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  trancejeremy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 1217

 
OP  5/17/13 4:06:02 AM#1

Because some people will literally spend $1000s a month on a game:

 

http://atlantica.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F850528-Wyvern-to-rare-wyvern%26nxid%3D12

 

[quote]

Chance is incredibly low, my guess is around 0.1%.
I used 150+ boxes on the upgrade, got multiple of every other item, but no rare wyvern.
I'm NOT happy.

[/quote]

 

Those being the latest mount box, which cost $50 for 7. So he literally spent $1000 or so. And then later in the thread, he bought another 100 more.

 

And this is not a rarity in F2P games. I'm not saying it's common, exactly, but all games have a number of "whales" that do this. And ultimately, games get designed to take advantage of these people, which leaves regular people in the dirt.

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2666

5/17/13 4:14:50 AM#2
Originally posted by trancejeremy

Because some people will literally spend $1000s a month on a game:

 

http://atlantica.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F850528-Wyvern-to-rare-wyvern%26nxid%3D12

 

[quote]

Chance is incredibly low, my guess is around 0.1%.
I used 150+ boxes on the upgrade, got multiple of every other item, but no rare wyvern.
I'm NOT happy.

[/quote]

 

Those being the latest mount box, which cost $50 for 7. So he literally spent $1000 or so. And then later in the thread, he bought another 100 more.

 

And this is not a rarity in F2P games. I'm not saying it's common, exactly, but all games have a number of "whales" that do this. And ultimately, games get designed to take advantage of these people, which leaves regular people in the dirt.

And ultimately it is a mount, bar 15-20 mins on longer journeys you save by having a better mount (if it is better) you gain nothing and the above example only proves one thing: Fools are fast parted with their money, a fact keenly shown by the introduction of cash shops in P2P games so let us not dwell on things which have neither merit nor cause for concern for a F2P game preys no more or less on the fools than those that call themselves P2P (sorry for the overly dramatic way of saying it, I watched waaaay too much spartacus last night and am finding it difficult to part archaic forms from more modern ones, lack of sleep sees to that).

  Coated

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/05/09
Posts: 258

5/17/13 4:18:18 AM#3

This is no different than exploiting a person's addiction to gambling. The 'f2p' games that do extremely well add that gambling feature to their 'f2p' shop.

Example: A pack that gives 10-20 random items. 19 of those items are worthless and 1 is epic.

___________________________________________________________________________________

This really should be illegal in video games. Unfortunately, Laws have always been slow to take root when online issues are at hand. These games are really taking advantage of people and there is no other side to the story. I actually wish gamers would join together to bring these issues to the attention of law makers. Hopefully, one of these law makers sons will steal their dads credit card and run up 10,000 dollars plus on one of these games.

Luckily, gamers still get upset at 'Pay 2 win' games and will raise a voice/boycott if necessary. However, how long will this last? Already we are seeing more and more games adopt this 'f2p' attitude and even add in 'p2w' under peoples noses. I am really worried about the future that games are heading in. It isn't just in MMORPG's either. RTS, FPS, etc are all adopting this 'farmville' facebook strategy.

Rise up.

  Cod_Eye

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1008

5/17/13 4:18:55 AM#4
Originally posted by trancejeremy

Because some people will literally spend $1000s a month on a game:

 

http://atlantica.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F850528-Wyvern-to-rare-wyvern%26nxid%3D12

 

[quote]

Chance is incredibly low, my guess is around 0.1%.
I used 150+ boxes on the upgrade, got multiple of every other item, but no rare wyvern.
I'm NOT happy.

[/quote]

 

Those being the latest mount box, which cost $50 for 7. So he literally spent $1000 or so. And then later in the thread, he bought another 100 more.

 

And this is not a rarity in F2P games. I'm not saying it's common, exactly, but all games have a number of "whales" that do this. And ultimately, games get designed to take advantage of these people, which leaves regular people in the dirt.

Bet he is one of those anti P2P players that thinks paying a sub isnt worth it or says he can't afford it.   Players that spend vast amounts on gambling items bewilders me.

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1271

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/17/13 5:32:01 AM#5

I am pro f2p model because I am one of those people who does NOT spend.  But there are good f2p models and bad.  Good is purchasing mounts/pets/clothes/bottles/hair color with no time limits and no chance.  What you described here is repulsive, it exists, and it sickens me.  I still don't want to give up on a f2p model that is honest and true and designed to share their game with wealthy and poor alike.

 

A fool and his money are easily separated.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4070

5/17/13 5:37:27 AM#6
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

I am pro f2p model because I am one of those people who does NOT spend.  But there are good f2p models and bad.  Good is purchasing mounts/pets/clothes/bottles/hair color with no time limits and no chance.  What you described here is repulsive, it exists, and it sickens me.  I still don't want to give up on a f2p model that is honest and true and designed to share their game with wealthy and poor alike.

 

 

Well if everyone was like you and no one spent any money then there would be no f2p games as they would all get shutdown lol...

Let people do what they want with their cash... me i tend to only play games that have a sub..

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1271

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/17/13 5:44:01 AM#7
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

I am pro f2p model because I am one of those people who does NOT spend.  But there are good f2p models and bad.  Good is purchasing mounts/pets/clothes/bottles/hair color with no time limits and no chance.  What you described here is repulsive, it exists, and it sickens me.  I still don't want to give up on a f2p model that is honest and true and designed to share their game with wealthy and poor alike.

 

 

Well if everyone was like you and no one spent any money then there would be no f2p games as they would all get shutdown lol...

Let people do what they want with their cash... me i tend to only play games that have a sub..

 

What makes you think I have the money to spend?  Maybe I have a terminal illness that I have to pay a lot of money for my meds and can't afford much else.  Maybe I'm retired and on a budget.  Maybe I'm saving for an education.  There are a lot of reasons why some people cannot invest in entertainment.  And just as many reasons why some people can.  Some are wealthy and some are poor.  We can't all be equals in the market.  When everyone becomes poor the gaming industry will stop.  The electronic one.  We'll go back to what we did in medieval times for entertainment.  BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE GAMBLING IN YOUR F2P TO MAKE IT PROFIT.  Just make a good game.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

5/17/13 6:00:20 AM#8
Originally posted by trancejeremy

Because some people will literally spend $1000s a month on a game:

 

http://atlantica.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F850528-Wyvern-to-rare-wyvern%26nxid%3D12

 

[quote]

Chance is incredibly low, my guess is around 0.1%.
I used 150+ boxes on the upgrade, got multiple of every other item, but no rare wyvern.
I'm NOT happy.

[/quote]

 

Those being the latest mount box, which cost $50 for 7. So he literally spent $1000 or so. And then later in the thread, he bought another 100 more.

 

And this is not a rarity in F2P games. I'm not saying it's common, exactly, but all games have a number of "whales" that do this. And ultimately, games get designed to take advantage of these people, which leaves regular people in the dirt.

 

I think the strange thing is whats the point of a mount in Atlantica anyway if you have a teleportation license? players like to gamble its seems but don't understand that gambling is always in favour of the bookie. Though I would like to see the odds printed on the item for clarity Sports bookmakers, casinos, bingo halls have to do it so should gaming companies.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4070

5/17/13 6:10:49 AM#9
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

 

What makes you think I have the money to spend?  Maybe I have a terminal illness that I have to pay a lot of money for my meds and can't afford much else.  Maybe I'm retired and on a budget.  Maybe I'm saving for an education.  There are a lot of reasons why some people cannot invest in entertainment.  And just as many reasons why some people can.  Some are wealthy and some are poor.  We can't all be equals in the market.  When everyone becomes poor the gaming industry will stop.  The electronic one.  We'll go back to what we did in medieval times for entertainment.  BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE GAMBLING IN YOUR F2P TO MAKE IT PROFIT.  Just make a good game.

Not trying to be insensitive or anything to people with terminal illness but my point still stands you think you should get it all for free? If everyone thought like this then these games would not exist or they would be covered with advertising.. every time you kill a mob up pops an advert..

 

There is a company behind every f2p game that needs to make money as well as pay the wages and server running costs and other costs.. so yes they will try and make as much as possible as that is the reason they exist. Also at the end of the day you have a choice you don't have to pay with f2p games.

 

As for gambling in games.. well its just another way for a company to make a profit and i see now issues with it as long as people are made aware of what it is.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2666

5/17/13 6:53:23 AM#10
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

 

What makes you think I have the money to spend?  Maybe I have a terminal illness that I have to pay a lot of money for my meds and can't afford much else.  Maybe I'm retired and on a budget.  Maybe I'm saving for an education.  There are a lot of reasons why some people cannot invest in entertainment.  And just as many reasons why some people can.  Some are wealthy and some are poor.  We can't all be equals in the market.  When everyone becomes poor the gaming industry will stop.  The electronic one.  We'll go back to what we did in medieval times for entertainment.  BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE GAMBLING IN YOUR F2P TO MAKE IT PROFIT.  Just make a good game.

Not trying to be insensitive or anything to people with terminal illness but my point still stands you think you should get it all for free? If everyone thought like this then these games would not exist or they would be covered with advertising.. every time you kill a mob up pops an advert..

 

There is a company behind every f2p game that needs to make money as well as pay the wages and server running costs and other costs.. so yes they will try and make as much as possible as that is the reason they exist. Also at the end of the day you have a choice you don't have to pay with f2p games.

 

As for gambling in games.. well its just another way for a company to make a profit and i see now issues with it as long as people are made aware of what it is.

1. You pay for cable television yet are subjected to advertisement more than once during your viewing time, you should not use such examples lest they be used against you and to be more blunt: Trying not to be insensitive and not being insensitive is what you have comprehensively failed to do as simple logic will show with two arguments:

A) People can afford a gaming machine but not afford a monthly, how you may ask? Refurbished if they have enough money to pay for such or resorting to buying and using tech which is 2-3 generations out of date which can be found even new for cheap (we're talking 300-400 $ for a machine which can, barely, run most modern F2P games).

B) To deny anyone the entertainment you have for the most pitiful of sums imaginable based purely on whims is no better than to deny decent food or any other such life enriching but not necessary item. F2P done right harms no one and I've spent personally far too long looking at others having fun while the door remains locked bar for a monthly sub in my case and I will be the first to admit it that if I had any way of paying with my own time for the game (such as I am doing via plex with EVE-Online) I would in a heartbeat but in a great majority of games I cannot and seeing as how a physics bachelor with no work experience has about as much chance of getting a job as a man with a high-school diploma and no work experience I put aside what little money I do save up for the autumn when I will start my master's program. Not everyone likes freeloading in a game, do not further harshen their conscience by saddling them with the blame for the greed of others.

 

2.Kindly check a dictionary for the definition of the word "gambling", it is not the same as you use it.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10419

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/17/13 7:55:08 AM#11


Originally posted by trancejeremy
Because some people will literally spend $1000s a month on a game:

 

http://atlantica.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F850528-Wyvern-to-rare-wyvern%26nxid%3D12

 


Chance is incredibly low, my guess is around 0.1%.I used 150+ boxes on the upgrade, got multiple of every other item, but no rare wyvern.I'm NOT happy.


 

Those being the latest mount box, which cost $50 for 7. So he literally spent $1000 or so. And then later in the thread, he bought another 100 more.

 

And this is not a rarity in F2P games. I'm not saying it's common, exactly, but all games have a number of "whales" that do this. And ultimately, games get designed to take advantage of these people, which leaves regular people in the dirt.




How does that leave regular people in the dirt? This guy gets a Wyvern. Good for him. He spent thousands of dollars, he should get something nice for that. I don't think a Wyvern is worth it, but whatever, he should get something.

I know that stuff like this exists, but has anyone bothered with seeing how prevalent it is outside of anecdotal evidence? What about the difference between Western and Eastern MMO cash shops? No? So it's all anecdotes and stories then?

This isn't any better than someone saying they've spent nothing in F2P MMOs, so they must all be geared for people to spend nothing. The truth is somewhere in between. A cash shop has to be geared to that people who want to spend money can, in the amounts they want to spend. That means allowing people to spend thousands of dollars if they want, but also allowing someone to spend $5 if they want.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1271

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/17/13 9:02:15 AM#12
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

 

What makes you think I have the money to spend?  Maybe I have a terminal illness that I have to pay a lot of money for my meds and can't afford much else.  Maybe I'm retired and on a budget.  Maybe I'm saving for an education.  There are a lot of reasons why some people cannot invest in entertainment.  And just as many reasons why some people can.  Some are wealthy and some are poor.  We can't all be equals in the market.  When everyone becomes poor the gaming industry will stop.  The electronic one.  We'll go back to what we did in medieval times for entertainment.  BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE GAMBLING IN YOUR F2P TO MAKE IT PROFIT.  Just make a good game.

Not trying to be insensitive or anything to people with terminal illness but my point still stands you think you should get it all for free? If everyone thought like this then these games would not exist or they would be covered with advertising.. every time you kill a mob up pops an advert..

 

There is a company behind every f2p game that needs to make money as well as pay the wages and server running costs and other costs.. so yes they will try and make as much as possible as that is the reason they exist. Also at the end of the day you have a choice you don't have to pay with f2p games.

 

As for gambling in games.. well its just another way for a company to make a profit and i see now issues with it as long as people are made aware of what it is.

Yes.  I'm going to get it all for free!  I'm digging thru your garbage can right now.  Don't look out your window I'll smile at you and that's a very scary thing to see.  And I admit I love getting it for free on a thread bitching about someone spending to much on a game.  I have no conscience.

 

I have another point to point at.  If every game went f2p it would not be good for the little f2p game companies.  Most these cheesy mom and pop put together f2p's that promo luck and gambling would get swamped out of business by better models.  Not that I care either way.

  Edeus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/10
Posts: 513

5/17/13 10:02:59 AM#13
He can subsidize my free gaming anytime!

Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2754

5/17/13 10:16:09 AM#14
F2P games are the "Reality TV shows" of the MMO gaming world.
  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 590

5/17/13 10:30:22 AM#15

I was a 100% against P2P games, but now I'm only 60% against them. I've played quite a few games for free and most I don't enjoy so I just stop. The few I like I still play and I do pay a bit, but not over $15/mo. For me that's all win.

I don't like pay to win and I can see that being a problem. PS2 has some pay to win that I don't like. One of that parts of their system that I do really thing is great is the premium account. That speeds up your XP rate.

I really like a model that had say a 10% rate of XP for free, and a 100% rate for $15/mo. That gets more people into the game. It's like a free trial that's extended with no contract hassle. I like to add to that model with cosmetics like clothes and fancy gear that don't have any affect on gameplay, and I think the $15/mo people should be able to get the same good gear through work or if they want to pay.

My take on the gambling has always been that people should be able to control themselves and if you can't then that's tough for you. There's too many people out there that have real problems that they can't control for me to have sympathy toward someone that chooses the wrong path.

Asdar

  Sourajit

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/07
Posts: 386

Lets try it.

5/17/13 10:46:06 AM#16
Originally posted by trancejeremy

Because some people will literally spend $1000s a month on a game:

 

http://atlantica.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F850528-Wyvern-to-rare-wyvern%26nxid%3D12

 

[quote]

Chance is incredibly low, my guess is around 0.1%.
I used 150+ boxes on the upgrade, got multiple of every other item, but no rare wyvern.
I'm NOT happy.

[/quote]

 

Those being the latest mount box, which cost $50 for 7. So he literally spent $1000 or so. And then later in the thread, he bought another 100 more.

 

And this is not a rarity in F2P games. I'm not saying it's common, exactly, but all games have a number of "whales" that do this. And ultimately, games get designed to take advantage of these people, which leaves regular people in the dirt.

I would doubt on this one. Some F2P models are unique examples which do not need you to spend much. They only sell cosmetic items which no way matters to the gameplay. But then again majority of the F2P games are Pay To Win. The F2P model was initiated many years back by Anarchy Online (2003) where the major part of the game and it's learning curve was exposed to players around the world for free. That model however never had any cash shop or Pay To Win variants. Only a few expansions were sold. 

From those days till today much has changed. I still remember after playing the anarchy free to play part for a year or so, I had no doubt to buy the subscription or the expansion. The game literally grew on me and it lasted another 3 years before it went a bit boring. 

In recent times however I see that al the F2P models come with a cash shop where some directly modify the power of your character inside the game. (Selling Bag Space / Mounts / Gear are a bit harsh to be honest to begin with) This in turn does a bit of surge in the player base but then again this same player base which is not willing to spend tons of cash on their mmo move to another game. 

After checking out Rift and it's cash shop or playing Aion for a year almost, I still think if the F2P model is done well and it has occasional items which increases your character's power within the game then players are still wiling to spend a bit of cash to continue with a good content.

All said and done this F2P model will always have it's exploiters in the mmo industry (Neverwinter). I wish most big titles would do something like Anarchy Online or Dungeons and Dragons and make this F2P model not looked down as another real life money sink to begin with.

Cheers
Sourajit Nandi

" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "

Once An Addict Always An Addict .

  Jalitan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/06
Posts: 79

5/17/13 11:59:56 AM#17
I am shocked that people think entertainment is some sort of right. Paid entertainment mediums have been and will always be a luxury. Just like jewelry. The only entertainment you are entitled to is the one you can afford.
  BlueTiger33

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 169

5/17/13 12:06:14 PM#18

Because of our economy and the general lack of money amongst gamers. That's the only real reason.

 

The new nickel and dime (pay for what you want) tactics though in mmo's that give an advantage is making me happy to spend the cash.

 

If you have spending cash it means you have ... cash to spend. ;-) If you buy things that don't better yourself in anyway it's a bad investment.

 

I'll be changing my sig here soon already got a new twist.


I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

5/17/13 12:08:25 PM#19
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

I am pro f2p model because I am one of those people who does NOT spend.  But there are good f2p models and bad.  Good is purchasing mounts/pets/clothes/bottles/hair color with no time limits and no chance.  What you described here is repulsive, it exists, and it sickens me.  I still don't want to give up on a f2p model that is honest and true and designed to share their game with wealthy and poor alike.

 

 

Well if everyone was like you and no one spent any money then there would be no f2p games as they would all get shutdown lol...

Let people do what they want with their cash... me i tend to only play games that have a sub..

 

We can count on the whales. They are a verified fact.

I tend to only play games that are F2P. If whales want to fund games for us, why should i refuse?

  BlueTiger33

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 169

5/17/13 12:12:22 PM#20
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Caldrin
Originally posted by Jemcrystal

I am pro f2p model because I am one of those people who does NOT spend.  But there are good f2p models and bad.  Good is purchasing mounts/pets/clothes/bottles/hair color with no time limits and no chance.  What you described here is repulsive, it exists, and it sickens me.  I still don't want to give up on a f2p model that is honest and true and designed to share their game with wealthy and poor alike.

 

 

Well if everyone was like you and no one spent any money then there would be no f2p games as they would all get shutdown lol...

Let people do what they want with their cash... me i tend to only play games that have a sub..

 

We can count on the whales. They are a verified fact.

I tend to only play games that are F2P. If whales want to fund games for us, why should i refuse?

 

Exactly. You being a freep and enjoying your status. I wish we had more like you. If I'm going to be providing your entertainment I better get some stuffs that sets me apart from you...like increased gear or experience. Which all the games provide.

 

I have no problem anymore with freeps. I realize they are a neccessary burden and makes my cash just that much more valuable hopefully eventually leading to more and more gears for ma money. :)


I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog

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