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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Free to Play has never and does not exist

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178 posts found
  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5280

5/29/13 4:01:31 AM#141
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Maybe by the end of the year we will get a couple that deserve AAA status, it could be that the success of GW2 will secure funding/extra funding for great titles coming out in the next couple of years. I can only think of a couple of titles that even look like contenders for big funding in the near future. That's why I am so concerned.

Why are you concerned at all? I see enough MMO-like development ... WoP, WoWS, D3 expansion, Destiny, Lineage Eternal .... that it is not likely that i will have nothing to play. Plus, all the existing games like STO are adding content.

And i thought you are in the camp of staying-true-to-one-game. If so, why do you care if there will be lots of development. You just need one.

The development you are mentioning here is good in my eyes too. It is a lateral development, into other online game styles, the more the merrier and there is real quality in some of those games. But I am talking about 3D third person MMO's, not even talking about traditional MMO's here or sandbox. I think the only 3D third person game you mentioned was LE? Its that style of gameplay that costs serious funding. Would you say LE was a AAA release this year?

I accept the likes of STO are doing some good updates, I could add LOTRO and others to that list. But these are MMO's that launched as P2P with the better funding a P2P MMO gets. Not getting that funding effects production values, but not necessarily how good the gameplay is. I am talking about quality of graphics, 3D third person and size of the game world, that's what is going to be hit. Does anyone know if we have had even one P2P launch this year?

This is my concern, we get all our lemming like players saying "Yeah it is F2P now, I waited until it was, aren't I clever." Meanwhile we are headed of a cliff where very few MMO's are coming out with that P2P funding. So will our lemmings be saying that next year, the year after that?

It is like eating the goose that lays the golden egg and saying "Yeah aren't we lucky!"

  Banquetto

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1033

5/29/13 4:50:17 AM#142
Since I'm not a penniless hippie, I'm pretty OK with the fact that it costs money to play games that cost millions of dollars to develop.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10872

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/29/13 6:18:35 AM#143


Originally posted by duuude007

Originally posted by Jetrpg

LoL is f2p.

Which uses a cash shop to keep itself afloat.



Again, this is not a revelation. Everyone here knows that a F2P game is not Free. Games require money to operate. Some aspects of the game are given away for free, and some aspects cost money. That is "Free To Play".

When there is an issue, it is with individual game implementations, not Free To Play itself. Giving away some free "taste" of something has been part of business as long as there have been markets. "Free To Play" is just a new version of this process. It allows more people to join games that they otherwise might not even try. It allows half of the people playing F2P MMOs to play for free. Millions of people are playing MMOs for free when they otherwise wouldn't play them at all. Developers are making more money and more people are playing.

Now, I'm not saying it's all roses and sunshine, but it's not all belladonna and moonlight either. Each game will rise or fall based on the merits of the game, which includes the merits of that game's F2P implementation. If they have a poor F2P implementation, it can tank the game. If they have a good implementation, it will help the game. LoL has more players than any other online game. I would say this means their F2P implementation is a good one, or at least one that doesn't take away from the game.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3345

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/29/13 8:41:54 AM#144

Of course there are free to play games ! All you have to do is getting a freeware game. Theres even MMOs:

http://www.planeshift.it/

http://stendhalgame.org/

http://www.ryzom.de/

http://www.multiversemmo.com/site/

Of course, you have to either provide the server hardware, or find somebody who does it for you.

  Jemcrystal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1354

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/29/13 8:57:49 AM#145
Originally posted by Adamantine

Of course there are free to play games ! All you have to do is getting a freeware game. Theres even MMOs:

http://www.planeshift.it/

http://stendhalgame.org/

http://www.ryzom.de/

http://www.multiversemmo.com/site/

Of course, you have to either provide the server hardware, or find somebody who does it for you.

If it's that free then it's illegal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10872

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/29/13 9:02:02 AM#146


Originally posted by Jemcrystal

Originally posted by Adamantine Of course there are free to play games ! All you have to do is getting a freeware game. Theres even MMOs: http://www.planeshift.it/ http://stendhalgame.org/ http://www.ryzom.de/ http://www.multiversemmo.com/site/ Of course, you have to either provide the server hardware, or find somebody who does it for you.
If it's that free then it's illegal.



Er, no. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what those games offer.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5280

5/29/13 10:46:03 AM#147
If you could enlighten us? These Games are open source or the like, but you need your own server to run some of them?
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20125

5/29/13 11:25:57 AM#148
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac

I think some people defend generic F2P games because they just want to play a free game.

 Which is a perfectly viable and reasonable position.

Agreed.

Yeah. And there are plenty of fun F2P games to play.

Meh... that's subjective. Perhaps I'm a bit too particular when it comes to these things. I find F2P games to suck. To each their own, I always say.

Of course fun is subjective. However, millions of players, including me, are playing these games and the games must be fun for them (and for me). Otherwise, why would i spend even a second in them?

So if you don't like them, don't play. But millions others do.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20125

5/29/13 11:31:18 AM#149
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Maybe by the end of the year we will get a couple that deserve AAA status, it could be that the success of GW2 will secure funding/extra funding for great titles coming out in the next couple of years. I can only think of a couple of titles that even look like contenders for big funding in the near future. That's why I am so concerned.

Why are you concerned at all? I see enough MMO-like development ... WoP, WoWS, D3 expansion, Destiny, Lineage Eternal .... that it is not likely that i will have nothing to play. Plus, all the existing games like STO are adding content.

And i thought you are in the camp of staying-true-to-one-game. If so, why do you care if there will be lots of development. You just need one.

The development you are mentioning here is good in my eyes too. It is a lateral development, into other online game styles, the more the merrier and there is real quality in some of those games. But I am talking about 3D first person MMO's, not even talking about traditional MMO's here or sandbox. I think the only 3D first person game you mentioned was LE? Its that style of gameplay that costs serious funding. Would you say LE was a AAA release this year?

I accept the likes of STO are doing some good updates, I could add LOTRO and others to that list. But these are MMO's that launched as P2P with the better funding a P2P MMO gets. Not getting that funding effects production values, but not necessarily how good the gameplay is. I am talking about quality of graphics, 3D first person and size of the game world, that's what is going to be hit. Does anyone know if we have had even one P2P launch this year?

This is my concern, we get all our lemming like players saying "Yeah it is F2P now, I waited until it was, aren't I clever." Meanwhile we are headed of a cliff where very few MMO's are coming out with that P2P funding. So will our lemmings be saying that next year, the year after that?

It is like eating the goose that lays the golden egg and saying "Yeah aren't we lucky!"


LE is isometric, diablo style. It may not even come out in 2013.

You mean 3D THIRD person? There is no (or very few) 3D 1st person MMO.

But the real issue is this .. why do we "need" P2P funding? So they make shorter games, with less content. It does not say the quality decreases. So we will just have more games, but shorter ones to play. That is perfectly fine with me.

And yeah we are lucky. I have no problem killing the goose. There are other animals to eat, after the goose is all gone.

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1850

5/30/13 1:37:47 AM#150
Really wondering if any1 of those that want all games go free have ever in his/her life worked for free for any1 or anything. Guess not. Such people love free things when OTHERS money and time is involved. 
  Zairu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 493

Yes, this is a personal attack.

5/30/13 1:59:40 AM#151
Originally posted by Datastar
Originally posted by DMKano

I disagree - PoE and Neverwinter, I maxed out in both games never spent a single cent.

 

 

 didnt neverwinter just come out and your already maxed out?  mmorpgs used to be played for very long periods of time, this f2p instant gratification market makes me sick.  Like little rabbits hopping from 1 game to the next and game designers are profiting off the slum the mmorpg market has been in.  When someone comes out and releases a real title that has massive staying power and appeals to many these little freemium games will taper off.

 

 

 

what did you do about gaming before MMORPGs came out?

 

did you buy games, beat them, and then play another? does that make you sick about yourself that you used to play games like that?

 

or was the first video game you played an MMORPG?

 

i remember fondly my first video game. it was 'Adventure'. my player character was a square. my sword was two lines. and the dragons looked like badly stenciled sea horses.

 

i beat the game, and then played space invaders, and yes, i felt sick to my stomach afterwards, realizing i had become a game hopper!

 

and then there was 'Mario'. can you believe that i had the nerve to play 'Castlevania' after i played 'Mario'. AND THEN!!! THEN!!!.... i played 'Metroid'.

 

Omg, your right. this sickens me. i feel so dirty now....

  Zairu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 493

Yes, this is a personal attack.

5/30/13 2:09:17 AM#152

i don't play F2P mmo's, but i do enjoy F2P games such as PoE, LoL, and Smite.

 

i never felt required to spend money on those games, but after enjoying them long enough i eventually spend what i would on a box price and no more. it only feels right to do so. i am supporting a business that i otherwise enjoyed for free. if the game isn't worth it to me, i won't play it that long anyway, no more than a couple hours usually, just to test the waters.

 

that said, i haven't spent a dime on PoE yet, because everything in the cash shop just seems useless. so i'll wait a while and see what gets added later.

 

those three titles alone piss all over the OP and any point that it attempted to make.

 

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5280

5/30/13 2:30:19 AM#153
Originally posted by daltanious
Really wondering if any1 of those that want all games go free have ever in his/her life worked for free for any1 or anything. Guess not. Such people love free things when OTHERS money and time is involved. 

 

Yes, it would be very interesting to know if our F2P lovers would work for free? Somehow like you I think not.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

5/30/13 2:37:56 AM#154
Originally posted by randomonetimeposter

This is what companies do. They have, let's say, a free period. Where a player can play their game without hassle. After this grace period they start to put in certain measures to Force said player to either buy stuff from their store or sub for the game. This is from hands on experience and it goes for any game company.

 

Saying a game company who sells their game as F2P, has only making money in their curriculum, is quite accurate.

 

A writer on MMORPG wrote an article about F2P which I read. Decent enough I guess. But since I've always believed that game companies are no worse than the maffia when it comes to raking in cash from their customers I will continue to A. Buy games and B. Sub for games. No inbetween prostitution or slavery.

 

What they are doing is calling US, yes gamers, stupid.

So far games i played who are free2play are free2play for me ive not spent one dime EVER in cash shops or DLC so what your on about not exist EXPLAIN?

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5280

5/30/13 2:45:14 AM#155
Originally posted by nariusseldon


LE is isometric, diablo style. It may not even come out in 2013.

You mean 3D THIRD person? There is no (or very few) 3D 1st person MMO.

But the real issue is this .. why do we "need" P2P funding? So they make shorter games, with less content. It does not say the quality decreases. So we will just have more games, but shorter ones to play. That is perfectly fine with me.

And yeah we are lucky. I have no problem killing the goose. There are other animals to eat, after the goose is all gone.

Indeed, 3D third person, my spelling was subject to a lack of funding in my post, so it was not as polished. Get the idea?

Thinking shorter MMOs with less content is a good future for the MMO industry, or for that matter online gaming, is very short sighted. Not having true 3D third person, not having as polished a UI, not having visuals which are as good results in MMOs and games of inferior quality. This is not rocket science, take your favourite MMO, imagine it was built with half the finding it actually had, do you think it would have been as good?

Finally my analogy with the golden goose, it means there will be no more golden eggs (P2P MMOs) for you to play in 6 to 12 months down the line when they go F2P.

Oh and I was wondering can anyone answer this question, have there been any P2P or B2P releases so far this year?

 

  ksternal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/12
Posts: 76

5/30/13 5:14:35 AM#156
Technically you are wrong, Star Trek Online, if you work hard enough you can get basically anything a sub'ed player has.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10872

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/30/13 6:00:35 AM#157


Originally posted by Scot

Originally posted by daltanious Really wondering if any1 of those that want all games go free have ever in his/her life worked for free for any1 or anything. Guess not. Such people love free things when OTHERS money and time is involved. 
 

Yes, it would be very interesting to know if our F2P lovers would work for free? Somehow like you I think not.




So now the companies that have a F2P business model aren't evil, the people who consume the free content that the companies put out specifically for people to consume are lazy or self centered? Oh, that's right, they have a sense of self entitlement.

Lame.

F2P is a modified advertising setup. Publishers can spend half their budget on advertising, or a quarter of their budget on advertising and a quarter of their budget on running the free portion of a F2P game.

People consumed free advertising, free trials and shareware versions of games for years and nobody was running around equating those people to freeloaders or saying they had a sense of self entitlement. This isn't any different. Get over yourselves.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  hatbox

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/13
Posts: 38

5/30/13 8:19:27 AM#158
Originally posted by free2play

Games would like you to spend money but there are plenty you can run around in and not fork over coin.

 

The issue is, they are supposed to be massive multi player and frankly there are too many of them and not enough of us to make them all massive multi player. Micro Multi player would be a better description. 90% of 'end game' players spend 90% of their time either in queue or lobby 'looking for groups'. LFG has been the bane of the MMO since it began. That's the purpose of free access. To eliminate that LFG factor. Making access free but roping people in to a cash shop to get the holy end game defeats that purpose.

 

It's why I prefer Sand box. I don't need a group to take a dump. I can amble about and do things. If an opportunity comes up to group, great but I'm not feeling like I'm waiting at the DMV to get my drivers license renewed in the mean time.

Agreed, except some games are not big enough to be MM games, like NW. That's why they keep you going from instance to instance, dungeon to dungeon, for the most part. The zones are tiny, just like the "world" map.

  NeVeRLiFt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 377

5/30/13 8:48:46 AM#159

I disagree.

Plenty of good free to play games out now.

 

Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW
Playing: Sims 3, TSW & LoTRO
Waiting on: Everquest Next, ArcheAge, Wildstar & WoD!
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1919

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

5/30/13 8:52:58 AM#160

3 words to prove you wrong:

 

league of legends.

 

 

totaly free 2 play. thx for the discusion tho. but if lol exist, f2p exists too.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

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