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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » So where are MMOs heading...

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35 posts found
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

5/21/13 6:59:51 PM#21
Originally posted by ZombieKen 

But the MMO audience might be.  I think we're seeing both a fusion and diversification of game genres.  Some MMOs are sort of FPS (or TPS) games with a bit of RPG tacked on.  For them reticle aiming (or direction facing aiming in TPS) could be very much inline with player expectations. 

I don't really think there is much of an "MMO audience".  There are very few traits of a game which are solely attained by being MMO, which can't be attained by a non-MMO version of the same game.  There are many types of non-MMOs where just making an MMO version of them would utterly destroy the gameplay.

When there is a clear advantage (epic battles in Planetside 1) then it works.  But without a clear reason, making a game an MMO just becomes a cost which fails to justify itself.

But yes, there are obviously many FPS and action gamers who want a fun game, and if it happens to be MMO (and that adds to the experience) then they'll play it.  But those players aren't chasing MMOs specifically, so calling them "the MMO audience" is a little misleading.

  ozmono

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

5/21/13 8:46:56 PM#22
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

 

 

world design

with Gw2 adding dynamic events this will certainly get a lot of following, if you combine that with the fully voicd stories of TSW  and SWTOR youll have the best of 2 worlds.  But then there is stil the old mmo trap of players devouring content faster then developers will ever be able to create it. The answr however has been found by letting players create their own content (neverwinter eq2)  tough this will allways be an addon with a dubgeoncrawler feeling.

people are also expecting that the world feels alive and that NPCs react to the actions of he PCs.  GW2 is a good example of what to expect.

anther trend in world design is sepperating PvE and PvP.  There will e instanced PvP and world PvP in seperate zones. They really should add more PvE goals and rewards to challenge people to go and PvE in these openworld PvP zones... Double XP in these zone for PvE rewards should help mixing PvE and PvPactions.

When you start talking about world design (which I think is a pretty broad thing) and talking about pve and players devouring content I hope you have no idea where MMO's are heading. As far as I am concerned it's the wrong way of looking at it. Players providing content for each other just by playing the game (not via some foundry or anything like that) is where I hope it will go. Faction wars, politics, deeper economies etc, all potentially provide content that will never be able to be completely devoured.

 

I'm not saying dynamic events or quality NPC interactions via good AI or voiceacting or whatever isn't important to me at all but I am saying that I hope by focusing on such things you will be proven to be way off base. I hope worlds are designed with the intent of players providing content for each other first. Ofcourse, what I hope and what will happen might be two different things.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3101

I am more than some of my parts

5/21/13 9:33:37 PM#23
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

[...] GW2 showed us that the trinnity isnt such a bad mechanic, and actually works well when you want to give the payers mechancs to think out new stategies... [...]

 Trinity just doesn't work in PvP. As a result, it creates a disparity between PvE and PvP builds which in turn will lead to "wolves hunting the sheep" metagame. So it really doesn't work in open world PvP either. And as the trinity itself is a strategy, finding strategies within the holy trinity is still trinity. You feel me?

By no means does trinity inspire creativity. It does the exact opposite. Just read a few comments on these forums and you'll see how engrained people are on the thought that "trinity is the only way to go and everything else is just chaos and zerg".

And yes, we should look down on these people, because most of them are willfully ignorant.

+1

Straight, to the point and honest. Well said. 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8875

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  5/22/13 1:48:01 AM#24
Originally posted by ozmono
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

 

 

world design

with Gw2 adding dynamic events this will certainly get a lot of following, if you combine that with the fully voicd stories of TSW  and SWTOR youll have the best of 2 worlds.  But then there is stil the old mmo trap of players devouring content faster then developers will ever be able to create it. The answr however has been found by letting players create their own content (neverwinter eq2)  tough this will allways be an addon with a dubgeoncrawler feeling.

people are also expecting that the world feels alive and that NPCs react to the actions of he PCs.  GW2 is a good example of what to expect.

anther trend in world design is sepperating PvE and PvP.  There will e instanced PvP and world PvP in seperate zones. They really should add more PvE goals and rewards to challenge people to go and PvE in these openworld PvP zones... Double XP in these zone for PvE rewards should help mixing PvE and PvPactions.

When you start talking about world design (which I think is a pretty broad thing) and talking about pve and players devouring content I hope you have no idea where MMO's are heading. As far as I am concerned it's the wrong way of looking at it. Players providing content for each other just by playing the game (not via some foundry or anything like that) is where I hope it will go. Faction wars, politics, deeper economies etc, all potentially provide content that will never be able to be completely devoured.

 

I'm not saying dynamic events or quality NPC interactions via good AI or voiceacting or whatever isn't important to me at all but I am saying that I hope by focusing on such things you will be proven to be way off base. I hope worlds are designed with the intent of players providing content for each other first. Ofcourse, what I hope and what will happen might be two different things.

I dont think games are heading towards more sandboxy setups, because the broad majorrity of people want to be entertained instead of actively entertaining themselves.  

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  ozmono

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

5/22/13 2:38:37 AM#25
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by ozmono
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

 

 

world design

with Gw2 adding dynamic events this will certainly get a lot of following, if you combine that with the fully voicd stories of TSW  and SWTOR youll have the best of 2 worlds.  But then there is stil the old mmo trap of players devouring content faster then developers will ever be able to create it. The answr however has been found by letting players create their own content (neverwinter eq2)  tough this will allways be an addon with a dubgeoncrawler feeling.

people are also expecting that the world feels alive and that NPCs react to the actions of he PCs.  GW2 is a good example of what to expect.

anther trend in world design is sepperating PvE and PvP.  There will e instanced PvP and world PvP in seperate zones. They really should add more PvE goals and rewards to challenge people to go and PvE in these openworld PvP zones... Double XP in these zone for PvE rewards should help mixing PvE and PvPactions.

When you start talking about world design (which I think is a pretty broad thing) and talking about pve and players devouring content I hope you have no idea where MMO's are heading. As far as I am concerned it's the wrong way of looking at it. Players providing content for each other just by playing the game (not via some foundry or anything like that) is where I hope it will go. Faction wars, politics, deeper economies etc, all potentially provide content that will never be able to be completely devoured.

 

I'm not saying dynamic events or quality NPC interactions via good AI or voiceacting or whatever isn't important to me at all but I am saying that I hope by focusing on such things you will be proven to be way off base. I hope worlds are designed with the intent of players providing content for each other first. Ofcourse, what I hope and what will happen might be two different things.

I dont think games are heading towards more sandboxy setups, because the broad majorrity of people want to be entertained instead of actively entertaining themselves.  

Again, what I hope and what will happen might be two different things. That said I personally am not entertained easier in themepark games so I fail to get your point. I was talking about players entertaining each other, not themselves. If I was the type of person who played MMO's to entertain myself I'd play some themepark game like SWTOR and would have different hopes for the future.

  nethervoid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 531

5/22/13 1:14:55 PM#26
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

To be honest MMOs are gradually heading toward a COD style game, which means they're fusing with lobby games. Which means they're basically going to become a thing of the past if this keeps up.

Hell Neverwinter has more in common with D3 than it does UO, SWG, or EVE.

Yeah .. and i would count that as a positive.

How is this a positive? You want all MMOs to disappear? MMOs used to be about epic achievements in a world you could actually impact and see a physical affect on. If you don't like that then don't play them.

nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20565

5/22/13 1:52:37 PM#27
Originally posted by nethervoid
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

To be honest MMOs are gradually heading toward a COD style game, which means they're fusing with lobby games. Which means they're basically going to become a thing of the past if this keeps up.

Hell Neverwinter has more in common with D3 than it does UO, SWG, or EVE.

Yeah .. and i would count that as a positive.

How is this a positive? You want all MMOs to disappear? MMOs used to be about epic achievements in a world you could actually impact and see a physical affect on. If you don't like that then don't play them.

No. I want new fun games. D3 is a fun game to me. NWO is also fun .... particularly because of the ARPG elements. So of course it is a positive.

And how is one game going the direction of D3 means that MMO is disappearing?

Oh, of course i don't play games i don't like. MMOs are about queuing up dungeons, and raids, and arenas now. Did you get the memo?

 

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

5/22/13 2:05:53 PM#28
Originally posted by ozmono
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
 

When you start talking about world design (which I think is a pretty broad thing) and talking about pve and players devouring content I hope you have no idea where MMO's are heading. As far as I am concerned it's the wrong way of looking at it. Players providing content for each other just by playing the game (not via some foundry or anything like that) is where I hope it will go. Faction wars, politics, deeper economies etc, all potentially provide content that will never be able to be completely devoured.

 

I'm not saying dynamic events or quality NPC interactions via good AI or voiceacting or whatever isn't important to me at all but I am saying that I hope by focusing on such things you will be proven to be way off base. I hope worlds are designed with the intent of players providing content for each other first. Ofcourse, what I hope and what will happen might be two different things.

If you expect players to provide content for themselves you first need to have a solid game first. Something these "world oriented" MMOs have always struggled with without exception. For example, no player is going to fight any wars if combat is not fun.

Ironically, combat tends to be far more entertaining in MMOs which do not focus on "the world" as much.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  nethervoid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 531

5/22/13 3:00:02 PM#29
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

To be honest MMOs are gradually heading toward a COD style game, which means they're fusing with lobby games. Which means they're basically going to become a thing of the past if this keeps up.

Hell Neverwinter has more in common with D3 than it does UO, SWG, or EVE.

Yeah .. and i would count that as a positive.

How is this a positive? You want all MMOs to disappear? MMOs used to be about epic achievements in a world you could actually impact and see a physical affect on. If you don't like that then don't play them.

No. I want new fun games. D3 is a fun game to me. NWO is also fun .... particularly because of the ARPG elements. So of course it is a positive.

And how is one game going the direction of D3 means that MMO is disappearing?

Oh, of course i don't play games i don't like. MMOs are about queuing up dungeons, and raids, and arenas now. Did you get the memo?

 

Because when MMOs move toward lobby games MMOs disapear. Then all we have left are lobby games. The two are merging but the lobby game is not picking up any traditional MMO elements.

Who is to blame? Mainly the industry for doing a money grab with the larger COD market. And now secondly the people who have come from lobby games want to further dilute MMOs to be more like lobbies.

nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/22/13 3:48:42 PM#30


Originally posted by nethervoid

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by nethervoid

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by nethervoid To be honest MMOs are gradually heading toward a COD style game, which means they're fusing with lobby games. Which means they're basically going to become a thing of the past if this keeps up. Hell Neverwinter has more in common with D3 than it does UO, SWG, or EVE.
Yeah .. and i would count that as a positive.
How is this a positive? You want all MMOs to disappear? MMOs used to be about epic achievements in a world you could actually impact and see a physical affect on. If you don't like that then don't play them.
No. I want new fun games. D3 is a fun game to me. NWO is also fun .... particularly because of the ARPG elements. So of course it is a positive. And how is one game going the direction of D3 means that MMO is disappearing? Oh, of course i don't play games i don't like. MMOs are about queuing up dungeons, and raids, and arenas now. Did you get the memo?  
Because when MMOs move toward lobby games MMOs disapear. Then all we have left are lobby games. The two are merging but the lobby game is not picking up any traditional MMO elements.

Who is to blame? Mainly the industry for doing a money grab with the larger COD market. And now secondly the people who have come from lobby games want to further dilute MMOs to be more like lobbies.




That's the same faulty logic that leads to thinking that blonds or redheads are dying out. Blonds are not going to disappear, and neither are red heads. MMOs will not disappear.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20565

5/22/13 3:57:32 PM#31
Originally posted by nethervoid
 

Because when MMOs move toward lobby games MMOs disapear. Then all we have left are lobby games. The two are merging but the lobby game is not picking up any traditional MMO elements.

Who is to blame? Mainly the industry for doing a money grab with the larger COD market. And now secondly the people who have come from lobby games want to further dilute MMOs to be more like lobbies.

"blame"? You blame companies to fill a demand? You blame people playing games the way they want? They are doing exactly what they are supposed to in a free market.

Why would lobby games be picking up traditional MMO elements? Do these elements make the game more fun for most of the players?

I don't think there is anything to blame here. No one says traditional MMO needs to survive in the market place. It is survival of the financially fittest.

 

 

  Greyface

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/04
Posts: 388

5/22/13 4:31:15 PM#32

Like everything else, MMOs are fragmenting.

WoW is bleeding subscribers with no heir apparent.  The initial failure of SWToR (and TSW to a lesser extent) is already scaring publishers away from big budget subscription themeparks.  If TESO flops, it'll be the last nail in that particular coffin  I think you'll see this genre go in three different directions: 

1. Big-budget, lobby-based action games that owe more to Diablo than EQ.  I expect these games to largely be b2p with micro-transactions, and to move away from PC toward PS4 and Xbox 1.  The next Halo will be an MMO.  

2. F2P games that are actually developed as F2P games, rather than retrofits of failed subscription titles.  Most of it will be shovelware, but not all.  These games will stay on PC because consoles are banned in China.

3. Niche indies. These will stay on PC and will probably keep some version of the subscription model alive.  Crowdfunding, cheap bandwidth, and cloud computing make lower-budget MMOs feasible.  These games will be targeted to very specific groups of players (RPers, PvPers, etc) and won't need 1 million subscribers to survive.  The next EVE will come from this group of games, and a lot of notable flops.

  nethervoid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 531

5/22/13 4:35:02 PM#33
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid
 

Because when MMOs move toward lobby games MMOs disapear. Then all we have left are lobby games. The two are merging but the lobby game is not picking up any traditional MMO elements.

Who is to blame? Mainly the industry for doing a money grab with the larger COD market. And now secondly the people who have come from lobby games want to further dilute MMOs to be more like lobbies.

"blame"? You blame companies to fill a demand? You blame people playing games the way they want? They are doing exactly what they are supposed to in a free market.

Why would lobby games be picking up traditional MMO elements? Do these elements make the game more fun for most of the players?

I don't think there is anything to blame here. No one says traditional MMO needs to survive in the market place. It is survival of the financially fittest.

 

 

I guess my question to you would then be why are you on a site dedicated to MMOs if you like lobby games? Is there no Lobby.com?

nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2257

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

5/22/13 7:53:20 PM#34
Originally posted by Greyface

Like everything else, MMOs are fragmenting.

WoW is bleeding subscribers with no heir apparent.  The initial failure of SWToR (and TSW to a lesser extent) is already scaring publishers away from big budget subscription themeparks.  If TESO flops, it'll be the last nail in that particular coffin  I think you'll see this genre go in three different directions: 

1. Big-budget, lobby-based action games that owe more to Diablo than EQ.  I expect these games to largely be b2p with micro-transactions, and to move away from PC toward PS4 and Xbox 1.  The next Halo will be an MMO.  

2. F2P games that are actually developed as F2P games, rather than retrofits of failed subscription titles.  Most of it will be shovelware, but not all.  These games will stay on PC because consoles are banned in China.

3. Niche indies. These will stay on PC and will probably keep some version of the subscription model alive.  Crowdfunding, cheap bandwidth, and cloud computing make lower-budget MMOs feasible.  These games will be targeted to very specific groups of players (RPers, PvPers, etc) and won't need 1 million subscribers to survive.  The next EVE will come from this group of games, and a lot of notable flops.

I tend to agree with most of this prediction.

I also predict a round of cancellations in the next few years, specifically for games on the margins.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

5/22/13 8:26:43 PM#35

Soon we will all be playing free to play lobby based, MMO's fully integrated with facebook for the social communication aspects of them. Developers will still try to include more "action" or "modern combat" features into their game to be more "innovative" but at the end of the day they will no doubt be dashes for cash where they try to appeal to as wide of an audience as possible and the games will continue to be easy and boring button mashes, with very little content as they're designed for casual audiences.

Id honestly rather play a holy trinity asian grinder than any of the turds that have been pushed out recently.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

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