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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why are MMO players so stupid?

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  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

5/22/13 7:23:13 AM#21
Originally posted by Kniknax
Originally posted by amber-r

I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

 

You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

 

Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

 

I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

"You dont see it anywhere else"..... have you never heard of the Lottery? Las Vegas? the Horse racing? Football? Basketball? Sports in general? Casinos? Roulette? Poker? 

Some folk enjoy gambling, and if they have the cash to do so, then its their choice as a adult.

We're talking video games, not brick and mortar casinos and sports books.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2833

5/22/13 7:25:55 AM#22
I have never understood why people care so much about how others spend their money. Get over it!
  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1562

5/22/13 7:28:43 AM#23
Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by Kniknax
Originally posted by amber-r

I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

 

You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

 

Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

 

I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

"You dont see it anywhere else"..... have you never heard of the Lottery? Las Vegas? the Horse racing? Football? Basketball? Sports in general? Casinos? Roulette? Poker? 

Some folk enjoy gambling, and if they have the cash to do so, then its their choice as a adult.

We're talking video games, not brick and mortar casinos and sports books.

Why should video games be free of gambling?

  User Deleted
5/22/13 7:35:13 AM#24


Originally posted by Dihoru
To all those who say they will not play F2P games and will do everything in their limited powers that their petty minds think is great to stop the trend... I thank you for the former.

Cool video! I was interested enough to go to the website for Blackbird Interactive to take a peek. Ho-boy...

"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide ($49.99)"
$50 for a freaking manual? Oh, and beta access, too.

10,000 First Wave VIP packages available.
"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide + First Wave VIP Package ($99.99)"
That is $999,900 they want up front from players.

Have fun! I can see clearly why they are making this game and it is not for "fun."

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 18383

5/22/13 7:45:33 AM#25
Originally posted by amber-r

Look at the cash shop in Tera, this is one of the worst I've seen.  It's also in many other games though, just not quite as bad.

 

http://tera.enmasse.com/game-guide/store-items/loot-boxes

 

They release a new mount or cosmetic and the only way to get it is to buy a lotto box, you buy it and open it and have a low % chance to get the items you just paid for or trash, many seem to be spending hundreds on a chance to get these basic cosmetics.  Almost everything in the shop that they add is like that, you can't simply buy them you have to gamble.

 

I just don't get why players keep buying this stuff to the point it's impossible to simply open the cash shop and buy an item without gambling.

Part of this might be regional differences.

Years ago, at a GenCon, I was speaking with the head GM of Lineage 2. Besides telling me some interesting tidbits about L2's development he mentioned the dice that were in the game.

He indicated that the Koreans really liked gambling and it was something that was very popular in their online games. The dice were for betting.

So when I see these lockboxes in Tera and Aion I am reminded of this info that was given to me.

People do like to gamble and personally I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's done for fun and you aren't running the deed to your house through the credit card machine.

 

  User Deleted
5/22/13 7:45:37 AM#26
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Dihoru
To all those who say they will not play F2P games and will do everything in their limited powers that their petty minds think is great to stop the trend... I thank you for the former.


Cool video! I was interested enough to go to the website for Blackbird Interactive to take a peek. Ho-boy...

 

"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide ($49.99)"
$50 for a freaking manual? Oh, and beta access, too.

10,000 First Wave VIP packages available.
"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide + First Wave VIP Package ($99.99)"
That is $999,900 they want up front from players.

Have fun! I can see clearly why they are making this game and it is not for "fun."

A pre-purchase is a pre-purchase... need I really point out MMORPG B2P/P2P collector's editions? or regular games with pre-purchases. The first one is a pre-purchase, the second is a collector's edition, at least they limit the latter, last I checked SWtOR made quite a few million off limited edition collector's editions during the pre-purchase period alone :P.

 

Also the prospector's guide is part manual part something else, I am not quite sure what exactly but they're talking as if it's a manual and a sort of storyline progression tool which gets updated when they push the story along, how I have no clue but one thing I will point out: Come launch everyone gets one so it isn't an exclusive, the First wave VIPs get some cosmetic stuff and artbooks for the game if memory serves. Again where's the issue?

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7834

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

5/22/13 7:49:03 AM#27
Originally posted by Hatefull
Originally posted by amber-r

I see horrible, horrible tactics used in many mmos with their cash shops and I also see no laws in place to stop them.

 

You very often get a minority of players speaking out about tactics publishers and developers use in their cash shops but the majority of their players still buy them and still lose lots of money.  Why are mmo players just so stupid with their money to the point of spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on random chance cosmetics and such?  A good company selling cosmetics for a flat fee makes a fraction of what a bad company can make with low chance lotto boxes designed to make you pay hundreds of dollars.

 

Even boycotting the cash shop does nothing because so many others will do it will still be profitable, if players stopped rewarding the bad behaviour used in these cash shops they would stop doing it.

 

I don't see this kind of practice anywhere else, you don't see new DLC for skyrim with a % chance to get it if you buy it.  You don't see it anywhere else, why do mmo players put up with it so readily?

What are you talking about?  If it is in the cash shop, you buy it, its gets delivered, you use it.  The only, gamble I have ever seen is in a certain Shooter where you played a ball game

 

It is quite clear what he is talking about.

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1222

5/22/13 7:52:59 AM#28
Could be worse, Enmasse entertainment actually took a item that was sold in the npc for 2 gold each (spellbinds) and made them a cash shop only item, well you can get them out of locked strongboxes but those need a cash shop key to open, and they are a required item at 60 to get the best stats on your gear, now they sell for 40-50 gold on the server I am on and apparently our server has the lowest prices on this stuff atm. A high level item needs 14 of these each time you reroll the stats on it. One per tier of the gear (top tier is 14). IMO they could have them in the cash shop but also make them a random monster drop, just semi-rare but nope.. Really REALLY hate it when these f2p games take stuff out of npc shops just to put them into the cash shop because its a needed item.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Four0Six

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1199

5/22/13 7:54:28 AM#29
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

One can not legislate away stupidity. It rears its ugly head no matter what laws are in place.

There are anti-racism laws (which is an oxymoron if I ever saw one) yet there are still racists around, in great numbers.

Stupidity is part of the natural selection process. The stupid die out and end their gene pool. We humans try hard to combat this. Have "we" become better by our effort?

Cash shops are a prime example of your question.
So is "art."
So is "perceived quality" in products and services.

Does a $400 haircut look any better or last any longer than a $20 haircut?
How about a $1000 suit vs. a $300 one? Both can be tailored to fit well.
Is a $300,000 Lamborghini 10x better than a $30,000 Chevy? Depends. Both get you from point A to B well. I guess "style" factors in there somewhere :)

People will spend money on what they want to. It is their money, after all. Everyone places different values on different things. Should there be laws to stop them from spending as they see fit?

I personally HATE cash shops and all they stand for. Doesn't mean they should not exist as others enjoy them. Quite a bit, apparently.

You had me until the cars. 

Your comparison should have been a Chevy Surbaban, and the Cadilac Escalade. They are the same vehicle but have a different trim level and a 20K difference in price.

Your comparison was akin to saying a Cessna was = to a Lear Jet, because they both fly. 

  User Deleted
5/22/13 8:01:10 AM#30


Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by Dihoru
To all those who say they will not play F2P games and will do everything in their limited powers that their petty minds think is great to stop the trend... I thank you for the former.

Cool video! I was interested enough to go to the website for Blackbird Interactive to take a peek. Ho-boy...

"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide ($49.99)" $50 for a freaking manual? Oh, and beta access, too.

10,000 First Wave VIP packages available.
"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide + First Wave VIP Package ($99.99)" That is $999,900 they want up front from players.

Have fun! I can see clearly why they are making this game and it is not for "fun."



A pre-purchase is a pre-purchase... need I really point out MMORPG B2P/P2P collector's editions? or regular games with pre-purchases. The first one is a pre-purchase, the second is a collector's edition, at least they limit the latter, last I checked SWtOR made quite a few million off limited edition collector's editions during the pre-purchase period alone :P.

Also the prospector's guide is part manual part something else, I am not quite sure what exactly but they're talking as if it's a manual and a sort of storyline progression tool which gets updated when they push the story along, how I have no clue but one thing I will point out: Come launch everyone gets one so it isn't an exclusive, the First wave VIPs get some cosmetic stuff and artbooks for the game if memory serves. Again where's the issue?



Good points, and true, too. I just don't buy into pre-paid beta access in any game. I'm sorry, but Tom Sawyer would not have fooled me into giving him my own stuff to paint his white fence for him.

Yea, the Prospector's Manual is kind of "unknown" for now. It sounds like it does include backstory and lore along with gaming elements like a manual.

I'll wait and see how it turns out, though it does sound interesting :)

  User Deleted
5/22/13 8:12:07 AM#31


Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
One can not legislate away stupidity. It rears its ugly head no matter what laws are in place.

There are anti-racism laws (which is an oxymoron if I ever saw one) yet there are still racists around, in great numbers.

Stupidity is part of the natural selection process. The stupid die out and end their gene pool. We humans try hard to combat this. Have "we" become better by our effort?

Cash shops are a prime example of your question.
So is "art."
So is "perceived quality" in products and services.

Does a $400 haircut look any better or last any longer than a $20 haircut?
How about a $1000 suit vs. a $300 one? Both can be tailored to fit well.
Is a $300,000 Lamborghini 10x better than a $30,000 Chevy? Depends. Both get you from point A to B well. I guess "style" factors in there somewhere :)

People will spend money on what they want to. It is their money, after all. Everyone places different values on different things. Should there be laws to stop them from spending as they see fit?

I personally HATE cash shops and all they stand for. Doesn't mean they should not exist as others enjoy them. Quite a bit, apparently.



You had me until the cars. 

Your comparison should have been a Chevy Surbaban, and the Cadilac Escalade. They are the same vehicle but have a different trim level and a 20K difference in price.

Your comparison was akin to saying a Cessna was = to a Lear Jet, because they both fly.



But is a Lamborghini 10x the car that a Chevy is, warranting the 10x price?

Can a Lamborghini fit more passengers in their car (like a Lear Jet vs. Cessna)?
Does it get a person to a place faster than any other car (Lear Jet vs, Cessna)? There are speed limits, after all, regulating how fast one should drive.

People buy into the hype that is Lamborghini. It is a status symbol and people will pay huge amounts of money to have that perceived status. Does it make them better cars? Mechanically speaking, yes. 10x better? I don't think so. Do they perform their job (getting from point A to B) any better? I don't think so.

I did mention "style" factoring in, though :)

You are right in that your example would have been better. Suburban vs. Escalade would have done nicely :)

  User Deleted
5/22/13 8:14:45 AM#32
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by Dihoru
To all those who say they will not play F2P games and will do everything in their limited powers that their petty minds think is great to stop the trend... I thank you for the former.


Cool video! I was interested enough to go to the website for Blackbird Interactive to take a peek. Ho-boy...

 

"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide ($49.99)" $50 for a freaking manual? Oh, and beta access, too.

10,000 First Wave VIP packages available.
"Pre-Purchase the Prospector's Guide + First Wave VIP Package ($99.99)" That is $999,900 they want up front from players.

Have fun! I can see clearly why they are making this game and it is not for "fun."



A pre-purchase is a pre-purchase... need I really point out MMORPG B2P/P2P collector's editions? or regular games with pre-purchases. The first one is a pre-purchase, the second is a collector's edition, at least they limit the latter, last I checked SWtOR made quite a few million off limited edition collector's editions during the pre-purchase period alone :P.

 

Also the prospector's guide is part manual part something else, I am not quite sure what exactly but they're talking as if it's a manual and a sort of storyline progression tool which gets updated when they push the story along, how I have no clue but one thing I will point out: Come launch everyone gets one so it isn't an exclusive, the First wave VIPs get some cosmetic stuff and artbooks for the game if memory serves. Again where's the issue?



Good points, and true, too. I just don't buy into pre-paid beta access in any game. I'm sorry, but Tom Sawyer would not have fooled me into giving him my own stuff to paint his white fence for him.

 

Yea, the Prospector's Manual is kind of "unknown" for now. It sounds like it does include backstory and lore along with gaming elements like a manual.

I'll wait and see how it turns out, though it does sound interesting :)

As will I, I don't pre-purchase unless I am damn sure I like the game first ( minecraft and planet explorers being the two most recent such titles and that's because I got to try both of them in alpha and liked the game ) and as an old Homeworld 1 die hard I am hella tempted because that teaser alone holds so many key phrases from Homeworld not to mention visuals that the urge is hard to resist (look up the intro from Homeworld 1 on youtube to see what I mean).

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