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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » No World PvP? No Thanks...

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167 posts found
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

5/22/13 12:37:38 PM#41
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by ezduzit

I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

 

The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers. 

Define "hardcore" because I do not think what you call hardcore is actually hardcore but rather normal PVP. Designated PVP spots is just esport crap.

People who play MMOs to live, eat and breath PvP, like me. If a MMO does not have a great PvP system in play its a stop over at best till something comes out that does. In my 14 years of MMOing, no one has done PvP better then DAoC. PvP thats set up for more then a leader board. PvP that has a deep impact and meaning to your faction. Thats the hard core PvPer I am talking about!!!!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/22/13 12:38:55 PM#42
Das
Matt frior said in some video "no arena, no battlegrounds, we want pvpers to focus on cyrodil" , also some stuff about it being pointless as there's a stack of mmos, mobas, arena games like smite etc.. doing the same thing. With ava they have less competition, just gw2 and ps2 (and cu in a few years)
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

5/22/13 12:39:14 PM#43
Originally posted by DAS1337

WoW did it.  Everyone seems to like how they managed their PvP.   

Actually we don't. I played in the Emerald Dream WOW RP/PVP server for many years... and I played DAoC before that for several years too. WOW open world PvP was a POS gankfest that consisted of max level stealthers ganking low-level "carebears" at quest hubs...sort of like a duel when only one of you knew you were dueling.

It was really rare to find anything other than one vs. one ganking... even in the "glorious" vanilla WOW days. It went downhill from there. About the only organized group PvP that exists now is the weekly raid to go kill the boss of the opposing cities and get your reward mount. And people trying to organize that usually have to spam the trade channel for an hour or more to get enough people that don't already have the mount and want to do it.

WOW open world PvP was to DAoC RvR like masturbation is to real sex. Mind you, some people do seem to prefer the former. I think the Brits have a term for that.

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2977

5/22/13 12:40:18 PM#44
Originally posted by AZHokie54

Good!

I'm sick and tired of great games getting ruined by trying to balance around PvP. 

 

 

 

Totally agree with you. I'm still hurt that my Bright Wizard was destroyed in Warhammer lol, j/k :-)

There Is Always Hope!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/22/13 12:43:52 PM#45
Nan
I like daoc & both planetsides

But its not the most hardcore pvp style ive played, that would be eve & perpetuum.

And then stuff like DF is even more hardcore than that.

These people who think vanilla wow pvp servers were the hardest of hardcore though. Well its amusing. It's like your 10 year old nephew thinking he's a gangsta rapper or something.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

5/22/13 12:47:30 PM#46
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Nan
I like daoc & both planetsides

But its not the most hardcore pvp style ive played, that would be eve & perpetuum.

And then stuff like DF is even more hardcore than that.

These people who think vanilla wow pvp servers were the hardest of hardcore though. Well its amusing. It's like your 10 year old nephew thinking he's a gangsta rapper or something.

That was so good it deserves a picture:

 

I think the fat kid is also part Vulcan.

  eiekal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 20

5/22/13 12:48:59 PM#47

ShakyMo, I think I'm not alone in having to make comprimises.  Perhaps there is something in this game you'd rather not have but still you decide to play it because it's the best choice available to you that you've found?

I love pvp formost and often dont pve in games where I dont need to.  I've leveled through pvp in games (rift, SWTOR) that allowed me to do so without pve.  Warhammer:wrath of heroes had some good things about it.  It was only pvp.  It had collision detection.  It rewarded positional attacks when wearing a certain rune. IT WAS ALSO FREE =D

As I posted earlier, collision detection and positional attacks are important to me.

You're right in that I've made comprimises and I've played games that dont have full loot which I call carebear.  If I made zero compromises in what I want in a pvp game, I'd be playing nothing :(

Don't you cast that "no comprimise" first stone just because you found a game that gives you everything you want. You lucky dog, you.  I hate you! =D

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

5/22/13 12:50:32 PM#48
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by david361107

Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

 

Peace

Lascer

Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.

You believe this because you look at MMO's differently than I do.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I believe in a world that can immerse you.  A world you can live in, make friends, build homes, and take pride in.  To do these things for me, a game has to have the right systems to make sense.  

 

It's clear that you are less of a RPG'er, and more of a gamer.  You care less for immersion and things that make sense.  You focus more on what systems make the best game, rather than the best immersive world.  

 

You want to know the biggest difference between us?  My preferred game will keep me happy for five years +.  Yours will keep you happen for a year if you are lucky.  

 

There are ways to compromise, to make mostly everyone happy and also makes sense to the IP.  I'm the type of person who searches for those things, you are not.  

 

And I've only once, in my 20 years of gaming been flagged for PvP when I didn't want to be.  That was my fault as I was macro'ing AFK while sleeping.  Something I have no interest in doing again.  You could never make me flag if I didn't want to.  I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself.  

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

5/22/13 12:54:50 PM#49

Just because a game features RvR (or in TESO's vernacular AvA) doesn't make it any less an open world PvP game.

 

There are several defintions.

Open World (features anywhere and zoned) either all the time or flagging

Instanced (relegated to queuing for closed battlegrounds)

 

TESO's PvP occurs in the world, just not in the whole world therefor it still remains World PvP, but because PvP is consentual without flagging it limits the activity to certain zones. 

 

SUP

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

5/22/13 12:56:01 PM#50
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by DAS1337

WoW did it.  Everyone seems to like how they managed their PvP.   

Actually we don't. I played in the Emerald Dream WOW RP/PVP server for many years... and I played DAoC before that for several years too. WOW open world PvP was a POS gankfest that consisted of max level stealthers ganking low-level "carebears" at quest hubs...sort of like a duel when only one of you knew you were dueling.

It was really rare to find anything other than one vs. one ganking... even in the "glorious" vanilla WOW days. It went downhill from there. About the only organized group PvP that exists now is the weekly raid to go kill the boss of the opposing cities and get your reward mount. And people trying to organize that usually have to spam the trade channel for an hour or more to get enough people that don't already have the mount and want to do it.

WOW open world PvP was to DAoC RvR like masturbation is to real sex. Mind you, some people do seem to prefer the former. I think the Brits have a term for that.

 

Then leave the area, as there were several areas for you to level in.  One of the best things Blizzard did with their world was creating multiple areas to level in.  They protected the possibility to gank by allowing those players to level in multiple areas.  I've never had a problem with this.  Either I went to another area or I left for ten minutes, as they were always gone when I returned.

 

I used my rogue to gank groups of two, thee and four on a regular basis.  I didn't do it for the sake of it, as I was protecting my mob spawn.  So while some people did it to feel strong by killing lower level people, I did it to feel strong by killing multiple people with a comparable level to my own.

 

Though I get it, most people aren't like me.  

 

Ultimately, I was talking about their flagging system, not their open world PvP.  Which you would have known if you actually read my post instead of taking one simple line out of context.  Though, also, most people don't know how to read either.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

5/22/13 12:56:03 PM#51
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by david361107

Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

 

Peace

Lascer

Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.

You believe this because you look at MMO's differently than I do.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I believe in a world that can immerse you.  A world you can live in, make friends, build homes, and take pride in.  To do these things for me, a game has to have the right systems to make sense.  

 

It's clear that you are less of a RPG'er, and more of a gamer.  You care less for immersion and things that make sense.  You focus more on what systems make the best game, rather than the best immersive world.  

 

You want to know the biggest difference between us?  My preferred game will keep me happy for five years +.  Yours will keep you happen for a year if you are lucky.  

 

There are ways to compromise, to make mostly everyone happy and also makes sense to the IP.  I'm the type of person who searches for those things, you are not.  

 

And I've only once, in my 20 years of gaming been flagged for PvP when I didn't want to be.  That was my fault as I was macro'ing AFK while sleeping.  Something I have no interest in doing again.  You could never make me flag if I didn't want to.  I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself.  

Umm...lovely. That's certainly RPish, immersive and not gamey. 

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

5/22/13 1:05:32 PM#52
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by david361107

Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

 

Peace

Lascer

Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.

You believe this because you look at MMO's differently than I do.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I believe in a world that can immerse you.  A world you can live in, make friends, build homes, and take pride in.  To do these things for me, a game has to have the right systems to make sense.  

 

It's clear that you are less of a RPG'er, and more of a gamer.  You care less for immersion and things that make sense.  You focus more on what systems make the best game, rather than the best immersive world.  

 

You want to know the biggest difference between us?  My preferred game will keep me happy for five years +.  Yours will keep you happen for a year if you are lucky.  

 

There are ways to compromise, to make mostly everyone happy and also makes sense to the IP.  I'm the type of person who searches for those things, you are not.  

 

And I've only once, in my 20 years of gaming been flagged for PvP when I didn't want to be.  That was my fault as I was macro'ing AFK while sleeping.  Something I have no interest in doing again.  You could never make me flag if I didn't want to.  I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself.  

Umm...lovely. That's certainly RPish, immersive and not gamey. 

That happened in Ultima Online.  My first MMO.  I was, I'd say, somewhere around 14 years old at the time.  I certainly didn't know what kind of game I wanted or what kind of gamer I was at that point.  I haven't done anything of the sort since then.  I stopped playing after about 5 years, so it's been well over a decade since.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

5/22/13 1:09:08 PM#53

I love how so many of you are ignoring the success of DAOC, or maybe you never played it.

So many games have tried to recreate the RvR, and it looks like TESO might pull it off.

I cant wait!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

5/22/13 1:09:42 PM#54
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by david361107

Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

 

Peace

Lascer

Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.

You believe this because you look at MMO's differently than I do.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I believe in a world that can immerse you.  A world you can live in, make friends, build homes, and take pride in.  To do these things for me, a game has to have the right systems to make sense.  

 

It's clear that you are less of a RPG'er, and more of a gamer.  You care less for immersion and things that make sense.  You focus more on what systems make the best game, rather than the best immersive world.  

 

You want to know the biggest difference between us?  My preferred game will keep me happy for five years +.  Yours will keep you happen for a year if you are lucky.  

 

There are ways to compromise, to make mostly everyone happy and also makes sense to the IP.  I'm the type of person who searches for those things, you are not.  

 

And I've only once, in my 20 years of gaming been flagged for PvP when I didn't want to be.  That was my fault as I was macro'ing AFK while sleeping.  Something I have no interest in doing again.  You could never make me flag if I didn't want to.  I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself.  

So far off the mark. I started with PnP and got into games like EQ1 to RP and the gamer in me loved it as well. WoW style PvP is not my style. I like to be able to see that my PvP impacts the game and thats what ESO is heading for. Sure PvP happens only on one massive map, so big it will feel like open world. You have dungeons to fight over that will control who gets the best loot in their mega-dungeon (much like DAoC Darkness falls) but there is quest hubs to fight over and the main City itself. You need to not just control keeps and castles but also the resources around them. ESO AvA PvP is much deeper then most games PvP system. If its 75% of what DAoC was... it will be the best PvP game on the market now. If only EA had not bought out Mythic and hacked apart that company, I would still be playing DAoC today.

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

5/22/13 1:09:43 PM#55

Please read up on the facts before posting nonsense like this.... 1/4 th of the open world is PvP...  with the asumed size of TESO being twice the size of any previously released MMO (at release) you can asume the PvP areas to be huge... you´ll never have to leave them.

 

The only thing that we dont have in TESO is a full world of  ffa PvP... and ganking in every possible corner that comes with such settings.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  flizzer

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1217

5/22/13 1:11:36 PM#56
Open world full loot PvP would be epic fail for this game.  No world PvP is the only way to try for a hugely popular game in 2013.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/22/13 1:14:51 PM#57
I already have games that pretty much cover what I want.

I'm currently playing ps2, which is very nearly right for pvp. Just needs a bit more strategy like ps1 and daoc, but its heading in the right direction.

Then I'm also thinking about going back to eve again. Which is fantastic for pvp and crafting.

Then there's cu in a few years which should be good for pvp and crafting.

The only thing in not fond of in current mmos is the pve. I could really do with a game with early EQ / daoc style pve OR ac style pve. Currently I play single player and coop games for pve as they do pve so much better than post wow mmos.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

5/22/13 1:15:06 PM#58
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by david361107

Don't really understand why this is so hard. All they need to do is keep the open area for PVP and in the non PVP area's just allow us to tag ourselves or not, this would make everyone happy.

 

Peace

Lascer

Flagging system does not make pure PvPers happy, as it easy to force someone to flag. 14 odd years of MMOing and I have seem more tricks then I can count on how to force someone to flag for PvP when they dont want to. Current system gives a place PvEers can do their thing and a huge map its so big it will feel like open world PvP for the PvPers. Dungeons, quests and PvP objectives. Its the best of both worlds.

You believe this because you look at MMO's differently than I do.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I believe in a world that can immerse you.  A world you can live in, make friends, build homes, and take pride in.  To do these things for me, a game has to have the right systems to make sense.  

 

It's clear that you are less of a RPG'er, and more of a gamer.  You care less for immersion and things that make sense.  You focus more on what systems make the best game, rather than the best immersive world.  

 

You want to know the biggest difference between us?  My preferred game will keep me happy for five years +.  Yours will keep you happen for a year if you are lucky.  

 

There are ways to compromise, to make mostly everyone happy and also makes sense to the IP.  I'm the type of person who searches for those things, you are not.  

 

And I've only once, in my 20 years of gaming been flagged for PvP when I didn't want to be.  That was my fault as I was macro'ing AFK while sleeping.  Something I have no interest in doing again.  You could never make me flag if I didn't want to.  I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself.  

Umm...lovely. That's certainly RPish, immersive and not gamey. 

That happened in Ultima Online.  My first MMO.  I was, I'd say, somewhere around 14 years old at the time.  I certainly didn't know what kind of game I wanted or what kind of gamer I was at that point.  I haven't done anything of the sort since then.  I stopped playing after about 5 years, so it's been well over a decade since.

No worries, I wasn't judging. We all did crazy shit. I certainly did my fair share of it in Asheron's Call (life drain through a wall, where are you now?) I just found it amusing that you would mention that when emphasizing the differences between you being more into realism and immersion and Nan being a gamer.

  eiekal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 20

5/22/13 1:16:21 PM#59

They could strive to make a full proof flag system that wouldn't flag you with tricks.  I dont know, maybe things like you can't heal a player that's engaged in pvp unless you flag yourself or area damage wont damage another player that's flagged unless youre flagged yourself.  That sort of thing.

 

I'm not sure that a flag system is what I'd personally want but perhaps it could work for others.

 

Daoc was fun during that time but shadowbane came out when Daoc was going strong and I moved to that and it was way more fun for me personally.  I can't tell you what fun I had as a thief stealing from others in that game.  Great entertainment value

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

5/22/13 1:18:47 PM#60
Originally posted by flizzer
Open world full loot PvP would be epic fail for this game.  No world PvP is the only way to try for a hugely popular game in 2013.

No its not. Not everyone likes open world PvP. My wife and I play together and as much as I love PvP at almost any moment my wife hates it. Matter of fact in WoW when she was flag she would gate to town and wait out the 5 min flag. She is a pure PvEer at heart and she is not alone. This game brings balance with a huge map for PvPers to do their thing and a large game space for PvEers to do theirs. You want random PvP when you are questing, this game has that on the AvA map. Want to run a dungeon with the fear another factions team is doing the same thing around any corner, this game has that. Want a wicked awesome dungeon that you have to fight over the rights to enter with some of the best loot in the game, this game has that as well. Want objective based PvP where you fight over keeps and castles, again this game has it. It really is the best of both worlds.

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