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Hardware  » Advice please. Any help would be appreciated!

12 posts found
  Blazeyer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 471

:)

 
OP  5/12/13 9:26:47 PM#1

Hi,

Currently these are the important system specs:

ASRock X58 Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157163&nm_mc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-

EVGA 012-P3-1472-AR GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) SuperClocked 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130549&nm_mc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-

Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225&nm_mc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-

Currently my GPU has a problem (as most gtx 470's do) of getting very hot. Hot as in... as I'm typing this it's maybe 68f. in my room and it's running at 65% fan speed with temp of 65c. on a 30% usage (according to msi). I can run everything I want without issue, but my card easily heats up to the 90+c with 85-95 % fan speed. I have cleaned my case (antec 900) of dust countless times, added a side panel fan, and moved the wires around to allow for better airflow. Nothing makes much of a difference. I understand that my card is built and meant to run at high temps, but I also feel as if I had something in 2010 that could push the card I would have been able to RMA it due to these temps. This isn't something that's happened out of nowhere, the card has always been like this. I am worried though that my card will soon give way as it's showing it's age.

 

I could probably afford a GPU around $200 if anyone has any suggestions. I'm currently unable to upgrade anything else along with this in my machine at the current time though. I'm asking for help with this because I'm unsure as to what GPUs out there would be a good fit for my system. I also am unsure as to the compatability of the newer PCI 3.0 GPU's with a PCI 2.0 mobo as I have. Would they work?

 

Thanks in advance guys!

  Aori

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 1791

5/13/13 12:00:42 AM#2

If you haven't overvolted your card or have it running at 100% 24/7 it is probably fine. Those Fermi cards have always had heat issues, if you're not getting lock ups, freezes, color distortion, black screens or artifacts.. I'd personally wait until you need a new card.

 

Either way for $200, a 7850 is lower price or you can get a 7870 right at your budget. Anything NVidia for 200 is a waste of money. If your system can handle a 470 then either of those cards will be fine, 3.0 and 2.0 PCIE are compatible.

 

Edit: How warm is your room the PC is in? Try taking the side of the case off, keep the pc at ground level. Use an external fan to suck air out of the case if its to hot inside it or use a smaller one to blow cooler air in. Just make sure the external fan isn't overpowering the other fans, it can screw up their bearings if you're going to point a fan inside the case.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

5/13/13 8:26:36 AM#3

Think of it this way:

GPU temperature = (room temperature) + (internal case temperature - room temperature) + (GPU temperature - internal case temperature)

That's axiomatically true, but arranges things that way for clarity.  Think of it as the first one is your responsibility, the second is the responsibility of your case, and the third is the responsibility of the video card heatsink and fan.  If any of the three components are especially large, then the video card gets undesirably hot and probably noisy.  The problem with the reference GeForce GTX 470 (and GTX 480) is that the third component is unreasonably large, which is why I've consistently recommended against buying one.

If the card seems to work just fine but merely gets unreasonably hot and noisy, then it's a question of whether the heat and noise bothers you.  If not, then you could just use the card until it dies and then replace it.  If it is a problem for you, then the card's performance is roughly Radeon HD 7790 territory.  Either of these would be a modest upgrade, and not really enough to justify upgrading on performance alone:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127699

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404

They should, however, run a lot quieter and cooler.  The 7870 is a little more expensive than the GTX 660, but also a little faster.  If you'll do the rebate, then the GTX 660 is probably the better deal.

 

  Blazeyer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 471

:)

 
OP  5/14/13 3:40:02 PM#4
Originally posted by Quizzical

Think of it this way:

GPU temperature = (room temperature) + (internal case temperature - room temperature) + (GPU temperature - internal case temperature)

That's axiomatically true, but arranges things that way for clarity.  Think of it as the first one is your responsibility, the second is the responsibility of your case, and the third is the responsibility of the video card heatsink and fan.  If any of the three components are especially large, then the video card gets undesirably hot and probably noisy.  The problem with the reference GeForce GTX 470 (and GTX 480) is that the third component is unreasonably large, which is why I've consistently recommended against buying one.

If the card seems to work just fine but merely gets unreasonably hot and noisy, then it's a question of whether the heat and noise bothers you.  If not, then you could just use the card until it dies and then replace it.  If it is a problem for you, then the card's performance is roughly Radeon HD 7790 territory.  Either of these would be a modest upgrade, and not really enough to justify upgrading on performance alone:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127699

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404

They should, however, run a lot quieter and cooler.  The 7870 is a little more expensive than the GTX 660, but also a little faster.  If you'll do the rebate, then the GTX 660 is probably the better deal.

 

I'll probably end up going with an NVIDIA card due to personal taste and the physx support. I'm curious though as to the difference in a 660 and 660ti. Is it worth the extra price to get the ti? I've read (in this forum) that the 660 is actually the worst gpu for the price. I just want to see if it's worth moving up to the ti.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

5/14/13 4:02:54 PM#5

Internally, they're two totally different GPU chips, though they are the same architecture.  The GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 660 Ti have the same memory bandwidth.  The former has 5 SMXes and the latter has 7, so the GTX 660 Ti has substantially more GPU power in the GPU chip itself.  But if you take a GTX 660 that is already significantly constrained by memory bandwidth and add two more SMXes, you don't necessarily get nearly as big of a performance boost as you were hoping for, as you might just have extra hardware that is also waiting on video memory.

The GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 660 Ti each have three memory channels.  The GTX 660 Ti basically exists as a way for Nvidia to get rid of GK104 dies with a defective memory channel; the GTX 670 is nearly the same thing but with all four memory channels active.  For comparison, the Radeon HD 7870 (nearest AMD analog to the GTX 660) has 4 memory channels, and the Radeon HD 7950 has 6, and is typically priced about the same as a GTX 660 Ti.

  Blazeyer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 471

:)

 
OP  5/14/13 4:13:01 PM#6
Originally posted by Quizzical

Internally, they're two totally different GPU chips, though they are the same architecture.  The GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 660 Ti have the same memory bandwidth.  The former has 5 SMXes and the latter has 7, so the GTX 660 Ti has substantially more GPU power in the GPU chip itself.  But if you take a GTX 660 that is already significantly constrained by memory bandwidth and add two more SMXes, you don't necessarily get nearly as big of a performance boost as you were hoping for, as you might just have extra hardware that is also waiting on video memory.

The GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 660 Ti each have three memory channels.  The GTX 660 Ti basically exists as a way for Nvidia to get rid of GK104 dies with a defective memory channel; the GTX 670 is nearly the same thing but with all four memory channels active.  For comparison, the Radeon HD 7870 (nearest AMD analog to the GTX 660) has 4 memory channels, and the Radeon HD 7950 has 6, and is typically priced about the same as a GTX 660 Ti.

So what you're saying is, if I'm going to upgrade (to a gtx card) go for the 660 Ti? And this will still work fine with my current cpu set up that was in the OP?

 

 

Much appreciated for the great explanation!

 

edit:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121656

comes to $270 after applying the code (not including the $20 rebate).

this looks like a great card^?

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

5/14/13 4:45:18 PM#7

You have that backwards.  The GeForce GTX 660 Ti is usually way overpriced for what you get.  A Radeon HD 7950 Boost is much faster for about the same price.  This GTX 660 Ti is actually a decent value today:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133466

But that's the first time I've seen a decent price on a GeForce GTX 660 Ti in quite some time.

A GeForce GTX 660 Ti is somewhat faster than a GeForce GTX 660, but the speed advantage is nowhere near the ~50% price hike to get the GTX 660 Ti, so I wouldn't.  A GeForce GTX 670 is faster yet, as it has the fourth memory channel, but also more expensive.

With Nvidia's recent price cuts on the GTX 660, performance per dollar goes way down if you try to get any Nvidia card faster than a GTX 660.

The basic price problem with the GTX 660 Ti is that Nvidia doesn't have that many chips that need to go into that bin, so they don't need to price them reasonably to clear inventory.  So they don't.  There seem to be so many Nvidia fanboys who recommend the GTX 660 Ti in particular--which has long been the worst value for the money among modern cards in the $100-$400 price range--that I wonder if some of them are viral marketers or some such.

If you get a GeForce GTX 660 or GTX 660 Ti, you should also be aware that the mismatched memory channels mean that if you use over 1.5 GB of video memory, you lose a lot of memory bandwidth.  For cards that are already strapped for memory bandwidth, this is a problem.  While the cards do have 2 GB of physical video memory, one way to look at it is to regard them as 1.5 GB cards with the last 512 MB attached for reasons of marketing rather than engineering.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

5/14/13 4:48:22 PM#8
Originally posted by Blazeyer

Much appreciated for the great explanation!

 

edit:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121656

comes to $270 after applying the code (not including the $20 rebate).

this looks like a great card^?

That particular GTX 660 Ti is way overpriced.  You can get a far superior Radeon HD 7950 Boost for exactly the same price:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202026

  McPickle

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 39

5/14/13 4:56:28 PM#9

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4501123&Sku=E145-0650

Thats a solid uprade to your card at 1/2 to a 3rd of the price of the other links. But the 660ti is way better than the crapeon I wouldn't listen to that. I could post why ( i own both) but why take my word for it when It's the leading selling card on tiger.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13426

5/14/13 5:07:38 PM#10
Originally posted by McPickle

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4501123&Sku=E145-0650

Thats a solid uprade to your card at 1/2 to a 3rd of the price of the other links. But the 660ti is way better than the crapeon I wouldn't listen to that. I could post why ( i own both) but why take my word for it when It's the leading selling card on tiger.

On raw performance, that would be a substantial downgrade from a GeForce GTX 470.  The GeForce GTX 650 is roughly equivalent to a Radeon HD 7750, Radeon HD 5770/6770, or GeForce GTX 550 Ti.  And the 7750 is typically cheaper than that.

  Blazeyer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 471

:)

 
OP  5/14/13 6:16:12 PM#11

I'm going to get an Nvidia card, as I've always had good experiences with them (going back to my o'l 6800). I'm going to make an order tonight most likely, but as I've said in my previous posts my gtx470 is a very good card, but is just way way too hot and too loud for my liking. I heard on reddit the PNY 660 Ti runs hot/loud ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133466), so that's why I was leaning toward the ASUS card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121656).

 

Thoughts?

 

And my most important question again is with my current setup i7-930, x58 mobo (PCI-2.0) etc (all the links for the exact stuff are in the OP) am I going to be able to just put one of these cards in without issue?

 

Thanks so much guys

  Zezda

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 707

5/14/13 6:49:58 PM#12
If all you can afford is a 660 then go with that. If you have enough for a 660Ti then a 7950 Boost is the better buy. If for some arbitrary reason you just refuse to buy an AMD card then save a little bit extra and get the 670 or 680.