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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » When a MMO goes F2P what does that usually mean about the game's future?

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58 posts found
  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4499

5/28/13 8:02:48 AM#21

When an mmo goes f2p its usually at the end of its life.. subs are dropping slowly so less cash is coming in. So games switch to f2p to try and get some more cash in.. sometimes this works and allows the game to carry on running and in some cases grow..

 

Still if the game is bad in the first place going f2p will not help with that... it will still be bad.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 7570

5/28/13 8:03:31 AM#22

Not every game is the same and not every F2P model is done the same way.

Its not as easy as removing the sub and then throwing some items on the item shop, you do this and your F2P model will tank hard.

F2P model can be very lucrative if implemented correctly - and that is the tricky part, this is why major game companies have entire teams dedicated to monetization and business intelligence. If you make your game P2W you lose revenue long term as players get turned off for example.

What most players don't realize is that a F2P model is more complicated than a sub model, as you have more transactions and many sub-based games simply dont have the payment processing set up to handle 1000s of small transactions.

yes F2P with item shop is more complicated than sub - this is for example why game companies take months to implement F2P correctly.  It takes a lot of work to set up the item shop correctly (monetization and business intelligence teams), and ensure that payment processing systems are in place to deal with real time transactions (including auditing and all the PCI compliance online companies have to do these days)

So players see F2P as something you just switch on, in reality its a TON of work compared to a sub model.

So what does it mean - it means the game Dev spent a lot of cash (usually in millions for a AAA MMO) to convert to F2P/microtrans model especially if the original game was built as pure sub-based game.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2782

5/28/13 8:04:09 AM#23
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Over the years, lots of AA MMOs have been converting to a non sub model.

but what does this usually mean regarding the game's future in terms of new content and new game features.

looking at Rift, which is the latest of the big AAA MMO to take the bite. Rift at on point was tossing content to the community rapidly. 

Also they were dishing out brand new gameplay features constantly.

 

but after the conversion to a non sub based, it is usually assumed that with less money coming in that means less new game play features and less new content churning out.

 

but is that truly the case with most conversions?

what usually happens?

This assumption has been proven wrong, how many times now?

 

I'm not real sure why this thread was created by a site "vet", if not for bating and riot inciting. We are now several years into the big P2P to F2P push and the big-name titles that made the change are doing fine.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 7570

5/28/13 8:10:11 AM#24

Here is an example of a developer talking what it would take to switch their game to microtransaction model:

 

http://forum.gsplayers.com/archive/index.php/t-51776.html

. We don't have the capability to do that. Just updating the website alone to using a new access system, while still maintaining PCI Compliance, would take over a year with the staff we currently have

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/28/13 8:11:13 AM#25

The numbers don't seem to support the idea any more.

I'm struggling to remember; did they ever, or was it just a gamer "Truth By Repetition"?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  ro8ter

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/13
Posts: 23

5/28/13 8:17:11 AM#26
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by ro8ter

If you have a fantastic product, word of mouth is the only advertising you need.

"Build it and they will come" only works in the movies. Any MMO relying solely on word of mouth either has to pray for some viral miracle or become content with obscurity. Neither is a good marketing strategy.

 

 

Let's use EQ and WoW as examples.  Both had excellent word of mouth advertising.  People would call their cousins and tell them to stop what they are doing, they have to play this game now.

It's not so much as a strategy as a phenomena.   After the population explosion, the main stream media picks it up.

If a game is good, you can't keep people away. 

  erictlewis

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3065

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

5/28/13 8:18:30 AM#27

For the most part it is a cash grab.  The development team switches from playable content being generated to generating items to put in the store for sale.

At least that is what I saw with LOTRO, and with EQ2.

I still play eq2 its got a lot of great content, but my number one complaint is the number of items being produced and put in the store, when they should be killing bugs that have been around since the dawn of the game, 

EQ2 had a saying a while back "Play your way",  honestly the mantra should have been play our way, as they sure taken a lot of fun out of the game with some very bad decisions lately.  

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/28/13 8:27:12 AM#28
Originally posted by ro8ter

Let's use EQ and WoW as examples.  Both had excellent word of mouth advertising.  People would call their cousins and tell them to stop what they are doing, they have to play this game now.

Of course, both also had sizable advertising budgets, even early on.

Compare it to the 200 other titles on our mmorpg list? Massive advertising budgets, by mmo standards. Most of those other titles make do with (effectively) zero.

We get what you're saying, but not really the best examples. Blizzard or SoE or Funcom? The only guys that do get some actual ad money to play with?

CCP's a better one, I think. We're willing to start off really small, we'll just keep plugging for years, word of mouth will eventually make us big. But CCP's also a good example of his point--how much bigger, and how much earlier, with advertising?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  whisperwynd

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1503

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

5/28/13 8:29:15 AM#29
 What I want to know MmoExposed, is why you make thread after thread about the inanities of the mmo genre but never return to discuss them?
  ro8ter

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/13
Posts: 23

5/28/13 8:31:19 AM#30
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by ro8ter

Let's use EQ and WoW as examples.  Both had excellent word of mouth advertising.  People would call their cousins and tell them to stop what they are doing, they have to play this game now.

Of course, both also had sizable advertising budgets, even early on.

Compare it to the 200 other titles on our mmorpg list? Massive advertising budgets, by mmo standards. Most of those other titles make do with (effectively) zero.

We get what you're saying, but not really the best examples. Blizzard or SoE or Funcom? The only guys that do get some actual ad money to play with?

CCP's a better one, I think. We're willing to start off really small, we'll just keep plugging for years, word of mouth will eventually make us big. But CCP's also a good example of his point--how much bigger, and how much earlier, with advertising?

 

Eve is a good example.  But they advertised a lot too.  Eve's ads were everywhere for a time.

But Eve is a good game.  Eve was never in danger of not having players.

If it's a good game, players will show up.  If it's a mediocre game, you can't retain players.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/28/13 8:32:00 AM#31
Originally posted by whisperwynd
 What I want to know MmoExposed, is why you make thread after thread about the inanities of the mmo genre but never return to discuss them?

Pot stirring is a delicate art.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  whisperwynd

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1503

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

5/28/13 8:33:14 AM#32
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by whisperwynd
 What I want to know MmoExposed, is why you make thread after thread about the inanities of the mmo genre but never return to discuss them?

Pot stirring is a delicate art.

Only if you lack any sort of culinary skills...

  Jemcrystal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1472

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/28/13 8:35:45 AM#33
Originally posted by whisperwynd
 What I want to know MmoExposed, is why you make thread after thread about the inanities of the mmo genre but never return to discuss them?

I missed that memo where we were required to come back and look at a thread. 

  whisperwynd

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1503

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

5/28/13 8:37:31 AM#34
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
Originally posted by whisperwynd
 What I want to know MmoExposed, is why you make thread after thread about the inanities of the mmo genre but never return to discuss them?

I missed that memo where we were required to come back and look at a thread. 

Then why even make one in the first place? 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/28/13 8:38:11 AM#35
Originally posted by ro8ter

But Eve is a good game.  Eve was never in danger of not having players.

A bit of revisionist history? Took at least five years to get 'off the ground' in terms of sales.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  AIMonster

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2056

5/28/13 8:38:19 AM#36
Originally posted by sportsfan
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

F2p, b2p, p2p, converted, and everything in between are all good.  A game's future is it's player base plus the capability of the game's owner to keep the game running and running well.  Pay model really has little to nothing to do with it unless the pay model is so bad it offends and drives away most the player base.

 

Wrong. A game's sole future is its revenue, not (free) player numbers. The moment you pull the subscription plug, you unplug your steady revenue. As such these games have a very doubtful future as nothing is for free in this competitive world. 

What you see now is merely a MUCH needed shake out. Too much free garbage, it is time 95% of those free thingies are weeded out.

It is bad for the business to promote crap. And no, turning a turd to free to play is even worse.

Like all the games that switched to the F2P and have since shutdown?  I'm pretty sure switching to F2P as revitalized a number of games that were failing and made the company significantly more money than they were making under the sub model.  I can't a think of a single MMO than went from sub based to F2P that shutdown, can you?

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 457

5/28/13 8:43:46 AM#37
TERA and SWTOR were ghost towns before they converted to F2P. They have healthy populations now. The same thing is happening to Rift now (population has been rising very quickly after the F2P announcement)

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2504

5/28/13 9:06:01 AM#38
Originally posted by AIMonster

I'm pretty sure switching to F2P as revitalized a number of games that were failing and made the company significantly more money than they were making under the sub model.  I can't a think of a single MMO than went from sub based to F2P that shutdown, can you?

As I wrote above, CoH. But I agree with you on the revitalizing part, and I believe strictly because of the f2p switch CoH also could be among us. (meaning the shutdown had nothing to do with the f2p conversion, CoH was in a pretty decent shape)

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12992

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

5/28/13 9:16:44 AM#39
Originally posted by ro8ter
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by ro8ter

If you have a fantastic product, word of mouth is the only advertising you need.

"Build it and they will come" only works in the movies. Any MMO relying solely on word of mouth either has to pray for some viral miracle or become content with obscurity. Neither is a good marketing strategy.

 

Let's use EQ and WoW as examples.  Both had excellent word of mouth advertising.  People would call their cousins and tell them to stop what they are doing, they have to play this game now.

It's not so much as a strategy as a phenomena.   After the population explosion, the main stream media picks it up.

If a game is good, you can't keep people away. 

I don't even know where to begin with that one. At their release, each had the biggest ad campaign for their time, both including even TV commercials.

Cool Crowfall info and speculation - http://www.thewulfden.com/search/label/Crowfall

  Silacoid

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 244

5/28/13 9:19:07 AM#40
Check out DCUO for an example of how a reputable company deals with F2P.  They for example saw double the revenue AFTER the switch to F2P than they did from the subscriber based system.
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