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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Becoming a F2P Convert

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172 posts found
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12387

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

5/24/13 9:06:37 PM#21
Originally posted by Blackaddera
 And with paying subscription you help ensure the game services are top.

What do you base that on?

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

5/24/13 9:41:25 PM#22

I don't agree with your "we are nomadic" point at all. I think alot of the non core gamers that MMO companies have courted since WOW are nomadic as you say. That said I think there are just as many if not more of us types that were playing computer games before it went mainstream out there that would love to find a MMO of quality and substance that have deep systems that didn't focus around combat (PvE OR PvP) but instead were applied alongside them in equal merit, to call home for years.

 

Unfortunately MMOs like that were just not made by companies with enough talent and money to do them right post WoW. So what we have instead is a bunch of combat oriented games that don't have enough content to last more than 30-60 days and dev teams that can't keep up with the consumers. Forced nomadic behavior.

 

Fortunately we have a few Kickstarted games on the horizon that hearken back to that old first generation MMO style that gave reasons to stay around for years. Games like The Repopulation, Pathfinder Online, Camelot Unchained, Embers of Caerus, and a few others. Even non MMO marketed games like Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar. These games are being built with the idea that there is more to a world than just fighting and that that more is soundly built on the shoulders of the players making it happen IF they get the right set of robust tools.

 

You can't just label your kid a pepperoni pizza lover if you don't give them the choice to have other things on the pie for 8+ years. You may be surprised when you give them a supreme and they tell you how all those toppings make for a much more interesting pie than just the combat...I mean, pepperoni pie.

 
 

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2273

First came pride, then envy.

5/24/13 10:31:43 PM#23
It all depends on the f2p model.  If it's akin to Swtor's f2p, then i won't support it.  I mean seriously, they are limiting players with hotbars and other minor inconveniences, etc.  That's just too extreme.  The upcoming Rift model looks reasonable though, but from what i've read, they are offering dungeon gear for real money, which is essentially "pay to win".  Buy-to-play is my preferred model, ala GW2, and so far, they only offer convenience & cosmetic items.  The only MMO i will sub to though, is WoW, because it has so much content: 11 races, 11 classes, and 4 expansions worth of content, etc.
  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2273

First came pride, then envy.

5/24/13 10:40:19 PM#24

"When game's can't develop under a subscription model, free-to-play gives them a second chance."

To be honest.  I would rather have them die, instead of letting them live with another chance.  They failed for a reason, and that's because players didn't want to support bad development, and bad game design.

  centkin

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 816

5/24/13 10:46:37 PM#25
The most expensive games are free.
  DanitaKusor

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/17/09
Posts: 544

5/24/13 10:46:52 PM#26

I used to maintain up to 4 subscriptions to MMOs at once, but now there are a number of good free-to-play or buy-to-play offerings out there, I cancelled all my subscriptions late last year which saved me enough money to buy and pay for my new mobile phone.

I personally believe that pay-to-play options are dead and doubt I would ever pay another game subscription.

The Enlightened take things Lightly

  c0exist

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 187

5/24/13 10:49:01 PM#27
Originally posted by The1ceQueen

Same here, I'd pay up to $50 a month for a good mmo these days, sad there aren't any. :(

F2P and B2P attract a crowd I don't really care for.

I completely agree with this statement.  

  pantheron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/08
Posts: 173

5/24/13 10:57:05 PM#28
Originally posted by DanitaKusor

I used to maintain up to 4 subscriptions to MMOs at once, but now there are a number of good free-to-play or buy-to-play offerings out there, I cancelled all my subscriptions late last year which saved me enough money to buy and pay for my new mobile phone.

I personally believe that pay-to-play options are dead and doubt I would ever pay another game subscription.

Im  with you. After playing all the quality F2P titles I have, i neve no real reason to subscribe to anything anymore. 

I play MMOs for the Forum PVP

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

5/24/13 11:01:04 PM#29
There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.
  Bcuda

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/13
Posts: 60

5/24/13 11:39:28 PM#30
I too hate the micro transactions .I will never buy something in the game for a toon. I will pay a monthly fee if the game is worth it. I played eq and eq2 for years. Then it started to  go down hill. I hate station cash. Why not release the game and let us play for 2 or 3 months. Then Charge us for a Character .If the game is good we will pay. and If we want more characters sell us a characters... NOT bags. I have no problems paying for expansions.  I dont want to spend 5 bucks for a horse .But a good game i would pay 50 bucks for a second or third character as long as there are no micro transactions.... Or try a server that is a p2p but you cant buy anything except skins and pretty stuff..
  Boardwalker

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 383

5/24/13 11:58:30 PM#31
Originally posted by Shana77

I like GW2's model as well. The developers get a large influx of money trough the box sales that enables them to proceed with developing content without having to nickel and dime everything to stay alive.

 

Keep telling yourself that. Box sales for Gw2 are drying up faster than a puddle on a Texas highway in the middle of summer. Nickel and diming will come sooner rather then later.

I much prefer paying a measly $15/month sub to ensure consistent support and game updates, not to mention helping to maintain and improve the hardware infrastructure.

 

They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1474

5/25/13 12:23:50 AM#32
Tera, GW2, Rift, TSW, EQ2, AoC, EQ, DCUO, PS2, LotRO, etc. yeah I don't see myself ever subbing to anything again.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5266

5/25/13 2:25:53 AM#33

Conversion? Players are being converted to F2P at gun point, they are not being given a choice. Just like we had to accept extremly linnear themeparks, we now have to accept F2P. It is like going down to your local resturant and finding out they are now a Macdonalds, you eat or go hungry.

“Here's what I've found it doesn't promise that I used to believe: low quality, pay-to-win, constant manipulation, and ignored content development.”

In his article every F2P MMO Chris mentioned launched as P2P. Every single one, does that not tell him anything? Have a look at F2P MMO’s which launched as F2P and then get back to us on their quality.

Pay to Win is here, courtesy of the cash shop in P2P, F2P and B2P. It is not the F2P model which brought us P2W it is the cash shop which nealry every MMO now has.

Not sure what “constant manipulation” is, but ignored content, once again have a look at F2P MMO’s which launched as F2P. In those which started as P2P content updates have been good then trailed of after conversion to F2P. Some like Lotro still do large free content updates, but that’s a rarity.

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4890

5/25/13 2:33:57 AM#34
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

3 to 4 a year ?  What kind of quality mmo do you expect to be made that keeps people for 2-3 months and remains p2p. You complain about crappy f2p mmos but you're as much to blame as anyone for why there are no sub games left. You're an mmo tourist. That mentality is why p2p died.

  Emrendil

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 200

5/25/13 3:37:38 AM#35
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

There's even more people who can't.

  Emrendil

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 200

5/25/13 3:43:41 AM#36
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Tera, GW2, Rift, TSW, EQ2, AoC, EQ, DCUO, PS2, LotRO, etc. yeah I don't see myself ever subbing to anything again.

Same. I don't mind paying for a game, but paying for a gametime is just no no to me.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2945

5/25/13 3:49:03 AM#37
Originally posted by Emrendil
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

There's even more people who can't.

Sure, there's literally 100's of millions of people who can't afford to pay MMO subs. That's a truly shameful situation.

 

We should start a massive worldwide campaign to have MMO gaming declared as a "Basic Human Right". Then everyone could have access without any discrimination or deprivation.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6702

5/25/13 4:31:01 AM#38

Huge mistake made in your breakout of the f2p space.  It is pretty obvious you don't play many of them to understand the difference.

Besides the b2p, you have major differences in how the f2p is constructed.  You have the standard f2p with the cash shop, you have the f2p with a subscription option and you have the f2p that is pay-to-win where without major cash shop purchases your avatar is much less than others that do.

The f2p with a cash shop isn't too bad, while the cash shop really helps gameplay, there are no overpowering items in it to make it absolutely necessary.  Unfortunately, there are not many of these left, the developers of these almost always end up changing to a pay-to-win scenario.  You usually find these in the early life cycle of f2p games although there are some older games that have avoided the pay-to-win cycle.

The second option is the f2p with a subscription option.  I think DDO was the first to do this, quite successfully I might add.  These are more free to try, but you need a subscription to really enjoy the play.  Lotro, Swtor, DDO, AoC, TERA, etc.  Rift will soon join this group.

Lastly we have the pay-to-win bracket.  While you can play these games without the cash shop, you inevitably have to buy from it for your avatar to be competitive.  They almost always have some form of gambling involved in the equipment upgrade process, be it chance boxes from the store or processes that have a very low chance of success without store items.  It seems certain producers like gPotato Frogster, Perfect World and others almost always have games like this.  Players can spend thousands of dollars upgrading their avatars only to start the process all over again when the company raises the level limit.

I try out many of the first category, but have not really found much fun playing any of them.  I do currently play many of the second bracket and I usually subscribe if I like the game.  I flat out avoid the last bracket, while I admit I do try them out, I have found all of them to be lacking.  Neverwinter is a good example of this.  It is a fun game to play, but once you reach endgame it is pointless, so why bother getting there.  

You the customer have to decide which direction you choose in this space.  If money is no object than the last category probably is for you.  If you have a limited budget, you really need to avoid the last category as you will not be really able to enjoy it.

 

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

5/25/13 4:44:43 AM#39
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

3 to 4 a year ?  What kind of quality mmo do you expect to be made that keeps people for 2-3 months and remains p2p. You complain about crappy f2p mmos but you're as much to blame as anyone for why there are no sub games left. You're an mmo tourist. That mentality is why p2p died.

Don't be so narrow in thought. I didn't mean that I would play all four. I just meant that I would rather see that many quality games released instead of the many junk games. I said nowhere in my post that I would play all 4. Now, 4 to choose from? Yes.

Reading is fundamental.

 

Also, there are people who sub more than one game...

 

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

5/25/13 4:47:27 AM#40
Originally posted by Emrendil
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
There are literally millions of people who are willing to pay sub fees for a quality game. This has been proven. The only thing that a free to play model does is keep sub par games afloat. Give me 3 or 4 quality P2P games a year & I'll be far happier than trudging through a never ending buffet of unsatisfying MMOs.

There's even more people who can't.

 

Let them eat cake.

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