Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Firefall | H1Z1 | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,852,045 Users Online:0
Games:733  Posts:6,226,589
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » We've removed the healer class - What about the tank as well?

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search
108 posts found
  User Deleted
5/12/13 5:42:58 PM#41
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by fat_taddler
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by fat_taddler

Once again, another person looking to do away with roles because it's too hard to find a group.  

Sorry it's such an inconvenience to get your dungeon run going but these types of suggestions do nothing to improve game play.  

Unfortunately, some developers are attempting to attract players like the OP by continuing to strip away core elements of the MMO genre.   Even more unfortunate is the fact that the players who think it's such a good idea to remove these classes really don't even like MMO's but instead of finding another genre, they bitch and moan about being inconvenienced by the game play mechanics that the genre was built on. 

Go play an FPS or single player RPG.  There are TONS of those games out there and none of them require you to wait for a tank or healer.

You sir, are also brainswashed by Blizzard by the fact that you think a MMO MUST be designed around a healer/tank/dps class group doing all content.

 

You sir have no idea what you're talking about.  Roles like tanks and healers were around long before WoW.    I realize that you probably started playing MMO's when WoW came out so I'll give you a pass.

My first MMOs were UO and EQ, tuvm, but I think it's a shame that you can't think outside the themepark cookie cutter template.

/golf clap   

Once again, my argument is not really about keeping everything the same but more about people like the OP bitching about roles because he / she can't put together a group in a timely manner.  

We've seen developers attempt to remove the trinity but it's proven to be bad for long term PvE game play.

Find a better solution to tanks and healers and I'll certainly listen but I have yet to see a viable alternative.

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

5/12/13 5:44:02 PM#42

I honestly love playing a healer type role in games.

 

More to the point though I'd rather not necessarily classes to remain, but specialization. Homogenization of player roles and experience means it caters to a very finite play style in the game and that means a lot fewer people are really even getting what they want out of it.

 

Take Planetside 2 for example. It might fundamentally be a shooter. No matter which class you play, you're going to be shooting a gun at something.

However the game also has the variances it introduces via the classes. Each one has a unique mechanic and access to particular gear that enables a slightly different style of play, and consequently lets multiple kinds of players find their own niche.

I'll also use it as an example of what I don't like about classes though, and that's the rigid segregation of game mechanics.

While game balance is a valid concern and somewhat a primary reason to do so, I preferred it more in the original Planetside where you were effectively building classes for yourself based off the combination of armor and gear you picked. It still enforced the notion of player specialization, as you couldn't pick up and do everything at once, but you could kit out to have a setup for a particular task at any given moment.

 

It'd require a different kind of game really. As long as you're talking about running through games where there is only one solution (must do X to win) you are going to have this issue.

 

It's at this point that another reference might be good by citing Deus Ex and the reason it was heralded as such a good and more so unique game. It was an FPS where shooting people wasn't the only way to win.

It wasn't by eliminating the challenge of the game, it was by presenting the challenge as a puzzle with multiple approaches. Machines to hack, guards to trick, trap, and distract, etc. You could specialize yourself in different ways to pull off a very different approach and experience to the title.

This is also why Deus Ex Invisible War earned plenty of complaints when it came out, people saying it had lost much of it's flexibility and become more simply a shooter.

 

As long as the only way to beat a dungeon or complete a quest hinges on you killing a monster or interacting with a few objects, you are not going to have any practical application found in rearranging classes. The most you get is a simplified gameplay experience as you're still doing the same thing as you'd otherwise be doing, only now it's with a few other abilities.

 

So rather than adding or cutting player choice from the classes they play, there should probably be more emphasis put into giving them more choice in how they can interact with the game using those classes.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  Amuse

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/04
Posts: 6

5/12/13 5:51:32 PM#43

How about we remove the DPS class and force those players to play healers and tanks?

 

But on a serious note, remove the tanky classes and healers is a big mistake.   GW2 as an example, where the open world raid content has devolved into "throw players at it until it dies" and group instancing is based on having to heal yourself trough some means. 

Games that makes one role more important that others arent doing it right if you ask me.   There are plenty of games out there where the DPS role is just as important as the healer and tank role.  A majority of the playerbase likes to play dps classes, so they are easier to come by for the casual player and PUGs, but that does not mean they are less important. 

The major selling point of an MMO over other games is the cooperative nature of the gameplay.  Removing the varied classes and roles subtracts from this, and as mentioned previously in this thread, we should go the other way, add more options, more variations.

And as for the roles of Tank and Healer in pvp, take DaoC as a prime example.  There your tank could protect your dps or healers, preventing enemies from reaching them, or shield and bodyblocking blows for them.   I played a both a healer and a tank there, and as the healer there was nothing i loved more than a highly skilled tank.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

5/12/13 5:51:35 PM#44
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Damage99

Better yet all MMO's should just have 1 class that everyone plays and is exactly the same that way you dont need to depend on anyone else in the MULTIPLAYER world.

 

Great plan.

Yeah, and while we are at it. Let's just have one type of weapon and armor as well. 

How far will this dumbing down of MMOs go?

In my opinion, specifically in PvE, the trinity is the most dumbed down that MMO combat can get. I still like playing healers, but I'm not oblivious to the idea that my role is far less complicated and interesting in WoW than it is in a game like GW2 where I often play a support heavy elementalist.

 

Ok guys, we all have 1 role. You make sure you keep agro. You make sure you do dps. You make sure you heal. Every once min a while, move to the side when there is a telegraphed move.

 

Having your role decided by the devs is as dumbed down as it gets. I think part of the reason that people hate other systems outside of the trinity so much is because they like being assigned a single task instead of many. It's easier on their brains.

 

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Yamota

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/12/13 5:52:57 PM#45
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Damage99

Better yet all MMO's should just have 1 class that everyone plays and is exactly the same that way you dont need to depend on anyone else in the MULTIPLAYER world.

 

Great plan.

Yeah, and while we are at it. Let's just have one type of weapon and armor as well. 

How far will this dumbing down of MMOs go?

As long as players keep subbing on such games.

If the income is rising/steady, then the ppl behind those games will keep thinking they are doing a good job. Money says all.

Yes I understand that but surely not all devs must be into making hamburgers and fries, surely there must be some who wants to make filet mignon?

Why do we have so many other industries which have everything from premium wares to trash, cheap knockoffs where is in MMOs we only have the latter?

  TheHavok

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2423

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

5/12/13 5:56:47 PM#46

MMOs done away with the healer class?  SINCE WHEN??!!?  Just because ONE MMO did it (guild wars 2) doesn't mean the whole genre did it.  And for the most part, people aren't raving about guild war 2's PvE or PvP.

Anyways, back to the topic: Tanks - I think they are fine.  Just make them super utility base (kind of like a constant buffer) and they can be efficient in pvp as well.

Edit: And on that note, if you want to do away with tanks, and you can come up with a fun, efficient way to do it, then by all means go right ahead!

  Yamota

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/12/13 5:57:07 PM#47
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Damage99

Better yet all MMO's should just have 1 class that everyone plays and is exactly the same that way you dont need to depend on anyone else in the MULTIPLAYER world.

 

Great plan.

Yeah, and while we are at it. Let's just have one type of weapon and armor as well. 

How far will this dumbing down of MMOs go?

In my opinion, specifically in PvE, the trinity is the most dumbed down that MMO combat can get. I still like playing healers, but I'm not oblivious to the idea that my role is far less complicated and interesting in WoW than it is in a game like GW2 where I often play a support heavy elementalist.

 

Ok guys, we all have 1 role. You make sure you keep agro. You make sure you do dps. You make sure you heal. Every once min a while, move to the side when there is a telegraphed move.

 

Having your role decided by the devs is as dumbed down as it gets. I think part of the reason that people hate other systems outside of the trinity so much is because they like being assigned a single task instead of many. It's easier on their brains.

 

 

Explain to me how having three roles is more dumbed down than having only two (dmg and support). Contrary to popular belief, trinity based games can, and frequently do, have hybrid classes which can do more than one thing. Off-tanks can also DPS. Secondary healers can often either CC or DPS and so on.

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

5/12/13 5:58:06 PM#48
Originally posted by fat_taddler
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by fat_taddler
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by fat_taddler

Once again, another person looking to do away with roles because it's too hard to find a group.  

Sorry it's such an inconvenience to get your dungeon run going but these types of suggestions do nothing to improve game play.  

Unfortunately, some developers are attempting to attract players like the OP by continuing to strip away core elements of the MMO genre.   Even more unfortunate is the fact that the players who think it's such a good idea to remove these classes really don't even like MMO's but instead of finding another genre, they bitch and moan about being inconvenienced by the game play mechanics that the genre was built on. 

Go play an FPS or single player RPG.  There are TONS of those games out there and none of them require you to wait for a tank or healer.

You sir, are also brainswashed by Blizzard by the fact that you think a MMO MUST be designed around a healer/tank/dps class group doing all content.

 

You sir have no idea what you're talking about.  Roles like tanks and healers were around long before WoW.    I realize that you probably started playing MMO's when WoW came out so I'll give you a pass.

My first MMOs were UO and EQ, tuvm, but I think it's a shame that you can't think outside the themepark cookie cutter template.

/golf clap   

Once again, my argument is not really about keeping everything the same but more about people like the OP bitching about roles because he / she can't put together a group in a timely manner.  

We've seen developers attempt to remove the trinity but it's proven to be bad for long term PvE game play.

Find a better solution to tanks and healers and I'll certainly listen but I have yet to see a viable alternative.

When and which game, tell me so that i can get a few laughts.

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

5/12/13 6:00:32 PM#49
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Damage99

Better yet all MMO's should just have 1 class that everyone plays and is exactly the same that way you dont need to depend on anyone else in the MULTIPLAYER world.

 

Great plan.

Yeah, and while we are at it. Let's just have one type of weapon and armor as well. 

How far will this dumbing down of MMOs go?

In my opinion, specifically in PvE, the trinity is the most dumbed down that MMO combat can get. I still like playing healers, but I'm not oblivious to the idea that my role is far less complicated and interesting in WoW than it is in a game like GW2 where I often play a support heavy elementalist.

 

Ok guys, we all have 1 role. You make sure you keep agro. You make sure you do dps. You make sure you heal. Every once min a while, move to the side when there is a telegraphed move.

 

Having your role decided by the devs is as dumbed down as it gets. I think part of the reason that people hate other systems outside of the trinity so much is because they like being assigned a single task instead of many. It's easier on their brains.

 

 

Explain to me how having three roles is more dumbed down than having only two (dmg and support). Contrary to popular belief, trinity based games can, and frequently do, have hybrid classes which can do more than one thing. Off-tanks can also DPS. Secondary healers can often either CC or DPS and so on.

I like how you people always forget about control roles.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

5/12/13 6:02:31 PM#50
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Damage99

Better yet all MMO's should just have 1 class that everyone plays and is exactly the same that way you dont need to depend on anyone else in the MULTIPLAYER world.

 

Great plan.

Yeah, and while we are at it. Let's just have one type of weapon and armor as well. 

How far will this dumbing down of MMOs go?

In my opinion, specifically in PvE, the trinity is the most dumbed down that MMO combat can get. I still like playing healers, but I'm not oblivious to the idea that my role is far less complicated and interesting in WoW than it is in a game like GW2 where I often play a support heavy elementalist.

 

Ok guys, we all have 1 role. You make sure you keep agro. You make sure you do dps. You make sure you heal. Every once min a while, move to the side when there is a telegraphed move.

 

Having your role decided by the devs is as dumbed down as it gets. I think part of the reason that people hate other systems outside of the trinity so much is because they like being assigned a single task instead of many. It's easier on their brains.

Explain to me how having three roles is more dumbed down than having only two (dmg and support). Contrary to popular belief, trinity based games can, and frequently do, have hybrid classes which can do more than one thing. Off-tanks can also DPS. Secondary healers can often either CC or DPS and so on.

Explain to me why you think the number of developer defined roles is the determining factor when considering whether or not the gameplay is dumbed down. If anything, you can say that GW2 does not have any defined roles at all and has an infinite amount of roles. That is a lot more than 3.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Conjureman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/05
Posts: 5

5/12/13 6:04:00 PM#51

I understand the urge to remove roles from MMORPGs but I feel that doing so results in classes becoming more and more generic, which I find uninteresting.  I think the key is not so much removing roles but making them "nice to have" rather than "need to have."  Personally, I have run many dungeons, instances, etc. without balanced teams and even leveled through most of EQ back in the day with no real tank in our group using crowd control and creativity. I think roles become more "essential" in gear-grinding hard mode content, which for me holds little interest anyway. 

  Yamota

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/12/13 6:18:41 PM#52
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Damage99

Better yet all MMO's should just have 1 class that everyone plays and is exactly the same that way you dont need to depend on anyone else in the MULTIPLAYER world.

 

Great plan.

Yeah, and while we are at it. Let's just have one type of weapon and armor as well. 

How far will this dumbing down of MMOs go?

In my opinion, specifically in PvE, the trinity is the most dumbed down that MMO combat can get. I still like playing healers, but I'm not oblivious to the idea that my role is far less complicated and interesting in WoW than it is in a game like GW2 where I often play a support heavy elementalist.

 

Ok guys, we all have 1 role. You make sure you keep agro. You make sure you do dps. You make sure you heal. Every once min a while, move to the side when there is a telegraphed move.

 

Having your role decided by the devs is as dumbed down as it gets. I think part of the reason that people hate other systems outside of the trinity so much is because they like being assigned a single task instead of many. It's easier on their brains.

Explain to me how having three roles is more dumbed down than having only two (dmg and support). Contrary to popular belief, trinity based games can, and frequently do, have hybrid classes which can do more than one thing. Off-tanks can also DPS. Secondary healers can often either CC or DPS and so on.

Explain to me why you think the number of developer defined roles is the determining factor when considering whether or not the gameplay is dumbed down. If anything, you can say that GW2 does not have any defined roles at all and has an infinite amount of roles. That is a lot more than 3.

Maybe I missed it, but I was not aware that this discussion was about GW 2. In any case, you are contradicting yourself. One one hand you want me to explain why having more roles in combat is a determining factor, something I did not claim but I do think it is a factor. 

However on the other hand you seems to be implying that having many roles, such as what you claim GW 2 has, is not dumbed down.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5548

5/12/13 6:34:10 PM#53
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Damage99

Better yet all MMO's should just have 1 class that everyone plays and is exactly the same that way you dont need to depend on anyone else in the MULTIPLAYER world.

 

Great plan.

Yeah, and while we are at it. Let's just have one type of weapon and armor as well. 

How far will this dumbing down of MMOs go?

In my opinion, specifically in PvE, the trinity is the most dumbed down that MMO combat can get. I still like playing healers, but I'm not oblivious to the idea that my role is far less complicated and interesting in WoW than it is in a game like GW2 where I often play a support heavy elementalist.

 

Ok guys, we all have 1 role. You make sure you keep agro. You make sure you do dps. You make sure you heal. Every once min a while, move to the side when there is a telegraphed move.

 

Having your role decided by the devs is as dumbed down as it gets. I think part of the reason that people hate other systems outside of the trinity so much is because they like being assigned a single task instead of many. It's easier on their brains.

Explain to me how having three roles is more dumbed down than having only two (dmg and support). Contrary to popular belief, trinity based games can, and frequently do, have hybrid classes which can do more than one thing. Off-tanks can also DPS. Secondary healers can often either CC or DPS and so on.

Explain to me why you think the number of developer defined roles is the determining factor when considering whether or not the gameplay is dumbed down. If anything, you can say that GW2 does not have any defined roles at all and has an infinite amount of roles. That is a lot more than 3.

Maybe I missed it, but I was not aware that this discussion was about GW 2. In any case, you are contradicting yourself. One one hand you want me to explain why having more roles in combat is a determining factor, something I did not claim but I do think it is a factor. 

However on the other hand you seems to be implying that having many roles, such as what you claim GW 2 has, is not dumbed down.

GW2 is a point of reference. How many games do you know of that are popular enough to have a discussion about lack of trinity? GW2 is the perfect candidate for such a discussion since it is one of the few games that doesn't have clearly defined roles. Why would we not use GW2 to discuss this? It's also why I use WoW. It is one of the biggest PvE trinity games.

 

If we use your example for number of roles deciding how "dumbed down" a combat system is, then a game like GW2 is less dumbed down than one with 3 roles because there is no limit to the role combinations you can use and play with effectively. Your logical conclusion started with a faulty premise which was that GW2 has only 2 roles.

 

I am of the opinion that the PvE experience in GW2 tends to be much more complex than anything I've experienced in WoW. The teamwork and consistency in an average dungeon experience offers more varied playstyles than anything WoW has to offer.

 

However, I think that the raid encounter design in WoW is pretty damn good. One of the reasons I think this is true is because they can work within the confines of such a limited combat system.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  MMOPapa

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 121

There's a reason you can't spell Deadline without the word 'dead'.

5/12/13 6:41:46 PM#54
Originally posted by Dogblaster

I am not playing ANY mmorg that has no trinity ... again.

 

trinity is way to superior, fun and best just to ignore it ... everyone dps? everyone self healer? nah thank you. rpgs were always about roles

This. I'm still a fan of the trinity. The only time I don't care about the trinity's existence? PVP.

  roreux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 15

5/12/13 10:39:49 PM#55
Originally posted by Thresh
GW2 has done away with the trinity. Look at its group PvE combat - pisspoor at best. Bunch of people chaotically rolling around to avoid damage.

 

 

GW2 PvE makes me think of this.

 

 

  Hawkspeed

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 8

5/12/13 11:00:30 PM#56

2 words for you,

City of Heroes.

 

It did it so well its crazy that no developers tried to copy it.

You could have a tank and healer like you could have none of those but have CC, you could have a tank and CC without a healer, you could have a healer and CC without a tank and still be successful, the list goes on.

I'm still ******* mad that they took it down. sigh

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4605

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/12/13 11:04:05 PM#57

let's remove the dps class first though.

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12141

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

5/12/13 11:08:43 PM#58
Originally posted by Hatefull
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Dogblaster

I am not playing ANY mmorg that has no trinity ... again.

 

trinity is way to superior, fun and best just to ignore it ... everyone dps? everyone self healer? nah thank you. rpgs were always about roles

If a person never tried PvP at all and never experienced PvE outside of EQ/WOW mechanics, I can easily see them thinking the way you do.

I have played every game you mention and I tend to disagree with you...and your evident elitism.  Ignoring the second part of my statement I disagree with you completely about EVE.  They use stealth bombers (rogues), carriers (support/cc) I can't remember the bigger boats (been awhile and I have TBI, so meh) but they most definitely build for tanking and pure damage.  So in that regard, you are full of crap at the least.

The trinity works for people that like working as a team to accomplish something.  The big issue I see is trying to make one toon or type of toon that can both PvE and PvP equally well.  To my way of thinking, a tank has really no place in PvP.  They are the last toon targeted and for good reason, they generally do crap damage. 

Basically, leave PvE with the trinity, and figure out something else for PvP.  This is coming from a guy that plays PvE/PvP PC, consoles, PnP you name it I game it.  

I don't hate on innovation, but lets not remove the roles and team from RPG games please.


Stop being defensive about someone possibly slighting your favorite video game strategies because it has you reading things into people's posts that simply aren't there.

He states that the trinity is superior and it's best just to ignore any game that doesn't have it... and then call me elitist? Is it really elitist to call out the tank role for what it is - a cheap workaround?

You then go into completely confusing support/offense/defense with what we are talking about in this discussion which is the TANK, a character class that exists solely to function within the aggro/threat system. So, instead of wasting your time typing out insults and calling me full of crap, read up a bit on the topic you chose to discuss and understand it a bit better.

You say you're a PnP gamer, so then you're probably aware that tanks did not exist in PnP. Why? Because it's a ridiculous role. In PnP games you have position and distance in a format that simply didn't translate well to MUDs and MMOs, especially with the all too common lack of CD and the introduction of the many new variables introduced as a result of moving to a digital medium.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Sharuko

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 23

5/13/13 12:05:42 AM#59
No one removed healers and no one is going to remove tanks.  WildStar, FFXIV ARR, ArcheAge and TESO will all have healers and tanks.  And we saw how dumbed down, bad and anti-social MMOs without healers and tanks are (see GW2)  We don't need to see more of that.
  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5520

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

5/13/13 1:36:58 AM#60
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Hatefull
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Dogblaster

I am not playing ANY mmorg that has no trinity ... again.

 

trinity is way to superior, fun and best just to ignore it ... everyone dps? everyone self healer? nah thank you. rpgs were always about roles

If a person never tried PvP at all and never experienced PvE outside of EQ/WOW mechanics, I can easily see them thinking the way you do.

I have played every game you mention and I tend to disagree with you...and your evident elitism.  Ignoring the second part of my statement I disagree with you completely about EVE.  They use stealth bombers (rogues), carriers (support/cc) I can't remember the bigger boats (been awhile and I have TBI, so meh) but they most definitely build for tanking and pure damage.  So in that regard, you are full of crap at the least.

The trinity works for people that like working as a team to accomplish something.  The big issue I see is trying to make one toon or type of toon that can both PvE and PvP equally well.  To my way of thinking, a tank has really no place in PvP.  They are the last toon targeted and for good reason, they generally do crap damage. 

Basically, leave PvE with the trinity, and figure out something else for PvP.  This is coming from a guy that plays PvE/PvP PC, consoles, PnP you name it I game it.  

I don't hate on innovation, but lets not remove the roles and team from RPG games please.


Stop being defensive about someone possibly slighting your favorite video game strategies because it has you reading things into people's posts that simply aren't there.

He states that the trinity is superior and it's best just to ignore any game that doesn't have it... and then call me elitist? Is it really elitist to call out the tank role for what it is - a cheap workaround?

You then go into completely confusing support/offense/defense with what we are talking about in this discussion which is the TANK, a character class that exists solely to function within the aggro/threat system. So, instead of wasting your time typing out insults and calling me full of crap, read up a bit on the topic you chose to discuss and understand it a bit better.

You say you're a PnP gamer, so then you're probably aware that tanks did not exist in PnP. Why? Because it's a ridiculous role. In PnP games you have position and distance in a format that simply didn't translate well to MUDs and MMOs, especially with the all too common lack of CD and the introduction of the many new variables introduced as a result of moving to a digital medium.

I'm with Loktofeit 100%. Tank only exists to manipulate aggro or to exploit under-developed AI. Hence, there are no tanks in PnP games or PvP, where you are playing against a human opponent.

Teamwork and cooperation does not rely on the tank - on any single role. Any game with any amount of specialization and decent balance will have roles people can fulfill. If you doubt this, you need to play more games. The tank is not mandatory - neither is the healer.

I am sad to see so many people engrained in the trinity to realize this.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search