Trending Games | EverQuest Next | Guild Wars 2 | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,920,747 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,312,443
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Developers have fooled us over the definition of "Pay-to-Win"

21 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Last Search
419 posts found
  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5212

5/12/13 8:33:02 AM#141
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by Beelzebobbie
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

Well by these standards every mmo inte the world is p2w, I bought gold in Wow and full epic after that. How is this different then a cash shop, except its a thrid party that gets the cash. 

All games that don't have a cash shop you can always buy from a third party who will sell you gold or gear.

 

I am surprised this took so long to come up, but in WoW BoE gear is 2+ tiers below the best gear in the game.

I bought a character (actually just the leveling and the farming, took a while)  with the  max tier gear. Please comment on this.

:) So were back to every game being p2w. 

Yes, with enough money, and the right connection every game can be p2w.

Life is not fair.

Gaming is not life. Gaming should be a fair as possible within reason.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

5/12/13 8:37:27 AM#142
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by Beelzebobbie
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

Well by these standards every mmo inte the world is p2w, I bought gold in Wow and full epic after that. How is this different then a cash shop, except its a thrid party that gets the cash. 

All games that don't have a cash shop you can always buy from a third party who will sell you gold or gear.

 

I am surprised this took so long to come up, but in WoW BoE gear is 2+ tiers below the best gear in the game.

I bought a character (actually just the leveling and the farming, took a while)  with the  max tier gear. Please comment on this.

:) So were back to every game being p2w. 

Yes, with enough money, and the right connection every game can be p2w.

Life is not fair.

Gaming is not life. Gaming should be a fair as possible within reason.

Games are part of life.

The main reason to buy gear in wow was to keep up with friends which have been raiding higher content. I could not spend as much time as them to keep up with gear.

  Beelzebobbie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/09
Posts: 427

If DaoC was so fun why don't you just play it?

5/12/13 8:37:30 AM#143
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

Well by these standards every mmo inte the world is p2w, I bought gold in Wow and full epic after that. How is this different then a cash shop, except its a thrid party that gets the cash. 

All games that don't have a cash shop you can always buy from a third party who will sell you gold or gear.

 

Tell us your username and we can have your account deleted.

You can get money in RL by robbing a pensioner instead of working, it's quicker and easier but against the rules.

As I said, I have not played wow for a long time. I don't even remember my acount name. Last time I logged in my acount was hacked so kind of a poetic justice over that one. 

But don't get me wrong I am not saying its ok to buy gold or an acount for real money I am just saying that there is an option to do it and that makes it p2w.

Wow was to easy, thats why I quit. :) 

 

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

5/12/13 8:55:57 AM#144
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

To me the definition of "Pay-to-Win" has always been something in an MMO that let you gain an in-game advantage.  In almost all F2P/B2P MMOs you can get some of the best gear in the game with real life money, usually by converting real life money to game currency and buying epics.  For example, I can gear my character in GW2 or Neverwinter in full "epics" with real life money.

I keep hearing players and developers now say that if you can get this gear in game with game currency, it isn't "Pay-to-Win".  When did this become the definition become the norm?

If I can get the best gear in the game with real life money, and I can get it with in-game currency.  It is still "Pay-to-Win".  Because usually you can buy in-game currency with real life money.

Star Citizen and Chris Roberts recently took this approach.  In Star Citizen you can buy all the ships with real life money.  When people said it was "Pay-to-Win", RSI said it isn't "Pay-to-Win" because you can buy the ships in game.

So am I wrong?  What is the definition of "Pay-to-Win"?

You feel entitled of  playing AAA games without paying anything ?

Why don;t YOU make a free MMO which is not pay to win and is not subscription based instead of moaning?

Bellow is everything you need to make you game and make it free for all no cash shop no subscription.

Only thing you will need is to pay for servers at some point but maybe you convince a datacenter to gave you some for free in exchange for publicity.

 

game  engine: http://unity3d.com/

3d modeling: http://www.blender.org/

free textures: http://cgtextures.com/

 

No, I stick to subscription games.  I played Neverwinter and paid $60 for the Founder's pack. You assumed a lot there, everything being false.  As LoL and Path of Exile proved you can be successful with cosmetic items.

Same thing apply, you don;t like the current trend-  make your own game. Everything is available for free. Work hard for 2-3 years and then make it free to play and then see how some dude start to comment that he does not like something.

I don't make games for a living.  If I don't like something I give feedback, that is how the world works. Again, comments like this add nothing to the discussion.

I am not making a living also from game development. However because there are some aspects that i don;t like in current mmos i decided to give it a shot at making a game in my free time. Probably i will never finish the game but at least i understand a little bit how complex is to make one including the money process.

 

  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 587

 
OP  5/12/13 9:04:39 AM#145
Originally posted by apanz3r
 

I am not making a living also from game development. However because there are some aspects that i don;t like in current mmos i decided to give it a shot at making a game in my free time. Probably i will never finish the game but at least i understand a little bit how complex is to make one including the money process.

 

Good for you, that means nothing to me, nor do I care.  I understand some of the complexities of making a game let alone an MMO, again a false assumption.  And I doubt you actually understand how complex it is.  And I as a consumer of games have the right to give my feedback/criticism at the direction these MMOs are taking.  And good developers welcome this feedback and criticism. 

  User Deleted
5/12/13 9:09:05 AM#146
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by apanz3r
 

I am not making a living also from game development. However because there are some aspects that i don;t like in current mmos i decided to give it a shot at making a game in my free time. Probably i will never finish the game but at least i understand a little bit how complex is to make one including the money process.

 

Good for you, that means nothing to me, nor do I care.  I understand the complexities of making a game let alone an MMO, again a false assumption.  And I doubt you actually understand how complex it is.  And I as a consumer of games have the right to give my feedback/criticism at the direction these MMOs are taking.  And good developers welcome this feedback and criticism. 

But only listen to the majority and the majority, like it or not, want balanced F2P games, balanced in this context means anything in the game can be acquired or traded for in-game.

  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 587

 
OP  5/12/13 9:11:39 AM#147
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by apanz3r
 

I am not making a living also from game development. However because there are some aspects that i don;t like in current mmos i decided to give it a shot at making a game in my free time. Probably i will never finish the game but at least i understand a little bit how complex is to make one including the money process.

 

Good for you, that means nothing to me, nor do I care.  I understand the complexities of making a game let alone an MMO, again a false assumption.  And I doubt you actually understand how complex it is.  And I as a consumer of games have the right to give my feedback/criticism at the direction these MMOs are taking.  And good developers welcome this feedback and criticism. 

But only listen to the majority and the majority, like it or not, want balanced F2P games, balanced in this context means anything in the game can be acquired or traded for in-game.

When a F2P game becomes the biggest MMO in the West I will believe that and will assume the culture has changed.  Until then I don't see that as a 100% truth.

The biggest game is LoL, which is 100% cosmetic.  Which I don't mind the model off.

  Jagarid

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/09
Posts: 413

“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”

5/12/13 9:18:13 AM#148

This is not a "new" definition that has been tricked onto people by developers.  The debate over what is and is not pay to win has been going on ever since the free to play games with cash shops have existed.    It is a difference of opinion by the player base, plain and simple, and has always existed.

 

Personally I find the debate stupid because all MMOs are pay to win as far as I'm concerned.   Time is money and people with nothing better to do but play games 24-7 have an advantage in all MMOs, hence they are paying (with time) to win.    That's my view on it.  

Of course, these are the very same people that get so upset when cash shops let other people bypass that time.   Yah, your currency (time) is somehow more legit than someone else's money?  Stop playing games all the time and get a freaking job.    

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1174

5/12/13 9:18:13 AM#149
Originally posted by MMOPapa
I'll tell you what Pay to Win is when Dragon's Prophet lifts it's NDA. :P

Well the game is made by the makers of runes of magic and that game is one of the most heavily pay2win mmorpgs out there. The fact it had blasted on it "made by the makers of runes of magic" pretty much immedtaly turned me off to the game. Just from that devs reputation alone for nickle and diming for every little thing. I got into the dragon prophet beta and I can't even find the download for the client anywhere, so I gave up on it.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

5/12/13 9:21:07 AM#150


Originally posted by Livnthedream

Competition is inherent in games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5jDspIC4hY (check the description, lots of resources there)

You are not making any point nor address any of mine.

Competition and games are 2 different concepts as I pointed out before. Games can be competitive, nothing is inherited.

Games are played for competition, entertainment, education, etc., games are played for many reasons and purposes.


By your definition, single player games are no games since you are not competing with anyone there.

Such definition is obviously incorrect.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

5/12/13 9:29:22 AM#151


Originally posted by SoMuchMass

It is true, most MMOs while leveling you are behind if you don't put the time in it.  If you think otherwise give me an example of three MMOs that doesn't require time/skill while leveling?  I personally would be glad to see examples that tell me otherwise.

Again, but now at max level in several MMOs (not all) you can buy the best gear in the game with real life money.  Mostly in F2P MMOs.  This thread is needed because this is the case in some MMOs not all MMOs.  I specifically said F2P/B2P games if you read the original post.


For any constructive debate is is very worthy to read carefully posts you reply to and then address the points raised.


Repeating or re-phrasing same over and over won't miraculously make statements truth, won't turn invalid points into valid nor make up some actual point.


You implied that only time should matter for progression and that it is how games should and are designed.

I countered your argument with simple fact of reality - current MMO market, subsequently resulting in creation of this marvelous thread(many, equally pointless).


tldr:
Games used to be heavily time dependent but with new player base and increased competition, developers, without much changing their game concept, adopted their payment models so MMO audience with less spare time can get on par with no-lifers.

More options, the better.

  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 587

 
OP  5/12/13 9:32:07 AM#152
Originally posted by Gdemami

 

You implied that only time should matter for progression and that it is how games should and are designed.

I countered your argument with simple fact of reality - current MMO market, subsequently resulting in creation of this marvelous thread(and many equally pointless).

 

Give me three examples in the "current MMO market" that while leveling isn't base on time/skill.  Thanks.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

5/12/13 9:38:48 AM#153


Originally posted by SoMuchMass

Give me three examples in the "current MMO market" that while leveling isn't base on time/skill.  Thanks.

You are arguing with yourself, I do not see my part here.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2832

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

5/12/13 9:40:17 AM#154
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

To me the definition of "Pay-to-Win" has always been something in an MMO that let you gain an in-game advantage.  In almost all F2P/B2P MMOs you can get some of the best gear in the game with real life money, usually by converting real life money to game currency and buying epics.  For example, I can gear my character in GW2 or Neverwinter in full "epics" with real life money.

I keep hearing players and developers now say that if you can get this gear in game with game currency, it isn't "Pay-to-Win".  When did this become the definition become the norm?

If I can get the best gear in the game with real life money, and I can get it with in-game currency.  It is still "Pay-to-Win".  Because usually you can buy in-game currency with real life money.

Star Citizen and Chris Roberts recently took this approach.  In Star Citizen you can buy all the ships with real life money.  When people said it was "Pay-to-Win", RSI said it isn't "Pay-to-Win" because you can buy the ships in game.

So am I wrong?  What is the definition of "Pay-to-Win"?

Your definition is skewed and not accurate.  P2W has always meant buying power or buying something that is more powerful then can be brought in game. 

 

Buying items that can be aquired through normal means with the same stats and power is not P2W, it's called Pay For Convenience.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 587

 
OP  5/12/13 9:41:16 AM#155
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by SoMuchMass

Give me three examples in the "current MMO market" that while leveling isn't base on time/skill.  Thanks.

 

You are arguing with yourself, I do not see my part here.

Since you said the "current MMO market" is not based on time/skill.  I am asking you, give me examples in this "current MMO market".  I am guessing you have none.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7488

5/12/13 9:43:19 AM#156


Originally posted by SoMuchMass

Since you said the "current MMO market" is not based on time/skill.

I never said that.

You make up stuff, you deal with it. I am not involved in any way.

  User Deleted
5/12/13 9:44:48 AM#157
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

To me the definition of "Pay-to-Win" has always been something in an MMO that let you gain an in-game advantage.  In almost all F2P/B2P MMOs you can get some of the best gear in the game with real life money, usually by converting real life money to game currency and buying epics.  For example, I can gear my character in GW2 or Neverwinter in full "epics" with real life money.

I keep hearing players and developers now say that if you can get this gear in game with game currency, it isn't "Pay-to-Win".  When did this become the definition become the norm?

If I can get the best gear in the game with real life money, and I can get it with in-game currency.  It is still "Pay-to-Win".  Because usually you can buy in-game currency with real life money.

Star Citizen and Chris Roberts recently took this approach.  In Star Citizen you can buy all the ships with real life money.  When people said it was "Pay-to-Win", RSI said it isn't "Pay-to-Win" because you can buy the ships in game.

So am I wrong?  What is the definition of "Pay-to-Win"?

 

I can buy a max level and max geared character in any game you care to mention for real money. Life is pay to win. Sorry to give you the bad news.

  User Deleted
5/12/13 9:46:01 AM#158
Originally posted by SoMuchMass
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by SoMuchMass

Give me three examples in the "current MMO market" that while leveling isn't base on time/skill.  Thanks.

 

You are arguing with yourself, I do not see my part here.

Since you said the "current MMO market" is not based on time/skill.  I am asking you, give me examples in this "current MMO market".  I am guessing you have none.

RMT has been around since the earliest MMOs. There were people buying stuff for real cash in Everquest and DAOC.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

5/12/13 9:47:33 AM#159

P2W is you buy  OP items from a cash shop that is NOT obtainable ingame.

That is the pure definition of P2W.

 

 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 587

 
OP  5/12/13 9:54:58 AM#160
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

To me the definition of "Pay-to-Win" has always been something in an MMO that let you gain an in-game advantage.  In almost all F2P/B2P MMOs you can get some of the best gear in the game with real life money, usually by converting real life money to game currency and buying epics.  For example, I can gear my character in GW2 or Neverwinter in full "epics" with real life money.

I keep hearing players and developers now say that if you can get this gear in game with game currency, it isn't "Pay-to-Win".  When did this become the definition become the norm?

If I can get the best gear in the game with real life money, and I can get it with in-game currency.  It is still "Pay-to-Win".  Because usually you can buy in-game currency with real life money.

Star Citizen and Chris Roberts recently took this approach.  In Star Citizen you can buy all the ships with real life money.  When people said it was "Pay-to-Win", RSI said it isn't "Pay-to-Win" because you can buy the ships in game.

So am I wrong?  What is the definition of "Pay-to-Win"?

 

I can buy a max level and max geared character in any game you care to mention for real money. Life is pay to win. Sorry to give you the bad news.

This was brought up several times.  It is different when a 3rd party does it against the terms of service and when a game developer does it themselves.  Secondly, games are not life.  The reason people play games is because it isn't life, that is what gives us the motivation and entertainment.

21 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Last Search