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WildStar 

General Discussion  » "Hybrid" Business Model according to Jeremy Gaffney

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45 posts found
  Darkholme

Tipster

Joined: 3/02/04
Posts: 1227

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer..."

 
OP  5/22/13 7:40:36 PM#1

One of the last questions asked towards the very end of the video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfnpbIhY2PU

If you want to go straight to that timestamp;

http://youtu.be/VfnpbIhY2PU?t=16m

Discuss, complain, etc...

Edited for clicky link. ;)

-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

5/22/13 7:43:11 PM#2
The days of only offering P2P are over IMO. Not a surprise. 
  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1217

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/22/13 7:46:38 PM#3
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The days of only offering P2P are over IMO. Not a surprise. 

 

Agreed.

 

The only company that may pull it off for a while is Square Enix since they'll also have their game on the PS3 with the console crowd that's been waiting for it since Final Fantasy XI.  Though the main reason that would be true is because they made the game with their own funds and don't owe any money to publishers or investors.

 

As a whole it's about time we saw something new in terms of payment models.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 402

5/22/13 7:48:24 PM#4
Another nail in P2P's coffin.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  Dahkoht

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 289

5/22/13 7:56:00 PM#5

Hybrid is still far better than true F2P.

 

Having at least some sort of up front cost to make an account means you can't make infinite throwaway accounts to spam/troll/exploit without paying something for each one.

  Tsathoggua

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/10
Posts: 100

5/22/13 8:08:47 PM#6

I don't know why everyone here is so "doomsday" about a hybrid model. We know nothing of the implementation. I would speculate that there is a subscription option, but also that they'll try for a lower barrier of entry. Box price + subscription is a lot to just get into the game. 

The ideal model for me would look like one of these:

A) Monthly subscription that can only be purchased in 2+ month quantities. + F2P model.

Why I like this: It provides the developers with a steady source of income, removes the initial box price, and still allows individuals to play the game free with certain restrictions.

B) Box (+ Subscription) & F2P

This is the most likely to happen. Devs can receive a significant amount of money upfront, as well as a steady stream from dedicated players. Leaving the Free 2 Play option open gives the game the exposure it needs.. Additionally, by making it possible to subscribe without buying a box the Devs can further develop a steady income. 

By purchasing the box you should receive some sort of VIP status, moderately reducing the overall cost of items in the "cash shop" should one exist and providing other permanent benefits. The monthly subscription should supply a moderate amount of cash-shop currency in addition to other bonuses. 

 

My hope is that the Devs make it possible to get everything in game, or allow the sale of cash-shop items on the auction house.

  reeereee

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 707

5/22/13 8:22:00 PM#7

The only thing I want to see in the cash shop is in game currency, so it's just like playing WoW in the glory days except instead of all the cheaters buying gold from sleazy Chinese gold farmers/hackers they're buying it from the company and helping to pay for new content. 

 

I almost hate to see even cosmetics in the cash shop simply because It seems like in f2p games the devs spend a huge amount of time making new clothes/mounts to sell in the cash shop, and why not if that's what they think drives profits.  It also means there is rarely in game ways to earn cosmetics/mounts.

 

(Ok, maybe gender/race/appearance changes aren't that bad as well.)

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1217

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

5/22/13 8:30:13 PM#8
Originally posted by Tsathoggua

I don't know why everyone here is so "doomsday" about a hybrid model. We know nothing of the implementation. I would speculate that there is a subscription option, but also that they'll try for a lower barrier of entry. Box price + subscription is a lot to just get into the game. 

The ideal model for me would look like one of these:

A) Monthly subscription that can only be purchased in 2+ month quantities. + F2P model.

Why I like this: It provides the developers with a steady source of income, removes the initial box price, and still allows individuals to play the game free with certain restrictions.

B) Box (+ Subscription) & F2P

This is the most likely to happen. Devs can receive a significant amount of money upfront, as well as a steady stream from dedicated players. Leaving the Free 2 Play option open gives the game the exposure it needs.. Additionally, by making it possible to subscribe without buying a box the Devs can further develop a steady income. 

By purchasing the box you should receive some sort of VIP status, moderately reducing the overall cost of items in the "cash shop" should one exist and providing other permanent benefits. The monthly subscription should supply a moderate amount of cash-shop currency in addition to other bonuses. 

 

My hope is that the Devs make it possible to get everything in game, or allow the sale of cash-shop items on the auction house.

 

People were all "doomsday" about a hybrid model?  :O

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5352

5/22/13 8:34:19 PM#9

AAA games - F2P and B2P are the only option for a new MMORPG in this market.

If you are a very niche indie game designed for a small dedicated playerbase, p2p could work but at low profits.

 

  Tsathoggua

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/10
Posts: 100

5/22/13 8:34:37 PM#10
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Tsathoggua

I don't know why everyone here is so "doomsday" about a hybrid model. We know nothing of the implementation. I would speculate that there is a subscription option, but also that they'll try for a lower barrier of entry. Box price + subscription is a lot to just get into the game. 

The ideal model for me would look like one of these:

A) Monthly subscription that can only be purchased in 2+ month quantities. + F2P model.

Why I like this: It provides the developers with a steady source of income, removes the initial box price, and still allows individuals to play the game free with certain restrictions.

B) Box (+ Subscription) & F2P

This is the most likely to happen. Devs can receive a significant amount of money upfront, as well as a steady stream from dedicated players. Leaving the Free 2 Play option open gives the game the exposure it needs.. Additionally, by making it possible to subscribe without buying a box the Devs can further develop a steady income. 

By purchasing the box you should receive some sort of VIP status, moderately reducing the overall cost of items in the "cash shop" should one exist and providing other permanent benefits. The monthly subscription should supply a moderate amount of cash-shop currency in addition to other bonuses. 

 

My hope is that the Devs make it possible to get everything in game, or allow the sale of cash-shop items on the auction house.

 

People were all "doomsday" about a hybrid model?  :O

Okay, I guess just one person: Boxsnd. But I know that others will complain :P

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 402

5/22/13 8:44:30 PM#11
Originally posted by Tsathoggua

Okay, I guess just one person: Boxsnd. But I know that others will complain :P

lolwut? I'm very happy this game isn't P2P. I hope the P2P model dies as soon as possible.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  sado2020

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 112

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is my PVP

5/22/13 8:58:07 PM#12
Sounds good to me as I prefer hybrid pay models.  But I would have gladly paid 15 bucks a month for this game : )

Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO

  Akaishen

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 12

5/22/13 9:45:06 PM#13
I like the idea of buy to play with item mall (no pay to win). Definitely see the item mall working for the housing, hero cosmetics, and even the warplots. They could add to this a bit and implement something similar to the Rift Loyalty system. Until the new system comes out, however, I won't know if I like it or not.
  Darkholme

Tipster

Joined: 3/02/04
Posts: 1227

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer..."

 
OP  5/22/13 10:20:16 PM#14
Kind of surprised everyone isn't going all Chicken Little about this. Usually all I hear is "Subscription fee or GTFO!!!" Like any other business model is going to make for a bad game, bad community, etc...

-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2426

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

5/22/13 10:36:41 PM#15
I'm a bit selfish in this, due to wanting a P2P sub.  But, no matter what the model is, i'm sure I will be playing the game.  Additionally, just like with league of legends and path of exile, if the game is a fun, quality product, I have no qualms with supporting them financially (even if I don't have to).
  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 583

5/22/13 10:37:41 PM#16
Originally posted by DMKano

AAA games - F2P and B2P are the only option for a new MMORPG in this market.

If you are a very niche indie game designed for a small dedicated playerbase, p2p could work but at low profits.

 

Disagreed with this completely.  If the game is significantly better than anything in the market like WoW was when it was released people will pay a monthly sub.  If is it on par or just slightly better than MMOs in the market today people won't because there are way too many options out there today in which you can play these games for free.

 

I don't like cash shops in games, but I don't mind a nicely implemented system like Tera has.  I can't stand Rift's F2P system or Neverwinter's payment system.  Neverwinter because you can get the best gear in the game for real life money.  Rift because you can buy anything including dungeon gear for real life money (not the best) but second best.

 

If WildStar does what GW2 did in terms of payment model, but then actually has end game and content to keep people playing unlike GW2.  I would be surprised and it will be a huge welcome.  But then again, there are lot of limitations in terms of gameplay in GW2 due to their cash shop model.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5352

5/22/13 10:52:45 PM#17
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by DMKano

AAA games - F2P and B2P are the only option for a new MMORPG in this market.

If you are a very niche indie game designed for a small dedicated playerbase, p2p could work but at low profits.

 

Disagreed with this completely.  If the game is significantly better than anything in the market like WoW was when it was released people will pay a monthly sub.  If is it on par or just slightly better than MMOs in the market today people won't because there are way too many options out there today in which you can play these games for free.

 SNIP....

 

Significantly better is a lot harder to achieve in a saturated market as it is right now - so what WoW did in 2004 is a LOT more difficult to do now in 2013 (it is almost a decade later after all, the gamers are different, the market is different) and it will be even harder to do in the future. There is more competition, and vast majority of it is F2P, and we're talking well developed games with a lot of content and polish.

A new P2P game is simply out of step with the current gamer trend, and that most players are getting used to, not to mention that F2P is a more profitable model - which is what any large MMORPG dev team will select every time. These games are not cheap to make.

 

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1545

5/22/13 10:56:14 PM#18

hybrid's fine so long as i have an option to pay a fee of RL cash and bypass silly item mall shenanigans.

 

i like lotro and ddo and eq2; they're all hybrids.

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

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Henry Rollins

  Siphaed

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/08
Posts: 779

5/22/13 11:00:23 PM#19

Hmmm,  Hybrid = Buy2Play?   I mean, that's exactly what B2P is: a mix between the subscription game's "buy a box" and a free games "we've got stuff in shops to buy for cash".    That's what GW2, GW1, and now TSW all are.  Why shouldn't this game be like those? I'd find it very useful for both player and developer. 

 

See, the developer/publisher see a significant investment return on the release when players = boxes sold = covers development costs.  After such, the cash shop -consisting of things like name changes, extra character slots, expanded bank slots, unique mount skins, and so on- will pay for continued development and content updates for the game.  It's win/win for both sides of the game (player and developer).

  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 583

5/22/13 11:10:45 PM#20
Originally posted by DMKano
 

Significantly better is a lot harder to achieve in a saturated market as it is right now - so what WoW did in 2004 is a LOT more difficult to do now in 2013 (it is almost a decade later after all, the gamers are different, the market is different) and it will be even harder to do in the future. There is more competition, and vast majority of it is F2P, and we're talking well developed games with a lot of content and polish.

A new P2P game is simply out of step with the current gamer trend, and that most players are getting used to, not to mention that F2P is a more profitable model - which is what any large MMORPG dev team will select every time. These games are not cheap to make.

 

I have more faith in developers than that.  I do think you can make a game that blows people away and will be significantly better.  Maybe technology is not ready for it who knows.  What makes something great is if they ahead of its time in terms of a comparison.  Would Wilt Chamberlain be as good in the NBA today as he was decades ago?  No.  But that comparison is stupid to make because what made Wilt great was that he was ahead of his competitors.  This same thing can be applied to gaming.  WoW was ahead of its time compared to its competition, it would have been successful if it was F2P or P2P.

 

Games don't fail because of their business model.  We have seen many F2P and B2P MMOs fail.  There are recent examples like Defiance.  A great game can succeed regardless of its payment model.  Be it F2P, B2P or P2P.  I don't think the P2P model is dead, but it will be harder to justify.  We are programmed with subscriptions with everything we do in our daily lives.

 

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