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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » Best tank for end game?

13 posts found
  freejackmack

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 374

 
OP  5/11/13 9:38:00 PM#1

Yeah I bought the collectors addition box when it came out and got to like 18 with my main and threw the box set dvd and all in the trash and burned it. True story.

It should have been crowd founded because so many people wanted it to continue being developed. If there was a pvp island or something with castles it would have been great. They did have pvp later and totally screwed it up by globally throwing pvp into the game that was not designed properly for it. 

I hate SOE and their idiot Department Heads that do not get game development and seem to hate video games and gamers!

That said I have been messing around with the f2p version which has better xp rate, less bugs (though i fell though the world 3 times the first day back & got suck like 4 times{/unstuck yes}) and really have been addicted though not sure i will return I have 2 questions:

  1) Can you play the diplomacy with other people now? I love this little card game feature, always have, but it seems kinda worthless if I can not beat others and brag and generally joke about how I crush them or how they crush me at diplomacy. Much needed feature along with a proper PVP island with castle building feature imo. It's a disappointment they did not keep going with this.

  2) What is the best end game raid tank class?

  3) I should ask what is the best end game raid healer is as well while I'm at it.

TY in advance. I hate game forums and this community is much bigger that's why I asked here.

And what the hell do you do with a boat? Nothing that's what. TY SOE for being giant bone heads and generally sucking at developing games.

  sylentnyte

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/27/05
Posts: 57

5/12/13 3:28:23 PM#2
There is some strenghts and weaknesses like pally is probably the best single target tank. Warriors are great for ae tanking. But Pally, War, or DK can tank every raid mob in the game. not a giant diffrence. I'd just play what appeals to you.
  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3252

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/13/13 5:03:56 AM#3

Well, first of all - tanks are ALL *VERY* gear dependent in Vanguard. Dont play them on a freemium account or you'll be highly frustrated because blue gear just wont cut it and anything else will get mighty expensive quickly.

I play a DK and I wouldnt want to switch. Good dps output, a kickass area lifetap, a helpful pet at level 51, invisibility to bypass opponents, and the last class in the game that has an AoE attack thats not limited in respect to number of opponents that get hit. Just awesome.

War is best single target aggro. They have temporary buffs that allow to go beyond cap, such as for Mitigation. But they are the worst solist class - I would recomment making sure you have a second computer, and level a Cleric or Bear Shaman on that one for the buffs and healing. But you dont need to be a full second account, just get a free one. And get a cheap computer and run Vanguard on minimum settings. All you want to do on that account is /follow on your main and throw him a heal whenever they need it.

Pal is the area aggro guy. They also get true fear immunity (DK only gets a fake version that doesnt work on raidbosses). All in all the best of the tanks, except Pal is of course the lowest dps and handling multiple opponents solo is actually no fun because its troublesome to get healing spells off this way.

In the sum, just like with every other class, play what you enjoy playing.

 

  Dirkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 78

5/13/13 12:05:01 PM#4
Originally posted by Adamantine

Well, first of all - tanks are ALL *VERY* gear dependent in Vanguard. Dont play them on a freemium account or you'll be highly frustrated because blue gear just wont cut it and anything else will get mighty expensive quickly.

I play a DK and I wouldnt want to switch. Good dps output, a kickass area lifetap, a helpful pet at level 51, invisibility to bypass opponents, and the last class in the game that has an AoE attack thats not limited in respect to number of opponents that get hit. Just awesome.

War is best single target aggro. They have temporary buffs that allow to go beyond cap, such as for Mitigation. But they are the worst solist class - I would recomment making sure you have a second computer, and level a Cleric or Bear Shaman on that one for the buffs and healing. But you dont need to be a full second account, just get a free one. And get a cheap computer and run Vanguard on minimum settings. All you want to do on that account is /follow on your main and throw him a heal whenever they need it.

Pal is the area aggro guy. They also get true fear immunity (DK only gets a fake version that doesnt work on raidbosses). All in all the best of the tanks, except Pal is of course the lowest dps and handling multiple opponents solo is actually no fun because its troublesome to get healing spells off this way.

In the sum, just like with every other class, play what you enjoy playing.

 

 

I wouldn't quite go so far as to say you NEED a gold account, but tanks do tend to be kind of gear dependent as they get into the higher levels. You'll probably have to unlock a good few things once you get higher as a f2p.

Your DK account is pretty accurate, but you kind of have the Warrior and Paladin flipped a little. Paladins are really the best single target tank, and Warriors are the best AE aggro tanks.

Paladins do get an AE force taunt, where warriors don't, but once that is expended the paladin has no real way of generating AE hate, whereas the warrior has an AE taunt and several AE attacks. Your description of their soloing capabilities is accurate though, warriors are terrible at it.

And for single target, Paladins get a lot more net "Oh Shi-" abilities like invulns and stuff. All the tanks can tank just fine, and warriors are very sturdy as are DKs, but they lack the assortment of tools that a Paladin has. Paladins can also hold much better hate on a single mob than any other tank if they choose to burn through their virtue pool. That virtue pool is limited, however, so they can't just do that all the time.

Oh, and DK fear immunity does work on raid bosses.

Just some quick clarifications, otherwise you're pretty much correct.

  MMOman101

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1191

5/13/13 12:26:16 PM#5

Never played end game.  I did try some different tanking classes Pally and DK were easier to level, for me. 

As stated the nice thing about Pally is they get some abilities that allow you save yourself if things go wrong.  From my pug experience things tend to go wrong and having the ability to save yourself is huge. 

There is one race that gets a nice warrior ability, I forget which race though. 

The one thing about Vanguard, at least when I played, is that leveling is a lot slower than a lot of MMOs so I would say focus on the journey over endgame.  If you take a class you don't like leveling you may never hit endgame. 

  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3252

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/14/13 1:29:23 AM#6
Originally posted by Dirkin

Oh, and DK fear immunity does work on raid bosses.

It definitely doesnt. I was highly disappointed about it, too.

You're correct, I accidentaly flipped Paladin and Warrior in their respective aggro strengths.

DK gets an AoE force, too, and they can use their area attacks for some decent area aggro. Worked pretty well for me.

 

Originally posted by MMOman101

Never played end game.  I did try some different tanking classes Pally and DK were easier to level, for me. 

As stated the nice thing about Pally is they get some abilities that allow you save yourself if things go wrong.  From my pug experience things tend to go wrong and having the ability to save yourself is huge. 

There is one race that gets a nice warrior ability, I forget which race though. 

The one thing about Vanguard, at least when I played, is that leveling is a lot slower than a lot of MMOs so I would say focus on the journey over endgame.  If you take a class you don't like leveling you may never hit endgame. 

Um, I had all kinds of PUGs with my DK. The only group healer going down ? Well, I love being a DK *starts to area lifetap*. I know Pal has some pretty freaky stuff, too, and it already works if you're not that well equipped. But a well geared DK is just awesome. The aggro goes down if you start to area lifetap and stuff, though. Paladin aggro obviously goes up when he burns through his Virtue points.

There is no limit to races you can take with any class anymore. Thank god. I wanted this since release.

Well, if I would make a Warrior, I would definitely chose Varanjar. Their race ability gives them some sweet extra dps in raids. Always nice to have.

In general the Qaliathari is the race choice for tanks, though. Another 10 sec invul, how would one top that one.

 

  Dirkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 78

5/14/13 11:27:15 AM#7
Originally posted by Adamantine
Originally posted by Dirkin

Oh, and DK fear immunity does work on raid bosses.

It definitely doesnt. I was highly disappointed about it, too.

 

It does, however, I have seen the fear immunities bug out occasionally, often after the player has crashed or something. I've seen paladins get feared as well when stuff like this happens, but it's usually pretty infrequent.

I can tell you that the new DK fear immunity does indeed work on raid bosses though, like Arachnidon Sunshine. No idea who/where you've raided, but the spider is a higher end raid target, level 59, and our DK tanked him just fine the other day, without getting feared. I suppose it's possible that the devs missed a few things when they put the DK fear immunity in, since it was relatively recent, but as far as I know it should be working. Any instance where it isn't blocking fear is more likely a not working as intended situation than anything.

  csthao

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/07/06
Posts: 1081

5/14/13 9:02:55 PM#8
Originally posted by Adamantine
Originally posted by Dirkin

Oh, and DK fear immunity does work on raid bosses.

It definitely doesnt. I was highly disappointed about it, too.

You're correct, I accidentaly flipped Paladin and Warrior in their respective aggro strengths.

DK gets an AoE force, too, and they can use their area attacks for some decent area aggro. Worked pretty well for me.

 

Originally posted by MMOman101

Never played end game.  I did try some different tanking classes Pally and DK were easier to level, for me. 

As stated the nice thing about Pally is they get some abilities that allow you save yourself if things go wrong.  From my pug experience things tend to go wrong and having the ability to save yourself is huge. 

There is one race that gets a nice warrior ability, I forget which race though. 

The one thing about Vanguard, at least when I played, is that leveling is a lot slower than a lot of MMOs so I would say focus on the journey over endgame.  If you take a class you don't like leveling you may never hit endgame. 

Um, I had all kinds of PUGs with my DK. The only group healer going down ? Well, I love being a DK *starts to area lifetap*. I know Pal has some pretty freaky stuff, too, and it already works if you're not that well equipped. But a well geared DK is just awesome. The aggro goes down if you start to area lifetap and stuff, though. Paladin aggro obviously goes up when he burns through his Virtue points.

There is no limit to races you can take with any class anymore. Thank god. I wanted this since release.

Well, if I would make a Warrior, I would definitely chose Varanjar. Their race ability gives them some sweet extra dps in raids. Always nice to have.

In general the Qaliathari is the race choice for tanks, though. Another 10 sec invul, how would one top that one.

 

Qaliathari's may have a 10 sec invul buff, but if you're looking at tanking race, I would recommend Half Giant or Orc. Why? because their racial stats will give you MUCH more str and con in the end game. You're looking at a VERY big difference in stats at level 50 without any gear. Its been proven, also before engaging in any raid targets i think it was a paladin or cleric that usually casts a 5sec invul buff to tanks anyway.

Half Giant STR caps out at 6 and CON at 7

Orc STR caps out at 7 and CON at 6

Qalianthari Human STR caps out at 5 and CON at 5

So compared to a Half Giant you're losing 8 HP (1 CON = 4 HP) per level.

And ORC 4 HP per level.

So from level 10-50 (40 x 7 = 280 CON x 4 HP = 1120 total hp gain)  as a Half Giant

Orc would be 960 HP

Qalianthari Human would be 800 HP

That's just all coming from ATTRIBUTE points and not adding starting attributes from your  race. Its a complicated process to add in all the stats with the limited amount of time I have. But you should get the idea. If you really wanna compare stats you can go to this website here for more information.


http://www.thetelonproject.com/attribute-points

  Dirkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 78

5/15/13 2:31:42 AM#9
Originally posted by csthao

Qaliathari's may have a 10 sec invul buff, but if you're looking at tanking race, I would recommend Half Giant or Orc. Why? because their racial stats will give you MUCH more str and con in the end game. You're looking at a VERY big difference in stats at level 50 without any gear. Its been proven, also before engaging in any raid targets i think it was a paladin or cleric that usually casts a 5sec invul buff to tanks anyway.

Half Giant STR caps out at 6 and CON at 7

Orc STR caps out at 7 and CON at 6

Qalianthari Human STR caps out at 5 and CON at 5

So compared to a Half Giant you're losing 8 HP (1 CON = 4 HP) per level.

And ORC 4 HP per level.

So from level 10-50 (40 x 7 = 280 CON x 4 HP = 1120 total hp gain)  as a Half Giant

Orc would be 960 HP

Qalianthari Human would be 800 HP

That's just all coming from ATTRIBUTE points and not adding starting attributes from your  race. Its a complicated process to add in all the stats with the limited amount of time I have. But you should get the idea. If you really wanna compare stats you can go to this website here for more information.


http://www.thetelonproject.com/attribute-points

 

The various racial abilities can count for a lot. Lesser Giants tend to go WAY over the hard cap on strength though, wasting a lot of it.

  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3252

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/15/13 3:30:15 AM#10
Originally posted by Dirkin
Originally posted by Adamantine
Originally posted by Dirkin

Oh, and DK fear immunity does work on raid bosses.

It definitely doesnt. I was highly disappointed about it, too.

 

It does, however, I have seen the fear immunities bug out occasionally, often after the player has crashed or something. I've seen paladins get feared as well when stuff like this happens, but it's usually pretty infrequent.

I can tell you that the new DK fear immunity does indeed work on raid bosses though, like Arachnidon Sunshine. No idea who/where you've raided, but the spider is a higher end raid target, level 59, and our DK tanked him just fine the other day, without getting feared. I suppose it's possible that the devs missed a few things when they put the DK fear immunity in, since it was relatively recent, but as far as I know it should be working. Any instance where it isn't blocking fear is more likely a not working as intended situation than anything.

It would be great if it works at least on Arachnidon Sunshine. I havent tried that boss yet, though. It definitely didnt worked on Kotasoth when I tried him.

 

  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3252

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/15/13 3:36:46 AM#11
Originally posted by csthao

Qaliathari's may have a 10 sec invul buff, but if you're looking at tanking race, I would recommend Half Giant or Orc. Why? because their racial stats will give you MUCH more str and con in the end game.

Strength (and Intelligence) are worthless in endgame, because with raid buffs and raid gear that will cap anyway. So even races without any bonus at all are golden in this respect.

Really all other stats are more worthwhile in the endgame.

Extra Con though NEVER caps. Thus Dwarves will always have the upper hand in the HP department. They have a very crappistic racial though. Has any dwarf ever used their racial at all for anything ?

Same with the +2 MIT racial of large races. Capped anyway, so meh.

My Darkelf Sorcerer (+2 Int) is in crap gear,and I've already seen her reaching cap with Int.

All this doesnt compare to the ability of another invuln in a raid situation. I use this ability all the time.

 

  Dirkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 78

5/15/13 1:23:41 PM#12
There is a hard cap for all attributes, 18x level. So at max level the hard cap for all attributes is 990. Strength and Int are not worthless, they are just much easier to cap because of available buffs, so many folks will give them lower priority when allocating attribute points. Con caps at 990 the same as the rest, but you don't get quite as much from buffs, so it's harder to cap.
  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3252

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/21/13 4:04:00 AM#13

Of course Strength and Intelligence themselves arent worthless. Its just worthless to play a +2 or +3 race for them, because its really nothing that matters in raids. It only helps during levelup or in normal groups. Normal meaning not raid buffed, because there is of course some content that needs raid buffage.

I've been told Constitution doesnt cap. Since I dont play any +Con races - all these races are just too intolerably ugly - I cant report anything about that myself.

The Qaliathari racial is uber. Saved my butt countless times. At all levels.