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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMOs need to reward you for dying like FPS games

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66 posts found
  SupportPlayerMM

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 335

5/30/13 2:15:40 PM#21
Originally posted by Reiketsu

Yeah......

 

I'm just going to leave this here for you....

 

http://www.destructoid.com/did-call-of-duty-ruin-a-generation-of-gamers--248666.phtml

 

Enjoy

Think you need to read that... the guy hired a group of CoD fans who ultimately wanted his game to be more CoD like... they were considered "Hardcore" CoD fans and he wanted to appeal to CoD players... The guys problem was he aimed improperly.. instead of trying to do his own thing he tried to appeal to a player base devoted to a franchise without the desire to offer the same gameplay as the franchise they're devoted too and got upset when they liked CoD better.

  kinnyg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/10
Posts: 15

5/30/13 2:18:23 PM#22
you do get awarded for dying. its called resurrecting and not losing your character completely. id prefer mmos to be more difficult but thats just what i enjoy.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/30/13 2:25:04 PM#23

http://www.destructoid.com/did-call-of-duty-ruin-a-generation-of-gamers--248666.phtml

The entire article sounds just eerily like what we hear here, every day.

Guess fans are fans.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Twistingfate

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/10
Posts: 178

5/30/13 3:02:29 PM#24

I personally like harder games. Its one of the reasons i play EVE. Having that sense of loss after losing your favorite ship definitely fuels many emotions that normal mmo's dont approach I think.

 

That moment your at 5% hp and you know that if you die you will lose your favorite ship, the adrenaline starts going, you start sweating and get really amped up.  You are fighting to stay rational and not panic. The enemy is pushing harder, you realize that you cant make it... POP you lose your fav ship. First thing that crosses into most EVE players minds is damit im going to get revenge and murder that bastard :P. Having a sense of loss really increases the immersion for me and those adrenaline rushs in pvping knowing that you are staking a lot on the line makes it incredible. Game may end up making my calm self an adrenaline junkie :P. 

 

Just my 2 cents and experiences from having a penalizing system like EVE. Nothing is like it and some people love the rush, others hate it but its still interesting all the same imo.

 

Best wishes

Saint

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

5/30/13 3:06:01 PM#25
Originally posted by dave6660
Rewarding failure... did they get that idea from the public school system?

You are confusing education and entertainment.

There is no failure in entertainment. Success & achievements are illusions anyway.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

5/30/13 3:10:03 PM#26
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also cod is one of the worst fps series ever. I used to love fps, but cod and its various clones leave me cold, they're boring with all their corridors & cutscenes, taking control away from the player, trying to be realistic at the expense of fun etc..

I'm also not keen on the idea of a bunch of computer nerds playing at being soldiers when real soldiers are currently out there doing it for real, I find it distasteful.

I find it strange that i actually agree with ShakyMo .. but probably for a different reason. I haven't finished CoD BO2, but finished Dishonored and Bioshock Infinite. I found the later two much more fun.

I think the issue with CoD is not taking away control (Dishonored & bioshock has some of that too ... like you cannot avoid the empress being killed in Dishonored) .. but that the gameplay in CoD is no longer fun.

The setting and gameplay in CoD is too realistic. How many ways can you shoot a M16? You have done that 10000 times. And it is all just run-and-gun. Otherwise games will mix it up with new settings, and new mechanics. Like the rail thingie in Bioshock, or the stealth/teleport gameplay in Dishonored.

 

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2828

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

5/30/13 3:12:00 PM#27
That mentality is what killed skill players. Reward comes from ACCOMPLISHING things, not failing them. The reward for actually doing something/succeeding is vastly better when its not cheapened by stuff like 'oh participation reward' stuff.
  General-Zod

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 550

Kneel.

5/30/13 3:33:02 PM#28

This is only the beginning....

(Grasp & rubs copy of Everquest)

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

5/30/13 3:39:49 PM#29

There is already a reward for dying in MMOs: Free and instant travel.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6106

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

5/30/13 3:44:58 PM#30

Sorry it will make MMORPG's even less challenging is they start to reward you for dying.

But I am sure many of the new generation of gamers would love OP's suggestion.

Then again I seem to be a wierd type of gamer, for example I actually downgrade my gear ingame if the challenge isn't challenging enough...Oh keep in mind I am not a PVP playing, occasionally do PVP, but mainly PVE in MMORPG's, but do love PVP in other genre of games like FPS or RTS. Anyway.....if PVE is too easy thankfully I still can make it challenging. If it's a MMORPG I really enjoy then of course I settle for the best. But have noticed that my playstyle doesn't needs it's purple's or Tiered gear. But if I would be intrested in the PVP or Raid part of the game I'll always make sure I got my proper gear at hand incase I need it for Raid/PVP.

Back to OP: Don't you feel it's much more challenging NOT to die even in CoD

Myself and CoD or any other FPS or RTS PVP game will take much more "gamers pride" in seeing a high-kill score with a low death-rate, but most likely all that counts for most of the new gen.gamers mightbe it's kill score

  Novusod

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 860

5/30/13 3:50:48 PM#31

A visualization of Eve Online learn curve. The cliff represents losing your ship, permadeath, whatever. Despite Eve being one of the hardest MMORPG it is still the most popular sandbox. Ten year old game that still has 300k+ subs is quite an accomplishment.

 

 

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2979

5/30/13 3:57:36 PM#32

MMOs already do this. In battleground PvP the losing team still get experience and PvP currency. BG PvP is the closest thing to a CoD match in the MMO world.

You're asking for something that you already have.

Really though.. you are asking for easy mode. Dumbed down, stripped of tension and really no compelling emotional drive to continue playing. You might think you'll enjoy that sort of thing.. but without a reason or without a challenge you would see just how god awfully mind numbing MMOs really are. The difficulty and dedication required is the only thing they have going for them. Not to mention that without difficulty there is no reason to partner up with other people, communicate or any other avenue that adds to the social aspect of these games.

  TheScavenger

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 672

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

 
OP  5/30/13 4:17:40 PM#33

What about do it like singleplayer games do then. Let the player choose the difficulty.

 

All singleplayer games have various versions of "easy, normal, hard" and some even offer permadeath if you die.

 

What if the player can choose their own difficulty. Now choosing that in an online game seems complicated, so what about having servers dedicated to the different difficulty levels. Easy servers would be rewarding losing (schools do this like mentioned (and if they didn't I'd have failed highschool....but thats a different topic) and easy servers you can solo most/everything...where as, normal is how most MMOs are now. Hard would be more for the hardcore players, the ones who want to group 100% of the time and have a challenge.

 

I think this would be a good medium. So, for those who want a very casual, easy experience...they can choose the easy servers. If someone wants a hard experience where it is really tedious and very hard to level or do anything...they can choose that as well. Or somewhere in the middle of "normal" difficulty servers.

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  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

5/30/13 4:31:09 PM#34
Originally posted by Novusod

A visualization of Eve Online learn curve. The cliff represents losing your ship, permadeath, whatever. Despite Eve being one of the hardest MMORPG it is still the most popular sandbox. Ten year old game that still has 300k+ subs is quite an accomplishment.

 

 

Eve is actually very easy. The poor documentation, UI and tutorial makes it hard to learn, but still, very easy.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3129

5/30/13 4:38:08 PM#35
^^ god eve players love showing this slide don't they.  Eve is not difficult to play at all, the only long term issue is that ultimately you play against players who multibox, or have to deal with the dull and annoying 'gate camps' etc etc.  Brilliant game for PVP lovers ofc.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  Doomedfox

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/10
Posts: 696

5/30/13 4:39:39 PM#36

Well wth why not.

MMOs became very easy over the years and reward you for everything even for not playing (rested exp bonus....) so lets just reward players for dieing on top of that...

........

........

........

Are you for real?

  Martinmas

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 239

5/30/13 4:49:28 PM#37
Originally posted by TheScavenger

What about do it like singleplayer games do then. Let the player choose the difficulty.

 

All singleplayer games have various versions of "easy, normal, hard" and some even offer permadeath if you die.

 

What if the player can choose their own difficulty. Now choosing that in an online game seems complicated, so what about having servers dedicated to the different difficulty levels. Easy servers would be rewarding losing (schools do this like mentioned (and if they didn't I'd have failed highschool....but thats a different topic) and easy servers you can solo most/everything...where as, normal is how most MMOs are now. Hard would be more for the hardcore players, the ones who want to group 100% of the time and have a challenge.

 

I think this would be a good medium. So, for those who want a very casual, easy experience...they can choose the easy servers. If someone wants a hard experience where it is really tedious and very hard to level or do anything...they can choose that as well. Or somewhere in the middle of "normal" difficulty servers.

While I do not agree with offering rewards for failure I do fully agree with this and have even posted this before on beta forums during a few beta tests.

 

I think if MMOGs would have offered servers that cater to different play-styles the MMO genre would be a better place for everyone now. This way 100% of the game would be enjoyable tor all play-styles instead of just having a fraction of the game being fun for most.

 

Keep "normal" servers like there are now but also add solo, small group and full group servers. This would be the same as the way PVP and role-play servers are offered up as options.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5920

5/30/13 4:54:58 PM#38
Originally posted by ShakyMo
First game I came across that did this was wow not a fps.

People afking their way to pvp greatness in battlegrounds.
People saying "stop trying, let's loose,quicker we get more tokens that way"

Etc..

LEEROYYYYYYYYY

 

joke aside, I believe the OP used the wrong wording. That's all. I agree with the OP.

clearly you are forgetting Vanilla WoW. Afking in PvP was a aftermath of the change in the first expansion to the honor system, which wasnt the same in vanilla WoW. So clearly that was an affect of the System, not the death penalty in anyway, since that never changed.

 

losing and dying are two different things. In WoW when you were rewarded for your lost, you still had a motivation to at least attempt PvP. Otherwise people would simply avoid it when they are on the losing side. Look at WvW for an example of this in effect. 

But in WoW people would still come back even if losing. This at least rewards the winning side with people to play against, while rewarding the losing side to come back.

its great game design. Most MMO developers are poor at game design. Simple as that.

  Corthala

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 267

5/30/13 4:55:24 PM#39
I still think that Spellborn got it right: Reward you for not staying alive.

"you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"

One of those great lines from The Secret World

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

5/30/13 5:00:49 PM#40
Originally posted by TheScavenger

What about do it like singleplayer games do then. Let the player choose the difficulty.

 

All singleplayer games have various versions of "easy, normal, hard" and some even offer permadeath if you die.

 

What if the player can choose their own difficulty. Now choosing that in an online game seems complicated, so what about having servers dedicated to the different difficulty levels. Easy servers would be rewarding losing (schools do this like mentioned (and if they didn't I'd have failed highschool....but thats a different topic) and easy servers you can solo most/everything...where as, normal is how most MMOs are now. Hard would be more for the hardcore players, the ones who want to group 100% of the time and have a challenge.

 

I think this would be a good medium. So, for those who want a very casual, easy experience...they can choose the easy servers. If someone wants a hard experience where it is really tedious and very hard to level or do anything...they can choose that as well. Or somewhere in the middle of "normal" difficulty servers.

Yes. This already works in online ARPG like D3. There is no reason why this shouldn't work in the instances of MMOs.

 

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