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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMORPG's released in 1997 and 2003 far more advanced than anything afterwards?

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71 posts found
  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11490

5/08/13 11:39:58 AM#21
Originally posted by Onomas

Phasing destroyed social aspect and interaction with players.... oh yeah thats a good one. Sorry but ill never touch a game with phasing.

Phasing can be done in a non disruptive manner

 

when EQ2 launched in 2004 -- it had phasing

 

EQ2s version of phasing:

players were able to see NPCs and objects that other players could not (depending on quest progression)  but EQ2 players could always see other players

 

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

5/08/13 11:44:12 AM#22
True Nadia, but in today's newer mmorpg's they keep you from seeing and interacting with players. That to me is a horrible feature for any mmorpg.
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2437

World > Quest Progression

5/08/13 11:47:02 AM#23
I think the technology has advanced a lot but the point of playing and how we interact with one another has regressed. That doesn't spell doom of course since the solo-centric linear MMOs have populated to the point of feedback inhibition lol.

The releases have slowed while, in an attempt to bring something different, less linear games are on the horizon. It's the natural order of a consumer limited market.
  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3088

I am more than some of my parts

5/08/13 12:02:27 PM#24

Thank goodness I don't play any of those 3rd mmo's with them ugly 3rd pixels. 

 

The games from that day are old and pathetic. People scrambling for those nostalgic memories of their first glimpse at online gaming just need to put on their rose colored glasses and look back at the wonder of it all.  If they are so great, why are you still playing them instead of complaining about the new games? 

 

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 509

5/08/13 12:07:22 PM#25

RPGs nowadays at lest has more advance about graphics.

 

But

People need to stop call those game "MMORPG" , it not MMO anymore.

Please let "MMO" term die in peace.

What called MMORPG now are online RPG , RPG play online , not MMOs anymore.

 

If things need to be simple to attract , then why they don't just cut off "MM" and leave only "ORPG" ?

There are no Massively multiplayer element in them , why call it "Massively multiplayer" online RPG.

Cut it down , only ORPG are enough.

 

I start to feel comparing old MMORPGs to nowadays RPGs are pointless.

They not even same gender

  MMOPapa

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 121

There's a reason you can't spell Deadline without the word 'dead'.

5/08/13 12:23:56 PM#26

Welcome to 'The Era of Retardation', I heard earlier that...

Originally posted by Drakynn

Going mainstream has ironincally hurt and retarded the social aspects of MMOs IMO.

...but that would be assuming that the only thing dumbed down was social aspects. Lets think about that for a second... in earlier games; were you able to run in on equally leveled masses and just PBAOE them down? Was kiting just a term for PVP? Were you able to go into dungeons without the proper abilities and leave with all the loot? Let's face it... going 'mainstream' made every aspect of the entire genre retarded and guess what? There's no turning back. The new 'majority' have no idea what losing a level is like... what being looted of all your gear is like... what it's like to die to three enemies of your own level because you're not some overpowered super hero... what it's like to assign your own attributes, traits, and customization instead of going on forums and looking up 'cookie-cutter builds'...

The days where death was something you nerd raged over is done. Today? You just run into a herd of 10 or more enemies and PBAOE them down without losing even fifty percent of your health. Yet even though there is still no penalty to dying, you've basically become immortal when going solo.

 

Welcome to 'The Era of Retardation'... get comfortable; majority rules and we're an endangered species.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19753

5/08/13 12:26:20 PM#27
Originally posted by iixviiiix

But

People need to stop call those game "MMORPG" , it not MMO anymore.

Please let "MMO" term die in peace.

What called MMORPG now are online RPG , RPG play online , not MMOs anymore.

That is too much world. how many websites have to change their text?

Just redefine it. Massive = can match with a massive number of people (like LoL). Then we are good.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15581

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/08/13 12:28:49 PM#28
Originally posted by Dauzqul
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
Utter garbage; MMOs are evolving all the time. Wax poetic for the past... Yes... Claim 'pure truth' ... Nonsense.

When people talk about EverQuest, Ultima Online, DAoC, SWG, we mainly hear good things.

When people talk about AoC, WAR, STO, CO, SWTOR etc...  it's 95% negative.

Unless we go back to when those games were in the spotlight. I wish SWG's OG forum was still up to answer to posts like this.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  tixylix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1110

5/08/13 12:45:28 PM#29
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Onomas

Phasing destroyed social aspect and interaction with players.... oh yeah thats a good one. Sorry but ill never touch a game with phasing.

Phasing can be done in a non disruptive manner

 

when EQ2 launched in 2004 -- it had phasing

 

EQ2s version of phasing:

players were able to see NPCs and objects that other players could not (depending on quest progression)  but EQ2 players could always see other players

 

EQ2 also got voice over work done right, all done in game when you had full control of your character. Not the stupid boring cutscenes of SWTOR where the rest of the world is silent and boring.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1372

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

5/08/13 5:19:20 PM#30

Onomas and MMOPapa, thanks for the great posts. /agreed.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  MMOPapa

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 121

There's a reason you can't spell Deadline without the word 'dead'.

5/08/13 10:25:19 PM#31
Originally posted by Arclan

Onomas and MMOPapa, thanks for the great posts. /agreed.

You flatter me. Thank you for the compliment. 

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

5/08/13 11:27:50 PM#32
Originally posted by Dauzqul
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
Utter garbage; MMOs are evolving all the time. Wax poetic for the past... Yes... Claim 'pure truth' ... Nonsense.

When people talk about EverQuest, Ultima Online, DAoC, SWG, we mainly hear good things.

When people talk about AoC, WAR, STO, CO, SWTOR etc...  it's 95% negative.

Problem is it's the same people doing the praising and hating. Give it 10 more years and this list will have shifted to the next set of games. Things are always better back in the day... Well these people reminiscing just brush over all the bad things that went on as well. Plus people get older and focuses change. Things I used to like are no longer on my radar now, but at the same time going back to them now would not work. Please just stop with the rose colored glasses tainting everything.

  rockin_ufo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 369

Zoraï

5/08/13 11:37:18 PM#33
Originally posted by Connmacart
Originally posted by Dauzqul
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
Utter garbage; MMOs are evolving all the time. Wax poetic for the past... Yes... Claim 'pure truth' ... Nonsense.

When people talk about EverQuest, Ultima Online, DAoC, SWG, we mainly hear good things.

When people talk about AoC, WAR, STO, CO, SWTOR etc...  it's 95% negative.

Problem is it's the same people doing the praising and hating. Give it 10 more years and this list will have shifted to the next set of games. Things are always better back in the day... Well these people reminiscing just brush over all the bad things that went on as well. Plus people get older and focuses change. Things I used to like are no longer on my radar now, but at the same time going back to them now would not work. Please just stop with the rose colored glasses tainting everything.

Except that won't be happening if all these MMOs keep sucking. How many people are actually enjoying some new innovative MMO right now? Whose gonna look back and say "Yes, I miss the days when games were like SWTOR and GW2"...I don't see it. Maybe GW2 in a small sense, but any other themepark? I highly doubt it.

Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

5/08/13 11:45:25 PM#34
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
Utter garbage; MMOs are evolving all the time. Wax poetic for the past... Yes... Claim 'pure truth' ... Nonsense.

What modern MMO has taken what UO began and evolved it?

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

5/08/13 11:57:51 PM#35
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
Utter garbage; MMOs are evolving all the time. Wax poetic for the past... Yes... Claim 'pure truth' ... Nonsense.

Incorrect, Graphics are evolving all the time and little else. Combat may be finally evolving after almost 2 decades but that does little to replace all the mechanics and features lost along the way. 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some mechanics and features presented in newer MMO's but they are mostly just trying to bring back some of the old school mechanics and features. 

Dynamic events are trying to go back to the days of live events that were held in MMO's. 

GM's, Developers, and EMs (Event Moderators) would actually log into Ultima Online and run events with a story and act it out. They still to this day run live events. When Stygian Abyss launched they held live events that had a story line that led up to the launch of Stygian Abyss that tied into it and made it all part of the games lore. 

While Dynamic Events are a bit of a nod to this I don't consider them an evolution of this. 

Same goes for the foundry in Neverwinter. 

 

These "new" and "revolutionary" mechanics and features are attempts at doing things older MMO's did but they are trying to find cheaper ways and ways that require less work for them to do them. 

 

We've lost a great deal of openess and freedom in our MMO's over the years. 

We've lost a great deal of interactions with the world in our MMO's over the years. 

We've lost a great deal of story (Sorry, SWTOR's story is ok and all but it's nothing compaired to live events and deep lore and such) in our MMO's over the years. 

 

I remember logging into UO and going to a library that I use to love on Lake Superior. The owner of the house had taken and copied numerous real life books into books in game. This was back long before Ereaders lol. I would log in and go to his house, buy a book and sit down in a chair in game and read while listening to Ultima's music. 

 

Newer MMO's do look better, but they have not evolved in many other ways. They've actually devolved a great deal. We've lost far more than we've gained. 

 

Hell, MMO's today struggle to offer 50 vs. 50 PvP most of the time and when they can do 50+vs.50+ it is a "feature" even though we had hundreds engaging in both PvP and PvE within close proximity back in the late 90s on dial up. Massive wars were fought in PvP, Devs gave us numerous live events where hundreds of mobs would attack a city that we had to defend and there were god knows how many players at these events. 

We've lost the ability to even put things on the ground in an MMO. 

We've gained graphics and combat and lost the world in the process. How is that evolving? 

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5249

5/09/13 12:32:17 AM#36
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
Utter garbage; MMOs are evolving all the time. Wax poetic for the past... Yes... Claim 'pure truth' ... Nonsense.

Incorrect, Graphics are evolving all the time and little else. Combat may be finally evolving after almost 2 decades but that does little to replace all the mechanics and features lost along the way. 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some mechanics and features presented in newer MMO's but they are mostly just trying to bring back some of the old school mechanics and features. 

Dynamic events are trying to go back to the days of live events that were held in MMO's. 

GM's, Developers, and EMs (Event Moderators) would actually log into Ultima Online and run events with a story and act it out. They still to this day run live events. When Stygian Abyss launched they held live events that had a story line that led up to the launch of Stygian Abyss that tied into it and made it all part of the games lore. 

While Dynamic Events are a bit of a nod to this I don't consider them an evolution of this. 

Same goes for the foundry in Neverwinter. 

 

These "new" and "revolutionary" mechanics and features are attempts at doing things older MMO's did but they are trying to find cheaper ways and ways that require less work for them to do them. 

 

We've lost a great deal of openess and freedom in our MMO's over the years. 

We've lost a great deal of interactions with the world in our MMO's over the years. 

We've lost a great deal of story (Sorry, SWTOR's story is ok and all but it's nothing compaired to live events and deep lore and such) in our MMO's over the years. 

 

I remember logging into UO and going to a library that I use to love on Lake Superior. The owner of the house had taken and copied numerous real life books into books in game. This was back long before Ereaders lol. I would log in and go to his house, buy a book and sit down in a chair in game and read while listening to Ultima's music. 

 

Newer MMO's do look better, but they have not evolved in many other ways. They've actually devolved a great deal. We've lost far more than we've gained. 

 

Hell, MMO's today struggle to offer 50 vs. 50 PvP most of the time and when they can do 50+vs.50+ it is a "feature" even though we had hundreds engaging in both PvP and PvE within close proximity back in the late 90s on dial up. Massive wars were fought in PvP, Devs gave us numerous live events where hundreds of mobs would attack a city that we had to defend and there were god knows how many players at these events. 

We've lost the ability to even put things on the ground in an MMO. 

We've gained graphics and combat and lost the world in the process. How is that evolving? 

This..

Recent MMO's have to put people in different 'phases' just to cope with numbers, its stupid. Eve Online can handle thousands of players in 1 area fighting each other, and yet most other games struggle to even handle 100 in the same area, if only game engine mechanics had kept pace with graphics.. i'd go one step further and say that any MMO that has PVP incorporated within it, must be able to handle at least 50 vs 50 or even 50 vs 50 vs 50 if its multiple faction based PVP,

though personally i think even that number is way too low, why can't we have battles involving 100's of players any more, if games are truly advancing as some people are claiming, why are we constantly getting less and less ?

 

  dgarbini

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

5/09/13 1:27:57 AM#37

This has happened in almost all genres of gaming hasn't it.  We have gained pretty avatars but lost game play along the way.  I find it very sad that games today are not focused on the actual 'game' part anymore.  Would would imagine that you bought a video game to...play...a game.  You either have wannabe failed movie producers like David Cage (and similar) or just full out fraud money grabs.

 

Anyways I agree with the OP, to me a good MMO is, a massive world, highly interactive, lots of things to do, a long term experience, more about the journey then the 'end game', lots of social aspects, highly complex systems, and so on.  I would a kin it almost more to a sim world then a rpg.  None of these are present in modern MMO's anymore.  And to those that think this is just 'rose colored glasses' why are most modern MMO failing?  Every year game worlds shrink, complexity lessens, social aspects diminish, if that is the trade for graphics then I say take them back.  If MMOs continue down this path of 'evolution' all we will have left is menial tasks and a few movies to break them up.

  Sigurd57

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/30/03
Posts: 344

5/09/13 1:47:16 AM#38

Early MMOs were a different beast all together.  The biggest reasons?  The quality of gamers ... and Money.  

 

Back in the late 90's early 2000's Online games weren't "Big Business" yet, it was a wild niche for the minority lucky souls who actually had internet connections and comptuers capable of connecting and playing.  Back when UO was all the rage, I was finishing Highschool and on to College.  Most the people at that time that I knew, didn't give 2 shits about a computer, internet, etc..  Our "Online Culture" was preserved then for the 'nerdy', and those who appreciated what it was.  The online world was a different place, full of a different type of people than we have today.  (That's a whole different topic..)   Sadly, a game like UO couldn't exist in today's market, the griefers, the screming e-peen kids, the instant gratification crowd, that really never existed back then..  But it's all the rage now.   Could you imagine what UO would have been like in '97 if today's WoW community were in it?   We'd all have a much different recollection of events and how the game played. 

 

The problem is, once the "Online Community" grew, along with it came the trash.  And that trash, brought with it the downfall of a genre.  Now everything has to be designed to hold your hand, limit your actions and guide your way... Why?  because today's average gamer couldn't handle the responsibility of an open PvP world with consequence, or freedom of choice and options.  They'd either exploit it, use it to grief to their maximum potential, or simple bitch moan and complain on the companies forums for any reason they can think of..  Which in turn, influences development... 

 

So see, a true Sandbox, as we like to fondly recall of our beloved old games, can't exist in today's 'main stream' market, and every investor or came company knows this.

 

Additionally, the companies who made the games back then did so with a passion and drive to make an awesome game.  But now that online gaming is a multi-billion dollar business, and everybody wants their piece of the pie, it's all about the quantity over quality, following whatever carbon-copy formula that will have the quickest turn around for the most profit.   It's not about the games anymore, it's about the $$. 

 

It's sadly a different world now.  UO was my life for the longest time, SWG took over when it released, yet sadly, those games, that gameplay, that level of depth are gone, we'll never see them again, because today's gamer, despite the minority of us who scream for the glory days, wants the instant gratification, sensless shallow gameplay, and mindless nonsene that has plagued the genre for years.   It won't change, because there's still too much money to be made off those gamers who don't know any different than what's available today.

Hey TSW Players http://www.unfair.co/ for Mission guides, Lore Locations and stuff....

  melenone

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/11
Posts: 26

5/09/13 1:52:43 AM#39
you should try age of wushu then....might touch your button.personally i like easy stuff in mmos im getting old
  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2571

5/09/13 2:02:38 AM#40

100% true. UO even had an ecology for god sake.

 

If something like SWTOR or AOC were released in 2001 it would have been laughed off the market, but our standards have fallen through the floor.

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