Trending Games | WildStar | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,736,471 Users Online:0
Games:713  Posts:6,174,536
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Top Guid Calls it Quits: The Balance Between Increased Content Distribution and a Compelling Treadmill

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
49 posts found
  Homitu

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2023

 
OP  5/10/13 1:18:39 PM#21
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Homitu

Thoughts?

I have to say that I think you should have titled the thread "Exodus makes mass exodus"

Haha, that would have been good.  But honestly, the thread is less about them or any specific guild and more about the concept that players - especially the more hardcore players - can get burnt out faster in a gear treadmill system when smaller pockets of content are released more frequently, thereby making a commonly regarded good quality of MMOs a counterintuitive bane for many players. 

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 679

5/10/13 1:20:48 PM#22
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by Homitu

.

Just adding player housing/cities with player elections (like SWG had) would have a profound effect on prolonging the replay value of WoW and other themeparks. Leaving Raiding/Dungons as the main endgame content is what they should do, but imagine if those players leading pugs, or in trade chat were actually "running for office"? I'm betting that would totally change the dynamic of the community.

I'd agree with you, IF there were enough players in the game that would participate in the "community" part of the game.  I know I would give WOW (or a similar type game) another look if I felt there was something else to work towards than the gear on my back....but I also played UO for 4+ years and enjoy sandbox MMO experiences.  I am in a small niche that frequented games like UO & SWG.

However, one of the other corners Blizzard worked itself into by appealing to casual gamers, is that most of the people playing WOW don't give two craps about player run city elections.  These folks don't read the quest text, they follow the arrow on the map to the monster they need to kill 10 times.  They play in 30-60 minute intervals & are primarily looking to just button mash for a little while and feel like they've made some progress at the end of an hour of playing.

After that, they are off to some other game, TV program, Movie, cooking dinner, raising kids, walking the dog, playing Angry Birds, etc.  It's the problem with aiming your entertainment product at casual gamers.  There are so many other forms of casual entertainment that you have to compete with....that you are driven to make things easier & more satisfying than the other casual stuff.

 

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 679

5/10/13 1:26:48 PM#23
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Homitu

Thoughts?

I have to say that I think you should have titled the thread "Exodus makes mass exodus"

Haha, that would have been good.  But honestly, the thread is less about them or any specific guild and more about the concept that players - especially the more hardcore players - can get burnt out faster in a gear treadmill system when smaller pockets of content are released more frequently, thereby making a commonly regarded good quality of MMOs a counterintuitive bane for many players. 

Good point, but what is the alternative?  The reason they are releasing so many more content patches so much more frequently is because the content is being consumed & mastered so fast that many of the "hardcore" competitive guilds are left standing with nothing to do only months after major content releases. 

You can't just up the difficulty all of the sudden, because then you limit the content to the top 1-2% of the guilds again and get an ear-full from other less capable hard-core & casual guilds.

They have made attempts at trying to dynamically appease both (through hard-core modes & stat buffs for dungeon late comers), but none have worked.

Whats that saying?  You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1207

5/10/13 1:31:00 PM#24
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by Homitu

.

Just adding player housing/cities with player elections (like SWG had) would have a profound effect on prolonging the replay value of WoW and other themeparks. Leaving Raiding/Dungons as the main endgame content is what they should do, but imagine if those players leading pugs, or in trade chat were actually "running for office"? I'm betting that would totally change the dynamic of the community.

I'd agree with you, IF there were enough players in the game that would participate in the "community" part of the game.  I know I would give WOW (or a similar type game) another look if I felt there was something else to work towards than the gear on my back....but I also played UO for 4+ years and enjoy sandbox MMO experiences.  I am in a small niche that frequented games like UO & SWG.

However, one of the other corners Blizzard worked itself into by appealing to casual gamers, is that most of the people playing WOW don't give two craps about player run city elections.  These folks don't read the quest text, they follow the arrow on the map to the monster they need to kill 10 times.  They play in 30-60 minute intervals & are primarily looking to just button mash for a little while and feel like they've made some progress at the end of an hour of playing.

After that, they are off to some other game, TV program, Movie, cooking dinner, raising kids, walking the dog, playing Angry Birds, etc.  It's the problem with aiming your entertainment product at casual gamers.  There are so many other forms of casual entertainment that you have to compete with....that you are driven to make things easier & more satisfying than the other casual stuff.

 

I think there is a huge misunderstanding of what "casuals" and "hardcores" do in WoW. Most people equate casual vs hardcore with the amount of time spent in the game (as you just did). I know many people on my server that play countless hours, but cant run normal raid content due to its complexity. While these people cant really raid (aside form LFR), they spend most of their time collecting mounts, doing pet battles, going for achievements, farming etc etc, and would be considdered "casual". Player cities/elections would get eaten up by these people.

Its the "hardcores" I think that wouldnt touch it. I myself am in a fairly progressed raiding guild (3/12 heoric T15 atm), but I honestly login just to raid. I wouldnt be caught dead doing dailies or farming or any stuff like that. Since I am running heroic raids, I generally wouldnt be considered "casual", yet I put in prob 1/10th the time of others that are labled as such.

Long story short, player cities/elections would be done by the same folks you imply wouldnt care about it.

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 493

5/10/13 1:35:29 PM#25
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by danwest58

I am not surprised that now we are seeing the wear-n-tear of the WoW raiding system coming back to haunt us.  I started playing WoW 1 month after release, lead 10, 20, 25 and 40 man raids, raiding guilds and I can tell you I seen this coming back in WoTLK.  Players today are becoming more and more burnt out from raiding period because in a years time a new expansion comes out and you replace your gear with greens in 2 days.  So the question I hear many of my friends that I have played MMOs with and raided with is why am I going to spend all this time and effort going to raid when really its just characters in a database somewhere.  It does not give them pleasure anymore nor is there a drive anymore from many of my friends that I have raided with that its going to keep them in a raiding base game.  They all love the fun of raiding however the Effort that it requires vs reward is not too imbalanced.  

This is why I say the next generation of MMOs will be what moves MMOs into a new direction.  I do not believe that raiding will be totally left behind.  However I do not see it as the only way to progress your characters past max level.  Blizzard, and SOE know this that is why they are working hard to come up with a new MMO with Titan and EQNEXT.  This is where I personally can see a Hybrid Themepark SandBox MMO mix.  I also do not see raiding going forward any larger than 10 or 20 people.  Most likely these games will stick to a 10 man format or a scaled system where you need a minimum requirement with no max.  I also see Small group content being also viable for progression.  For example if EQNext took UO treasure hunting you could get the same gear from a high level treasure map which will require 3 or 4 people to do to give you the same epic item that a raid boss would give you.

The question I will hear or the bashing is, RAIDING IS A MUST.  Not really its dying, I see it on every MMO.  There is little desire from the average MMO player to do raiding.  If Raiding just became a another way of getting gear people that want to do it for fun would step back up.  However to expect the current Treadmill to continue is just insane.  When I was in Rift in Dec I seen so many people get tired of the effort required to gear up to raid.  Last year in MOP the same thing no one wanted to do dailies or instances endlessly to raid.  

This is another reason why I think Wildstar is setup for failure because Raiding is just not there anymore like it was in 2005.  I know I been in a hardcore raiding guild in 2005, I know what it takes.  Been a raider in every MMO I played since WoW.  Why do I not push raiding in SWTOR right now, well the same reason this guild has stopped.  The treadmill is old, my friends feel the same way.  It needs to be fun and we need more than just raiding to allow our characters to progress.  Otherwise we will be leaving the MMO genera; honestly more than 5 dozen of my friends and people I played with other the years have done so.  Few have any desire to come back, and the few that do well want EQNEXT or TITAN to be something more than WOW or WoW clones.  

Good insight, and I agree that there will have to be some shift in how content is generated for players in order for a new game to be successful (and i don't mean break even). 

What I'd like to add is that this reluctance we see players in new "Themepark" MMOs is because the fatigue experienced in WOW transcends specific games, but carries over to similar gaming experiences.  We've seen it with Rift, Warhammer, GW2, SWTOR, and every other linear item progression based MMO that has tried to leverage the success WOW has had in the MMO market.  Once the new textures, player models & names of cities wear off (during the first month), you end up realizing that you're running the same darn delivery or "kill 10 of these" quests that you ran in WOW.

 

I agree with you that the Themepark MMOs are just copying wow and people realize they are just playing WoW again in the new MMO.  

 

Now I will not say that having some Themepark elements in a Hybrid Sandbox Themepark MMO would be bad.  I think it would do wonders for the genera.  Maybe 1 week I will go with 3 friends and do some treasure hunting for end game content.  Maybe the 2nd week we will grab 4 more people and do a instanced based raid.  Maybe a week after that we will take on some tough monster in game that requires 5 to 10 people to kill.   Having different things to do would be great for MMOs all together.  I think you can have a kill 10 of these quest if you had other content to go with it.  Hey guys lets protect this caravan from Luskin to Waterdeep.  Or Luskin to Ice Wind Dale.  :) 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6539

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/10/13 1:38:54 PM#26

When your whole game revolves around one carrot "Raids"then yes ,i am actually surprised people don't get bored in the first month.

Not sure you can call anything "competitive"if you run a Raid more than once,it just becomes habit and super easy.Even in the game i consider to have the toughest fights "FFXI" it becomes clockwork,you look for exact triggers,warning signs and your mages/healer look for their triggers and sings to react.

Another point is serious Wow raids tend to want ONLY the best geared players,i hardly call that challenging when you are geared to win.Also MANY of these so called serious players are all using ADD-ONS that  give them an unattended advantage,making their game yet again >>EASIER.

Nothing is ever as challenging and exciting as the first time,especially if nobody is telling you exactly how to win.Internet ruins all challenges,people simply look up the win formula and copy it.

 Eventually most of the WOw players will filter out and with all the knowledge they gain about shallow game play,they will not accept it any more in other games,It might actually be a good thing and encourage developers to step up their efforts.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18716

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

5/10/13 1:42:43 PM#27
So I came to this realization just before BC came out, which makes me look smart and these folks look like slow learners.

Hard core raiders indeed.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3082

I am more than some of my parts

5/10/13 1:42:57 PM#28

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

5/10/13 1:47:33 PM#29
Originally posted by Killbane
Burning crusade was definantly the golden age for wow. I started during BC and it took a lot of time and effort to earn your levels and progress. Every xpack after that just felt more and more like it was being handed to me and I wouldn't even have to do more than a quarter of the quest before I moved to the next zone. Everyone cries about a grind and if it takes a lot of work to earn something but yet since hardly any games in the US offer the grind anymore people burn through it so fast and the games are so easy that players just move on. Players need a grind whether they want to admit it or not they want to feel like there effort is accomplishing something. If it takes no effort they won't commit in the long term. The trick is to make it hard make it take a long time but be fun at the same time. That was BC for me since nothing else seems to hit the mark so I moved on.

 It's interesting. 

I remember people who started with vanilla would say the same exact thing, but starting with BC. 

 

It's like we're all a bunch of drug addict, we're always looking for that next hit that will give us the same feeling we got on our first.  Some of us even reaching a point that we've witched drugs altogether, and are still trying to get that same feeling back; unable to accept that it's unlikely to happen and if it does, we won't notice until a few years down the road. 

I think that's perfectly normal of us. 

 

 

Edit:  Some people become a little more bitter then others, unfortunately.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1207

5/10/13 1:50:46 PM#30
Originally posted by Kyleran
So I came to this realization just before BC came out, which makes me look smart and these folks look like slow learners.

Hard core raiders indeed.

Let me get this straight....you assume people raid because they don't realise they are chasing a carrot,?

Can it not be because they enjoy the challenge, competitiveness, and comrodory?

 

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

5/10/13 1:54:09 PM#31

there is only one problem and only one solution about wow or every wow style mmo. its only a word and mostly is a feeling. EPIC!

all ends when you stop feel epic. this is the point that you blindly play the game until you quit.

was tbc something special? imo, not at all. did it make you feel epic? HELL YES! despite you knew that you may never experience all the current content? HELL YES AGAIN!

if you want to make ppl feel epic you must accept that not all ppl will have access to all content of the game, or all gear and weapons. is this bad? for some maybe. for me not at all, even if i will be at the casual side, that will never reach top notch raiding or end game gear and weapons. i can feel epic for those that have the ability to be there. i can feel epic just to imagine how it will be to fight one of those epic fights, holding in my hands the sword of the final boss... but i cant never feel epic when every one, including me, farting in the face of the last boss dropping it dead. thats not epic at all.

anyway i like mop more than any other wow expansion but i never felt, even for a single moment, epic. either for me or for anybody or anything else in game. and thats a game breaker, either it concerns wow or any other mmo.

ending with a question. do you think if wow had as much accessible content as it was until tbc, would have 8.3m subs today?

imo, not a chance.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

5/10/13 1:55:55 PM#32
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Kyleran
So I came to this realization just before BC came out, which makes me look smart and these folks look like slow learners.

Hard core raiders indeed.

Let me get this straight....you assume people raid because they don't realise they are chasing a carrot,?

Can it not be because they enjoy the challenge, competitiveness, and comrodory?

 

 Didn't you read the OP, that's exactly what it is saying.

 

The treadmill moves to fast, slow it down.  To paraphrase. 

They want to slow down how often you get the next carrot.  It's just one idea for alleviate the chasing part of it, without removing it. 

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4823

5/10/13 1:56:10 PM#33
Originally posted by Katilla

the constant gear grind, only for them to patch the game and make it obsolete, or easier to acquire after i worked my ass of for items drove me away from this game.  The last straw was when i worked my ass off raising 500 gold to get my mount, only to spend it and then they patched it and made it super cheap.  I hit cancel and never looked back.

they are spoon feeding their community into a downward spiral and now i hate this game with a passion.

 They didn't made it cheap! They reversed the prices between riding skill books and mounts.

Instead of having cheap riding skill books and ridiculous expensive mounts, after years they finally reversed it by making the skill books expensive, but the mounts cheap.... so people could collect tons of different mounts they like.

Much much better imho. You still need to grind your ass off for the skill books, but at least you can collect tons of different mounts at a reasonable price.

  Battlerock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/11
Posts: 731

5/10/13 1:59:17 PM#34
So Exedus stopped raiding. Thats wlnot that interesting really is it? I know and knew who they are but what gives if they quit they quit. Everyone quits and comes back or moves on they are real people too
  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2422

5/10/13 1:59:30 PM#35


Originally posted by Kyleran
So I came to this realization just before BC came out, which makes me look smart and these folks look like slow learners.Hard core raiders indeed.

So, because these people decided to play in a way that you dont like you feel the need to insult them?


That because they didnt think like you they are stupid?

  Homitu

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2023

 
OP  5/10/13 1:59:44 PM#36
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by danwest58

<>

Good insight, and I agree that there will have to be some shift in how content is generated for players in order for a new game to be successful (and i don't mean break even). 

What I'd like to add is that this reluctance we see players in new "Themepark" MMOs is because the fatigue experienced in WOW transcends specific games, but carries over to similar gaming experiences.  We've seen it with Rift, Warhammer, GW2, SWTOR, and every other linear item progression based MMO that has tried to leverage the success WOW has had in the MMO market.  Once the new textures, player models & names of cities wear off (during the first month), you end up realizing that you're running the same darn delivery or "kill 10 of these" quests that you ran in WOW.

 

I completely agree with your point that any burnout experienced in WoW transcends all games of the same genre.  When I was done with WoW at the end of WotlK, I also couldn't get into other games I tried, like Rift, Aion or SW:ToR.  The burnout extended beyond just WoW.  (I found the burnout on quests worked similarly to the burnout on the raid treadmill.)  League of Legends filled my MMO void during this gap, as it was a refreshing and new type of game.  It wasn't until GW2 came along that I was actually able to get back into an MMO, and that's because it's different enough in some key areas that the quest/gear treadmill burnout just didn't apply. 

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1207

5/10/13 2:01:12 PM#37
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Kyleran
So I came to this realization just before BC came out, which makes me look smart and these folks look like slow learners.

Hard core raiders indeed.

Let me get this straight....you assume people raid because they don't realise they are chasing a carrot,?

Can it not be because they enjoy the challenge, competitiveness, and comrodory?

 

 Didn't you read the OP, that's exactly what it is saying.

 

The treadmill moves to fast, slow it down.  To paraphrase. 

They want to slow down how often you get the next carrot.  It's just one idea for alleviate the chasing part of it, without removing it. 

I read that a guild who raided for almost 9 years is stopping.

There is no denying brun out, iv taken quite a few breaks from WoW...but my point is that its arogant to assume raiders dont realise that they are on a tradmill....trust me...they are fully aware...

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

5/10/13 2:16:21 PM#38
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Uhwop

 

 Didn't you read the OP, that's exactly what it is saying.

 

The treadmill moves to fast, slow it down.  To paraphrase. 

They want to slow down how often you get the next carrot.  It's just one idea for alleviate the chasing part of it, without removing it. 

I read that a guild who raided for almost 9 years is stopping.

 There was a lot more to it then that. 

It had everything to do with repeatedly grinding gear only to obsolete the gear they already had, and indeed many of us didn't need nine years to "get it". 

 

Raiders have been complaining about doing what they like doing since BC released.  They want a progression and they want it to be infinite, without it obsoleting any previous progression. 

How does that not sound like a pipe dream to more people?  Why does it take some people so long to figure it out? 

The whole point of WoW is to collect gear; how much gear can you possibly put on your toon?  What else are you going to raid for in WoW?  3 months or a year to progress through the next tier doesn't really matter, as soon as people start taking old gear and discarding it for new gear, and as long as they've got some period of time between when they do this that they aren't doing it -and there's always going to be groups like the OP is talking about, that make it a point to work through the content as fast as possible because that's the point of "competitive raiding"- you're always going to have people looking for a solution to "the problem".

Many people figured out a long time ago that the only solution to this problem is to not raid.

 

Is the OP not "raising a problem", are they not attempting to offer up a solution to "a problem"?   I'm not sure why it would shock anyone that some people identified this problem 9 years ago.  9 years is a long time to take to figure something out. 

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1207

5/10/13 2:20:29 PM#39
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Uhwop

 

 Didn't you read the OP, that's exactly what it is saying.

 

The treadmill moves to fast, slow it down.  To paraphrase. 

They want to slow down how often you get the next carrot.  It's just one idea for alleviate the chasing part of it, without removing it. 

I read that a guild who raided for almost 9 years is stopping.

 There was a lot more to it then that. 

It had everything to do with repeatedly grinding gear only to obsolete the gear they already had, and indeed many of us didn't need nine years to "get it". 

 

Raiders have been complaining about doing what they like doing since BC released.  They want a progression and they want it to be infinite, without it obsoleting any previous progression. 

How does that not sound like a pipe dream to more people?  Why does it take some people so long to figure it out? 

The whole point of WoW is to collect gear; how much gear can you possibly put on your toon?  What else are you going to raid for in WoW?  3 months or a year to progress through the next tier doesn't really matter, as soon as people start taking old gear and discarding it for new gear, and as long as they've got some period of time between when they do this that they aren't doing it -and there's always going to be groups like the OP is talking about, that make it a point to work through the content as fast as possible because that's the point of "competitive raiding"- you're always going to have people looking for a solution to "the problem".

Many people figured out a long time ago that the only solution to this problem is to not raid.

 

Is the OP not "raising a problem", are they not attempting to offer up a solution to "a problem"?   I'm not sure why it would shock anyone that some people identified this problem 9 years ago.  9 years is a long time to take to figure something out. 

I dont think anybody is shocked, please re-read my entire post.

  Tamanous

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1629

5/10/13 2:27:11 PM#40

Ah good old Wow.

 

The game earns up to 100 times what other mmos make yet they put out content at no faster pace. Blizzard has been scamming it's player base for years.

You stay sassy!

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search