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Ragnarok Online II

Ragnarok Online II 

General Discussion  » just stoped playing because of vip

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32 posts found
  drivec

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/08
Posts: 89

 
OP  5/09/13 10:51:03 PM#1

Just wanted to know what others think about the VIP that can be bought from cash shop in ro2. 

 

seems this game has pay to win cash shop items specifically VIP

VIP gives 

+5 to all stats 

+10% hp

+10% sp

+20% movement speed

and one other effect that has to do with dungeons that i dont understand.

 

game is fun and i do spend money on free to play games such as world of tanks.

 

but i wanted to play it for the pvp and vip seems like a major pay to win item. 

  Seilan

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/30/04
Posts: 806

"Blue, blue."

5/10/13 5:34:32 AM#2
Originally posted by drivec

Just wanted to know what others think about the VIP that can be bought from cash shop in ro2. 

 

seems this game has pay to win cash shop items specifically VIP

VIP gives 

+5 to all stats 

+10% hp

+10% sp

+20% movement speed

and one other effect that has to do with dungeons that i dont understand.

 

game is fun and i do spend money on free to play games such as world of tanks.

 

but i wanted to play it for the pvp and vip seems like a major pay to win item. 

Wow, that's a huge let down. I'm almost thinking of saving this post just to show people what "P2W" actually is. They should take a look at Age of Wushu's VIP model. It gives a lot of advantages but nothing like stat increases.

I was thinking of trying this, but I might just steer clear of it now.

  melenone

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/11
Posts: 26

5/10/13 5:36:58 AM#3
Then buy vip and pay for a game for once.
  Seilan

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/30/04
Posts: 806

"Blue, blue."

5/10/13 6:06:51 AM#4
Originally posted by melenone
Then buy vip and pay for a game for once.

I don't have a problem paying a sub for a game if it's worth it, and in fact, I normally play sub based games because they're typically higher quality. This isn't about paying or not paying, it's about a game using a model that basically defines pay to win. You either pay, or you play at a seemingly large disadvantage. Whether that bothers someone or not, is an entirely different story.

I just think if they're going to advertise as "free to play" they shouldn't degrade character strength for those who don't pay. It's not the best way to entice people to play your game. There are plenty of lucrative designs for F2P models that don't involve stat manipulation.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

5/10/13 6:13:44 AM#5

what no gear that's better than what drops in game ? They looked like they were going for a clean sweep on the p2w thing.

I wouldn't touch this game with your 10 foot pole.  I almost always buy the sub version of free to play games but I wont pay money to a game that pulls this.

  Keitaro333

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/04/08
Posts: 36

5/10/13 11:16:31 PM#6
Originally posted by Seilan
Originally posted by melenone
Then buy vip and pay for a game for once.

I don't have a problem paying a sub for a game if it's worth it, and in fact, I normally play sub based games because they're typically higher quality. This isn't about paying or not paying, it's about a game using a model that basically defines pay to win. You either pay, or you play at a seemingly large disadvantage. Whether that bothers someone or not, is an entirely different story.

I just think if they're going to advertise as "free to play" they shouldn't degrade character strength for those who don't pay. It's not the best way to entice people to play your game. There are plenty of lucrative designs for F2P models that don't involve stat manipulation.

Exactly. They should stop calling P2W F2P. Its just dishonest marketing.

Its basically a P2P game with a unlimited-time free trial in which youre disadvantaged until you pay for the "full" game.

League of Legends model is F2P. This is not.

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

5/10/13 11:28:36 PM#7
Originally posted by drivec

Just wanted to know what others think about the VIP that can be bought from cash shop in ro2. 

 

seems this game has pay to win cash shop items specifically VIP

VIP gives 

+5 to all stats 

+10% hp

+10% sp

+20% movement speed

and one other effect that has to do with dungeons that i dont understand.

 

game is fun and i do spend money on free to play games such as world of tanks.

 

but i wanted to play it for the pvp and vip seems like a major pay to win item. 


Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  Keitaro333

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/04/08
Posts: 36

5/10/13 11:30:49 PM#8
Originally posted by Slappy1

Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

Sure it doesnt matter that much in PvE but the game has PvP right? It would definitely influence that.

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

5/10/13 11:35:01 PM#9
Originally posted by Keitaro333
Originally posted by Slappy1

Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

Sure it doesnt matter that much in PvE but the game has PvP right? It would definitely influence that.

Yes it would,but at the same time you could wait to max lvl and then pvp.At that point the bonus would be minimal.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  Deznts

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/05
Posts: 169

5/11/13 12:24:35 AM#10
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by Keitaro333
Originally posted by Slappy1

Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

Sure it doesnt matter that much in PvE but the game has PvP right? It would definitely influence that.

Yes it would,but at the same time you could wait to max lvl and then pvp.At that point the bonus would be minimal.

Wrong. 10% is 10%, regardless of if we are talking low level with 100hp, or high level with 10,000hp. Same for 20%, or any percentage for that matter. 

  Tuor7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/06
Posts: 741

5/11/13 1:53:28 AM#11
Originally posted by Slappy1


Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

How about we play a game of chess, and I'll just buy an extra queen for my side. No biggy, right?

What's the point of a game if the people in it don't all play by the same rules? Once you can buy better stuff using real life money, then it's not a fair game anymore.

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

5/11/13 3:26:29 AM#12
Originally posted by Deznts
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by Keitaro333
Originally posted by Slappy1

Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

Sure it doesnt matter that much in PvE but the game has PvP right? It would definitely influence that.

Yes it would,but at the same time you could wait to max lvl and then pvp.At that point the bonus would be minimal.

Wrong. 10% is 10%, regardless of if we are talking low level with 100hp, or high level with 10,000hp. Same for 20%, or any percentage for that matter. 

That doesn't equal ptw now does it?That's what this discussion is about.So yes,max lvl is max lvl and pretty much take's the win out of the scenario.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

5/11/13 3:30:22 AM#13
Originally posted by Tuor7
Originally posted by Slappy1


Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

How about we play a game of chess, and I'll just buy an extra queen for my side. No biggy, right?

What's the point of a game if the people in it don't all play by the same rules? Once you can buy better stuff using real life money, then it's not a fair game anymore.

That doesn't make it ptw now does it?

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  cybersurfr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 183

5/11/13 3:32:43 AM#14
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by Deznts
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by Keitaro333
Originally posted by Slappy1

Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

Sure it doesnt matter that much in PvE but the game has PvP right? It would definitely influence that.

Yes it would,but at the same time you could wait to max lvl and then pvp.At that point the bonus would be minimal.

Wrong. 10% is 10%, regardless of if we are talking low level with 100hp, or high level with 10,000hp. Same for 20%, or any percentage for that matter. 

That doesn't equal ptw now does it?That's what this discussion is about.So yes,max lvl is max lvl and pretty much take's the win out of the scenario.

So a VIP ranged can kite a melee at a 20% speed advantage - that's not P2W? Get a clue.

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

5/11/13 3:49:17 AM#15
Originally posted by cybersurfr
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by Deznts
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by Keitaro333
Originally posted by Slappy1

Many will see this as ptw,but what is the person with vip actually winning?From what I'm seeing the vip will have an advantage while leveling up,or at cap I guess.

If everyone is striving toward the same goal,what's the problem?Who care's if joe schmoe get's there first.You can argue that it can affect the ah and making gold (if there is one in this game).After the first couple week's that pretty much disappear's.

Sure it doesnt matter that much in PvE but the game has PvP right? It would definitely influence that.

Yes it would,but at the same time you could wait to max lvl and then pvp.At that point the bonus would be minimal.

Wrong. 10% is 10%, regardless of if we are talking low level with 100hp, or high level with 10,000hp. Same for 20%, or any percentage for that matter. 

That doesn't equal ptw now does it?That's what this discussion is about.So yes,max lvl is max lvl and pretty much take's the win out of the scenario.

So a VIP ranged can kite a melee at a 20% speed advantage - that's not P2W? Get a clue.

What are they winning?Are you saying the game can't be played without a speed advantage?It seriously seem's the grasp on what is ptw has been lost.A speed advantage or leveling advantage is convenience and nothing more.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  drivec

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/08
Posts: 89

 
OP  5/11/13 12:43:38 PM#16

slappy here is why it is pay to win.

 

if 2 evenly matched opponents face eachother and play perfectly or exactly the same. the person with 10% more hp is going to win because he has more hp.

 

another example. 2 characters with same end game pvp gear are fighting.  the person with vip does more damage and has more hp.

 

more damage due to +5 to all stats and able to live longer due to haveing 10% more hp. or fight 10% longer due to haveing 10% more sp.

  Keitaro333

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/04/08
Posts: 36

5/11/13 3:47:12 PM#17
Originally posted by Slappy1
Originally posted by cybersurfr

So a VIP ranged can kite a melee at a 20% speed advantage - that's not P2W? Get a clue.

What are they winning?Are you saying the game can't be played without a speed advantage?It seriously seem's the grasp on what is ptw has been lost.A speed advantage or leveling advantage is convenience and nothing more.

Ah, i understand now wheres the problem. You seem to think that "winning" means achieving maximum level/endgame.

Well that may be the case for you. For most people thats ridiculous. You can have maximum everything possible, if you go to the PvP arena to fight someone, the VIP player has a better chance to win the fight than the non VIP because of the stat advantage. In any game that takes PvP at least somewhat seriously, 10% to stats and 20% to movement speed is a huge difference and a complete balance breaker.

I wonder though. If you think clear PvP advantages arent P2W, what do you think IS P2W?

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5562

5/11/13 3:54:12 PM#18

So then is paying a sub to WoW P2W? If you don't pay to play, you are at 100% disadvantage because you can't play at all. 

 

It just sounds like a freemium model to me. Free to play at a disadvantage, pay to play on even footing. Are there P2W items in the shop that VIPs don't get access to?

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Tsuru

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/09/08
Posts: 255

5/11/13 3:55:58 PM#19

+5 to all stats is not game breaking. Thats like an average of 3 extra damage per hit. The Hp increase is the only thing that is a big difference. But when it comes to pvp, might as well take out all the other random factors like dodge, and deflecting, and crit, cause if anyone gets to many of those its gonna become imbalanced. (that was sarcastic if anyone couldn't tell) 

In the end its not that big a deal.

  Blackaddera

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 70

5/11/13 3:59:49 PM#20
actually the higher lvl the more te bonus counts in pvp.  If you take a low lvl with +/- 100 hp  without the bonus, then you get 110 hp with the bonus, at the highest lvl with aprox 10k hp without bonus you get 11k hp with the bonus and if what you say is right that you also get more ap then you're basicly impossible to kill to a player with the same gear.

the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

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