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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Breaking the lore

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93 posts found
  JackMack

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/23/13
Posts: 14

5/09/13 6:07:35 AM#81

For people who are lore enthusiasts: Thank you for paying attention and keeping Dev's honest...and,

 

Grow the hell up. If you went back to Homer and told him how awesome the Odyssey is he might say "Thanks, I was inspired by a story I heard from that old bastard over there".  And when asked the old bastard could say "Yeah, that's great, but that ain't the way I told the story to Homer".

In other words, how do you know the Elder Scrolls author of the "Lusty Argonian Maid" is the story's progenitor and not just the first person to put pen to paper?  Lorewise, the story could be a traditional tale 10,000 years older than we know, and adapted in different ways by different ages and cultures, just like so many of our own legends. Or, then again, it could just be a made up fable someone added into ES to put a little humor and levity into what is otherwise a pretty dark themed game. And of course this poor dumb Bethesda bastard never thought that you, The Simpson's comic book guy, would be keeping a detailed personal journal documenting each and every last word to hold as the holy word of Mitra.

To quote a more tenured poster, lighten up Francis.

  asrlohz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 648

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/09/13 7:57:45 AM#82
Originally posted by JackMack

For people who are lore enthusiasts: Thank you for paying attention and keeping Dev's honest...and,

 

Grow the hell up. If you went back to Homer and told him how awesome the Odyssey is he might say "Thanks, I was inspired by a story I heard from that old bastard over there".  And when asked the old bastard could say "Yeah, that's great, but that ain't the way I told the story to Homer".

In other words, how do you know the Elder Scrolls author of the "Lusty Argonian Maid" is the story's progenitor and not just the first person to put pen to paper?  Lorewise, the story could be a traditional tale 10,000 years older than we know, and adapted in different ways by different ages and cultures, just like so many of our own legends. Or, then again, it could just be a made up fable someone added into ES to put a little humor and levity into what is otherwise a pretty dark themed game. And of course this poor dumb Bethesda bastard never thought that you, The Simpson's comic book guy, would be keeping a detailed personal journal documenting each and every last word to hold as the holy word of Mitra.

To quote a more tenured poster, lighten up Francis.

Say whatever you will, but it was quite obvious to anyone who had followed the game since Morrowind. If you haven't played the game, don't try to make such silly points. What you are saying is that Crassius Curio copied word for word what someone else had written 800 years before him.

Edit:It's a perverse play written by a perverted mind and meant to be performed by actors. I doubt that in 10.000 years from now people will dig up your hentai collection and claim it to be a traditional tale told by our ancestors, generation through generation.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

5/09/13 8:16:52 AM#83

I might break your guys' hearts with this one, but I'll say 50% of the day 1 ESO buyers dont care about the Elder Scrolls story or havent played an Elder Scrolls game before, but are just looking for a new MMO to try or be attached to. And wont care about the story in ESO

 

 

  neroist

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 24

5/09/13 9:51:05 AM#84

The TES lore is one of my favorite things to study on in my off time. It is very vast and deep also strange. The thing is though they basically have an artistic licensing mechanic in play with the lore.  For those that do not know TES is all a dream of a mad sleeping god the godhead. Which makes just about anything possible.

For instance Tiber Septim  (avatar of Lorkhan) is CHIM. He mantled Lorkhan and became Talos a divine. CHIM is when something in TES knows and then understands that it is everything (a dream of the mad godhead)  but most importantly also retains its own identity. This is canon.

I for one do not like it when they break core lore such as Dark Brothers and Sisters killing each other and not being sent to the void. But that remains to be seen if everyone can join the Dark Brotherhood and go around killing each other.

But with all the power of a god. Who is to say what is possible when it comes to a god? And even more so a sleeping mad god's dream.

  asrlohz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 648

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/09/13 10:11:37 AM#85
Originally posted by hMJem

I might break your guys' hearts with this one, but I'll say 50% of the day 1 ESO buyers dont care about the Elder Scrolls story or havent played an Elder Scrolls game before, but are just looking for a new MMO to try or be attached to. And wont care about the story in ESO

 

 

Probably more than 50%, lad. But it is irrelevant to this discussion.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 2914

5/09/13 10:48:57 AM#86
Originally posted by asrlohz
Originally posted by hMJem

I might break your guys' hearts with this one, but I'll say 50% of the day 1 ESO buyers dont care about the Elder Scrolls story or havent played an Elder Scrolls game before, but are just looking for a new MMO to try or be attached to. And wont care about the story in ESO

 

 

Probably more than 50%, lad. But it is irrelevant to this discussion.

There is a point there. How much is this worth to ZM? How many writers do they have and how many lore masters do they have? With so few fans that care about the lore, how much should ZM? Or is their plan to be 70% on the mark? 90%? How much would it cost to get 99%? Is it money that helps decide this? 

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

5/10/13 3:43:53 AM#87

All the debate about 'how much inaccuracy in the lore' is acceptable or not misses a central point in my opinion.

Zenimax deciding having a guy with the title 'Loremaster' who goes on about ES lore?

That's a pretty basic marketing mistake if you have decided to play fast and loose with the very lore you are now emphasising - it does not do anything (good or bad) for the 'MMO or bust fans', and just irritates the significant numbers of lore-lovers everyone and his dog knows the IP has historically generated.

This is just the latest in a line of avoidable blunders really...

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

5/10/13 3:45:01 AM#88
Originally posted by asrlohz
Originally posted by hMJem

I might break your guys' hearts with this one, but I'll say 50% of the day 1 ESO buyers dont care about the Elder Scrolls story or havent played an Elder Scrolls game before, but are just looking for a new MMO to try or be attached to. And wont care about the story in ESO

 

 

Probably more than 50%, lad. But it is irrelevant to this discussion.

Not to mention entirely unprovable...

  Neherun

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/07
Posts: 169

5/10/13 4:19:18 AM#89

Did not read the 9 pages of thread; But in addition to those OP mentioned. There are more than a few notable TES characters in the lore who outlive the mentioned life expentancies without involvement of magicka. In addition to this, Thu'um has been part of the Nords culture, and surely it hasn't been forgotten during the 2E. No way its "memory of past." Tongues, those who know how to THOOM have existed throughout the recorded timeline, the thing is that the most skilled of them are typically converted into Way of the Voice and agree to its terms, and most of them go into selcusion at the throat of the world.

 

However, not every tongue (a character who knows THOOM) lives at the Monastery, so claiming that Thu'um is a forgotten piece of Nord culture is absurd excuse not to allow Nords to THOOM in game.

 

  Destai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 419

5/11/13 8:00:59 PM#90
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by asrlohz
Originally posted by hMJem

I might break your guys' hearts with this one, but I'll say 50% of the day 1 ESO buyers dont care about the Elder Scrolls story or havent played an Elder Scrolls game before, but are just looking for a new MMO to try or be attached to. And wont care about the story in ESO

 

 

Probably more than 50%, lad. But it is irrelevant to this discussion.

There is a point there. How much is this worth to ZM? How many writers do they have and how many lore masters do they have? With so few fans that care about the lore, how much should ZM? Or is their plan to be 70% on the mark? 90%? How much would it cost to get 99%? Is it money that helps decide this? 

You know, they could just go to UESP.net for FREE and research there. I don't care how many fans give a shit about the lore, it's a story/game set in the Elder Scrolls universe. Write accurate to that or don't bother at all. It's about integrity. If they can't be accurate to it, then why carry that label?

  ShortyBible

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/10
Posts: 214

5/11/13 8:35:55 PM#91
Originally posted by Akerbeltz

We are gonna dramatically alter a well-loved and deeply rooted lore and cosmogony as the "average common people that play just for fun" (registered trademark) don't really care about such nerdy things .

 

We are gonna change and castrate the mechanics and ethos of the Role Playing Genre to adapt it to a more arcade-ish format so the attention span of the "average common people that play just for fun" (registered trademark) can bear it.

 

We are gonna forget about the virtual world concept and make it more of a linear, story driven experience as we don't want the "average common people that play just for fun" (registered trademark)  to get lost a/o take decissions.

 

We are gonna make the game easy and guarantee that the "average common people that play just for fun" (registered trademark) can beat all the content as he or she has paid the same money as everybody else and we don't want he or she to become frustrated

 

We are gonna change the arts and aesthetics to make them more pretty so the "average common people that play just for fun" (registered trademark) can have pretty characters.

 

Etc, etc, etc.

 

The video game industry - due to a very obvious commercial interest -  is fighting a particular crusade to cater all its products to the "average common people that play just for fun" (registered trademark) who, to put it in a somewhat cartoonish way, is nothing more than a guy or a gal that watches the Karsadians, eats McDonalds, dreams with becoming famous, suffers from mild anxiety, cannot concentrate while reading and the so. In other words: A functional illiterate with a slight ADHD and delusions of grandeur.

 

The logical result are bland and dull products that lack all thrill, longevity and immersion. In other words: They lack Quality.

 

But as a famous author put it: Nobody went bankrupt for underestimating the intelligence of the Americans (nowadays this can be applied to all the West).

 

Have a nice day

 

 


Heavy :)

http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415

  baphamet

Elite Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2584

110100100

5/11/13 9:04:36 PM#92


Originally posted by JackMack
For people who are lore enthusiasts: Thank you for paying attention and keeping Dev's honest...and,

 

Grow the hell up. If you went back to Homer and told him how awesome the Odyssey is he might say "Thanks, I was inspired by a story I heard from that old bastard over there".  And when asked the old bastard could say "Yeah, that's great, but that ain't the way I told the story to Homer".

In other words, how do you know the Elder Scrolls author of the "Lusty Argonian Maid" is the story's progenitor and not just the first person to put pen to paper?  Lorewise, the story could be a traditional tale 10,000 years older than we know, and adapted in different ways by different ages and cultures, just like so many of our own legends. Or, then again, it could just be a made up fable someone added into ES to put a little humor and levity into what is otherwise a pretty dark themed game. And of course this poor dumb Bethesda bastard never thought that you, The Simpson's comic book guy, would be keeping a detailed personal journal documenting each and every last word to hold as the holy word of Mitra.

To quote a more tenured poster, lighten up Francis.


sorry, this post makes too much sense. let the complaining continue.......

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 2914

5/15/13 10:44:12 AM#93
Originally posted by Destai
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by asrlohz
Originally posted by hMJem

I might break your guys' hearts with this one, but I'll say 50% of the day 1 ESO buyers dont care about the Elder Scrolls story or havent played an Elder Scrolls game before, but are just looking for a new MMO to try or be attached to. And wont care about the story in ESO

 

 

Probably more than 50%, lad. But it is irrelevant to this discussion.

There is a point there. How much is this worth to ZM? How many writers do they have and how many lore masters do they have? With so few fans that care about the lore, how much should ZM? Or is their plan to be 70% on the mark? 90%? How much would it cost to get 99%? Is it money that helps decide this? 

You know, they could just go to UESP.net for FREE and research there. I don't care how many fans give a shit about the lore, it's a story/game set in the Elder Scrolls universe. Write accurate to that or don't bother at all. It's about integrity. If they can't be accurate to it, then why carry that label?

Thats the thing, this is common in just about any story. Changes happen even in lore as big as Star Trek and Star Wars. Heck its even happened to LotR. I agree it should be avoided as much as possible but this is very common. 

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