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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » No down levelling?? SERIOUSLY??

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91 posts found
  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2220

5/09/13 1:49:51 PM#81
Originally posted by AIMonster
Originally posted by udon

There is one really big one that does not have it.  Call it the 100 pound Gorilla in the room and is probably the main reason developers see it as a option not a requirement.  Also how many of those games had it at launch?  I have not played all of those games at launch but of the ones I have it would be 1, GW2 which is more a auto leveling to zone system than a auto leveling to other players.

I'm not excusing Cryptic of anything honestly.  I believe mentoring/level matching is really a core feature of a social MMO.  I don't use it often in EQ2 but I really appreciate it when I do.

I think all the Cryptic games, AoC, and EQ2 (or at least was one of the first to implement it along with CoH) had it at launch, but it's been a while since I've played those so I'm not 100% sure.  Yes, GW2 has an auto-level / level scaling system based on zone that isn't optional, but the end result is you can still play with friends without someone's experience and entertainment suffering as a result.  I understand a lot of people don't like the system though because it's forced on you and you can't go to low level areas and feel as "powerful" as you could with other games.

I personally expected it to be in Neverwinter since it was in every other Cryptic game, so much so that I was advertising the game to my gaming community with it in mind and before I knew it I was 30 levels ahead of my guildies and unable to play with them without carrying them through a low level dungeon or having them sit and do nothing while I run through a higher level foundry mission.

I think EQ2 is one of the best examples of it done right.  Not only can you downlevel to a player (I forget what they call it) and still earn rewards, but you can also temporarily set your level down to whatever you feel like to redo content in the game.  In EQ2 we were able to play with a group of people and never feel like we had to stop leveling or stop doing things on our own.

 Nope, I played EQ2 and AoC at launch neither had it at launch. CoH if i remember correctly did have it at luanch.

 

  For me what it comes down to is how much should F2P players be able to demand from a game at launch. This is not CoH, STO, or even EQ2, and AoC all of which one had to by the box and pay a subscription when they launched. Neither is it GW2 where one had to pay $60 up front if one wanted to try the game. So yeah I cut cryptic some slack. if I want to play with my guild i have 2 character both a high and a lower one since 10 levels is a pretty large spread that covers most of my rather small guild right now.

  I see alot of people demanding things, but while they maybe $200 founders I'm guessing its more likely they are F2P players that haven't spent a dime just here to complain that they aren't getting enough at launch free. In either case probably the best way to get what you want is to write cryptic and express those desires rather then QQ on a forum they don't seem to visit.

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2007

5/09/13 1:58:48 PM#82
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Elikal

Ok I just had the most unfortunate realization. I had queued for "Mad Dragon" Dungeon which I had not yet seen. While I waited (long!) in the queue, due to question I levelled up, and suddenly the note: "You have been removed from the queue."

WHAT
THE
FUCK?!

I mean, seriously? No downlevelling? No chance to just join a group even though you are a level or two too high? You aren't leaving that to ME, the player?

This isn't right and tbh it SERIOUSLY pisses me off, when I am locked out from content because of THAT!

THAT IS NOT FUNNY!

I actually CAME to a D&D MMO for the dungeons, for GROUP dungeons. What am I supposed to do while waiting HOURS in the queue? Knitting? Reading books? Of course I level!

 

Grrrr..

 Name a AAA mmo with downleveling, please?

Hellllo GW2?

Most MMOs it does take at least a little effort to lvl.  Neverwinter is is retardidly easy one sneezes and they gain a level and without batting an eyelash one outlevels a dungeon.

But to the OP, this is WAI.  For better or worse that is how it is.  And I don't buy the Chinese farmers excuse.  If that's the case then they should have made gear BoP instead of this idiotic BoE which just causes a greed fest n postings on the AH.

Even years old Everquest II had mentoring. Same as City of Heroes, and DAMN that was 8 (EIGHT!) years ago or more! Actually I prefer the voluntary mentoring over the forced downlevelling of GW2.

But come on guys, the idea is REALLY old. Everquest II did it ages ago. Do we REALLY have to ignore EVERY SINGLE accomplishment of MMOs ever and ever again!?

 

And yes you CAN go into the dungeon if you find a group via "zone" chat (and good luck with that!). But you'll not get any XP. Sorry I thought in 2013 MMOs should be a bit more complete and convenient, and NOT that we reset all we learned in previous MMOs every fucking single time. (Hello SWTOR....)

Sorry but you can do lower level dungeons AND the higher level player gets EXP for doing so as well. The trash mobs are scaled to the highest player's level. I ran a Crypt dungeon with a level 42 (while I was 27) and the trash mobs were scaled up to 42, but the boss was at his original level of 25. So you're wrong on both parts.

This is a little bit misleading, as I had done the same thing and all the trash except one spawned pull oddly enough (which stood out for us) was at dungeon level not level 60.  I think it was because I triggered the trash to spawn and it scaled level like the Foundry, but nothing else in the entire dungeon was scaled.  The XP is low and you steal XP from the lower level players if you bring a higher level into the group, but it's a fantastic way to get diamonds selling gear.

None of this really matters as a reason for not having mentoring/scaling anyway, as it's extremely boring having one high level do all the work in a dungeon while you can sit back and not contribute and not experiencing the dungeon at it's proper challenge level.  I can do the same in Foundry missions too, that doesn't make it excusable not to have this feature in a group oriented game.

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  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11241

5/09/13 3:14:57 PM#83
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by AIMonster

I think EQ2 is one of the best examples of it done right.  Not only can you downlevel to a player (I forget what they call it) and still earn rewards, but you can also temporarily set your level down to whatever you feel like to redo content in the game.  In EQ2 we were able to play with a group of people and never feel like we had to stop leveling or stop doing things on our own.

 Nope, I played EQ2 and AoC at launch neither had it at launch. CoH if i remember correctly did have it at luanch.

EQ2 did not have it at launch,

but EQ2 added the downscaling feature 5 months later in Feb 2005

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2675

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

5/09/13 6:30:47 PM#84
Originally posted by AIMonster
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Elikal

Ok I just had the most unfortunate realization. I had queued for "Mad Dragon" Dungeon which I had not yet seen. While I waited (long!) in the queue, due to question I levelled up, and suddenly the note: "You have been removed from the queue."

WHAT
THE
FUCK?!

I mean, seriously? No downlevelling? No chance to just join a group even though you are a level or two too high? You aren't leaving that to ME, the player?

This isn't right and tbh it SERIOUSLY pisses me off, when I am locked out from content because of THAT!

THAT IS NOT FUNNY!

I actually CAME to a D&D MMO for the dungeons, for GROUP dungeons. What am I supposed to do while waiting HOURS in the queue? Knitting? Reading books? Of course I level!

 

Grrrr..

 Name a AAA mmo with downleveling, please?

Hellllo GW2?

Most MMOs it does take at least a little effort to lvl.  Neverwinter is is retardidly easy one sneezes and they gain a level and without batting an eyelash one outlevels a dungeon.

But to the OP, this is WAI.  For better or worse that is how it is.  And I don't buy the Chinese farmers excuse.  If that's the case then they should have made gear BoP instead of this idiotic BoE which just causes a greed fest n postings on the AH.

Even years old Everquest II had mentoring. Same as City of Heroes, and DAMN that was 8 (EIGHT!) years ago or more! Actually I prefer the voluntary mentoring over the forced downlevelling of GW2.

But come on guys, the idea is REALLY old. Everquest II did it ages ago. Do we REALLY have to ignore EVERY SINGLE accomplishment of MMOs ever and ever again!?

 

And yes you CAN go into the dungeon if you find a group via "zone" chat (and good luck with that!). But you'll not get any XP. Sorry I thought in 2013 MMOs should be a bit more complete and convenient, and NOT that we reset all we learned in previous MMOs every fucking single time. (Hello SWTOR....)

Sorry but you can do lower level dungeons AND the higher level player gets EXP for doing so as well. The trash mobs are scaled to the highest player's level. I ran a Crypt dungeon with a level 42 (while I was 27) and the trash mobs were scaled up to 42, but the boss was at his original level of 25. So you're wrong on both parts.

This is a little bit misleading, as I had done the same thing and all the trash except one spawned pull oddly enough (which stood out for us) was at dungeon level not level 60.  I think it was because I triggered the trash to spawn and it scaled level like the Foundry, but nothing else in the entire dungeon was scaled.  The XP is low and you steal XP from the lower level players if you bring a higher level into the group, but it's a fantastic way to get diamonds selling gear.

None of this really matters as a reason for not having mentoring/scaling anyway, as it's extremely boring having one high level do all the work in a dungeon while you can sit back and not contribute and not experiencing the dungeon at it's proper challenge level.  I can do the same in Foundry missions too, that doesn't make it excusable not to have this feature in a group oriented game.

I stand corrected then, it must have been a glitch in the system. Either way though, at the neck break speeds that levels go by and because the game is still fairly new, it is not hard to find a group to level with. The only reason I would see the need for a higher level player to want to join a lower level group would be to complete quest they may have outleveled. Because so far by my personal observations the dungeons are neither hard, nor excessively long.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

5/10/13 3:07:11 AM#85

One game has something and that means all should? Honestly, I could go without a lot of the features added by newer mmo's, downleveling being one of them.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

5/10/13 5:39:46 AM#86
Originally posted by wordiz

One game has something and that means all should? Honestly, I could go without a lot of the features added by newer mmo's, downleveling being one of them.

in a themepark MMO what is the point of making all lower level content irrelevant to a player? you are cutting off 90% of what the devs made at max level. No devs can keep content coming fast enough for players and allowing them to go back and revisit and enjoy areas with friends or alone is HUGE in this type of MMO imho. Foundry does help a good bit though but even still i really see no reason an optional downleveling in this sort of game shouldn't be there

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Doogiehowser

Elite Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1930

5/10/13 10:13:38 AM#87
Originally posted by AIMonster

MMOs with some form of ability to play with each other through some system (be it upleveling, downleveling, level syncing to content, mentoring, apprenticeship, sidekicking, etc.):

Star Trek Online

Champions Online

City of Heroes

Everquest 2

Guild Wars 2

Final Fantasy XI

Age of Conan

Rift

Aion

Vanguard

Dragon's Call

Destiny Online

I'm sure there are plenty more here.  Most of these are AAA MMOs.  It's hardly an "uncommon" feature.  Not to mention every Cryptic MMO in the past has had this feature.

OP was talking about down leveling..not mentoring. How many games other than GW2 have down leveling feature? yes suddenly your list got very short.

Only because you lumped up all the mmos with mentoring system with one game with down leveling doesn't help your point in any ways.

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  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3031

5/10/13 10:20:52 AM#88
You can do all the dungeons at level 60.  I also joined to play in a group.  That's why my friends list is already full.  I know alot of people from other games that came to play this game, we always group up.  I've only been solo for like maybe 10% of the time, and that's usually at like 2am in the morning and for the starting tutorial hehe :)

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  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

5/10/13 10:43:40 AM#89
Originally posted by Wakygreek
I think down leveling is a good concept and could potentially be added to end game content, where you would get end game rewards based on how helpful you were to lower level players. It helps newbies coming in and it helps max level players as well.

Agreed, nothing kills a game faster than level restricted barriers to entry for new players.

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  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

5/10/13 10:44:39 AM#90
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by AIMonster

MMOs with some form of ability to play with each other through some system (be it upleveling, downleveling, level syncing to content, mentoring, apprenticeship, sidekicking, etc.):

Star Trek Online

Champions Online

City of Heroes

Everquest 2

Guild Wars 2

Final Fantasy XI

Age of Conan

Rift

Aion

Vanguard

Dragon's Call

Destiny Online

I'm sure there are plenty more here.  Most of these are AAA MMOs.  It's hardly an "uncommon" feature.  Not to mention every Cryptic MMO in the past has had this feature.

OP was talking about down leveling..not mentoring. How many games other than GW2 have down leveling feature? yes suddenly your list got very short.

Only because you lumped up all the mmos with mentoring system with one game with down leveling doesn't help your point in any ways.

It's part of the same reasoning though, being able to help and group with new players.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5511

5/10/13 12:13:04 PM#91
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by AIMonster

I think EQ2 is one of the best examples of it done right.  Not only can you downlevel to a player (I forget what they call it) and still earn rewards, but you can also temporarily set your level down to whatever you feel like to redo content in the game.  In EQ2 we were able to play with a group of people and never feel like we had to stop leveling or stop doing things on our own.

 Nope, I played EQ2 and AoC at launch neither had it at launch. CoH if i remember correctly did have it at luanch.

EQ2 did not have it at launch,

but EQ2 added the downscaling feature 5 months later in Feb 2005

This is true, but they didn't add chronoing/self-mentoring until many years later and there were heavy restrictions on how mentoring worked (mentored distance, who could mentor and benefit).  It took several years before the system became the robust entity it is today.

For me this argument is very similar to the comparisons between the content established games offer and what newer games provide.  It doesn't change the fact that WoW and EQ2 have a ton more to offer, but comparing them to new games and expecting those to offer the same amount and polish to their content is unrealistic.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

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