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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » I want to pay for the game and have a sub.

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209 posts found
  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

5/20/13 2:52:07 PM#101
Originally posted by Aeander

I'm going to have to pass if it's a sub game. i don't feel like renting something I've already paid for. 

Careful now, you're treading on movie ticket analogy thin ice here.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

5/20/13 2:54:59 PM#102
Originally posted by deveilblad

Cheap people lol...

Could you explain WHY we would be entitled to a game with many content updates on a regular basis with just a box price and nothing else after ?Let's compare here : Do you see many single player games give you DLCs for free ? Do you whine saying ''OMG THEY ARE ASKING ME 10$ FOR THAT SKYRIM DLC (example) ?!?! BUT I ALREADY PAID THE ORIGINAL BOX PRICE DUHHH'' Why do you feel entitled to free content updates because it's an online game ? I don't get people's logic these days...

Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable?  Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to.  *shrug*  Guess that makes me "entitled" too.  Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

5/20/13 3:06:44 PM#103
Originally posted by rojo6934

its totally understandable that some people prefer subscriptions for various reasons. That is your preference and that is fine.

 

I would be happy to purchase the game and any expansions and cosmetic fluff in cash shop, but i will not subscribe.

I have purchased every subscription mmo that came out in the last few years and all of them are Free to play now with subscription option or buy to play with sub option too. Wildstar has potential to go the same route and i will wait for that day to play it past the first free 30 days. That is my preference and that is also fine.

 I completely agree, if the game goes F2P people wasted 60 dollars + 15 monthly. I'd rather wait it out for a P2P game to flop. We all know that P2P games can't hold their subscription model anymore so why pay for it?


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

5/20/13 3:09:51 PM#104
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by deveilblad

Cheap people lol...

Could you explain WHY we would be entitled to a game with many content updates on a regular basis with just a box price and nothing else after ?Let's compare here : Do you see many single player games give you DLCs for free ? Do you whine saying ''OMG THEY ARE ASKING ME 10$ FOR THAT SKYRIM DLC (example) ?!?! BUT I ALREADY PAID THE ORIGINAL BOX PRICE DUHHH'' Why do you feel entitled to free content updates because it's an online game ? I don't get people's logic these days...

Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable?  Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to.  *shrug*  Guess that makes me "entitled" too.  Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.

 I don't believe you're entitling yourself to anything. Just about every game in the industry has online capabilities. Which means they are being run on a server online. If we don't have to pay a subscription for those games how dare they try and charge us for a sub standard RPG experience with these titles. Because lets face it MMO's aren't innovative. These games are years behind single player RPG's. 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Aeander

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 515

5/20/13 3:33:05 PM#105
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by someforumguy

It is not the payment model that determines content quality and quantity. It is the developer, regardless of payment model. I thought that this was known by now. Just look at the crappy subbased releases that included a cash shop from the start.

Stop thinking that having to pay for a sub gives you any guarantee besides the fact that you have to pay monthly. Without knowing how the game turns out to be at release it is naive to start talking money. How many failed releases do you need to learn that lol ?

Cash shop DOES mean a game of lesser quality because they always have to think about how to make you spend in the cash shop, either by gating some content from you, or making a lot of small annoyances in the game if you don't buy certain items, and even with cosmetic only cash shop, they have to divert some of the focus on content to create cute little outfits and pets and stuff.... ( I don't know any F2P games that have ONLY cosmetic stuff... don't give me GW2 as an example, you can buy gold directly from them... )

 

So YES, the payment model does determine the quality of the game BECAUSE it changes the mentality of both the developers and the players.

 

Originally posted by genclaymore
Originally posted by Aeander

I'm going to have to pass if it's a sub game. i don't feel like renting something I've already paid for. 

 

I'll buy a box and perhaps even spend money in a cosmetics + convenience only cash shop, but I will not hand them money every month for nothing. 

Same, it be something different if it was a b2p game, I'll do a B2P game way before i go back to a P2p game, unless I can get time cards dirt cheap.

Cheap people lol...

Could you explain WHY we would be entitled to a game with many content updates on a regular basis with just a box price and nothing else after ?Let's compare here : Do you see many single player games give you DLCs for free ? Do you whine saying ''OMG THEY ARE ASKING ME 10$ FOR THAT SKYRIM DLC (example) ?!?! BUT I ALREADY PAID THE ORIGINAL BOX PRICE DUHHH'' Why do you feel entitled to free content updates because it's an online game ? I don't get people's logic these days...

 

1) You seem to be under the impression that subscription games provide enough content updates to warrant a subscription fee. Most of them don't. Oh, and your standard bug and balance fix patches don't count - single-player games and non-subscription online games offer them for free, because their developers don't charge you for their screw-ups. 

2) When you buy DLC for a game, you are directly paying for content. On a subscription fee, you are paying them regardless of whether or not they give you any new content that month.

3) You can play a single player game without buying its content updates. You cannot play a subscription MMO without giving them more and more money every month. You literally have no choice but to play or not play.

4) Subscription MMOs charge for expansion packs.  What is an expansion pack? OH, RIGHT. A CONTENT UPDATE. So much for that subscription fee.

5) DLC tends to consist of major changes to the game - that Skyrim DLC offers way more than the content offered by a month of an MMO's content updates. Hell, it probably offers more than several months of MMO content updates.

 

 

 

I'm not cheap. I'm not entitled. I'm just not blind. 

  deveilblad

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/13
Posts: 177

5/20/13 4:24:09 PM#106
Originally posted by Aeander
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by someforumguy

It is not the payment model that determines content quality and quantity. It is the developer, regardless of payment model. I thought that this was known by now. Just look at the crappy subbased releases that included a cash shop from the start.

Stop thinking that having to pay for a sub gives you any guarantee besides the fact that you have to pay monthly. Without knowing how the game turns out to be at release it is naive to start talking money. How many failed releases do you need to learn that lol ?

Cash shop DOES mean a game of lesser quality because they always have to think about how to make you spend in the cash shop, either by gating some content from you, or making a lot of small annoyances in the game if you don't buy certain items, and even with cosmetic only cash shop, they have to divert some of the focus on content to create cute little outfits and pets and stuff.... ( I don't know any F2P games that have ONLY cosmetic stuff... don't give me GW2 as an example, you can buy gold directly from them... )

 

So YES, the payment model does determine the quality of the game BECAUSE it changes the mentality of both the developers and the players.

 

Originally posted by genclaymore
Originally posted by Aeander

I'm going to have to pass if it's a sub game. i don't feel like renting something I've already paid for. 

 

I'll buy a box and perhaps even spend money in a cosmetics + convenience only cash shop, but I will not hand them money every month for nothing. 

Same, it be something different if it was a b2p game, I'll do a B2P game way before i go back to a P2p game, unless I can get time cards dirt cheap.

Cheap people lol...

Could you explain WHY we would be entitled to a game with many content updates on a regular basis with just a box price and nothing else after ?Let's compare here : Do you see many single player games give you DLCs for free ? Do you whine saying ''OMG THEY ARE ASKING ME 10$ FOR THAT SKYRIM DLC (example) ?!?! BUT I ALREADY PAID THE ORIGINAL BOX PRICE DUHHH'' Why do you feel entitled to free content updates because it's an online game ? I don't get people's logic these days...

 

1) You seem to be under the impression that subscription games provide enough content updates to warrant a subscription fee. Most of them don't. Oh, and your standard bug and balance fix patches don't count - single-player games and non-subscription online games offer them for free, because their developers don't charge you for their screw-ups. 

2) When you buy DLC for a game, you are directly paying for content. On a subscription fee, you are paying them regardless of whether or not they give you any new content that month.

3) You can play a single player game without buying its content updates. You cannot play a subscription MMO without giving them more and more money every month. You literally have no choice but to play or not play.

4) Subscription MMOs charge for expansion packs.  What is an expansion pack? OH, RIGHT. A CONTENT UPDATE. So much for that subscription fee.

5) DLC tends to consist of major changes to the game - that Skyrim DLC offers way more than the content offered by a month of an MMO's content updates. Hell, it probably offers more than several months of MMO content updates.

 

 

 

I'm not cheap. I'm not entitled. I'm just not blind. 

1) That's why I hope that Wildstar turns out to be a good MMO with good support and updates, not like most MMOs these days, which like you said, are not worth the sub fee I agree with you on this.

2) A subscription fee is not ONLY for content. You pay for a service : the server itself, the customer support, the content development, etc... With a F2P they are just taking your money from other sources aka the cash shop. It's the exact same thing, but with the F2P model, there's 1 person paying 30$,40$,50$ or even more every month for 10 person freeloading the server...

3) Because a single player game does not cost anything to keep it up after it's release.

4) You certainly didn't read the part where I wrote that I don't want a cost for expansions, just a subscription fee.

5) A lot of DLCs are quite lacking in content and often cost more than a month's sub. Elder scrolls is kind of above average lol.

  Demalis

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/13
Posts: 134

5/20/13 5:12:14 PM#107

It is weird that p2p means wow's subrscription model. I prefer Eve's pay monthly and expansions are free.

edit: @zalmon no it isn't it is in a video somewhere.

  Zalmon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 338

5/20/13 5:15:44 PM#108
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Rinna

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

Dont worry .. I can guarantee you that WildStar is not going to be f2p.

Its either p2p or maybe b2p.

Quite a bold claim.

  Ramanadjinn

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1365

5/20/13 5:26:35 PM#109
Originally posted by deveilblad
 

3) Because a single player game does not cost anything to keep it up after it's release.

 

 

I'm not certain that is true.  Only in the most simplistic view would this hold.  In actuality companies have costs associated with products long after they release.  Games, multiplayer and single, are no exception.

 

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/20/13 8:34:13 PM#110
Originally posted by Eir_S

Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable?  Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to.  *shrug*  Guess that makes me "entitled" too.  Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.

Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

5/20/13 8:44:47 PM#111
Originally posted by Rinna

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

You can pay for the game and have a sub. However, I don't want to sub anymore. I'll gladly buy the box though.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

5/20/13 8:46:08 PM#112
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Rinna

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

Dont worry .. I can guarantee you that WildStar is not going to be f2p.

Its either p2p or maybe b2p.

 You cannot guarantee anything as of right now.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Thupli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 500

5/20/13 8:47:38 PM#113
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Eir_S

Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable?  Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to.  *shrug*  Guess that makes me "entitled" too.  Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.

Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.

Of course box sales are down, but you don't even mention that is what your stat refers to.  That's the trend.  Of course, your number doesn't tell you anything about how much the game is making from fluff in the cs, nor does it tell you what their profit margin.  One would think you know very little about he cycle of cash flow in mmos.  

You should also try not to pump up your point by twisting dataz, btw.

  Grailer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 876

5/20/13 8:48:14 PM#114

I don't mind Sub per month .

 

FTP seems like a scam most of the time just to get people to play so they might hopefully get sucked in to buying something.

 

 

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2782

5/20/13 8:48:55 PM#115
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Aeander

I'm going to have to pass if it's a sub game. i don't feel like renting something I've already paid for. 

Careful now, you're treading on movie ticket analogy thin ice here.

How so? I buy a ticket to watch a single performance of a movie. How is that in any way, shape or form akin to subbing to a video game?

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

5/20/13 8:52:07 PM#116
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by DamonVile

It blows me away that there are ppl out there that think a cash shop selling ANYTHING in a sub game is ok.

Even blizzard has said the age of subs is probably coming to an end. The market has changed.

The "age of subs" have not come to an end.  Millions of people pay subscriptions to most of their services including entertainment (see Netflix).  What has come to an end is people paying subscription to sub par games.

 I suppose that's why World of Warcraft subscriptions are falling significantly because it's a "subpar" game? Face it subscription based games are done; and Netflix essentially killed the video rental industry. The price for as many movies you want at 7.99 blows anything out of the water as far as movies goes. Who's going to buy a DVD for 15-20.00 when they can simply watch it on netflix for virtually nothing. 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1795

5/20/13 8:52:25 PM#117
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Rinna

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

Dont worry .. I can guarantee you that WildStar is not going to be f2p.

Its either p2p or maybe b2p.

 You cannot guarantee anything as of right now.

If Wildstar is truly going after the hard core raid crowd it will be sub.  It has to be as that's the only way your going to have a prayer of convincing them really give your end game a go and stick around.  B2P and F2P are fine for casual MMO's and PVP feasts but they don't exactly have a stellar reputation for creating compelling PVE end game for long periods of time.  Those kinds of games don't add to the PVE end game like Sub games do, at least not like the sub games that have drawn raiders to them like WoW, EQ2, and Rift.

Not that any Sub game released in the last few years has either but that might be exactly why they are all F2P now.   I know a lot of people who raid in EQ2 and I can't say that I know a single one who plays the game F2P.  They all sub and leave the F2P crap for the casuals.   

  atziluth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 1230

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5/20/13 9:03:59 PM#118
Originally posted by Rinna

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

You may want sub pay models, but the overwhelming drive is moving towards F2P models or hybrids. Wildstar may start out sub, but within 18 - 24 months it will go F2P or hybrid. There is just so much more money in it. You can either adapt or move to a different genre. 

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/20/13 10:20:51 PM#119
Originally posted by Thupli

Of course box sales are down, but you don't even mention that is what your stat refers to.  That's the trend.  Of course, your number doesn't tell you anything about how much the game is making from fluff in the cs, nor does it tell you what their profit margin.  One would think you know very little about he cycle of cash flow in mmos.  

You should also try not to pump up your point by twisting dataz, btw.

Thats total revenue as stated on the earnings call. Christ, I know its something negative said about your precious Gw2 but please face reality.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

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  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

5/20/13 10:25:58 PM#120
Originally posted by udon

If Wildstar is truly going after the hard core raid crowd it will be sub.  It has to be as that's the only way your going to have a prayer of convincing them really give your end game a go and stick around.  B2P and F2P are fine for casual MMO's and PVP feasts but they don't exactly have a stellar reputation for creating compelling PVE end game for long periods of time.  Those kinds of games don't add to the PVE end game like Sub games do, at least not like the sub games that have drawn raiders to them like WoW, EQ2, and Rift.

Not that any Sub game released in the last few years has either but that might be exactly why they are all F2P now.   I know a lot of people who raid in EQ2 and I can't say that I know a single one who plays the game F2P.  They all sub and leave the F2P crap for the casuals.   

I don't really see how a game can't be free to play if you want raiders to take it seriously but then use a free to play game as your example. Obviously you can have both in one game and make it work....eq2 seems to of.

 

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