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Characters, Skills, Etc.  » Game Creation: The Right Mix With Your Own Style

9 posts found
  Celestria_Sol

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/13
Posts: 7

 
OP  5/11/13 11:58:36 PM#1

SO i have been reading a lot of the post here on the site in this particular section, to see if I could get some inspiration on the game I would like to develop. However most of the searching has been in vain because there isn't much of the information I was looking for. So I thought I would post this and share some of my ideas as well as get some feed back and other peoples spin on things they are doing.

The first thing I want to look at is Classes. In my game, I have set up a 24 class system, with the rules of Duel Primary. So if a player wants to have the powers of a fire mage and a warrior, than they can reap the benefits of both, with the only set backs being the ones limited by the classes them selves. Also I am allowing players the option of doubling up on one class allowing for greater use of that class if they wish.

So here are my questions: How many do you use? Do you think there is a minimum/maximum that should be used for game play? And my last question is which class do you believe should never be missed from a game, but  generally is skipped over?

Next is races. I haven't actually defined this in my game yet but I'm looking at around 10. Each will have racial powers, abilities, skills and possibly classes/ jobs they are better at. Haven't really ironed it all out. I'm an strictly staying away from any mystical type beings (vampires and the like) or beast shaped humanoids (werewolves and what not). The reason being the gimmick in my game would be hindered by these. 

So question time: Min/Max? Is there something you do to make your races special?

Last but not least: Skills.  I would really like to keep this part a secret. Nothing against anyone just do. All i can say is that I hate skill trees and I hope one day they all die.  I will say my skill system is based off progression, as well as my leveling. So instead of it being "I leveled up and got 4 SP! woot..." It will be the more you use the skill, the better it gets. My goal is to try and be as realistic as possible with the mechanics of the game.

Questions: Which do you think is better: progression, or Allocation? What ideas (and i use that loosely since i'm not revealing much) do you have about skills?

  ghstwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/08
Posts: 386

5/30/13 1:38:41 AM#2

Short and sweet answers:

Classes- It really depends on need.  A few broad classes (melee, ranged, magic) can cover the same needs as 50 extremely narrow classes.  Ideally, each class has a reason to be: unique mechanics or play style.

Races- I rarely use them at all in my ideas.  That said, factions can have their ideals which could impact the availability of narrow classes, equipment and such.

Skills- trees are overused, no question.  Really though, It's not that they are overused as much as their structure is so often bad. 

  mmoski

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/08
Posts: 263

5/30/13 3:01:09 AM#3

Well for the classes, if each class has a unique feel and distinct gamplay mechanisms there's really no limitations to the number of classes, dual classing is good though," gw1" and "runes of magic" do this quite well, maybe go try them out or even old school D&D. One thing I feel is key with dual classes is the ability to swap out classes and try different builds.

As for races, typically they have depended more on a games lore, this normally gives a clear definition of what's special about a race, how they live, what they do etc... Many games give minimal advantages and disadvantages to further clarify the definition (also easier to balance).

I think skill progression and allocation have the same outcome, to me this really depends on the game play.  Progressive system induce players to explore gameplay to find the best potential gains, but can be abused through macros etc. Allocation systems provide a clearer understanding for the player in the way they can build their characters during character development.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6539

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/30/13 3:55:20 AM#4

To make my answer short,everything you want to see from great class and race design was shown to us in FFXI.

I would like to see those BASE ideas expanded on and yes they can be improved a lot,but the base design is perfect.

A perfect example is we used to see weight utilized,now every puny and giant player are treated as equals.There should be advantages and weaknesses to playing each type of race and class.

Perhaps the main problem is as i have always stated >>>PVP>Everyone wants  to be equal or pvp is a fail.I say get rid of pvp,it simply does not work in a rpg only as a min i game idea.

Anyhow,if you fully understand how FFXI operates,you can take those ideas and expand them even further,example utilizing weight as a factor on how versatile your armor and weapon choices are.I would actually like to see your character design to have various run speeds.

Perhaps a really ambitious trait like making Intelligence affect how quickly you learn abilities and spells.The trade off might be you are weak of body,less hit points less vitality less stamina.However the game can have ideas that an intelligent character can learn ways to train the body and improve it.

There is a lot that can be done in gaming,the problem is developers are on strict time frames and instead of looking for quality are looking for gimmicks to make a cheaper game sell.With the high cost of designing a really good game,i don't see the "quality" part in game design to come back any time soon.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11826

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

5/30/13 4:27:18 AM#5
Originally posted by Celestria_Sol

SO i have been reading a lot of the post here on the site in this particular section, to see if I could get some inspiration on the game I would like to develop. However most of the searching has been in vain because there isn't much of the information I was looking for. So I thought I would post this and share some of my ideas as well as get some feed back and other peoples spin on things they are doing.

The first thing I want to look at is Classes. In my game, I have set up a 24 class system, with the rules of Duel Primary. So if a player wants to have the powers of a fire mage and a warrior, than they can reap the benefits of both, with the only set backs being the ones limited by the classes them selves. Also I am allowing players the option of doubling up on one class allowing for greater use of that class if they wish.

So here are my questions: How many do you use? Do you think there is a minimum/maximum that should be used for game play? And my last question is which class do you believe should never be missed from a game, but  generally is skipped over?

Next is races. I haven't actually defined this in my game yet but I'm looking at around 10. Each will have racial powers, abilities, skills and possibly classes/ jobs they are better at. Haven't really ironed it all out. I'm an strictly staying away from any mystical type beings (vampires and the like) or beast shaped humanoids (werewolves and what not). The reason being the gimmick in my game would be hindered by these. 

So question time: Min/Max? Is there something you do to make your races special?

Last but not least: Skills.  I would really like to keep this part a secret. Nothing against anyone just do. All i can say is that I hate skill trees and I hope one day they all die.  I will say my skill system is based off progression, as well as my leveling. So instead of it being "I leveled up and got 4 SP! woot..." It will be the more you use the skill, the better it gets. My goal is to try and be as realistic as possible with the mechanics of the game.

Questions: Which do you think is better: progression, or Allocation? What ideas (and i use that loosely since i'm not revealing much) do you have about skills?

 

If you've read a lot of posts in this section and still posted the above, you're either 12 or trolling. I know it's bannable to dare suggest that, but seriously... You either cannot understand  what you read or did not want to understand what you read.

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1063

5/30/13 5:11:42 AM#6

Can you please be more specific.

You can have no classes or many classes but without knowing what the game is about, the lore, the goals or anything in particular then it is not a valid question. I could say lets just have a priest, thief, mage and warrior but if you then tell me it is a car racing game.....Please be a bit more specific on what you are asking for.

Same applies to races. Without knowing anything about what the game is about or where it is set or anything else it is a pointless question. to use the above example If I say Human. Orc, Goblin, Elf and you tell me the game is a car racing game...you get the point.

And without too much comment, same applies for skills. No point having a magic skill if the idea for the MMO revolves around a car racing theme!

 

  Celestria_Sol

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/13
Posts: 7

 
OP  5/31/13 5:09:31 PM#7

Well first off, to Loktofiet, what i meant is there isn't a lot of substance or chat about the given topic. most post start out talking about the subject but then go down a bunny trail into a completely new subject. Most aren't even helpful when considering ina what I am looking for as far as information goes. 

second, i have played guild wars 1, and although it is a good game, that is not a duel primary. runes of magic is also not the style im going for. although you can swtich out classes and all that, it requires you to do a lot of switching to change classes

I will give more information on the game. I'm terrible at explaining things but let's see where it goes:

So in a nut shell, there will be some where between 5 to 10 races based on the various elements: fire, earth, water, air, lightning, nature, ice, light, shadow, celestial and mech. (I understand 'mech" is not a typical element, but metal just doesn't fit the class system or weapons development system) In the lore of my game, there was an original race that was human like, but when they acquired the knowledge and understanding of the elements, some humans began to change over time and thus separated into different races, going off to the areas of the world that best suited there needs. Also note that the classs system is hard to explain as well, but for example, the Warrior class is guided by fire, but doesn't use fire magic- all physical based classes are linked to an element.

so far as races go is something like this:

fire: an orc type

water: obliviously some type of sea-dwelling or those who live near water.

earth: dwarf type. I actually have an idea but still working on it.

air: haven't really thought of one.

nature: elf-like

light: human

shadow: dark elf type.

and the rest, not sure yet but thats the basics.

 

i haven't quite named all the classes, but let's just say i've covered all the basic classes, added a few and left out the stupid.

each element has a mage class based on that element, as well as a suitable physical class. Mech element are the Engineers (magic based) and Gun Slingers (Non-magic)

some note worthy additions: A berserker class, fully focused on just that- the rage, raw power and tribal culture of the class.

Shaman: A work in progress, this class wears a special mask that allows them to commune with spirits, and use them in battle to attack, defend or aid other players.

things i left out(and probably won't misss): bards: go die in a hole and see if anyone cares that your singing. the reason i left them out is because they are generally played as support characters, and I have a few of those- they usually just copy buffs and de-buffs that other classes already have

psychics: hm? you must have read my mind. i do hate the idea of psychics! this is because, while they are a good balanced class in most cases, its hard to come up with skills without making it seem like your just trying to hard. 

alchemist: although the thought of a alchemy based class is cool, it doesn't fit the game style im working on

 

  sunandshadow

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/13
Posts: 510

12/05/13 9:49:08 PM#8

Well, I wanted to reply helpfully here.  But I really prefer games that don't have classes.  Instead I love to have free choice to purchase spells/skills with points earned by levelling.  I hate systems where only rogues or someone in rogue mode can use invisibility, and only summoners can have combat pets, and only paladins can create temporary walls.  I want to be able to cast invisible walls to steer monsters into traps while my combat pet harasses them or maybe heals me. :D

As far as races go, what makes them special is the starting area that communicates their culture.  Well, and their looks.

Skills that get better with use are tricky; often a new low-level skill is useless compared to older practiced skills and then the player hates grinding the new skill up.

  Sephiroso

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

12/05/13 10:00:43 PM#9

To answer your question about races and what not. More specifically racial abilities. The second you step into the domain of active racial abilities, you're already lost. Reason being are min/max'ers or even just the typical player who just wants to have the easiest time with their character will look up on the internet what the best race to play x class is and quite often will 'force' players to play a race they don't wish to.

 

With that having been said i would stay away from active racial abilities for the reason above. It's fine if you want to say Elves have an easier time learning new magic so they may get a 5% increase in magic spell experience acquisition. But not something like Trolls having an ability called Fury which increases their melee attack speed by 15% for 10 seconds on a 2 min cooldown.

 

I would even stay away from something like "Dwarves can use hammers and axes better than any other race, +5 expertise to hammers/axes"

 

As far as skills. Personally i don't see the issue people tend to have with skill trees but that's subjective in nature. Your skill system seems to be fine and typical for sandbox games and its definitely a nice change of pace.

 

For the classes, it sounds like you're going for a FFXI feel to it with the dual class system but with an extra layer allowing players to double dip on the same class for an increased speciality in their field of choice. The only thing i could say is your number of classes is already to high. It's the thing i disliked about most EQ games i've played, they had way to many classes for no good reason in my opinion.


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