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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » The Perfect Baby of GW2 and WoW?

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83 posts found
  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1885

5/20/13 12:06:08 PM#21

Iam going to be honest here and not try to bash or talk negative about Wildstar, i have not looked into the game or seen enough to say anything good or bad about it !!!

I just talk about what made WoW the best mmo time i have ever had :)

That time was born when WoW came out and it took 2.5 hours to complete a dungeon and pray you had a piece of blue gear at the end of your run.

Where many guilds where raiding end game contend and a tight SERVER community was build.
Where pvp versus the other faction ment something, where you fought for honor and glory.
Where you knew the names of the best pvp players on your server from ally to foe.
Where in some cases you even knew their real 1st name from Ventrillo.

Where epic battles where fought at raid entrance's and many people where locked out of the raid as they coulnt get past the endless rage of the enemy that blocked said gates,
Where you as alliance / horde needed to clear the damn corridors leading to the entrance to get your raid inside.

Where farming gold in peace could turn into a server shutdown as the whole server was called in to wipe that spot clean of enemy's
Where you made premades and farmed hours on end for a pvp rank to get a free mount or the highest pvp rank for epeen.
Where you build a friend list that lasted for years...

The communty is what makes mmo's great to play. but its the developers to give us the tools to build that kind of mmo...
With spoodfed epics and instand cross realm pvp you create a lobby game that dies faster then it gets a chanse to grow.
I realy hope Developers can create such mmo where that magic flame will burn once more.
WoW's best days where not the 8 million subs.....it was when the game had 500k subs :)
it was the vocal minority that pulled in more and more people into the game before it spread like wildfire and grew into the giant it once was.


If mmo's try to copy the latest shit like Warhammer / Aion / SWTOR / GW2 then the same fait awaits them.
it will just be mmo number 197390131 that launches with maybe 2 million subs before server after server dies out.

Its hard to pinpoint where that sweet spot for mmo's is.
Where its community gets a chanse to grow and the players gets the tools to make it last.


  Aredyl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/11
Posts: 22

5/20/13 5:27:38 PM#22

When I played WoW, I did enjoy the epic style of 40 man raiding.  It was also frustrating on those night where people didn't show up - having a group of 30 or so and had to cancel.

For me, the best part of WoW was from TBC to the end of WotLK - a climate that allowed smaller groups to coexist with larger groups.  During TBC, ZA and Kara were still needed long after they were released.  It allowed for casual raiders to get some gear, raiders needing to replace that outdated item or two, or just blow something up for the challenge *cough* ZA bear *cough*.

WotLK had something similar in the split between 10 man and 25 man raiding.  It allowed casual raiding alongside hardcore raiding.  I could help out a friend in their 10 man without sacrificing my spot in a hardcore 25 man.  The community was also strong enough on most servers to PuG 25 mans later in the life cycle.

With the removal of the 10/25 man lockout, it forced players to make a decision between their two groups.  Raid leaders decided to downsize to 10 man since the content was almost identical, the rewards were the exact same, and they didn't have to put in as much effort.  The gear resets experienced in WotLK became more noticed to me, as the old content during Cata/MoP just served as a quick farm for points - rarely did anything useful come in the way of drops that were substantially better than what was available for soloists.

Blizzard introduced LFR to help bridge this, but it really isn't the same thing.  You don't even need your friends to raid casually anymore - just push a button and wait for a raid filled with a bunch of pugs just like (and the complete opposite of) you.  Instead of supporting the casual community, it helped drive it apart.

-----------------------------------

Back on topic:  I don't think that Wildstar will be that cross between WoW and GW2, unless you refer that it has a cartoon-like art style (like WoW) and is more action-based (like GW2).  I feel that it will have that niche market that will support it (I won't for one glaring reason that I won't state here).  I also believe that you won't see that large blockbuster style MMO anymore, as there are just too many choices nowadays trying to be that next 5+ million playerbase MMO.  

(On a side note:  a good chunk of Blizzard's subscription base was out of China, and with that market favoring the new MMO instead of the established one, its unlikely anybody will enjoy that much success again without completely revamping the formula to something we haven't seen before.)

  Leiloni

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 383

5/20/13 5:32:40 PM#23
Originally posted by MadDemon64

I dunno, I personally feel as though WildStar's combat to be somewhat clunky.  You move around as though this was a reticle combat MMO like RaiderZ, TERA, or Neverwinter, but unlike all three of them, your main attack is a bunch of hotkeys 1-6, which I find very difficult to press when I am trying to dodge an attack.

Still, the game is enjoyable, but it's about as perfect as any other MMO out there; in other words it is not.

TERA's combat is still by far the best of any MMORPG on the market, so if it's anything like that, which it's looking like it will be, I'll be super happy. Also, what's so hard about moving and pressing keybinds all at the same time?

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1392

5/20/13 5:34:05 PM#24
You forgot one MASSIVE feature, that many people hold dear and sometimes even a decisive factor wether to play or not , HOUSING!

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

5/20/13 5:36:54 PM#25
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Way more wow than gw2

Gear driven, raid orientated etc..

and thats the great part :)

wow > gw2 .... rpgs are and always were about gear and power. GW 2 failed in this hard time, they did screw up loyal gw 1 fans and bring no endgame for wow/eq players.

  MadDemon64

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1093

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

5/20/13 5:40:43 PM#26
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by MadDemon64

I dunno, I personally feel as though WildStar's combat to be somewhat clunky.  You move around as though this was a reticle combat MMO like RaiderZ, TERA, or Neverwinter, but unlike all three of them, your main attack is a bunch of hotkeys 1-6, which I find very difficult to press when I am trying to dodge an attack.

Still, the game is enjoyable, but it's about as perfect as any other MMO out there; in other words it is not.

TERA's combat is still by far the best of any MMORPG on the market, so if it's anything like that, which it's looking like it will be, I'll be super happy. Also, what's so hard about moving and pressing keybinds all at the same time?

I think it would be best if you experienced it firsthand.  It might not be clunky to you, but it sure is to me.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 3037

5/20/13 5:52:02 PM#27
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Way more wow than gw2

Gear driven, raid orientated etc..

and thats the great part :)

wow > gw2 .... rpgs are and always were about gear and power. GW 2 failed in this hard time, they did screw up loyal gw 1 fans and bring no endgame for wow/eq players.

I love when everybody uses the word 'failed' as if they are the final say on what that means to everyone. I'm also glad that RP servers weren't set up to accommodate your definition of what Role Playing is because that was the worst definition I ever heard.

There Is Always Hope!

  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

5/20/13 5:56:45 PM#28
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Way more wow than gw2

Gear driven, raid orientated etc..

and thats the great part :)

wow > gw2 .... rpgs are and always were about gear and power. GW 2 failed in this hard time, they did screw up loyal gw 1 fans and bring no endgame for wow/eq players.

I love when everybody uses the word 'failed' as if they are the final say on what that means to everyone. I'm also glad that RP servers weren't set up to accommodate your definition of what Role Playing is because that was the worst definition I ever heard.

Well it failed in my eyes for sure .. I played gw 2 for 1650 hours in 6 months, crafted juggernaut and predator, leveled 6x 80 just to realize I should have quit loong time ago because all what I am left to do is create another alts .. so i sold acc fot 500 bucks and I am glad :) urge to create alts because nothing else to do = screw it

For instance .. in wow that I played for 6 years, I had only 2 max lvl characters with hundred of days played. In aion only one char for 9 months ... etc, etc. That is how it should be, my oppinion ofc.

So if game forces me to create alts in few weeks or months so I have something to do again, I see it as a fail.

  kDeviL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 237

 
OP  5/21/13 12:41:57 AM#29
Originally posted by Fusion
You forgot one MASSIVE feature, that many people hold dear and sometimes even a decisive factor wether to play or not , HOUSING!

No i didn't o.O It's right there lol.  I even put "IN depth player housing, 4th one down or so in the "and a bunch of other cool shit" category.

If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?

  Br3akingDawn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 1330

5/21/13 12:47:08 AM#30
mmmm, 4oman raids..... hopefully its nothing like GW2 zone boss battles, I mean those are like raids.... I see 20...30,....40 even maybe 60 man trying to down a boss. But god, I just auto attack and button mash and got free loot.

  kDeviL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 237

 
OP  5/21/13 12:58:33 AM#31
Originally posted by Epic1oots
mmmm, 4oman raids..... hopefully its nothing like GW2 zone boss battles, I mean those are like raids.... I see 20...30,....40 even maybe 60 man trying to down a boss. But god, I just auto attack and button mash and got free loot.

Like i would literally put something on my 1 key and go make a sandwich, then get gold participation while enjoying some roast beef =p Boss mechanics definitely weren't GW2's strong suit. 

But no they're full out instanced raids with decent mechanics from the looks of them but who knows.

If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?

  Aeander

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 424

5/21/13 1:04:52 AM#32
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Way more wow than gw2

Gear driven, raid orientated etc..

and thats the great part :)

wow > gw2 .... rpgs are and always were about gear and power. GW 2 failed in this hard time, they did screw up loyal gw 1 fans and bring no endgame for wow/eq players.

That would be your opinion. In my opinion, RPGs are about varied experiences and adventures, player freedom, story, and a sense of importance in one's actions, all of which are done better in Guild Wars 2. Gear and power are secondary, optional aspects of the genre that may or may not be included depending on target audience. 

  Leiloni

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 383

5/21/13 1:08:42 AM#33
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by MadDemon64

I dunno, I personally feel as though WildStar's combat to be somewhat clunky.  You move around as though this was a reticle combat MMO like RaiderZ, TERA, or Neverwinter, but unlike all three of them, your main attack is a bunch of hotkeys 1-6, which I find very difficult to press when I am trying to dodge an attack.

Still, the game is enjoyable, but it's about as perfect as any other MMO out there; in other words it is not.

TERA's combat is still by far the best of any MMORPG on the market, so if it's anything like that, which it's looking like it will be, I'll be super happy. Also, what's so hard about moving and pressing keybinds all at the same time?

I think it would be best if you experienced it firsthand.  It might not be clunky to you, but it sure is to me.

You describe two things - moving around a lot as if you had reticle combat, and your main skills being hotkeyed. RaiderZ, TERA, and Neverwinter have those 2 things in common. Moving around a lot via reticle combat and hotkeying skills. Neverwinter only has a few skillslots which I've rebound to mousekeys while both RaiderZ and TERA have 25ish skills you have to keybind (so much more than 1-6) while also aiming, dodging, strafing, etc. And all three of those games have animation locking (some people find this clunky I guess, I love it).

So based on what you said I don't understand what is bad about Wildstar's combat because to me, those three games have some of the most fun combat on the market. The fact that Wildstar is going with an action combat style is probably the biggest thing I'm looking forward to with this game. If they went further in the tab target direction I would not be paying any attention to this game.

  kDeviL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 237

 
OP  5/21/13 1:31:43 AM#34
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by MadDemon64

I dunno, I personally feel as though WildStar's combat to be somewhat clunky.  You move around as though this was a reticle combat MMO like RaiderZ, TERA, or Neverwinter, but unlike all three of them, your main attack is a bunch of hotkeys 1-6, which I find very difficult to press when I am trying to dodge an attack.

Still, the game is enjoyable, but it's about as perfect as any other MMO out there; in other words it is not.

TERA's combat is still by far the best of any MMORPG on the market, so if it's anything like that, which it's looking like it will be, I'll be super happy. Also, what's so hard about moving and pressing keybinds all at the same time?

I think it would be best if you experienced it firsthand.  It might not be clunky to you, but it sure is to me.

You describe two things - moving around a lot as if you had reticle combat, and your main skills being hotkeyed. RaiderZ, TERA, and Neverwinter have those 2 things in common. Moving around a lot via reticle combat and hotkeying skills. Neverwinter only has a few skillslots which I've rebound to mousekeys while both RaiderZ and TERA have 25ish skills you have to keybind (so much more than 1-6) while also aiming, dodging, strafing, etc. And all three of those games have animation locking (some people find this clunky I guess, I love it).

So based on what you said I don't understand what is bad about Wildstar's combat because to me, those three games have some of the most fun combat on the market. The fact that Wildstar is going with an action combat style is probably the biggest thing I'm looking forward to with this game. If they went further in the tab target direction I would not be paying any attention to this game.

Honestly I think that animation locks kill any sort of "action" the combat could ever have.  You should never, at any point be standing still and be able to title a game with action combat.  Because yes it does make it feel very clunky and unresponsive. I honestly felt more control over my character in runescape. The difference in Wildstar is that from the looks of it you're never rooted in place, always moving around, things are at a faster pace and pretty much every other part about it.

If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?

  Leiloni

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 383

5/21/13 1:40:57 AM#35
Originally posted by kDeviL

Honestly I think that animation locks kill any sort of "action" the combat could ever have.  You should never, at any point be standing still and be able to title a game with action combat.  Because yes it does make it feel very clunky and unresponsive. I honestly felt more control over my character in runescape. The difference in Wildstar is that from the looks of it you're never rooted in place, always moving around, things are at a faster pace and pretty much every other part about it.

Action combat games are not about constant movement, they are about smart movement. It's the fact that you have to aim your skills and that you actually have the ability to avoid damage, unlike in tab target games where damage resistance is pure numbers and you never lose your target after acquiring it. It's the ability to be more a part of the action and focusing more on every move instead of standing back pressing buttons watching it play out.

With animation lock in an action combat game, your choices are important. If you start using a skill when you need to be dodging, you might just take a massive hit to the face, or maybe you're using a skill while your enemy is dodging or blocking or just flat out moving out of the way, and now you've just wasted a cooldown.

Animation locking also adds a nice flow to combat, aside from making it visually appealing, and paces it appropriately in the same way global cooldowns do in tab target games, except it does so far better. Being able to constantly spam skills does not make a game an action combat game. Spamming means there's far less skill involved and thought going into what you're doing and choices don't hold much weight since you can easily just keep moving and keep spamming.

 

  AIMonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2025

5/21/13 1:57:25 AM#36
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by MadDemon64

I dunno, I personally feel as though WildStar's combat to be somewhat clunky.  You move around as though this was a reticle combat MMO like RaiderZ, TERA, or Neverwinter, but unlike all three of them, your main attack is a bunch of hotkeys 1-6, which I find very difficult to press when I am trying to dodge an attack.

Still, the game is enjoyable, but it's about as perfect as any other MMO out there; in other words it is not.

TERA's combat is still by far the best of any MMORPG on the market, so if it's anything like that, which it's looking like it will be, I'll be super happy. Also, what's so hard about moving and pressing keybinds all at the same time?

I disagree with you.  I found Tera's combat much less interesting and worse off than GW2's (which Wildstar has MUCH more in common with than Tera).  My primary reasons were due to animation lock (I don't mind it, but skills too way too long to use on some classes) and encounter design being rather boring (kite fest or attack/dodge fests depending on your class).  On the other hand GW2 always felt like my skill was coming into play more than Tera.  For the record I play a lot of 2D Fighters and used to be able to compete at a semi-professional level and they have "animation locking", but I still preferred GW2's over Tera's.

Now GW2 could have been a lot more interesting if there was a Trinity, true raid content, and more interesting dungeon mechanics... OH WAIT Wildstar has those!  I still enjoyed GW2 and played it for far longer than I did Tera despite it nothing the above.

I think the comparison that GW2 and WoW had a baby is a good one, and of course that baby has it's own uniqueness too like some of the features you mentioned.  I think Wildstar is going to be a great game.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  kDeviL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 237

 
OP  5/21/13 1:58:13 AM#37
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by kDeviL

Honestly I think that animation locks kill any sort of "action" the combat could ever have.  You should never, at any point be standing still and be able to title a game with action combat.  Because yes it does make it feel very clunky and unresponsive. I honestly felt more control over my character in runescape. The difference in Wildstar is that from the looks of it you're never rooted in place, always moving around, things are at a faster pace and pretty much every other part about it.

Action combat games are not about constant movement, they are about smart movement. It's the fact that you have to aim your skills and that you actually have the ability to avoid damage, unlike in tab target games where damage resistance is pure numbers and you never lose your target after acquiring it. It's the ability to be more a part of the action and focusing more on every move instead of standing back pressing buttons watching it play out.

With animation lock in an action combat game, your choices are important. If you start using a skill when you need to be dodging, you might just take a massive hit to the face, or maybe you're using a skill while your enemy is dodging or blocking or just flat out moving out of the way, and now you've just wasted a cooldown.

Animation locking also adds a nice flow to combat, aside from making it visually appealing, and paces it appropriately in the same way global cooldowns do in tab target games, except it does so far better. Being able to constantly spam skills does not make a game an action combat game. Spamming means there's far less skill involved and thought going into what you're doing and choices don't hold much weight since you can easily just keep moving and keep spamming.

 

 Easy breh, I'm not condemning that kind of combat I'm just saying, from the examples and everything you just said it could be classified as I've always called it "tactical combat."   It's not a bad thing it's just not action combat. You're only thinking in the realm of MMOs, and even in that case B&S would probably take the cake.  True action combat would be something like Devil may cry or god of war. Neither of which have been implemented into an NA released mmo yet.

 Jw which game are you referring to where you "just keep moving and keep spamming?"  For valid discussion's sake.

If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?

  kDeviL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/12
Posts: 237

 
OP  5/22/13 12:10:11 AM#38
Originally posted by tollbooth
Combination of GW2 and WoW sounds like an attempt at the most anti-fun game possible.

You should try to look at a glass as half full some time ^^

If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?

  umie214

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 125

5/22/13 3:20:03 PM#39
as much as i love GW2, Wildstar seems to offer vastly superior and generally more complex PVE content. i bought GW2 for the pvp and have been thoroughly disappointed by the slow (virtually non-existent) pace of WvW and spvp development. im very excited about Wildstar. 
  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 587

5/22/13 11:59:21 PM#40

I don't see why people even put WildStar in the same category as GW2.  GW2 was a MMO lite masquerading itself as an MMO.  WildStar is a full fledged MMO that includes innovation and tradition.  

WildStar:

  • Has Endgame and a Endgame focus.
  • Has Raids.
  • Has Healers.
  • Has Tanks.
  • Has the Trinity.
  • Has progression in PvE includes with gear.
  • Has progression in PvP including with gear.
  • Has Mounts.
  • Has Traditional Questing mixed with dynamic.
  • World is seamless unlike GW2 which is a series of instances.
  • Two player factions "at war" with each other.
  • Has Dueling.
  • Has Group Finder.
I probably missed several things, but a lot of these are core game design elements. These MMOs couldn't be more different in terms of core game design elements.  In fact they almost are opposite of each other.  If stretch it so far to compare WildStar with GW2 you can compare WildStar to any MMO in history.
 
Thankfully for WildStar, it is nothing like GW2.

 

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