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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What size a MMORPG should have to keep player play it for a year ?

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43 posts found
  iixviiiix

Elite Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 430

 
OP  5/25/13 12:33:16 AM#1

i just finish another 1 month contents MMORPG , i start to feel that MMORPG nowadays are too small.

In older game , because of heavy grind , game last longer. But now , MMORPGs are too short to feel like a MMORPG

 

Most MMORPG nowadays give us 50 to 60 level at they launch , with it , we will get  around 10 big maps and 5 to 15 instances

around 500 to 1000 quests with most of them are minor worthless quests.

 

But it are too little to feed our empty "stomach"

and before we know , game ready end

 

I'm don't want to back to heavy grind time , i don't have much time now

i think i ready become "fat" and need more of game contents to fill my "stomach"

 

I think a good mmorpg should big enough for player to keep play it for a year

So

What size it should be to worth a year gaming ?

50 maps 100 instances and 10000 quests 10 battlefield and 7 castles to siege ?

More or lest.

 

 

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2422

5/25/13 2:23:50 AM#2

No MMO is going to have a year's worth of content at launch.

And the amount of content you want(50 zones, 100 instances, 10,000 quests) is pretty much impossible if you want the MMO to be released within your lifetime.


Player's burn through content much faster these days. Player's are more focused and information is more readily available. So, even if an MMO did launch with 100 instances players would still burn through them and demand more in a few months.


Also, the amount of content is meaningless if its bad. Quality over quantity. Yeah, we arent exactly getting much quality these days but MMOs definitely wont get any better if they prioritize quantity.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4314

5/25/13 2:27:09 AM#3
It really depends on the person. If you have a job and a life outside gaming the content in games doesn't go all the quick.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

5/25/13 3:18:25 AM#4

For a powergamer like myself, I would need an impossible amount of content; and the quality and polish it would need to keep me interested for a whole year...

Yeah... impossible.

Good PvP keeps me playing. Or when there's nothing better around.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  JimmyYO

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 519

5/25/13 3:22:41 AM#5

It's not the size it's how you use it.

Seriously though games need to be alot more top heavy if they want to avoid the mmo graveyard. Almost every game in the past decade has been extremely bottom heavy.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/25/13 3:28:18 AM#6
Originally posted by Quirhid

For a powergamer like myself, I would need an impossible amount of content; and the quality and polish it would need to keep me interested for a whole year...

Yeah... impossible.

Good PvP keeps me playing. Or when there's nothing better around.

Impossible, really?  Historical, maybe?

The first necessity is opening with game without six (or more) months of Beta Testing. That means no Wikis open before the game is, no websites chock full of maps and data, and no "Oh, I know this boss, this guy's easy."

You've just extended the working 'lifetime' of your content by several months, longer with "complete x before y becomes available" gating.

Of course, without that "free preview" your game won't have the hype buildup necessary for a sizable launch, either. And the expected howling about bugs...well, cover your ears.

Be aware that some players will gas-pedal all the way the cap, and conclude they're "done" the moment it's finished. That implies leveling curves with more in common to EQ1 circa 2001 than WoW circa 2013.

(And indirectly, implies kissing all of those dolllars goodbye)

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Stuka1000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 782

5/25/13 5:43:12 AM#7
Originally posted by iixviiiix

i just finish another 1 month contents MMORPG , i start to feel that MMORPG nowadays are too small.

In older game , because of heavy grind , game last longer. But now , MMORPGs are too short to feel like a MMORPG

 

Most MMORPG nowadays give us 50 to 60 level at they launch , with it , we will get  around 10 big maps and 5 to 15 instances

around 500 to 1000 quests with most of them are minor worthless quests.

 

But it are too little to feed our empty "stomach"

and before we know , game ready end

 

I'm don't want to back to heavy grind time , i don't have much time now

i think i ready become "fat" and need more of game contents to fill my "stomach"

 

I think a good mmorpg should big enough for player to keep play it for a year

So

What size it should be to worth a year gaming ?

50 maps 100 instances and 10000 quests 10 battlefield and 7 castles to siege ?

More or lest.

 

 

No themepark will ever have that amount of content at launch.  If you want an MMO with longevity then the systems must be in place for the community to create it's own content.  For that you need an open world, persistent sandbox like Eve.  Themeparks are slowly dying out now as everyone is sick of the same old formula so expect more sandbox games on the horizon.

  piehole

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/08
Posts: 43

5/25/13 5:48:38 AM#8
Yep, the key to longlivety is more playerbased and driven content. Luckely more and more devs are realising that. 1 exaple is old EQ2 with its playermade dungeons and playermade gears.
  aleos

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 1895

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.

5/25/13 6:15:02 AM#9

A reason to log on

Huge non linear world or worlds

Themepark quest line (optional)

player made quests

no main story

character customization

weapon customization

armor customization

clothing customization

vehicle customization

item decay

equipment slots - ears, nose, lips, chin, eyebrows, forehead, cheeks, neck, shoulders, arms, bicep, tricep, forearms, hands, knuckles, fingers (10 fingers so 10 slots), hips, legs, thighs, quadriceps, knee, calf, ankles, feet.

All equipment slots visible. player chooses what can and cant be seen.

rewards must come from the game. not the shop.

 

other things i cant think of.. cuz im tired

 

i guess just imagine spending money to go to a theme park every month that only has one ride.. with no variety in every visit. This theme park sucks

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Jemcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1255

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/25/13 6:48:36 AM#10

Good sizes:  FFXI, EQII, Vindictus, WoW.  

 

Rift had nice realistic landscape that was easy to cover - no invisible walls.   I really wish they had made it bigger.  I would have stayed much longer if they'd had more to explore.  Rift had decent quests.  Size does matter if you have made a great game.  Final Fantasy kept adding zones.  I thought that was how all games worked but I found out otherwise. Why?  Would it really hurt them to plot out more growth?  Gives me the feeling the game designers and artists are asking for to big a pay check.

 

DDO really needed a hell of a lot more for the high level free players.  They got obsessed with making money by taking away zones from the free to play crowd.  That was a stupid gun shot to the foot.  If they had just run a normal cash shop with potions and pets they would never have lost their momentum.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6538

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/25/13 7:02:08 AM#11

Well you need grind but as long as you keep the game fun to play,grind is never a factor.For myself the linear questing is what bored me to death,i really don't like waddling back n forth between npc's.I prefer to setup camp and enjoy the real reason i am playing,that is combat and enjoying my character and all the mechanics that go into both.

When i waddle between quests ,i am spending countless hours clicking menus i really don't care about and clicking through text i don't care about.Also whilst i am waddling between npc's i am doing nothing but opening and closing maps looking for markers.

I also do not like the way devs have designed questing ,you know some how my Warrior is a more experienced Warrior just because i ran an errand.

so i think i made it clear,i don't want questing as my content,i want creative ideas like FFXI Besieged or Campaign or the many other ideas a game like FFXI offers.How about ideas liek RIFTS or ARKfalls anything different than questing.I cannot fathom how some developer way back when decided that a person's dream to Role play would involve being an errand boy and then every developer afterwards said "hey brilliant idea,we all want to be errand boys".../sigh.

Point is if you make the game fun to play it can have tons of grind and still keep players coming back.What we are seeing is really cheap,boring,generic,cost effective game development.I would be happy with 30 levels and taking a year to get level max,it would actually allow me to enjoy that rare piece of equipment i got at level 1 without  having to replace it 10 minutes later.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  nerovipus32

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2696

5/25/13 7:09:19 AM#12
Make it less game and more  virtual world, boom.... content problem solved.
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18715

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

5/25/13 7:10:10 AM#13

You don't need more content, you need longer lasting and more addictive "hooks" to keep you playing.

CCP does this in EVE with its real time training, probably no other game like it where people literally keep paying sub fees to keep their training going, sometimes while playing other MMORPG's.  Add in a skill tree that would take almost 28 years to fully train and you've got a formula for locking in players for durations even WOW can't really rival. (and really encourages players to purchase multiple accounts)

Add in it's sandbox playstyle, deep meta game, and real consequences and rewards for your actions, and the fact you can actually lead a literal stellar empire crushing all in your path makes for gameplay unrivaled anywhere else in the MMORPG world that I can think of.

DAOC did it well back in the day, as it really didn't have that much content.  First, the leveling curve was tough, esp from levels 40-50, and it took me well over 3 months of heavy playing to get my first level 50. 

Next, each class was very unique, and far beyond the trinity with roles of cc, buffer, buff shearer and solid hybrids to fill in between so you were greatly encouraged to roll outs to try out the different playstyles, I've had about ten 50's over the years.

More hooks, an arduous, tedious crafting system that added real value to your gear templates, most people did one or more again,spending more time in game not only to level, but to actually do the crafting, getting a full set of 100% gear or gems took real time, could easily blow an entire play session trying to do it. (and a ton of money)

Another hook, the RVR end game, which not only let you take keeps but also control Darkness fall, arguably the best money making spot in the game if your realm controlled it, and a really fun source of conflict when the entrance changed hands.

Additionally, RVR gave you access to Realm abilitys, a 2nd tier of character abilities that could help you be a better RVR or PVE player, and it had steep curve in the beginning. 

All of this (not including TOA with many people are split over) meant the title had a huge longevity, and it wasn't uncommon for people to stick with it for several years. (I have 3 years myself, and am currently playing a form of it today)

These hooks I've mentioned are described by others as "Time-sinks" but without them MMORPG's have devolved into very short term playing experiences that people quickly leave once they burn through the quests/stories/dungeon content the developers have provided.

 

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2465

5/25/13 7:10:39 AM#14
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Make it less game and more  virtual world, boom.... content problem solved.

+1

  Grailer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 819

5/25/13 7:17:05 AM#15
Originally posted by delete5230
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Make it less game and more  virtual world, boom.... content problem solved.

+1

+1

 

What you want Is a sandbox .  Those type of games last for years.  For example Ultima Online was a sandbox and I played that for 3 years non stop .  

I would've probably played even longer but they ruined PvP to cater for carebears . Pretty dumb really they could've made PvE servers but instead forced me to quit game .

 

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5078

5/25/13 9:08:47 AM#16
Here today gone tomorrow might as well be the industries catch phrase.
  GeekieDave

Novice Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 41

5/25/13 9:15:44 AM#17

When we look at how immersive the worlds of MMORPG's compared to games like World Of Warcraft are pretty small. The reason why we have so much in games like Warcraft is because the years of expansions and content that were added. Rift is another example of having a large world that we can dive into. There's not only enough content for us to go through and enjoy but the quality of the world is pretty darn good as well!

I just think that developers need to work more on the world and less on the amount of content. I'd like for them to create enough just for us to hit max level but have a large enough world that will be something we want to go out and explore. An example would be taking a break from the questing and going to explore the world that is around

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  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11822

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

5/25/13 9:36:07 AM#18
Originally posted by iixviiiix

I think a good mmorpg should big enough for player to keep play it for a year

So

What size it should be to worth a year gaming ?

50 maps 100 instances and 10000 quests 10 battlefield and 7 castles to siege ?

More or lest.

The size of the world and the number of quests are immaterial to how long a player stays.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11822

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

5/25/13 9:43:14 AM#19
Originally posted by Grailer
Originally posted by delete5230
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Make it less game and more  virtual world, boom.... content problem solved.

+1

+1

What you want Is a sandbox .  Those type of games last for years.  For example Ultima Online was a sandbox and I played that for 3 years non stop .  

I would've probably played even longer but they ruined PvP to cater for carebears . Pretty dumb really they could've made PvE servers but instead forced me to quit game .

Actually, it was an accidentally brilliant solution. Although a band-aid to the problem, it identified that of the people interested in an FFA PVP virtual world, only about 20% are going to actively PVP. The rest like the option to be able to participate in it if they want to (without having to roll/level a new character on a different server with no gear/gold) or just simply know it is there.

This is something that EVE seized and capitalized on, but few devs since have actually acknowledged it. It's why most FFA MMOs fail miserably. Those 'carebears' you complain about are doing the PvE stuff so that you don't have to. As long as they can continue to, with relatively low risk, bake buff cakes and craft the machines of war, you are free to PvP and throw money at then for the stuff you need. They keep you from having to do the stuff you don't want to do in an RPG, freeing you up to enjoy the carnage on the battlefield with minimal, if any, downtime to do tasks you probably rather not do.

 

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

5/25/13 9:46:02 AM#20
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by iixviiiix

I think a good mmorpg should big enough for player to keep play it for a year

So

What size it should be to worth a year gaming ?

50 maps 100 instances and 10000 quests 10 battlefield and 7 castles to siege ?

More or lest.

The size of the world and the number of quests are immaterial to how long a player stays.

So does "it needs to be a sandbox". Game style is immaterial to its ability to engross and immerse players.

Sorry, that's really a response to something several posts higher up, I guess.

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