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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A long time MMO player's lament

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85 posts found
  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

5/27/13 12:27:39 PM#41
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

All right, joo win (?)

It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric

Incidentally, the word "rhetoric" has nothing at all to do with truth or falsity.

True enough in essence. But seems most use the term when they can't argue the point further. Just as you only quoted that section because it's what you could argue and ignored the rest.

Mainly, because it's the basis of the guy's argument and it is false. There's no point in arguing the conclusion. If someone says chickens are red and then argues why the red color needs to be changed, the most reasonable response is to remind the person that chickens aren't red.

What Icewhite posted earlier was rather spot on. However, what's also worthy of note is that you and many others cast these blanket aspersions on developers and then wonder why they don't listen to you. :)

 

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/27/13 12:31:31 PM#42
Originally posted by Loktofeit

What Icewhite posted earlier was rather spot on. However, what's also worthy of note is that you and many others cast these blanket aspersions on developers and then wonder why they don't listen to you. :)

Thanks Lok, but we're descending quickly into the themepark/sandbox thread (honestly, I'd rather not go there again).

I don't think you can talk people out of defeatism, once they've accepted it. Not easily, anyway.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1039

5/27/13 12:33:47 PM#43
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

All right, joo win (?)

It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

"Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

Lol, and your the classic case of the personal critical of the person critical of the gaming industry.  

I don't think the good old days were better in terms what it was or I'd still be playing those same games.  Things were better in a sense that there was more creatively and freedom with what we could play.  Though some of it is because budget cost cause developers to be less risky and another is because some genre didn't exist.  Some genre are tired and dead.  

But I do other things besides spending endless hours in MMORPG's because they're largely generic and I don't even have the time anymore nor would want to spend endless hours on a game.   But as I said before I'll wait on the sidelines until there is a game that's really worth my investment and I will occasionally talk about it on forums.  If that borthers you maybe you should find a new hobby as well?

  kakasaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1263

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

5/27/13 12:37:57 PM#44
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

All right, joo win (?)

It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

"Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

This here is a prime example of the modern gamer ASSUMING and defending the theme park treadmill they like because it's all there is.

Did I say anywhere the old way was better? No. Did I say today's gamer's don't know how to play the games right? No. There was plenty that definitely needed upgrading. But there are also PLENTY of elements that defined them as a unique and separate genre from console gaming that have gone extinct in the name of numbers and greed.

It's possible to have those old elements and new combined and make a decent game.

I love how people such as you say I and others should just find a new hobby too. If tables were turned, I would not be telling you the same...and the reason is because I am not selfish and everyone is entitled to their opinion and tastes....and because I had what I wanted en mass, doesn't mean I should tell others they can't hope for something they enjoy, or tell them to leave.

I am absolutely sure if old school MMORPG gamer's invaded console gaming en mass and whined to have them slowed down, more interaction between players, etc, etc and companies listened because they became the majority....long time console players would be up in arms.

 

Your entire post reads "old time games were better and the ones today suck!" I never told you to find a new hobby. My advice was that if you found today's games so bad, maybe it just means it is time to move on or stick to the old games. just being a realist. Times change and people change. I can't stand today's music so I refuse to buy new albums. I just stick to the oldies.  But you don't see me ranting on forums how today's music sucks and music was better back in the day (it was).

Look mate, I was in the same boat. Hated today's games and longed for the days of Shadowbane and EQ. But, I had two choices: Quit the hobby I love or find some tolerable modern MMO and make the best of it. I wend with the second option and continue to enjoy the hobby I love. Simple as that. It's a choice. That was all I was offering you. But please, do not let me derail you from your bitter rants. Carry on.

 

P.S. If some dev decides to make an updated, modern version of Shadowbane... please e-mail me where I can send you a blank check.

 

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  aspekx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2197

5/27/13 12:38:24 PM#45

but at the same time while learning to accept the difference between what is possible and what simply is, you can have standards that i dont think are unreasonable.

 

for example, i would love to see a Defiance game with an actual harvesting and crafting system. i dont think im demanding too much there. yet at the same time it would be ridiculous to scream at Defiance and Defiance players that they are getting it all wrong for everyone who plays.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/27/13 12:40:46 PM#46
Originally posted by kakasaki

P.S. If some dev decides to make an updated, modern version of Shadowbane... please e-mail me where I can send you a blank check.

chuckle, did you check the Kickstarter list? Usually a few copies of every 'classic' game ever made on that list, at any given time.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  jacktors

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/11
Posts: 150

5/27/13 12:41:24 PM#47

I think we have gotten past what the OP was trying to say. I believe his/her point was that the current MMORPG's are taking shortcuts via instancing and fetch quests. They are hand-holding their subscribers as to not scare them away. But what initially grabbed MMORPG lovers in the first place, was the simple immersion factor. I think we can all agree that the newer games have a certain lack of player community, far less than our previous MMORPG's. 

Is it a crime to find like-minds in a MMORPG forum? Maybe that next great game designer will read this forum post and think that these are great points. Obviously, if most of the readers/posters of this topic agree with one another,  well that is something for the game designers to open their eyes to. 

But to say shut up, stop being grumpy, and go play the games already out there, while you over-look the parts you detest, you are not helping the genre. 

It is a game designer's job to find what works for the "majority audience" and fill that need. That is marketing 101.  But if these same game designers have no way of knowing what the majority wants, because most of us are "settling" with what is out there, they will have no way to know how to create that next great MMORPG that knocks our virtual socks off. 

  kakasaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1263

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

5/27/13 12:43:09 PM#48
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

All right, joo win (?)

It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

"Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

Lol, and your the classic case of the personal critical of the person critical of the gaming industry.  

I don't think the good old days were better in terms what it was or I'd still be playing those same games.  Things were better in a sense that there was more creatively and freedom with what we could play.  Though some of it is because budget cost cause developers to be less risky and another is because some genre didn't exist.  Some genre are tired and dead.  

But I do other things besides spending endless hours in MMORPG's because they're largely generic and I don't even have the time anymore nor would want to spend endless hours on a game.   But as I said before I'll wait on the sidelines until there is a game that's really worth my investment and I will occasionally talk about it on forums.  If that borthers you maybe you should find a new hobby as well?

And you are a classic of reading comprehension fail and not reading an entire thread. I could care less if people are critical of the gaming/MMO industry. It affects me not one iota and does not diminish my enjoyment of the hobby one bit. My original post was meant to explain why people feel the old days were better and how insidious nostalgia can be when it comes to memory. My reply to the previous poster was offering some advice that he may be happier moving on if he doesn't "like" the hobby anymore. It was honest friendly advice but I could give a flying f if he takes it or not.

 

Let me end with the classic "And you are a classic case of personal critic of the personal critic of the personal critic of the gaming industry." See how silly that is? 

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  kakasaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1263

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

5/27/13 12:50:54 PM#49
Originally posted by jacktors

I think we have gotten past what the OP was trying to say. I believe his/her point was that the current MMORPG's are taking shortcuts via instancing and fetch quests. They are hand-holding their subscribers as to not scare them away. But what initially grabbed MMORPG lovers in the first place, was the simple immersion factor. I think we can all agree that the newer games have a certain lack of player community, far less than our previous MMORPG's. 

Is it a crime to find like-minds in a MMORPG forum? Maybe that next great game designer will read this forum post and think that these are great points. Obviously, if most of the readers/posters of this topic agree with one another,  well that is something for the game designers to open their eyes to. 

But to say shut up, stop being grumpy, and go play the games already out there, while you over-look the parts you detest, you are not helping the genre. 

It is a game designer's job to find what works for the "majority audience" and fill that need. That is marketing 101.  But if these same game designers have no way of knowing what the majority wants, because most of us are "settling" with what is out there, they will have no way to know how to create that next great MMORPG that knocks our virtual socks off. 

Can we stop with the fallacious arguments that anyone had told anyone to shut-up? For Fs sake. Stop making things up. 

Now, regarding your post, no we can not all agree that new games lack community. Yes, while you and I may agree, many other see it just fine. It is all opinion.  Also, I am sorry to burst your bubble as it where but most game designers don't bother with forums. Why should day? No one can agree on anything, most posts from jaded gamers go on about how developers today are lazy, greedy, untalented. etc, etc. Why would you listen to someone like that?

Do you want to know the best way to send a developer a message and shape the genre to what you like? Give you a clue... it isn't posting on forums. Give up? Well it's STOP BUYING GAMES YOU DON"T LIKE! Nothing send a clearer message than that. Like it or not, many people like the current games, pay for current games and devs will keep catering to these people because they are the ones forking over the $$$$. 

Sorry if it sounds harsh folks, but that is how the real world works.

 

 

 

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1039

5/27/13 12:52:13 PM#50
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

All right, joo win (?)

It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric

Incidentally, the word "rhetoric" has nothing at all to do with truth or falsity.

True enough in essence. But seems most use the term when they can't argue the point further. Just as you only quoted that section because it's what you could argue and ignored the rest.

Mainly, because it's the basis of the guy's argument and it is false. There's no point in arguing the conclusion. If someone says chickens are red and then argues why the red color needs to be changed, the most reasonable response is to remind the person that chickens aren't red.

What Icewhite posted earlier was rather spot on. However, what's also worthy of note is that you and many others cast these blanket aspersions on developers and then wonder why they don't listen to you. :)

 

 

 

 

So how can something not based on true or false but rhetoric than suddenly be false?  Again show me what I am saying is false.  

 

1. I said the gaming/entertainment industry has been consolidated and formulated.  My opinion based on the buying of small companies by large.  Her's opinion is that its "rhetoric

 

2. I said the MMORPG has largely formulated games based on World of Warcraft which came out in 2004 which is my opinion based on the games I've played.  Her opinion is that it's "rhetoric."

 

3. I said that I make my statement with my pocketbook.  Is that false?

 

4. I said I play MMORPG's but I don't spend money on them unless I have a footprint in the world.  Is that false?

 

5. I listed what I did in my spare time.  Is that false as well?

 

But you guys have become the classic forum warrior who are here to try to point out flaws in disgruntle, dissatisfied or whatever.  But you guys ALSO always have the option to find something else to do with your time than try to show the disillusioned, delusional, disgruntled or whatever you thinks going on the light.

 

  MMORPGRIP

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/13
Posts: 90

5/27/13 12:52:59 PM#51

@kakasaki

I Am currently playing 1 MMORPG. Although F2P and heavy steeped in using the cash shop to stay competitive (Although I do not as I am not that into PvP)...it's the only one I found that keeps me interested. And most of that is due to it having a decent community, which is something most now are sparce in having.

 

Just gonna leave it there because there is no point in continuing the same tired argument any further. Much as VR has said...I'll just continue to wait and see if someone brings out a MMORPG that has open world, epic quests, grouping content, and brings back the journey being important and not the destination. Hopefully EQ Next will bring that....but not holding my breath either....after all...this is SOE we are talking about.

 

My only fear is if it indeed meets that criteria...the masses don't get it shifted the other way with excessive whine. But again...this is SOE we are talking about. If that happened...all hope is lost and it WILL be one hobby abandoned.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/27/13 12:53:06 PM#52
Originally posted by jacktors

It is a game designer's job to find what works for the "majority audience" and fill that need. That is marketing 101.  But if these same game designers have no way of knowing what the majority wants, because most of us are "settling" with what is out there, they will have no way to know how to create that next great MMORPG that knocks our virtual socks off. 

It's possible that the One True Game won't ever happen, because we want 10 million different 'perfect game' list-of-features?

That's an awful lot of dart board bullseyes to hit.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  kakasaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1263

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

5/27/13 12:57:30 PM#53
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

@kakasaki

I Am currently playing 1 MMORPG. Although F2P and heavy steeped in using the cash shop to stay competitive (Although I do not as I am not that into PvP)...it's the only one I found that keeps me interested. And most of that is due to it having a decent community, which is something most now are sparce in having.

 

Just gonna leave it there because there is no point in continuing the same tired argument any further. Much as VR has said...I'll just continue to wait and see if someone brings out a MMORPG that has open world, epic quests, grouping content, and brings back the journey being important and not the destination. Hopefully EQ Next will bring that....but not holding my breath either....after all...this is SOE we are talking about.

 

My only fear is if it indeed meets that criteria...the masses don't get it shifted the other way with excessive whine. But again...this is SOE we are talking about. If that happened...all hope is lost and it WILL be one hobby abandoned.

And I don't disagree with you on what makes a good MMO. Hell, my version of a great MMO was Shadowbane and that didn't exactly have mass appeal. This is just an argument about perceptions, nostalgia and the vagaries of "truth". No hard feelings were meant. 

And if someone releases an open world, epic quests, grouping content and bring back the journey being important AND CITY BUILDING AND POLITICS.... well, I'll be right there with you on opening day.

Cheers.

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  MMORPGRIP

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/13
Posts: 90

5/27/13 1:00:11 PM#54
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
 

 

But you guys have become the classic forum warrior who are here to try to point out flaws in disgruntle, dissatisfied or whatever.  But you guys ALSO always have the option to find something else to do with your time than try to show the disillusioned, delusional, disgruntled or whatever you thinks going on the light.

 

That's something I find curious and humorous too. With some of these guys ridiculous post counts...seems most time is spent here rather than in these games so vehemently defended.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/27/13 1:07:57 PM#55
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

That's something I find curious and humorous too. With some of these guys ridiculous post counts...seems most time is spent here rather than in these games so vehemently defended.

Wait, was that a reverse argumentum ad numerum? Bravo!

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  kakasaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1263

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

5/27/13 1:08:27 PM#56
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
 

 

But you guys have become the classic forum warrior who are here to try to point out flaws in disgruntle, dissatisfied or whatever.  But you guys ALSO always have the option to find something else to do with your time than try to show the disillusioned, delusional, disgruntled or whatever you thinks going on the light.

 

That's something I find curious and humorous too. With some of these guys ridiculous post counts...seems most time is spent here rather than in these games so vehemently defended.

Ahhh, just when I thought you were a decent guy.... 

Way to stay classy: Don't like someone arguments, go for the personal attacks....

 

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1039

5/27/13 1:08:58 PM#57
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

All right, joo win (?)

It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

"Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

Lol, and your the classic case of the personal critical of the person critical of the gaming industry.  

I don't think the good old days were better in terms what it was or I'd still be playing those same games.  Things were better in a sense that there was more creatively and freedom with what we could play.  Though some of it is because budget cost cause developers to be less risky and another is because some genre didn't exist.  Some genre are tired and dead.  

But I do other things besides spending endless hours in MMORPG's because they're largely generic and I don't even have the time anymore nor would want to spend endless hours on a game.   But as I said before I'll wait on the sidelines until there is a game that's really worth my investment and I will occasionally talk about it on forums.  If that borthers you maybe you should find a new hobby as well?

And you are a classic of reading comprehension fail and not reading an entire thread. I could care less if people are critical of the gaming/MMO industry. It affects me not one iota and does not diminish my enjoyment of the hobby one bit. My original post was meant to explain why people feel the old days were better and how insidious nostalgia can be when it comes to memory. My reply to the previous poster was offering some advice that he may be happier moving on if he doesn't "like" the hobby anymore. It was honest friendly advice but I could give a flying f if he takes it or not.

 

Let me end with the classic "And you are a classic case of personal critic of the personal critic of the personal critic of the gaming industry." See how silly that is? 

It was meant to sound silly.  Its what happens when you start trying to be demean people's opinions even if you don't agree.  Or break an issue down to select statements and reply with zingers to prove a point of superior ground in the discussion.  As it does seem to bother people to see these arguments by some of the responses.

There is something to be said of getting a new hobby.  This isn't a one way it can be done genre where things have to stay the same.  But I know myself personally will just stand on the edge of the pool and wait for what I want.  Doesn't take much time to check in to see what's going on.

The thread was meant to discuss what some people feel has been lost in the MMORPG genre.  Not surprising what's going to be in this thread lol.

 

  kakasaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1263

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

5/27/13 1:11:52 PM#58
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

At a certain point if you want change you have to reject the industry.  Gaming in general or even just entertainment in general has become corrupted.   The dream has been snatched from dreamers and pushed into corporate formulated cash cows.

Classic gamer rhetoric, really.

All right, joo win (?)

It's actually truth. You claim it as rhetoric because it goes against what you like and you are apparently happy with the current trend of the MMORPG genre.

"Truth" is a pretty subjective thing when it comes to likes/dislikes. May  be "truth" to you but not to many of us.

I see it as 2 types that are fine with how far off the path the MMORPG genre has gone.

1) Those that came in with the mass media marketing of WoW from other genres and don't really know what made them what they were prior to nor care. Or..

2) Old school gamers that want to try and hold onto MMORPG gaming, but don't have the time, or want to dedicate the time needed to play them as they were meant to be played...so have no issue with them de-evolving into console style games to meet their own needs.

Meant to be played? Pray tell in what manual or holy book of gaming does it state how an MMO is supposed to be played? Ohhh, you mean play it like "YOU" like.... gotcha!  

All you have to do is look at the history of the MMORPG industry and the gigantic influx of companies trying to make their mark simply due to WoW's huge success of mainstreaming the genre. It's nothing but a quick cash grab now more than making a quality product fans can enjoy for years on end. No more passion put into their games.

Again, your opinion as many people are happy with the game they currently play.

This here is a prime example of the jaded vet syndrome: "Everything was better back in the day!" "Today's players don't have the right mind set and don't know how to play games right!!! " 

Sadly, if this is how you feel about the genre, maybe it is time to find a new hobby?

Lol, and your the classic case of the personal critical of the person critical of the gaming industry.  

I don't think the good old days were better in terms what it was or I'd still be playing those same games.  Things were better in a sense that there was more creatively and freedom with what we could play.  Though some of it is because budget cost cause developers to be less risky and another is because some genre didn't exist.  Some genre are tired and dead.  

But I do other things besides spending endless hours in MMORPG's because they're largely generic and I don't even have the time anymore nor would want to spend endless hours on a game.   But as I said before I'll wait on the sidelines until there is a game that's really worth my investment and I will occasionally talk about it on forums.  If that borthers you maybe you should find a new hobby as well?

And you are a classic of reading comprehension fail and not reading an entire thread. I could care less if people are critical of the gaming/MMO industry. It affects me not one iota and does not diminish my enjoyment of the hobby one bit. My original post was meant to explain why people feel the old days were better and how insidious nostalgia can be when it comes to memory. My reply to the previous poster was offering some advice that he may be happier moving on if he doesn't "like" the hobby anymore. It was honest friendly advice but I could give a flying f if he takes it or not.

 

Let me end with the classic "And you are a classic case of personal critic of the personal critic of the personal critic of the gaming industry." See how silly that is? 

It was meant to sound silly.  Its what happens when you start trying to be demean people's opinions even if you don't agree.  Or break an issue down to select statements and reply with zingers to prove a point of superior ground in the discussion.  As it does seem to bother people to see these arguments by some of the responses.

There is something to be said of getting a new hobby.  This isn't a one way it can be done genre where things have to stay the same.  But I know myself personally will just stand on the edge of the pool and wait for what I want.  Doesn't take much time to check in to see what's going on.

The thread was meant to discuss what some people feel has been lost in the MMORPG genre.  Not surprising what's going to be in this thread lol.

 

No one has tried to demean anyone's opinions but you. It was a relatively friendly discussion on nostalgia and people who clamor for games form their past. Of course you know this but just want to stir the pot. So I refuse to engage you in any further discussions.  Cheers!

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  Killsmallchi

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 279

Don't be simple

5/27/13 1:13:05 PM#59
I am going to try and make this comment constructive. Can you make a tl;dr section for your tl;dr section? This is a very opposing wall and it only is made worse knowing the tl;dr section is still a wall. 

  IstrebiteI

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 272

5/27/13 1:18:58 PM#60
I believe there is no such game, OP.
 
GW2 has great customization (just insane really with every weapon having its own skill set etc), but awful crafting economy (because there is one AH for whole game, all the servers, meaning you can never earn anything on your crafts because a gazillion of players all over the world can do the same). It also has no World PVP but reasonably fun huge-scale instanced pvp (its an instance specifically made for PVP but its a size of several normal game zones). GW2 also has that "wanderlust" aspect you're looking for - jumping puzzles, secret nooks and crannies, all that is awesome. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much to do at endgame, because even though you can get downleveled and go to lowlevel zones, mobs there are too easy after you experience level cap mobs. And no WPVP - no danger.
 
I don't really know about anything else. I guess you should not be against paying for a game (really, you can try before you buy, and if you like it, would you be unable to pay ~$50?) especially because you're looking for a quality product and quality product should cost money, no?
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