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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Themepark pvp > Sandbox pvp

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46 posts found
  lolunatic

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/09
Posts: 113

 
OP  5/31/13 8:09:48 PM#1

I think themeparks are WORLDS better for legitimate pvp than sandboxes.

 

Eve for example.

The game is based around this skill queue where you can just pile on skills and they'll train and you'll get whatever benefits when they are done training. The problem is that you can have any skill you want, no skill cap, so players who having been playing since the game released have a distinct advantage over any players that haven't.  I know  eve doesn't have traditional combat, barely combat at all. But what it comes down to is your ship and the books you've trained. Not actual player skill. And other sandboxes that have come out are similar to that, AoW with inner/ scrolls, DARKFALL with the redic grind(I'm not sure about the new one never played).

Themeparks to me just seem a whole lot more sportier, instead of the whole "you haven't played for a year so I shit on you instantly" deal. Devs usually work aggressively on the class balance(not counting non triple a mmos), you can't stack to many things on one character for the most part, op items are usually banned from pvp, the list really goes on and on. 

 

TL;DR: Sandbox = get shit on by people who have played since day 1, or just generally play a lot more than you, then strive to grind endlessly till the day you MIGHT catch up with them.

themepark = play a little bit, get geared quickly, become competitive then strive to become a better player to beat BETTER players

 

 

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4753

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/31/13 8:13:48 PM#2
Originally posted by lolunatic

The problem is that you can have any skill you want, no skill cap, so players who having been playing since the game released have a distinct advantage over any players that haven't.  I know  eve doesn't have traditional combat, barely combat at all. But what it comes down to is your ship and the boo

flawed. skills aren't linear.

 

it's a common mistake people make about eve's skills. 

 

I'm in a frigate right now and my dreadnaught skills have no effect on tonight's fleet.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

5/31/13 8:13:49 PM#3
They both have their place and fans, but I agree and prefer balance.


  Prenho

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/29/12
Posts: 306

5/31/13 8:14:39 PM#4
That's why Lineage 1 > any OWpvp game because there's a solid pk and clan war - politics system. It is not random ganking randoms. And L1 still makes more money that other OWpvp MMO on the market, even with L1 only on eastern market.
  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4753

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/31/13 8:15:56 PM#5
too much balance and you're in queue for a battleground...

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

5/31/13 8:19:12 PM#6
Originally posted by Robokapp
too much balance and you're in queue for a battleground...

Can we remove gear/level advantage too and focus purely on skillful competition?  Then sign me up!

PVP involving significant non-skill factors is boring.  You're either stomped by players who weren't more skilled, or you stomp players easily without effort and there's no fight.

  Prenho

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/29/12
Posts: 306

5/31/13 8:19:55 PM#7
BGs are just the result of the lack  of any pvp rules for open world, thats why all theme park are carebears, they don't know what is a solid pk/guild war system, they think owpvp is just high levels ganking low levels without cosnequences, as you see in pvp servers of most themepark games.
  muchavez

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/04
Posts: 208

5/31/13 8:23:23 PM#8
if you're looking for skill based gameplay you are on the wrong genre lol.
  radios

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 10

5/31/13 8:28:57 PM#9
Yes. Playing 87 games of Huttball is certainly more skillful and entertaining then fights anywhere at anytime.
  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4753

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/31/13 8:30:59 PM#10
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Robokapp
too much balance and you're in queue for a battleground...

Can we remove gear/level advantage too and focus purely on skillful competition?  Then sign me up!

PVP involving significant non-skill factors is boring.  You're either stomped by players who weren't more skilled, or you stomp players easily without effort and there's no fight.

sounds like you're trying to find in MMOs what is not a typical MMO feature. have you tried MOBAs ?

 

MMOs make weak e-sports. they're just not designed for it. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20125

5/31/13 8:39:23 PM#11
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Robokapp
too much balance and you're in queue for a battleground...

Can we remove gear/level advantage too and focus purely on skillful competition?  Then sign me up!

PVP involving significant non-skill factors is boring.  You're either stomped by players who weren't more skilled, or you stomp players easily without effort and there's no fight.

Just play pure pvp instanced games like LoL or WoT.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

5/31/13 9:01:26 PM#12
Lol ya pit a guy who beats everyone up with gear vs one who beats em with skill to see what happens.


  Nevulus

Elite Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1283

5/31/13 9:07:05 PM#13
Originally posted by Robokapp
too much balance and you're in queue for a battleground...

One of the greatest posts I've read on this forum, because it's so true.

  jskeets916

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 160

5/31/13 9:07:27 PM#14
Originally posted by lolunatic

I think themeparks are WORLDS better for legitimate pvp than sandboxes.

 

Eve for example.

The game is based around this skill queue where you can just pile on skills and they'll train and you'll get whatever benefits when they are done training. The problem is that you can have any skill you want, no skill cap, so players who having been playing since the game released have a distinct advantage over any players that haven't.  I know  eve doesn't have traditional combat, barely combat at all. But what it comes down to is your ship and the books you've trained. Not actual player skill. And other sandboxes that have come out are similar to that, AoW with inner/ scrolls, DARKFALL with the redic grind(I'm not sure about the new one never played).

Themeparks to me just seem a whole lot more sportier, instead of the whole "you haven't played for a year so I shit on you instantly" deal. Devs usually work aggressively on the class balance(not counting non triple a mmos), you can't stack to many things on one character for the most part, op items are usually banned from pvp, the list really goes on and on. 

 

TL;DR: Sandbox = get shit on by people who have played since day 1, or just generally play a lot more than you, then strive to grind endlessly till the day you MIGHT catch up with them.

themepark = play a little bit, get geared quickly, become competitive then strive to become a better player to beat BETTER players

 

 

Agree 100% i don't agree with any of the counter arguments in this thread either.

Play Lol or Wot? I mean yeah i've played LoL understand its a much better designed esport, however in no way shape or form would i say its fair to ignore modern AAA expectations and tell us to play a game with warcraft 3 graphics for pvp needs.

themepark pvp such as WoW arenas or GW1/GW2 spvp is much more entertaining when balanced/done right than sandbox or mobas.

LoL = click click click, gets old some prefer wasd and mouse

Edit: Open world pvp can also be done correctly in themepark games as well, for those who want something more spontaneous and with different strategy.  I still prefer themepark open world pvp with sandbox elements over full blown sandbox for reasons stated, those who play more/started earlier are always advantaged.

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

5/31/13 9:09:54 PM#15
Originally posted by jskeets916

 


LoL = click click click, gets old some prefer wasd and mouse

Like in a fps ?

mmo pvp is lame.

  jskeets916

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 160

5/31/13 9:11:50 PM#16
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by jskeets916

 


LoL = click click click, gets old some prefer wasd and mouse

Like in a fps ?

mmo pvp is lame.

yeah like in an fps, but what if someone doesn't want to play an fps? RPG or action-combat games not revolving around shooting should still offer competitive pvp that doesn't require a gun.  Problem is so many games haven't executed developing in correctly so it usually does suck.

  bleedz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 5

5/31/13 9:17:39 PM#17

Do tell why you think there is no skill involved with EVE? 

 

Oh and theme-park PVP with no real consequence is not really that great. Now if you had a risk of say, losing some xp when you died, and level down, then it might be more exciting.

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1579

5/31/13 9:19:50 PM#18

add the word "solo" to the title of your thread and you're a lot closer to the truth.

 

mmos are not sposed to be esports though.  the beauty of the sandbox games is that your enemy might not be evenly matched.  it makes for social interactions and the epic stories that eve has become famous for.  plus in a sandbox there is no artificial boundary saying you have to fight; you can run and the act of running can be as thrilling as fighting in many cases.

 

in a sandbox you are fighting in pvp for a reason in-game as opposed as "to win".  in eve our corp fights because others are trying to take territory that my alliance owns and we have fought hard for that territory so we are going to fight.  that kind of fighting is the kind of fighting that makes me care about my character, my corp and the game.

 

when i used to play wow, i just didnt get arena pvp because you didnt lose anything other than arbitrary points if you lose, and you didnt really gain anything if you win.  meh.  i guess eve and other sandboxes spoiled me.

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

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  jskeets916

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 160

5/31/13 9:21:25 PM#19
Originally posted by bleedz

Do tell why you think there is no skill involved with EVE? 

 

Oh and theme-park PVP with no real consequence is not really that great. Now if you had a risk of say, losing some xp when you died, and level down, then it might be more exciting.

Exactly, or if the pvp has a competitive/balanced arena style with sought after rewards.

GW1 did an amazing job of this and was one of the better experiences i had with MMO's and pvp

  ro8ter

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/13
Posts: 23

5/31/13 9:47:48 PM#20

How can you call Eve a sandbox? There's no sand.

Now Minecraft has the equivalent of sand.  Second Life has a sand like feature, but Eve?  I don't see it.

 

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