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General Discussion  » gear score

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68 posts found
  blastermaster

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/07
Posts: 117

5/21/13 7:26:59 AM#41
Originally posted by hMJem

There was GearScore before there was GearScore. It was called inspecting the guy before you invite him to the Raid group. I'm sorry, but if you think GearScore created this new wave of having gear pre-requisites, they already existed by the players themselves. A lot of Raids, gear is 90% the determining factor of your use. You cant have 80% worse gear than a guy and outplay your way to being more useful. This isnt a fighting game, its an MMORPG. Yeah blah blah arenas take skill, but there isnt a games PvE that is difficult mechanically. There isnt "tech skill" like competitive games. You cant outplay your way to make up for a lack of gear when gear often times is the biggest necessity in raids.

 

it saves everyones time. "Fly over here, then I'll inspect you" "Oh, you didnt have good enough gear, sorry, no invite, sorry for ywasting your time!"

 

Yes, but as stated, GS does'nt really take the character's build and play style of the user into account, nor the utilities that he might be bringing to the table.  You could prefer someone with a GS, that is not dressed at all for the role he should be doing.  Inspecting gave the raid leader a chance to know exactly what he was looking at and to better determine roles for everyone based on this. It also brought interesting discussion as to why slot this instead of that,etc.  

But I think it's a debate that can't be won, either side has it's list of pros and cons, and implementation (or not) of the mechanic in a game will always frustrate the opposite side.

As for myself, I don't mind it. It serves it's purpose cause it lets me know "dudes"  who get high on this kind of thing.. They are usually the ones who run raids and instances like they are military operations that are a matter of (real) life and death... Not that there is anything wrong with getting your fun from this, but it's not how/why I play games anymore... well, not since I have a job,a house and a family to care for anyways..

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

5/21/13 5:46:49 PM#42
Originally posted by hMJem

There was GearScore before there was GearScore. It was called inspecting the guy before you invite him to the Raid group. I'm sorry, but if you think GearScore created this new wave of having gear pre-requisites, they already existed by the players themselves. A lot of Raids, gear is 90% the determining factor of your use. You cant have 80% worse gear than a guy and outplay your way to being more useful. This isnt a fighting game, its an MMORPG. Yeah blah blah arenas take skill, but there isnt a games PvE that is difficult mechanically. There isnt "tech skill" like competitive games. You cant outplay your way to make up for a lack of gear when gear often times is the biggest necessity in raids.

 

it saves everyones time. "Fly over here, then I'll inspect you" "Oh, you didnt have good enough gear, sorry, no invite, sorry for ywasting your time!"

Semantics.  Good leaders didn't need it.  It caters to the lazy and ezmode players which we have had way too much of imo.  Perhaps the old school raid leaders have been trained to be lazy and ezmode now?

  Thresh

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 58

5/21/13 8:53:49 PM#43
Use moderns science of statistics kids. Suppose you want to fillout a dps spot. you have 2 choices.  A guy who barely hit 60 full of green gear or someone who has played the game a year longer and has epic gear. Sure thing, it might end with that green guy is extremely skilled and purple guy is total newb. But would you bet that one out randomly selected guys with green gear is any better or worse than out of randomly selected purple gear guys ? I guarantee you if you average 10 out 100 selected green gear guys will be far less effected then average of 10 out 100 selected purple gear guys, even though there might be some exceptions here and there. As a raid leader who only faces with the decision to select a random from green or purple area, which one you would select ?
  Demalis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/13
Posts: 134

5/21/13 9:21:43 PM#44

Ok I don't really mind the gear score. There are a tonne of different ways to check if a player is ready for the raid, the gear score is just one of them. If you think you can sneak your way into a good raid group, with no gear score(the proper lvl amount) you are wrong. But if perchance you do think you have deceived  your way into such a group, thanks for the laugh. Btw I have hosted raids, always pug on an alt, and just for kicks.  When I have six different tells from players in the raid, saying I am making a mistake, I usually side with them.

However, if the player is close enough, after I inspect them I will side with the noob. I had a real hard time when I first started raiding, and it was a turn off to never be good enough, elitism is not healthy for a community. On the flip side, hardcore raiding is done in a guild not in pugs.

  Djildjamesh

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 405

5/22/13 3:06:22 AM#45
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Yaevindusk

Though this is just if you are thinking of the overall health of the game and not just the convenience of the less than .10% (the recruiters) who will be working hard finding members anyway.  

If i am not mistaken. Raids in Wildstar are for most hc raiders and not for everyone like in wow ;) And GS usually was not the problem for them. It was usually problem for avarage/casual players.

+ I think you didnt play pre GS wow when you say thats the reason for what wow is today. Gs was there from release, players had to do the job instead and inspect others more ... thats all

uh, no mate.

I am against any form of Gearscore myself basicly because gearscore is a dumb man's way of inspecting players. All Gearscore does is rate someones gear on ilvl's  and gems (at least it does in WoW). What happened as a result was that people started wearing PvP gear in PvE and gem them with the cheapest gems on the market to cheat the system and to get a higher gearscore rating. Someone that geared the way he should be geared might have allot less gearscore BUT will put out higher DPS.  I played WoW when there were almost no addons and i must say DBM (deadly boss mods) KTM/threadmeters, DPS meters and ESPECIALLLY gearscore ruined allot of the fun for me.... and yes i did raid the high end raids in multiple expansions.  So uhm ... yes im against :)

  Studdley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/04
Posts: 38

5/22/13 4:42:22 PM#46
Hmmm... Maybe they will end up going to your house and seeing what trophies are hanging on your walls.
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

5/22/13 4:46:34 PM#47
Gear score, a great way to create a community full of douche bags.
  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 431

5/22/13 4:52:27 PM#48
Gear score: For the incompetent raid leader who is so bad as to need a crutch.
  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3274

5/22/13 5:14:10 PM#49
Before gear score players who are new to raids got a foot in the door, and we're usually supported by the raid when they realised the player was struggling. Now we have Gs/must hav achievement and no supportive team play, another nail in the coffin.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Bama1267

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/04
Posts: 1880

5/22/13 6:10:42 PM#50
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Before gear score players who are new to raids got a foot in the door, and we're usually supported by the raid when they realised the player was struggling. Now we have Gs/must hav achievement and no supportive team play, another nail in the coffin.

 Before gear score, they noticed you were struggling ... checked your gear and kicked you out. Honestly the only thing GS does is take out the middle man  looking for poorly geared players. The only thing not having GS would do ... is hopefully have a lazy raid leader and hes not checking gear ... or the gear is so close he cant tell. In most cases If it was close they at least gave it a go. For players who play above their gear ... it's probably a plus not to have it. Myself, i really don't care.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4590

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/22/13 6:16:32 PM#51
Originally posted by Panzerbase
Gear score: For the incompetent raid leader who is so bad as to need a crutch.

mhmmm.

 

funny. newbies are afraid of gearscore, yet they don't think of newbie raid leaders...

 

but then again I see it all the time from today's players.

 

"me and the other million casuals like me  bla bla bla" like he gives a crap about the others like him. He's using them to backup his point out of self-interest only. As soon as he's in game with them he's doing what the average looking-for-group player does with his teammates.

 

If you don't like gearscore you can choose not to look at it, you can lead your own groups however you choose. Let other people do the same.

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1045

5/24/13 3:47:32 PM#52

I hope not, that will certainly drive me a way from this game. I like the videos, they realize and say only 1 percent of the audience cares about Raids, but they want to make everyone happy.  Awesome, but I don't want my experience outside of raids effected by a gear grind, which it sounds like the game was stearing away from, especially with the ability to make your own dungeon like areas. 

Instead, I'd rather have stats. How about just showing a stat that says "dungeon prowess", if you want to exclude people ;).  Have this stat be some type of calculation of how many dungeons you've done, how fast you've done them and if you've beat certain ones, what stage (raids as well). This is a far better indication than just telling me some guy grinded for 80 hours.  

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1045

5/24/13 3:49:37 PM#53
Originally posted by dontadow

I hope not, that will certainly drive me a way from this game. I like the videos, they realize and say only 1 percent of the audience cares about Raids, but they want to make everyone happy.  Awesome, but I don't want my experience outside of raids effected by a gear grind, which it sounds like the game was stearing away from, especially with the ability to make your own dungeon like areas. 

Instead, I'd rather have stats. How about just showing a stat that says "dungeon prowess", if you want to exclude people ;).  Have this stat be some type of calculation of how many dungeons you've done, how fast you've done them and if you've beat certain ones, what stage (raids as well). This is a far better indication than just telling me some guy grinded for 80 hours.  

Heck, I"d like this for myself. I prefer to go into dungeons with people who are new, so you don't get the "formulaic do this do that boring " dungeon experience. I like dungeons to feel like a single player rpg, mysterious and fun, not a 2 hour shift at work. 

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1605

5/24/13 3:58:41 PM#54

I am not to sure it will matter.  EQ2 and TSW don't have gear scores but they do have parses so instead of advertising or asking for a gear score people ask for a dps number instead.

TSW and NW are really bad with that.  Every LFG message I see in those games has a number next to it and most of the LFM tends to as well.

I don't like PUG's so really don't care much myself.  I would rather solo than do a average pug group and would rather do a group with people I know all with scores of 1 over a Pickup group with a bunch of 10000's.  Some of the highest scoring players I have ever ran into are also some of the worst at simple things like getting out of the AOE's, positioning, agro control, ninga afks, and random room pulling.

The interesting thing about Wildstar is they are talking like the bosses are going to change everytime you do them.  The general feel for the boss with always be the same but the specifics will change everytime you fight them.  If they actually manage to pull that off people who play the game well and pay attention to the mechanics will be much more valuable than someone who just burns hard and ignores everything that goes on around them like most gear score/parse obsessed people do.

  Noleader

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/03
Posts: 6

1/13/14 12:51:16 PM#55

Having led raids in WoW for a few years I can say without doubt that GS serves a good purpose but raid wide meters do the opposite.  I can't even count the number of times raids wiped because people, healers and DPS, both fought to be on the top of the meters.  They ignore the whole fight just so they don't have to stop nuking/attacking something and lose their DPS/HPS score,

I would much prefer if they added meters/GS but only exposed them for the raid leader.  Give the raid leader the tools to form an effective group but hide it from the minions so it does not promote bad behavior.  As far as those who think gear scores promote elitist exclusion to lower geared people: It happens in some pugs were the raid leader wants to be carried though the content without working but as a whole most raid leaders will take people who are 'just' geared for the content.  So long as I saw people put forth the effort to get prepared for raiding (and played well once we started raiding) I would invite them along and even offer them a chance to join me next time I ran a raid.

 

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3274

1/13/14 12:56:58 PM#56
You see the irony right?

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Noleader

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/03
Posts: 6

1/13/14 1:11:48 PM#57

What irony?  What people will abuse tools if they are given those tools?

 

Human nature ensures that happens...  The key is trying to strike a balance between usefulness while limiting the negative effect of the tool.

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1606

1/13/14 1:16:35 PM#58
Originally posted by Robokapp

being afriad of gearscore is silly.

 

getting kicked after first boss and being saved to the lockout is infinitely worse.

 


 

 

"Hello, do you want to join my raid?  Ow wait, I don't like your shoes, they are cheap and not good, get out."

Best way to judge a game is by it's community, and what better way then to kick people out of content before even starting it?

GG GG GG.

And people wonder why MMO communties have gone downhill so fast.....please stick to WoW, don't need that attitude "memememememememe" to spread to other mmos.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Psion33

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/13
Posts: 257

1/13/14 1:25:53 PM#59

I hope for some sort of gear score. We don't want some entitlement kid running through getting end game gear on day one of his account. Slap his hand. No more handouts.

 

A gear score will at least keep things in check for a while.

  intrinsc

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/12
Posts: 90

Trust, but verify.

1/13/14 1:29:35 PM#60
That's the thing. Players will associated gear power with player skill. It's bound to happen and unavoidable.
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