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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Am I just too old to PvP?

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50 posts found
  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1657

5/22/13 6:57:47 PM#21
Originally posted by Bjelar
 

I'm more badass now than I ever was, but unfortunately I'm only better than 99%, which means thousands are better than me. The 99% doesn't PvP.

I understand that a statement like that sounds arrogant but it is very true. 

 

With sports I was the best at my high school in nearly every sport I played in (senior year of course). In college I knew I could make any team I wanted to try out for (I never even worried about it). In video games my biggest geek moment was during my time playing Day of Defeat (an original half life engine game). I played CAL with a buddy and we played for a few teams in our time but were so damn good at that game that we had gone up against ranked 5 or 6 man teams (can't even remember how big the average team was anymore ... so long ago) and defeated them 5/6 on 2.

 

I have to say I was so damn good at that game it even scared me. I was banned from nearly every PUG server because they thought I cheated. Even players who swore they were awesome were no match (I was invited on a team once because on their practice server I walked over them so much that they asked to actually see me play in real life. Their core members were in my city so we met up and they couldn't believe how well both myself and my friend  could play DoD ... they were ranked CAL players remember). That said I ran into a very small handful of players who were just as good as me and even better in some areas. 

 

Meeting these players at that skill level is amazing though. At some point you realize you aren't learning anything new as things become too easy. It is funny how a game where thousands play you can find a very small portion of truly skilled players and they all know instantly who each other is. I knew each of their play styles backwards and forwards. It is actually why I could eventually defeat them on average more than they defeated. Typically they would walk over me but I would slowly learn their tactics and best them before long. Some had serious skill and I admit they were even better than me. Luckily in DoD spacial awareness, map control and knowing some very closely held "trade secrets" (not cheats but tactics) would often turn fights into my favor. This was remembering the games we knew hacks weren't playing a role of course.

 

Besides rambling on I guess my point is that one has to realize that there are players out there that take their game VERY seriously and are pros because they practice like pros. You have to accept you can only compete up to a % of their level unless you commit like they do. Even someone with lesser skill than you will beat you in games where gaming intelligence can be applied. I could go from well practiced maps in DoD absolutely dominating everyone (10-1 kill ratios or better easily)  then on a new map to me and completely suck the big one (like 2-1 ratio which in my mind was scary bad).

You stay sassy!

  Nephelai

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/13
Posts: 159

5/22/13 7:04:14 PM#22

MMO's aren't a test of player skill at all - there are too many other factors that will allow you to be out geared, out numbered, out leveled etc. To me, MMO PvP is where the people who are bad at FPS 1v1 come to PvP because as mentioned above they will at least get the satisfaction of killing someone at some stage.

 

I'm 46 and back in my day I used to play Quake competitively - I have won country CTF and TDM championships and 5th 1v1. Back then I HAD TO play 4-6hrs a night to maintain a high aim accuracy and to memorise maps, sounds, timings etc. People who are bad often rant about twitch reflexes but in reality while you do get a twitch kill now and then mostly its due to you having honed your aim. During that time when people who couldn't play well joined server they got smashed and MMO's or those machine gun style spray and wipe FPS (CS, Battlefield etc) became popular because of the lesser skill requirement.

 

While at the highest level ther are some great MMO PvP players these are people that were also great FPS players. The average players that are beating you are more than likely out leveling, gearing, numbering, classing you.

 

I still don't get why PvP in MMO's doesn't have a mode where you can join an arena 1v1 and pick a premade class with equalised gear and dual - well I do, its because it would turn MMO's backwards to the original competitive level of games of old and drive players away which is bad for business.

 

Just imagine, being able to join an arean and dual with the same class and gear - then you'd truly know where you stand.

 

  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 771

5/22/13 7:08:35 PM#23

I'm pushing 50 myself and I think it's just a question of habit and practice more than anything. Yes, reactions do start to fade but not to any amount that should preclude you enjoying PvP.

I came from a FPS background before getting into MMO's in the late 90's and I've kept my "twitch" by continuing to play FPS games. The trend to a more action oriented combat in MMO's hasn't bothered me due to still having the muscle memory / habit / skill, whatever you want to call it, from FPS games.

If you find you're having trouble with this kind of combat then I highly recommend you go play a bit of TF2 or even some World of Tanks, which is a bit slower paced but will still get you into that habit of aiming where you want to hit.

It really is just a question of practice. Don't give up just yet. I'm sure you have a few years in you yet.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17007

5/22/13 7:10:46 PM#24
Originally posted by flizzer
Whether it is GW2 or now Neverwinter, I just can't seem to get anywhere in PvP.  Now I'm willing to accept I am just not skilled enough and I will never do well in PvP, but I am also wondering if I am just too old and slow at this point.  The PvP in these games just seem to demand fast reaction times that I don't have.  Maybe it is a bad ping which I hear people talking about, not sure.  Im in my mid 40s and far from in a rocking chair, but I am beginning to feel there is no way I can keep up with these more action oriented games in the PvP department.  Okay, now tell me you are in your 70s and routinely take on 18yr olds and make me feel even worse, lol.   

Well, I'm 2 years older than you and I do rather well i pvp "depending" on the game and class.

The best I've ever done was in Tera.

I took 3 attackers and was able to kill one but there was a stalemate with the remaining two as I was a lancer and had to deal with their ability to completely jump out of my way. Still, I wasn't killed and then a group of others ran after them and they took off.

I was able to take on two reds who were descending on one character who apparently wasn't pvp minded and kill one though the other jumped on their horse and I wasn't able to catch him before he ran to a safe zone.

lastly I had a warrior who was red and very cocky start jumping around me while I was minding my own business. If I remember correctly he was 2 levels above me. I think he "thought" he was psyching me out. I paid him no mind until he started to attack me.

There was one white player who ran up to help me but then realized I didn't need it so he just watched.

In the end I find that the "aiming/action" combat for me is a better fit than tab targeting.

This doesn't mean that I'm the best. Hardly. But I found that I was able to hold my own when needed.

 

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1657

5/22/13 7:12:29 PM#25
Originally posted by Nephelai

MMO's aren't a test of player skill at all - there are too many other factors that will allow you to be out geared, out numbered, out leveled etc. 

 

Just imagine, being able to join an arean and dual with the same class and gear - then you'd truly know where you stand.

 

Sadly that is most mmos greatest failing. I practically screamed at the devs in most mmos I have played asking why the f$ck a player couldn't just ever match up against other players with THE EXACT SAME GEAR LEVEL and see who actually wins. This is practically non-existent in mmos. 

 

I understand most don't understand why this bothers me so much but reading my posts in this thread should teach people that I am a sportsman.  I want an even playing field so people can compete. There is no competition when fairness does not exist. This is why DoD was so damn fun for me. There was no grind to get gear ... you simply played. I can't even touch todays FPS games because they made it into a grind to get gear you should bloody well have from the start. Telling me I have to play for dozens of hours just to unlock crap to put me on par with others in a F$CKING FPS GAME!!! pisses me off too much to bother play them (that and their graphics keep getting better but have shit realism and physics).

 

Developers have placed time played far above the importance of player skill. I can't even imagine now many truly good players have never been able to compete in top end mmo pvp in many games simply because they couldn't stomach the grind to get the best gear. I am exactly like that. I prefer to actually play mmos ... not have them play me. Once I feel like things become a grind I quit. This is why CU interests me greatly. The ENTIRE game is pvp and will be extremely dynamic as it is based entirely within the main game world in large scale.

You stay sassy!

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

5/22/13 10:36:32 PM#26


Originally posted by Nephelai
MMO's aren't a test of player skill at all - there are too many other factors that will allow you to be out geared, out numbered, out leveled etc. To me, MMO PvP is where the people who are bad at FPS 1v1 come to PvP because as mentioned above they will at least get the satisfaction of killing someone at some stage.

 

I'm 46 and back in my day I used to play Quake competitively - I have won country CTF and TDM championships and 5th 1v1. Back then I HAD TO play 4-6hrs a night to maintain a high aim accuracy and to memorise maps, sounds, timings etc. People who are bad often rant about twitch reflexes but in reality while you do get a twitch kill now and then mostly its due to you having honed your aim. During that time when people who couldn't play well joined server they got smashed and MMO's or those machine gun style spray and wipe FPS (CS, Battlefield etc) became popular because of the lesser skill requirement.

 

While at the highest level ther are some great MMO PvP players these are people that were also great FPS players. The average players that are beating you are more than likely out leveling, gearing, numbering, classing you.

 

I still don't get why PvP in MMO's doesn't have a mode where you can join an arena 1v1 and pick a premade class with equalised gear and dual - well I do, its because it would turn MMO's backwards to the original competitive level of games of old and drive players away which is bad for business.

 

Just imagine, being able to join an arean and dual with the same class and gear - then you'd truly know where you stand.

 



The skills in Open and arena PvP are totally different. arena is obviously not doubt more competitive because of its more balanced nature and requiring a lot of knowledge in MMO's or skills in FPS.

Open PvP requires alot more cunning(no im not talking about waiting for somebody to get to half health while mob farming) and it requires much more spatial awareness and being in touch with the player pshyce and i believe it to be more strategic in nature.

..and 2 of the same classes duelling to see who is better?...have you ever watched 2 of the same classes duel in an MMO? id honestly rather have sex with a dude, its less unnatural and atleast there might be some pleasure in it....and it could all be over with before the 2 rogues have even broken stealth on eachother once...

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2417

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

5/22/13 10:47:00 PM#27

I don't know what it is, but many E-sport players have stated that once they get into their mid 20s, their reflexes started to go down. It could be something with muscle memory as we age.  I don't know.

  free2play

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1784

5/22/13 10:50:26 PM#28

You can't be sure what you are dealing with in MMO PvP. $1200 SSD and 30 Mbps or they are modded to cheat.

 

I've played EVE online for 8 years and 90% of EVE I could whip in a PvP fight. I know because they are going the other way most of the time. They don't want to fight me. The 10% that aren't have something up their sleeve. In PotBS most of my fights were either 6 vs 1 or speed jockey, stern campers. In anything level based, they were 20 levels above me or a class that was clearly designed to kill my class.

 

It isn't players, it's games. Yes, no. 0 or 1. Can or can't. Video game fights are won or lost before they even start. The only thing that changes that are random screw ups like disconnects or a sudden drop in latency and those don't count for much in the skill department. It's really all about your hardware.

  copin920

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/07
Posts: 10

5/22/13 11:11:31 PM#29

I was having this discussion with a few friends of mine. I started playing Ultima Online at release when I was 12 (I'm 28 now) and played for years having a blast PKing/PVPing people. However, since I've gotten older I've tried so many newer sandbox full loot and pvp games such as Eve Online and Darkfall and I just can't get into it.

I really can't put my finger on when or why it changed, but it's more of annoyance now. It may be that I actually have a job now and other things going on in my life that I don't want to sink a few hours into a game just to have all of that progress halted by some guys just looking to screw up someone's day. It was definitely a gradual change, but now, I'm so opposed to PVP that i've become something I used to hate as a kid...a carebear.  I never understood when I was playing UO why people would avoid fights, but now I completely get it. I still have no idea why the change happened, but a lot of my friends whom I played UO with have felt the same way.

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1952

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

5/23/13 12:03:47 AM#30
Download Tribes: Ascend (free to play high-speed FPS). Play that relentlessly for a few weeks. If you have any kind of success there it's not age keeping you back in MMOs.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  treelo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/09
Posts: 70

5/23/13 12:59:20 AM#31

Play some chess, do some puzzles.  The only difference is pace.  Reaction speed is nothing if your decisions are always the wrong ones.

Watching older family members falter at what I would consider a simple task in a moderately fast game it quickly becomes obvious they simply can't process the relevant information fast enough and make the right choice.  Those that have remained mentally active either perform much better, or "quickly" adapt (albeit much slower than someone half their age might.) 

A little basic training never hurt anyone.  Most good players react instinctively to specific moves or combinations learned over time.  If you open with A, they'll counter with Y and use Z to counter the B and C they knew were coming.  They tend to fall apart when something unexpected happens.  The best players are those that formulate their own patterns, and are able to change them when the rest of the world catches up.  You'll rarely catch up to those, but a good foundation will put you ahead of most the cookie cutter crowd who draw their knowledge from reading forums and blindly apply it without thinking.

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3309

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/23/13 2:34:49 AM#32
Hrr I'm 40 and I've been using LOL for 15 years now ... no idea why that would be "cringeworthy" but hey, whatever.
  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1271

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/23/13 6:08:36 AM#33
Originally posted by Adamantine
Hrr I'm 40 and I've been using LOL for 15 years now ... no idea why that would be "cringeworthy" but hey, whatever.

This seems out of context to the thread topic.  What does pvp got to do with lolz?  How are you to old to lolz??? I am older than all of you and I lolz and lolz and lolz at everything.

  eiekal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 20

5/23/13 6:22:57 AM#34

Well on the first page they were discussing how the op used Lol and it didnt feel right coming from someone older. 

Nothing wrong with using Lol.  Think back guys when we were playing muds even before visual muds (mmorpg's) like
AOL's Neverwinter nights came out.  We pioneered Lol and rofl etc...
Don't let these young whipper snappers lay claim to Lol ;)

  reap3rzx

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/11
Posts: 39

5/23/13 6:24:38 AM#35
Play an older game, like DAoC. Level up strictly in the battlegrounds to get a feel for the PvP. Try to reach the realm rank cap in each one that you can. Start with playing a healer class to get used to reacting to keeping people up. It's still a very good PvP game where group mechanics are important and you're always better when with a team!
  Naral

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 750

5/23/13 6:32:13 AM#36

I am 42, and suck at pvp in button mashing MMORPGs, and I am in good shape for my age, if that matters. 

That said, I kick ass in Planetside 2 and do pretty damn well in FPSs. For me, it is not so much a matter of skill in MMOs, is I just cannot be bothered to learn all the right combos, or get the right skills, or skill builds to pvp, frankly because the older I get, the less I care about pvp in MMOs. My tastes just lean away from it, and I get my pvp jones taken care of in PS2 and other FPSs.

As others have said, MMO pvp success is also more a matter of time. When I put too much into WoW pvp back in the day, I got pretty good. Those days are gone, I barely have the time to play any of them now, so I squeeze and hour or two into PS2 now and then. 

  Hrotha

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 840

5/23/13 6:35:46 AM#37
Originally posted by flizzer
Whether it is GW2 or now Neverwinter, I just can't seem to get anywhere in PvP.  Now I'm willing to accept I am just not skilled enough and I will never do well in PvP, but I am also wondering if I am just too old and slow at this point.  The PvP in these games just seem to demand fast reaction times that I don't have.  Maybe it is a bad ping which I hear people talking about, not sure.  Im in my mid 40s and far from in a rocking chair, but I am beginning to feel there is no way I can keep up with these more action oriented games in the PvP department.  Okay, now tell me you are in your 70s and routinely take on 18yr olds and make me feel even worse, lol.   

Well I can only speak from my perspective, obviously.

I started gaming pretty much at the start of it all... around 1998 and was a s*cker for pvp. Teens, you get the deal. Now I'm in my mid20s and I developed a greater emotional sensitivity and PvP is too aggressive for me. This is only a good thing, but I doubt any gamer will understand.

Enjoy, what you like.

  Studdley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/04
Posts: 38

5/23/13 6:39:43 AM#38
53 here. I'm a little slower than I was 30 years ago, but still competitive in PVP. I do seem to be avoiding twitch games though. If I have to bunny-hop around in PVP, I'll pass. Someone suggested chess to keep your mind sharp and I would agree. My mom is 90 and does daily cross-word puzzles. She is still sharp as a tack.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/23/13 6:45:00 AM#39
I am to old for progression pve though.

When you've got teenage kids and a full time job, the last thing you feel like doing is running 4 hour raids as a second job.
  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4071

5/23/13 6:53:03 AM#40
Originally posted by flizzer
Whether it is GW2 or now Neverwinter, I just can't seem to get anywhere in PvP.  Now I'm willing to accept I am just not skilled enough and I will never do well in PvP, but I am also wondering if I am just too old and slow at this point.  The PvP in these games just seem to demand fast reaction times that I don't have.  Maybe it is a bad ping which I hear people talking about, not sure.  Im in my mid 40s and far from in a rocking chair, but I am beginning to feel there is no way I can keep up with these more action oriented games in the PvP department.  Okay, now tell me you are in your 70s and routinely take on 18yr olds and make me feel even worse, lol.   

I used to play a real PVP called Darkfall with people in their 40s and they had no issues killing the younger players.. Also played FPS games with people in their 40s and they where bloody good.

 

Its all down to the time/practice you can put into the game.. the older we get the less spare time we usually have haha.. but the younger people usually have tons of spare time..

 

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