature you mentioned as an example. Of course it is going to be specific. That does not negate the premise of "shoe on the other foot."

The general feel of MMOs today are what I find lacking. This equates to many, many things working in tandem. No MMO released lately have any kind of longevity for me. I have no vested interest in any character I create. The journey to the end is over before it begins. Once there, there is nothing that interests me.

It is not as "specific" as you are implying. It is much easier and briefer to mention one or two features. I could add a lot more to what I mentioned above. Wouldn't do any good. Some people would probably not even make it to the end of the post.

Truth be told, I don't group enough for a LFD system to matter that much to me. However, how character evolves makes all the difference to me. If you want to say this a "specificity", so be it. It is much more involved, though.

Does a game have to be perfect? Of course not! But there sure is a lot of wiggle room between an MMO being enjoyable and perfect.

PS: This also goes hand in hand to the replies that suggest MMOs with a poster's posted wants in a game. Just because a game has "deep crafting" or is "a sandbox" does not automatically mean that MMO will be enjoyable to that poster.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  BeansnBread

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5563

6/02/13 10:47:59 PM#126
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Let me see if I got this right...

 

For example sake only:
You like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. You are happy.
I don't like LFD systems. I am selfish for wanting an MMO that does not have this feature.

Now, let's reverse this:
I like LFD systems. MMOs include this feature. I am happy.
You don't like LFD systems. Now, are you selfish for wanting a game that does not have this feature?

Is that pretty much the point?



No... that's not my point. Why would it not be possible to like a game with or without a LFD system? It's the specificity of the wants that make it nearly impossible to enjoy anything because it is nearly impossible for developers to meet enough of the criteria laid out by someone that wants something so specific.

I took the one feature you mentioned as an example. Of course it is going to be specific. That does not negate the premise of "shoe on the other foot."

 

The general feel of MMOs today are what I find lacking. This equates to many, many things working in tandem. No MMO released lately have any kind of longevity for me. I have no vested interest in any character I create. The journey to the end is over before it begins. Once there, there is nothing that interests me.

It is not as "specific" as you are implying. It is much easier and briefer to mention one or two features. I could add a lot more to what I mentioned above. Wouldn't do any good. Some people would probably not even make it to the end of the post.

Truth be told, I don't group enough for a LFD system to matter that much to me. However, how character evolves makes all the difference to me. If you want to say this a "specificity", so be it. It is much more involved, though.

Does a game have to be perfect? Of course not! But there sure is a lot of wiggle room between an MMO being enjoyable and perfect.

PS: This also goes hand in hand to the replies that suggest MMOs with a poster's posted wants in a game. Just because a game has "deep crafting" or is "a sandbox" does not automatically mean that MMO will be enjoyable to that poster.

I know you can add a lot more features to the list of things you want and that is precisely the problem. The more that you add to that list, the more difficult it will be for you to find whatever it is you're looking for. On top of that you say that you are looking for a "general feel" and you talk about many things having to work in tandem. You say that how a character evolves is what you care about and you even go on to say that it's very involved.

 

These things all add up to something very specific that you have created in your head. And because the game gets so specific, it's going to be rare or impossible for a developer to actually meet your needs.

 

Anyway, I doubt I'm going to convince you of anything. I just think it's tough for those people that are looking for a game to fit them instead of looking to fit into a game.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1818

6/02/13 11:04:30 PM#127

Great conversation a year ago. However ...

 

 

We clearly see what direction mmo development is taking with recent Kickstarter drives and the many sandbox games coming out and in development and the endless forum posts, blogs and even MMORPG staff articles about this subject over the last 2 or more years.

 

This thread is sort of like deciding to debate what happened to the space shuttle Challenger a year or 2 after the accident when it is already well documented. 

You stay sassy!

  Grailer

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 873

6/02/13 11:06:06 PM#128

Seems like most MMO's these days are a camp of NPC in an area with ! above head,   you basically do the quests they give you then one quest will lead you to another area with another camp of NPC .

 

Discovery is dead unless you sway away from the linear questing .

 

Almost all the quests are solo only so other people are really just annoying because they potentially get in the way of your quest.

 

You could basically level from 1 to Max level without having a single person on your friends list .

 

EQ1 did it right in a lot of ways but people whined because it was too hard , instead of looking at the problem they dumbed it down to the discraceful MMO's that we have today .

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3463

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/02/13 11:11:30 PM#129


Originally posted by colddog04
Anyway, I doubt I'm going to convince you of anything. I just think it's tough for those people that are looking for a game to fit them instead of looking to fit into a game.

It is rough, let me tell ya :)

I buy clothes that fit, not ones I can change my body into fitting. I play games for enjoyment, not to try to find out where that enjoyment may be hidden.

I can usually find enjoyment in almost anything I do. It comes down to if that enjoyment is worth the trouble of finding and if it will last long enough to warrant that search.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  BeansnBread

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5563

6/02/13 11:24:20 PM#130
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

Originally posted by colddog04
Anyway, I doubt I'm going to convince you of anything. I just think it's tough for those people that are looking for a game to fit them instead of looking to fit into a game.


It is rough, let me tell ya :)

 

I buy clothes that fit, not ones I can change my body into fitting. I play games for enjoyment, not to try to find out where that enjoyment may be hidden.

I can usually find enjoyment in almost anything I do. It comes down to if that enjoyment is worth the trouble of finding and if it will last long enough to warrant that search.

Yeah, but that's not really a good analogy because you CAN find a shirt that fits and you apparently CAN NOT find an MMORPG that fits. And the reason is, at least in my opinion, because you have created a shape that only a very specifically shaped shirt will fit. And I don't really mean you specifically, but everyone that is looking so hard to scratch that itch they got from whatever earlier game they were playing that they liked so much.

 

And here is where this all started: 'I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when."' Do you know if this is even possible?

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  firefly2003

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2585

6/02/13 11:55:15 PM#131
Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

 

An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

 

An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

 

The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

 

 

The problem with the genre today is that they are too much like "GAMES" and not simulated worlds which is what the original MMORPGs were, a 2nd existence which includes all those "boring parts" and "downtime" that all the casuals and mainstream complain about but only a small fraction have ever experienced.

Today we have not MMORPG's but single player games with online components masquerading as MMO's, too much focused on theme park "hand-holding design" and combat and nonexistent "endgame" with the exception of raids that only a segment of the player bases in all MMOs actually want to play still, pretty much leaving out all other options and play styles for other types of players who like crafting, social events-activities, open world pvp, world building, and other features and mechanics that were abandoned years ago in favor of raiding and shoe box instanced pvp and grinding dailies..... where did we go wrong?

The community is nonexistent in MMO's cause there is nothing implemented to help those to foster a community, where bad behavior and trolling is rewarded and no tools to punish those who take advantage of the system, in MMORPG's of the past back when they were 2nd existence, a player who tries to manipulate prices on an exchange or from your shop options were there to ban them from buying your goods or entering your stores or even your town, trolls and ninja looters would be put on blacklists and spread around to well known guilds who to ban from their runs. Now all a troll or just a scumbag in a MMO has to do today is change servers or pay to change their name instead of being stuck with a "bad' reputation.

Convenience, accessibility, and catering to players who playtime spans 1 hr a week has transformed the "simulated worlds" in a simple, single player lobby game all for the sake of the bottom dollar, and what have we gotten as a reward for that "transformation"? A "GAME" ... that people play for 1-3 months before sailing on to the next "game".

I think developers have forgotten what a MMORPG is and forgot that you can be successful if you make good "2nd Life" no where does it say you need to make billions of this stuff you can be niche and make money if it spread on the good word that will grow into something more than you think it would, too many people want to make it big right off the bat ... it doesn't work like that allow for things to grow and flesh out. Thats the problem, the current generation of players want it NOW NOW NOW!!! or they threaten to leave.

The current generation of MMORPGs or MMO's in development are shifting slowly back to that simulated world atmosphere experience, and one in particular is Star Citizen which will be the true definition of what a MMORPG is a "2nd existence".

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/03/13 3:40:56 AM#132
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

But they DID have a sense of pacing, just not what you found enjoyable. It was just too slow for your tastes. Does not mean they did not have a sense of pacing.

I agree that some of the time sinks I did not enjoy. But we differ greatly on what a "time sink" is. Anything one does in a game is a "time sink." It takes time away from the player that they could be doing something else. It keeps them playing. Our "tolerances" differ, neither one being "superior."

That's exactly what a timesink is.  Our definition of timesink isn't different, only what constitutes an empty or excessive timesink.

A game is going to occupy players' time, and it's up to that game to decide whether they fill the player's time with interesting decisions or whether they force the player to tolerate empty non-gameplay, or excessive repetition.  And those were the primary failings of early MMORPGs, and the reason early MMORPGs were not more successful than they were.  

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5396

6/03/13 5:16:12 AM#133
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac

At first, prostitutes are great. You pay for exactly what you think you want & it's way cheaper than an actual relationship. And if you've never had a real relationship, you would wonder why anyone would be in one if you can either pay a prostitute for exactly what you think you need, or pay nothing and pull a manual, solo mission.

On the other hand, those of us who have had a real relationships know the beauty & fulfillment of the genuine article & you can't fool us with your one dimensional, unskilled, lifeless romp, that is over as soon as it begins. Zero lasting satisfaction.
 

 

Well said, perhaps you have given those who never experienced what we are talking about a glimpse of what it was like. Still is to a certain extent if you can find a good guild. But that's not easy these days and those guilds are more putting up with the MMO they are playing than loving it.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/03/13 5:28:35 AM#134
Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

 

An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

 

An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

 

The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

 

 

Plenty of good mmorpg's out there but community ruined it for me thats problem not games it self.

 

A mmorpg for me can only be fun and last long if community is nice and social and becouse this is not the case anymore i realy dont see how we can ressurect mmorpg genre if community not first change and become as it was 10+  years ago.

I realy dont see this happen so for me nomatter how good a mmoprg is if its occupide by many rotten apples it becomes rotten from inside like a C......

I'll stick to co-op and solo and leave mmo for what it is unless drastic changes in behavior and social skills of community suddely change(i very doub that) i prolly won't play mmo's anymore.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3463

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/03/13 6:13:55 AM#135


Originally posted by colddog04
And here is where this all started: 'I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when."' Do you know if this is even possible?

Is it possible? Of course it is. Will it be done? I highly doubt it.

Because of the numbers that play these MMOs now for a couple of months and then leave, I do not see a developer/publisher setting their sights lower (number-wise or a more specific audience) for longevity. It is hard for a business to look away from easy money.

That is big question and wherein lies my "hope." As things look right now, I do not think it will happen.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20541

6/03/13 3:51:21 PM#136
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac

At first, prostitutes are great. You pay for exactly what you think you want & it's way cheaper than an actual relationship. And if you've never had a real relationship, you would wonder why anyone would be in one if you can either pay a prostitute for exactly what you think you need, or pay nothing and pull a manual, solo mission.

On the other hand, those of us who have had a real relationships know the beauty & fulfillment of the genuine article & you can't fool us with your one dimensional, unskilled, lifeless romp, that is over as soon as it begins. Zero lasting satisfaction.
 

 

Well said, perhaps you have given those who never experienced what we are talking about a glimpse of what it was like. Still is to a certain extent if you can find a good guild. But that's not easy these days and those guilds are more putting up with the MMO they are playing than loving it.

nah .. sub MMOs charge you for your fun. The better analogy is that you can pay for one mistress until she is old and unappealing, or go for many prostittutes. If you are going to pay for it ... more variety with no commitment is better.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

6/03/13 4:07:35 PM#137
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
 

Please don't be shy to show me where i insulted people in this topic or generalized them? if anything i am against it and i even used sarcasm in earlier reply to make my point.

 

"I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me."

 

"It is that time of the week again i guess...

*MMORPG's are dead and i am the only expert who knows how to bring it back*"

 

You don't have to apologize to me or anyone for doing it. These are game forums & that is what happens in them. We should all be aware of that. However, you should at least be aware that you're doing it. And if you are aware, pay the other posters the respect of not insulting their intelligence by pretending you're not.

Using sarcasm to bring forward obvious bias and attacks on a 'group' of individual is not same as actually attacking them. 

And yes this topic has been recycled many many many times on weekly basis that is why i said 'it is that time of the week again'.

I know you are trying to get one up on me by trying to make it look as if i am in same category as you but sorry my agenda behind posting in this topic has nothing to do with showing my deep rooted hatred against a particular group..in your case which is 'casuals'.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

6/03/13 4:10:03 PM#138
Originally posted by aesperus

Some MMOs are doing some of the things you're asking for.

The main issue is you (and others as well) are expecting the game to do all the work for you. You talk about things like the journey, lasting memories & experiences, community, etc. These are things that a game can't just hand you. The most a game can ever do (and has ever done) is to provide a stage, and environment for which such things are possible. It's up to the players to create such things for themselves.

I can't say I agree with this.

 

Even though this genre is called mmoRPGs, most people aren't into role playing.

 

Basically what you've described is instead of taking someone to an amazing movie that takes you on a wonderful and entertaining journey, you're handing them a stack of blank paper and a pencil and telling them to create their own journey.

 

That is fine for some people, but many others want to experience an amazing journey and games are supposed to create that. This isn't to be confused with theme park vs sandbox either. A sandbox world can have immense story built into it as well.

 

 

The big problem is most newer MMOs seem to be approaching it from "Here are the same rehashed mechanics that the game needs. Here is the latest art to get peoples attention and make for cool trailers. Hey, do we have time to make this an interesting alive deep world that people will have amazing experiences in? Do we have time to create quests/content that is truly engaging and not kill 10 rats or go in dungeon, kill bad guy, bring back item? If not just ship it with the rehashed mechanics and new art. The rest doesn't matter."

 

Overall that seems to be the biggest problem for most people. The mechanics are enough to get by if you're new to the genre. If you've played a couple of MMOs, the immersion and depth becomes important. Very rarely does an MMO have that level of depth and immersion. You can see this in all of the other threads on here on topics like "How to revitalize MMO quests" and etc. It all points to the content not being engaging and interesting.

 

It is like wanting something as interesting and deep as Inception, and instead getting another uncreative flashy Fast and Furious movie. The flash will draw in people and make Fast and Furious a profit so it will keep getting made, but after people have seen it they move on and don't give it another thought where as people are talking about Inception for weeks after.

 

This is why you see every MMO that is released spike up in users at launch and then by the end of the first month they're already down to 2/3rds of that number and by the end of the second month they're down to under half. That is how quickly people get bored and move on. This isn't some small niche group of old gamers, this is often times millions of users that give up on all these games that quickly. That screams volumes about the genre.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

6/03/13 4:12:20 PM#139
Originally posted by Antiquated

Sure one sentence up: These people make it sound as if (etc.)  All properties of an individual are shared by an entire (a bit nebulous) 'these people' group.

Jim likes fried chicken. All members of (group, label, race, class) must like fried chicken.

Now you are just reaching and trying too hard. By 'these' people i obviously meant the individuals who are as usual trying to make back handed insults against the 'casual' crowd..in this very topic. Nowhere i tried to give you an impression that i am talking about a larger group outside of this very topic.

When i am talking about posters in this topic it is not generalization because what i said was based on their own posts about the casuals and those who refuse to agree with their idea of what is a 'quality' MMO.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  UnleadedRev

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 317

6/03/13 4:15:21 PM#140

As much as I HATE to say it...but its all in the hands of Richard Garriot, who created the first MMO, i.e. Ultima Online, and then got rich and blasted off into space or something and got all caught up in that stuff and abandoned all things PC Games...until recently.

Hopefully, with all the criticism he recently leveled at existing MMOs, he can provide a new and fresh approach...something innovative that breaks the WoW trend.

I do not count on Chris Roberts or Mark Jacobs to do that.

Fear the Alien, the Psyker, the Heretic, the moronic Steam Moderator.

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