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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Can someone explain to me the appeal of F2P games?

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  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17382

5/31/13 9:53:52 AM#41
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

No, i'm not talking about older games, I am including Dragon's Prophet when I'm talking about F2p games. And that game isn't very good imo.


 

 

yeah but there is a schism between Asian f2p games and Western F2p games.

Dragon's Prophet looks like any number of Asian f2p games. Those always tend to look and feel cheap.

f2p is a business model so it can be represented by any type of game.

Planetside 2 is a f2p game. Doesn't feel like the asian f2p games.

Perhaps you can compare recently made "western games" (Neverwinter might be considered on the edge as it is owned by an Asian company)

 

 

  thark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1107

5/31/13 10:05:14 AM#42
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?

 

Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.

- The graphics are "meh."

- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.

- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.

- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.

 

 

Besides being a cheap @ss,  what do people see in these games?

First of all F2P means lowering the entry barrier. There are a lot of ppl never played a MMORPG before and are not used to pay a monthly sub.. for them it is a lot easier to pick up any F2P game.

The same is true for ppl not playing a lot, or never bought any computer game. For them it is easier to start playing with a F2P game, and they may get hooked.

About your complains. Look at games like Age of Conan or Star Wars the Old republic... they are both F2P now, to lowering the entry barrier. Are the graphics really just "meh"?

 

Hmm you really can't use games that has NOT been FTP from the get go as an example..These games where produced as PTP titles with a lot of money used in developing them based on how many boxed they thought they would sell on release day plus they had a subscription..
What he is talking about is games that is produced as FTP ONLY from the start, and I agree with him the overall quality between such games is HUGE..
  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4850

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/31/13 10:07:05 AM#43
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?

 

Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.

- The graphics are "meh."

- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.

- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.

- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.

 

 

Besides being a cheap @ss,  what do people see in these games?

First of all F2P means lowering the entry barrier. There are a lot of ppl never played a MMORPG before and are not used to pay a monthly sub.. for them it is a lot easier to pick up any F2P game.

The same is true for ppl not playing a lot, or never bought any computer game. For them it is easier to start playing with a F2P game, and they may get hooked.

About your complains. Look at games like Age of Conan or Star Wars the Old republic... they are both F2P now, to lowering the entry barrier. Are the graphics really just "meh"?

 

Hmm you really can't use games that has NOT been FTP from the get go as an example..These games where produced as PTP titles with a lot of money used in developing them based on how many boxed they thought they would sell on release day plus they had a subscription..
What he is talking about is games that is produced as FTP ONLY from the start, and I agree with him the overall quality between such games is HUGE..

 Sure we can.  As recent interviews from devs (TSW, SWTOR) have stated the games were designed from the start with being able to switch easily to f2p. 

IMO the overall quality between all f2p and all p2p is the same.  some really good in both, some really bad in both, about the same between both.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

5/31/13 10:09:13 AM#44
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?

 

Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.

- The graphics are "meh."

- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.

- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.

- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.

 

 

Besides being a cheap @ss,  what do people see in these games?

All these F2P MMOS were once P2P.

So the list seems ironic because you are trying to make these as some kind of staple feature for F2P MMOS.

However, NW is the recent MMO which launched as F2P and PS2 even  graphics of these two titles are not meh.

 

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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  Elitekill4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/09
Posts: 101

5/31/13 10:11:41 AM#45
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?

 

Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.

- The graphics are "meh."

- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.

- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.

- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.

 

 

Besides being a cheap @ss,  what do people see in these games?

WoW's graphics are pretty "meh".

WoW's gameplay is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

WoW has a lot of classes for the same role... might as well just cut all the inferior classes and have 1 anyway.

WoW spouts the same bullshit from the new content all the time, just done a billion billion times over so they just look like rehashed pieces of trite.

Okay, I'll admit WoW's combat is better than being made in someone's garage, but it's not a robust combat system either. SMACK SMACK KEYBOARD SMACK! *click for autol00tz*

 

I kid, but what do you think of DDO, Salem, etc? Since they're free... at least you can grind for the paid store stuff, anywho. Also, LOTRO and DDO were once P2P. RIFT, TERA (which was B2P, of course) are also going F2P to try and stay competitive. 

  User Deleted
5/31/13 10:20:06 AM#46

I will be honest I think like Mark Jacobs does from Camelot Unchained.  Right now there is F2P, hybrid F2P P2P, B2P and P2P.  The current situation is the F2P and Hybrid models are just about all MMOs are going to.   (See the latest Rift)  It will be good for a little while however I agree with Mark in the fact that MMOs today are costing Millions of dollars and several years to develop and with Free to play that market of cash shop buyers will dry up.  Just like any free to play game, at first there is a rush to buy all kinds of stuff from a cash shop with players that are impulse buyers.  What will happen to these players is after some time they will either run out of money because they are impulse buying or they will figure out how much more money they spent on cash shops than on a $12 or $15 a month subscription.  If games like SWTOR who spent $250 million in just the original game think they will recoup all that money they spent by going F2P they are likely not going to.  It’s too much money to rely on impulse buying, and the subscriptions are under 500K.  With other games going F2P the impulse buys are also impulse players so they will rush off to the next F2P MMO fast Yea they might stick to a game like SWTOR on the side however not spend as much money anymore. 

In the end the market for impulse buyers will dry up and games that spent too much money to develop games will close.  Don’t think there are many publishers spending too much money on MMOs?  Read the forbes article about Defiance being north of $100 Million.  I doubt if Trion and SyFy will ever recoup that money.  Trion will not recoup the money they spent on End of Nations which is looking to be an $80 Million range too.  Rift was $50 Million range and this is one of the few games that been created that will break even or make money.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/11/26/with-defiance-comcasts-syfy-bets-100m-on-convergence-of-tv-and-videogames/

Whether anyone likes it or not businesses have to make money to stay afloat.  F2P is just a phase and throwing a line in the water to get a piece of the pie that is left.  When it dries up publishers will close.  The only reason why F2P is popular now is the fact that too many publishers are spending near or over $100 Million in hopes of becoming the next Blizzard.  However the fact is no one really understands why Blizzard made the money they did.  First Blizzard created a game that the industry was sorely lacking and was lucky not to get hacked like Sony did around the time of EQ2.  Second Blizzard said hey the most ever in an MMO was 500K players so we will prepare for that.  Anyone remember what happened when the game dropped?  Servers were offline because there were too few servers for the amount of players that wanted to play.  Blizzard had made a reputation of being a GOOD PC gaming company.  They made very good games in Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo.  All were for their times very well polished games and WoW was no different.  So more than 500K players wanted to play and jumped on so Blizzard quickly had to expand.  Third Blizzard spent about $63 Million to make WoW, and WoW was built under the impression that it was going to be 3 to 4 years before an expansion not 2 like today.  With 500K subs at $15 a month Blizzard was making 7.5 Million each month.  It was going to take if all 500K subscriptions held 9 months to pay off the $63 Million in development cost.  That does not include operational cost or anything else.  Well Blizzard hit the Jackpot and got what 4 to 5 Million people playing during Vanilla.  That’s 10 times the amount they planned for. 

Now back to F2P.  Too many games are going north of $100 Million and planning on going Free to play out of the gate or hybrid.  They are also starting to charge $200 for the collector’s edition  and $40 for a mount in game.  The prices will continue to go up to try to make money the problem is there are too many players that see F2P and will not spend but a few bucks here and there on the game. $50 a year on a game will not get back what the business model for the game was.  Many games are going F2P in hopes of getting more players that will at least spend some money, it will work however it will not be sustainable. 

Yes F2P games designed by Indian companies as well as cheap games with very low dev budgets will make money however like Mark says spending $20 Million on a game and going F2P will soon not be a smart idea.  Spending $100 Million and going F2P not a smart idea either.

What we will see is an evolution of P2P models.  For too long everyone used the $15 per month model since SWG.  Prior to that most MMOs were 12.99 a month, and now SOE has come up with a 3 tiered Model.  One free to play the other that is $5 a month and both revolve around casual play and soloing more than group content.  The $15 a month sub is for raiders and PVPers.  This is a good P2P model that I think other companies will adapt to and will also focus at smaller markets and not being the 12 Million Sub game that WoW is.   Like Mark said games will focus on PVP or PVE and look at $500k paying members they will also look at trying to spend $50 Million not over $100 million with that many subs. 

O and here is a devil’s advocate?  What would happen to the MMO market if WoW goes F2P?  They are loosen subs so I wouldn’t put it past Blizzard to do it.  They already made a killing off selling pets, transfers name changes and everything else.  What if they went to a Hybrid F2P model?  How many people think that the current F2P players will stay in Rift, SWTOR or other F2P games?  Some will I can however see a drove of people going to Blizzard.  Blizzard does not need to make more money on WoW they hit their jackpot so at this point anything they make is profit after operation cost.  How many Publishers will survive a F2P WoW that spent $100 Million on developing a game or $250 Million?

Think about the logic and the business behind it what I said.  I will not reply to the F2P is the best enough said comments.  

  boxsnd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 436

5/31/13 10:29:40 AM#47

OP please list some non-F2P games that don't have these shortcomings.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  Derros

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1020

5/31/13 10:39:21 AM#48
Originally posted by danwest58

I will be honest I think like Mark Jacobs does from Camelot Unchained.  Right now there is F2P, hybrid F2P P2P, B2P and P2P.  The current situation is the F2P and Hybrid models are just about all MMOs are going to.   (See the latest Rift)  It will be good for a little while however I agree with Mark in the fact that MMOs today are costing Millions of dollars and several years to develop and with Free to play that market of cash shop buyers will dry up.  Just like any free to play game, at first there is a rush to buy all kinds of stuff from a cash shop with players that are impulse buyers.  What will happen to these players is after some time they will either run out of money because they are impulse buying or they will figure out how much more money they spent on cash shops than on a $12 or $15 a month subscription.  If games like SWTOR who spent $250 million in just the original game think they will recoup all that money they spent by going F2P they are likely not going to.  It’s too much money to rely on impulse buying, and the subscriptions are under 500K.  With other games going F2P the impulse buys are also impulse players so they will rush off to the next F2P MMO fast Yea they might stick to a game like SWTOR on the side however not spend as much money anymore. 

In the end the market for impulse buyers will dry up and games that spent too much money to develop games will close.  Don’t think there are many publishers spending too much money on MMOs?  Read the forbes article about Defiance being north of $100 Million.  I doubt if Trion and SyFy will ever recoup that money.  Trion will not recoup the money they spent on End of Nations which is looking to be an $80 Million range too.  Rift was $50 Million range and this is one of the few games that been created that will break even or make money.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/11/26/with-defiance-comcasts-syfy-bets-100m-on-convergence-of-tv-and-videogames/

Whether anyone likes it or not businesses have to make money to stay afloat.  F2P is just a phase and throwing a line in the water to get a piece of the pie that is left.  When it dries up publishers will close.  The only reason why F2P is popular now is the fact that too many publishers are spending near or over $100 Million in hopes of becoming the next Blizzard.  However the fact is no one really understands why Blizzard made the money they did.  First Blizzard created a game that the industry was sorely lacking and was lucky not to get hacked like Sony did around the time of EQ2.  Second Blizzard said hey the most ever in an MMO was 500K players so we will prepare for that.  Anyone remember what happened when the game dropped?  Servers were offline because there were too few servers for the amount of players that wanted to play.  Blizzard had made a reputation of being a GOOD PC gaming company.  They made very good games in Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo.  All were for their times very well polished games and WoW was no different.  So more than 500K players wanted to play and jumped on so Blizzard quickly had to expand.  Third Blizzard spent about $63 Million to make WoW, and WoW was built under the impression that it was going to be 3 to 4 years before an expansion not 2 like today.  With 500K subs at $15 a month Blizzard was making 7.5 Million each month.  It was going to take if all 500K subscriptions held 9 months to pay off the $63 Million in development cost.  That does not include operational cost or anything else.  Well Blizzard hit the Jackpot and got what 4 to 5 Million people playing during Vanilla.  That’s 10 times the amount they planned for. 

Now back to F2P.  Too many games are going north of $100 Million and planning on going Free to play out of the gate or hybrid.  They are also starting to charge $200 for the collector’s edition  and $40 for a mount in game.  The prices will continue to go up to try to make money the problem is there are too many players that see F2P and will not spend but a few bucks here and there on the game. $50 a year on a game will not get back what the business model for the game was.  Many games are going F2P in hopes of getting more players that will at least spend some money, it will work however it will not be sustainable. 

Yes F2P games designed by Indian companies as well as cheap games with very low dev budgets will make money however like Mark says spending $20 Million on a game and going F2P will soon not be a smart idea.  Spending $100 Million and going F2P not a smart idea either.

What we will see is an evolution of P2P models.  For too long everyone used the $15 per month model since SWG.  Prior to that most MMOs were 12.99 a month, and now SOE has come up with a 3 tiered Model.  One free to play the other that is $5 a month and both revolve around casual play and soloing more than group content.  The $15 a month sub is for raiders and PVPers.  This is a good P2P model that I think other companies will adapt to and will also focus at smaller markets and not being the 12 Million Sub game that WoW is.   Like Mark said games will focus on PVP or PVE and look at $500k paying members they will also look at trying to spend $50 Million not over $100 million with that many subs. 

O and here is a devil’s advocate?  What would happen to the MMO market if WoW goes F2P?  They are loosen subs so I wouldn’t put it past Blizzard to do it.  They already made a killing off selling pets, transfers name changes and everything else.  What if they went to a Hybrid F2P model?  How many people think that the current F2P players will stay in Rift, SWTOR or other F2P games?  Some will I can however see a drove of people going to Blizzard.  Blizzard does not need to make more money on WoW they hit their jackpot so at this point anything they make is profit after operation cost.  How many Publishers will survive a F2P WoW that spent $100 Million on developing a game or $250 Million?

Think about the logic and the business behind it what I said.  I will not reply to the F2P is the best enough said comments.  

I guess the issue I see is, they wont be breaking even by staying sub either, or they might have to spend several million MORE in order to get their games to a point where people "might" subscribe.  Its a lose/lose situation. 

 

I keep hearing people saying, "well they should just make games good"  What does that even mean?  Good to who?  I'm sure there are alot of people who loved DDO/Lotro before F2P,  plenty of people loved swtor before F2P, there just wasnt enough of them around.  To me that's just a meaningless phrase. 

 

The root of all these problems?  Video games became big business, big enough to have eclipsed hollywood.  Investors dont want to wait 5-10 years to maybe see a return on their investment, from an unknown company

 

  User Deleted
5/31/13 10:48:44 AM#49
Originally posted by Derros
Originally posted by danwest58

I will be honest I think like Mark Jacobs does from Camelot Unchained.  Right now there is F2P, hybrid F2P P2P, B2P and P2P.  The current situation is the F2P and Hybrid models are just about all MMOs are going to.   (See the latest Rift)  It will be good for a little while however I agree with Mark in the fact that MMOs today are costing Millions of dollars and several years to develop and with Free to play that market of cash shop buyers will dry up.  Just like any free to play game, at first there is a rush to buy all kinds of stuff from a cash shop with players that are impulse buyers.  What will happen to these players is after some time they will either run out of money because they are impulse buying or they will figure out how much more money they spent on cash shops than on a $12 or $15 a month subscription.  If games like SWTOR who spent $250 million in just the original game think they will recoup all that money they spent by going F2P they are likely not going to.  It’s too much money to rely on impulse buying, and the subscriptions are under 500K.  With other games going F2P the impulse buys are also impulse players so they will rush off to the next F2P MMO fast Yea they might stick to a game like SWTOR on the side however not spend as much money anymore. 

In the end the market for impulse buyers will dry up and games that spent too much money to develop games will close.  Don’t think there are many publishers spending too much money on MMOs?  Read the forbes article about Defiance being north of $100 Million.  I doubt if Trion and SyFy will ever recoup that money.  Trion will not recoup the money they spent on End of Nations which is looking to be an $80 Million range too.  Rift was $50 Million range and this is one of the few games that been created that will break even or make money.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/11/26/with-defiance-comcasts-syfy-bets-100m-on-convergence-of-tv-and-videogames/

Whether anyone likes it or not businesses have to make money to stay afloat.  F2P is just a phase and throwing a line in the water to get a piece of the pie that is left.  When it dries up publishers will close.  The only reason why F2P is popular now is the fact that too many publishers are spending near or over $100 Million in hopes of becoming the next Blizzard.  However the fact is no one really understands why Blizzard made the money they did.  First Blizzard created a game that the industry was sorely lacking and was lucky not to get hacked like Sony did around the time of EQ2.  Second Blizzard said hey the most ever in an MMO was 500K players so we will prepare for that.  Anyone remember what happened when the game dropped?  Servers were offline because there were too few servers for the amount of players that wanted to play.  Blizzard had made a reputation of being a GOOD PC gaming company.  They made very good games in Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo.  All were for their times very well polished games and WoW was no different.  So more than 500K players wanted to play and jumped on so Blizzard quickly had to expand.  Third Blizzard spent about $63 Million to make WoW, and WoW was built under the impression that it was going to be 3 to 4 years before an expansion not 2 like today.  With 500K subs at $15 a month Blizzard was making 7.5 Million each month.  It was going to take if all 500K subscriptions held 9 months to pay off the $63 Million in development cost.  That does not include operational cost or anything else.  Well Blizzard hit the Jackpot and got what 4 to 5 Million people playing during Vanilla.  That’s 10 times the amount they planned for. 

Now back to F2P.  Too many games are going north of $100 Million and planning on going Free to play out of the gate or hybrid.  They are also starting to charge $200 for the collector’s edition  and $40 for a mount in game.  The prices will continue to go up to try to make money the problem is there are too many players that see F2P and will not spend but a few bucks here and there on the game. $50 a year on a game will not get back what the business model for the game was.  Many games are going F2P in hopes of getting more players that will at least spend some money, it will work however it will not be sustainable. 

Yes F2P games designed by Indian companies as well as cheap games with very low dev budgets will make money however like Mark says spending $20 Million on a game and going F2P will soon not be a smart idea.  Spending $100 Million and going F2P not a smart idea either.

What we will see is an evolution of P2P models.  For too long everyone used the $15 per month model since SWG.  Prior to that most MMOs were 12.99 a month, and now SOE has come up with a 3 tiered Model.  One free to play the other that is $5 a month and both revolve around casual play and soloing more than group content.  The $15 a month sub is for raiders and PVPers.  This is a good P2P model that I think other companies will adapt to and will also focus at smaller markets and not being the 12 Million Sub game that WoW is.   Like Mark said games will focus on PVP or PVE and look at $500k paying members they will also look at trying to spend $50 Million not over $100 million with that many subs. 

O and here is a devil’s advocate?  What would happen to the MMO market if WoW goes F2P?  They are loosen subs so I wouldn’t put it past Blizzard to do it.  They already made a killing off selling pets, transfers name changes and everything else.  What if they went to a Hybrid F2P model?  How many people think that the current F2P players will stay in Rift, SWTOR or other F2P games?  Some will I can however see a drove of people going to Blizzard.  Blizzard does not need to make more money on WoW they hit their jackpot so at this point anything they make is profit after operation cost.  How many Publishers will survive a F2P WoW that spent $100 Million on developing a game or $250 Million?

Think about the logic and the business behind it what I said.  I will not reply to the F2P is the best enough said comments.  

I guess the issue I see is, they wont be breaking even by staying sub either, or they might have to spend several million MORE in order to get their games to a point where people "might" subscribe.  Its a lose/lose situation. 

 

I keep hearing people saying, "well they should just make games good"  What does that even mean?  Good to who?  I'm sure there are alot of people who loved DDO/Lotro before F2P,  plenty of people loved swtor before F2P, there just wasnt enough of them around.  To me that's just a meaningless phrase. 

 

The root of all these problems?  Video games became big business, big enough to have eclipsed hollywood.  Investors dont want to wait 5-10 years to maybe see a return on their investment, from an unknown company

 

That is true that these games will not turn a profit with subs and some will have a huge problem turning a profit F2P but they will make a little bit more for a short period of time.  If the game cost $5 Million and was F2P you could recoup that through a good cash shop.  Not if the game cost $80, $100, $250 Million.  

 

I agree that good games are  meaningless phrase because what work and what does not work is the key.  What does not work is having content burnt through in 3 weeks.  What works is 6 months to a year of content when a game releases.  So what if it takes a casual 4 or 5 months to level.  Its not done in 3 weeks and all focus on end game.  

There is another root too to the problem.  Too many MMOs for a medium size market.  Games now shoot for millions of subs not 500K like Wow did, EQ2, SWG, and so on, on a medium size budget and expected a year to turn a profit.  Fewer MMOs would mean players would play 1 or 2 of the dozen games on the market.  Not 6 to 12 different games over the course of a year and done all the content.  

  MMOGamer71

Elite Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1613

5/31/13 10:50:54 AM#50
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?

 

Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.

- The graphics are "meh."

- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.

- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.

- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.

 

 

Besides being a cheap @ss,  what do people see in these games?

You must not have played many F2P games.

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

5/31/13 10:52:09 AM#51
They make far more money than P2P games and gamers are too stubborn to play a sub game higher than $15/mo so you have F2P games. Until we as gamers wake up it will continue to be like this, pay money to enjoy the game.
  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3504

5/31/13 10:54:45 AM#52

OP's question should be split into two different ones :

- Why are there not enough players anymore that prefer p2p?

- Why did many game companies decide that the pure p2p payment model is something from the past?

I guess one question is the answer for the other.

The OP just thinks that players that don't blindly go for p2p are cheap asses. But in the real world is it thankfully about competition, offer and demand. Players compare MMO's and companies respond to that (with some delay due to the long game development times). So if one company starts to lower the entry point and it is financially succesful, there will be more companies that follow. Especially after a few years when many p2p games lost subs real fast after release.

I don't know why the OP ( or some other posters in this thread) implies that players play a game because it is f2p. The main reason someone plays a game, is because it is fun. If it is cheap, that could just be a bonus. You don't play it because it is free while hating the game at the same time lol.

I really hope that the gamers will evolve and stop thinking in absolutes. Thinking in absolutes about game is imo a sign of stupidity or at least lack of imagination (don't go into business for your own sake). P2p doesn't guarantee quality and f2p doesn't mean that the game will be p2w. This is all up to the company that develops the game and is independant of the payment model they chose.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/31/13 11:03:15 AM#53
Originally posted by WellzyC

About twice a year, that title "please explain [X]?" is offered up with genuine sincerity.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  thark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1107

5/31/13 11:12:07 AM#54
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?

 

Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.

- The graphics are "meh."

- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.

- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.

- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.

 

 

Besides being a cheap @ss,  what do people see in these games?

First of all F2P means lowering the entry barrier. There are a lot of ppl never played a MMORPG before and are not used to pay a monthly sub.. for them it is a lot easier to pick up any F2P game.

The same is true for ppl not playing a lot, or never bought any computer game. For them it is easier to start playing with a F2P game, and they may get hooked.

About your complains. Look at games like Age of Conan or Star Wars the Old republic... they are both F2P now, to lowering the entry barrier. Are the graphics really just "meh"?

 

Hmm you really can't use games that has NOT been FTP from the get go as an example..These games where produced as PTP titles with a lot of money used in developing them based on how many boxed they thought they would sell on release day plus they had a subscription..
What he is talking about is games that is produced as FTP ONLY from the start, and I agree with him the overall quality between such games is HUGE..

 Sure we can.  As recent interviews from devs (TSW, SWTOR) have stated the games were designed from the start with being able to switch easily to f2p. 

IMO the overall quality between all f2p and all p2p is the same.  some really good in both, some really bad in both, about the same between both.

 NO you can't ...Since the money developing these games was way higher than any FTP title, also they were getting back money for their investment (to some degree at least)

Yeah..I know TSW game was prepared from the get go to switch over easily to FTP or BTP..But that was just a smart move and has nothing to do with a game made as FTP from the start..

They made TSW as a AAA subscription based game, but they failed to get as many subscribers that was needed, so they switched  business model..

And ...NO way are there ANY REAL FTP title that can match the quality from Star Wars , TSW , Age of Conan or even Lord of the Rings online.. Or do you have a good example that I haven't heard of ?

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/31/13 11:12:18 AM#55

I think it's pretty simple to explain personally.the F2P model is perfectly suited to casual gamers and OCD gamers.It provides bite sized gaming and easy to purchase shiny distractions.This market is far larger than the hardcore gamer market as evidenced by the sherr numbers of facebook and mobile game players both of which have far more exploitative F2P models than any MMORPG.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of great games on facebook and mobile devices asking a more than fair price but if you look at the top earning games they are all games with the most money grabbing,exploitative F2P systems I've ever encountered but people are clearly spending heaps on cash on them.

The market has spoken.

  User Deleted
5/31/13 11:17:30 AM#56

So no one wants to chew on this thought?  We all know Blizzard has stayed away from F2P however if you follow my logic it makes them more money and causes publishers to close down MMOs if they are not making money and did not recoup their investments. 

 

 What would happen to the MMO market if WoW goes F2P?  They are loosen subs so I wouldn’t put it past Blizzard to do it.  They already made a killing off selling pets, transfers name changes and everything else.  What if they went to a Hybrid F2P model?  How many people think that the current F2P players will stay in Rift, SWTOR or other F2P games?  Some will I can however see a drove of people going to Blizzard.  Blizzard does not need to make more money on WoW they hit their jackpot so at this point anything they make is profit after operation cost.  How many Publishers will survive a F2P WoW that spent $100 Million on developing a game or $250 Million?So anyone really want to bite on this one with some business logic?

 

 

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5557

5/31/13 11:21:23 AM#57

They likely won't end subs in WoW until they are at least under a million subs. That may be 5 years out or more. Why would they risk a potential mass exodus by going F2P early?

 

Speculating like that is pretty ridiculous anyway.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Cernan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/06
Posts: 353

5/31/13 11:21:37 AM#58

The foremost appeal is the ability to login whenever you want without maintaining a monthly subscription.    The are only two other alternatives to this method.  Buy to Play (GW2 and even LOTRO to an extent) and Pay as you Play like many companies do in the East.  However, no one in the West has bought into that paid time scheme.  Personally, I'd much prefer paid time over  subscriptions.

 

That has nothing to do with being a cheap-arse as you put it.  Many people today have multiple jobs or offline activities that take up their time.  Us veteran MMO'ers from the early days now find ourselves enjoying more things.  Some of that even includes playing more games, not just the one MMO.  Back in the EQ, UO, and even early WoW days most people didn't split subscriptions.  Now people like playing multiple games.  

 

 

  severius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1528

5/31/13 11:22:57 AM#59
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?

 

Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.

- The graphics are "meh."

- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.

- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.

- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.

- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.

 

 

Besides being a cheap @ss,  what do people see in these games?

Well, apart from being wrong on every single count what do you see in paying a sub fee?

EVERY Subscription based game has:

1. meh graphics

2. generic questing with yellow exclamation or question marks

3. Usually 3-4 generic classes covering the ancient trinity of tank, heal, dps

4. same old recycled fantasy tropes

 

 


  Fluxii

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 198

5/31/13 11:30:28 AM#60

3 words

 

THEY ARE FREE.

 

It's funny though.  Two years ago if you would have said "free to play" you would have been ripped a new asshole.

 

But along came "Guildwars" and they called it "BUY TO PLAY" and it became ok.  No-one wanted to say anything bad about Guild wars so they had to justify it somehow.

 

SUDDENLY the market shifted after that.  Anyone that doesn't see it is fucking blind.   Even when DDO and LOTR were on the F2P models HATE was everywhere (the first two to switch, we're not talking about GW1 (which wasn't an MMO))).  NOW it's pretty much expected for a game to be f2p or b2p.

 

OH! and let's not mix up f2p and b2p!  We have THOSE snobs out there too!  WOAH! That's a big no-no!  B2P are AAA, but F2P... meh... WELL!  Unless it's something like Neverwinter of course! Because we make exceptions where we want!

 

Gawd this site cracks me up sometimes... the views and the self imposed rules and police and judges.

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