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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » #19 Question Everything; Sub Models (lets talk about CEX)

16 posts found
  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2096

joie de vivre

 
OP  5/16/13 10:36:05 AM#1

New blog up about sub models. I offer 4 potential solutions for CU. 1 is a little BSC 1 is very BSC. Essentially I feel FTP is jumping the shark, $15 a month does not fit a diverse group of aged gamers like us, and CU can use the Kickstarter tiers as a base model for making a sub system that works for everyone. If you wanna skip the ranting, just go to the bottom of the blog, read the 4 ideas, and let me know what you think.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas/052013/25117_19-Question-Everything-Sub-Models-lets-talk-about-CEX

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

5/16/13 11:03:34 AM#2

I dunno, Tierless... I think the basic sub model DOES fit old-timers like us.  I was raised on a basic sub model with UO, AO, DAoC, etc.  I've no problem at all ponying up a couple bucks a month to play a game I like with people of a like mind.  I also think a monthly fee would keep "tourists" out, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

And I believe MJ said the fee would be less than $15/mo.

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

5/16/13 11:16:28 AM#3

We know according to Mark that CU will have a monthly sub fee and that it will be less than the $14.95/month that is standard. The idea of daily or hourly rates is intriguing but probably requires too much customer service ("your game says I used up my subscription but I only played 25 of the 30 hours I bought...") for a small company like CSE.

I think option 3 is the way to go. I'm thinking the different sub prices could come with different caps on level, crafting level, and perhaps gold. For instance $4.95/month gives you a cap of level 30 (let's say that's equivalent to realm rank 3 in DAOC) with similar caps on crafting and gold. That would make sense for very casual players who are unlikely to play a single character enough to get higher than that. They could still play a level capped toon but it would not gain any xp under that sub plan. Then for $9.95/month you'd get a level 60 cap and for $12.95/month you'd get no caps.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2096

joie de vivre

 
OP  5/16/13 11:16:32 AM#4

I'm totally down with a sub model, I just think it can be improves on using the same system the Kickstarter used for tiers. Also, CEX, my CEX option is kinda BSC, but I think it would create war like we have never seen in an MMO.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/16/13 11:23:54 AM#5
Pay per day isn't that hard
You pay a sub
Every 24 hour you don't play they extend the deadline for the next sub, just like mmos do with server outages.
  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

5/16/13 11:26:59 AM#6
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Pay per day isn't that hard
You pay a sub
Every 24 hour you don't play they extend the deadline for the next sub, just like mmos do with server outages.

Hmm yeah that's true. Weekly subs might be a good option.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  TigsKC

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 139

5/16/13 11:48:23 AM#7

Systems design is like scientific theorycraft.  The most simple option is normally the best.

I would opt for a monthly subscription schedule of fees like this:

  • $10 per 1 month of service
  • $51 per 6 months of service
  • $84 per 12 months of service
Innovative, no.  Simple, yes.
 
I would be concerned that more complex systems are more difficult to support, manage and communicate clearly.
 
My two cents.
 
PS:  Tierless, keep those blogs coming!
  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

5/16/13 3:24:48 PM#8

What if CSE went really old school and charged monthly based on the number of hours used during the month?  They could either add up the hours logged on and bill at the end of the month, or you could select a plan with some number of hours at the beginning of the month like a cell phone plan.  For the second option they could offer the following (after all months of free sub have expired of course):

$2 for up to 20 hours

$3 / 40

$4 / 60

$5 / 90

$6 / 120

$7 / 150

$8 / 200

$9 / 300

$10 / unlimited

I'm assuming CSE is currently planning to charge $10 for a monthly sub, which is de facto unlimited.

 

  Schurge

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 7

5/16/13 5:39:44 PM#9

My vote is always a standard monthly sub.

This game as Mark already hinted at should definitely cost less per month then other games because it is purely PvP and ideally we can get some casual-PvPers to sub to this along side their PvE MMO for their PvP fix. If the sub price is the full $15 it is less likely we can get people to justify subbing to two MMOs when they will only be playing this one part time. It can't be to low though. Ten dollars a month would be almost a year before they recoup their losses and could start expanding.

I know GW2 is going to make a lot of people say that this game should be B2P but realistically this game won't sell enough boxes for B2P to be profitable. Mark Jacobs is aiming for 50,000 subs that would only be 2.5 million dollars worth of boxes. Not to mention most of us backers are getting a free copy of the game.

Never free-2-play or hybrid free-2-play ever. If Mark Jacobs ends up turning the combat system into something I don't like and I quit the game in beta I can live with that and won't regret my donation because at least I helped steer MMOs to a better tomorrow. But if it launches as free-2-play I will demand my $250 dollars back because nothing good can come of that.

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 404

5/17/13 2:02:24 AM#10

I dont think a sub is a bad option for a niche game, as long as the game does what its supposed too and is good quality people will be fine with it. EVE is pretty much proof of this, most other niche MMOs are simply poor quality to the point you're just subbing to beta test.

F2P is more of an option for MMOs with a lot of competition, ie EQ/WoW clones. Theres a large market of players that hop between those games, so it make sense for those games to not only make that easier but also to capitalize on the peeks of interest. 

  Scrat^ITA

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/05
Posts: 17

5/17/13 5:08:20 AM#11
I know I'm so old-school... I'm for a standard monthly sub. I just believe the actual fee should be less then what is now standard, like 9.99$/mo, no discount for 3-6-12 months, just 9.99 and that's it.

Tusken Raiders - Your Italian Guild on Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

5/17/13 4:52:58 PM#12
Originally posted by Schurge

My vote is always a standard monthly sub.

This game as Mark already hinted at should definitely cost less per month then other games because it is purely PvP and ideally we can get some casual-PvPers to sub to this along side their PvE MMO for their PvP fix. If the sub price is the full $15 it is less likely we can get people to justify subbing to two MMOs when they will only be playing this one part time. It can't be to low though. Ten dollars a month would be almost a year before they recoup their losses and could start expanding.

I know GW2 is going to make a lot of people say that this game should be B2P but realistically this game won't sell enough boxes for B2P to be profitable. Mark Jacobs is aiming for 50,000 subs that would only be 2.5 million dollars worth of boxes. Not to mention most of us backers are getting a free copy of the game.

Never free-2-play or hybrid free-2-play ever. If Mark Jacobs ends up turning the combat system into something I don't like and I quit the game in beta I can live with that and won't regret my donation because at least I helped steer MMOs to a better tomorrow. But if it launches as free-2-play I will demand my $250 dollars back because nothing good can come of that.

I can't imagine the sub exceeding $10 per month at launch, but even at that, someone who is already subbing another game will have to weigh the cost of the sub versus the time they expect to play.  A scaled plan like the one I proposed would help draw a lot more of those dual-gamers who are splitting time.  I was actually thinking of the casual gamer who plays only one game, but doesn't have a lot of time for even that, when I created my scaled plan.  I'll be dropping my current game when IT starts, due to time constraints.

I would expect CU to have a purchase price (for those who aren't backers) which will help recoup some of the development costs.  At $35 for the digital download (with a one month sub) with 50,000 total (not peak) accounts then they will pick up $1.225M of the $3M the investors put up.  If they then retain 30,000 subs for one year at $10 per month that is another $1.8M (assuming all backers have at least one year free, which I know they don't) and they now are just over break even.  I expect, and I'd wager MJ does too, that there will be more than 50,000 sales.  He said something like 10x the number of pre-orders is the best estimate of a game's sales, in one interview I saw, and he anticipates the KS to be like a pre-order in terms of total sales.  If that holds true, then he expects about 135,000 downloads / boxes, beyond the backers.  At that number, they break even at $23, assuming no marketing costs, so figure at least $30 per copy, and more likely higher than that, but then they break even once all the copies have sold and can use all the sub money for server maintenance, improvements and development of expansions, minus whatever return they have to pay to investors.

I agree, F2P must never be considered.  If WAR can still be running with a sub (after rank 20), CU can go five years with no F2P or P2W.  If it is as good as I expect, it should last a lot longer than that.

C U in the Veil.

Lawt

  raykor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 326

5/17/13 11:02:46 PM#13
Originally posted by Scrat^ITA
I know I'm so old-school... I'm for a standard monthly sub. I just believe the actual fee should be less then what is now standard, like 9.99$/mo, no discount for 3-6-12 months, just 9.99 and that's it.

This is what I would like to see.

  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 590

5/18/13 6:02:51 AM#14

I'm for standard, but a model I do like is standard mixed with a free version that has an XP limiter.

10% XP for free, 100% for $15/mo That lets the population build up but anyone serious will want to pay.

Asdar

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2096

joie de vivre

 
OP  5/19/13 9:51:02 AM#15

I would also like to see sub packages for Couples, Families, and Guilds.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Benthon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 2132

Even if you can't hear me, you're still wrong.

5/21/13 6:58:11 PM#16
I've personally never gone back to a free-to-play game I've quit. I'm an old time EQ player and was always fond of the subscription model as the customer is more invested in their purchase to make the best of it. I hope this game follows suit.

He who keeps his cool best wins.