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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » EA Conference call: SWTOR with just under 500k subs, 1.7 million free to play

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306 posts found
  BadOrb

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 721

5/08/13 12:14:03 PM#161
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by dead2soon
I'd probably be more happy for them if they hadn't employed such creative number crunching in the past. Who knows what to believe to be honest. The smoke and mirrors is strong in this one.

This.  I'm guessing the release of the xpack that was roughly the same price if u added a sub as if u didn't and in time for the quarterly wasn't a coincidence.

Even though if people actually did that then their sub would have ran out in Feb as I said a few posts ago. Therefore completelly meaningless , unless of course by some miracle those that did then stayed subbed , which just puts tm in the under 500k category.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2125

5/08/13 12:18:22 PM#162

1.7 million FTP accounts, that figure is quite interesting to dwell on, don't you think.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

5/08/13 12:30:15 PM#163
Originally posted by CrazKanuk

The gaming industry is heavily project-oriented. Nobody in the industry maintains a staff of 1000 developers to maintain a project, not even Blizzard. 

 

MMORPG industry is quite a bit different than general gaming industry.   MMORPGs are in continuous development.

Bioware stated that their plan was to retain their entire staff and they would need 500k subs to be profitable while doing so. Well, they didnt retain their entire staff, they let go a lot of it.  This was absolutely due to the poor performance/poor product.  Now that the staff is smaller, they need less than that 500k number.  With the added f2p revenue they have more than enough.  Hopefully for the people that play the game they are hiring more people.

 

Blizzard has never had layoffs of the WoW team, and they have been expanding it.  they did lay off some of their CS team last year, which makes some sense because account hacking is no longer a big issue like it was prior.  

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

5/08/13 12:33:05 PM#164
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Vlacke Good numbers indeed.
Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

 

 

Not good at all.


 

most people couldn't care less what their development budget was or how much money they spent on marketing (still not as much as wow IIANM)

that is just an excuse to discount the people who are playing and enjoying the game.

 

 

Way more than WoW, plus the license.

I bet EA cares. When they decide to pull the plug because they still haven't made their investment back. An expensive game needs millions to be profitable.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

5/08/13 12:34:16 PM#165
Originally posted by Sasami
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Vlacke

Good numbers indeed.

Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

 

Not good at all.

Are you on drugs?!? SWTOR had higher numbers than Everquest ever for first year. So we are looking game with F2P and yet having 500k subs. Lets look other games such as EQ2 and Vanguard that has same F2P+sub model. I think SWTOR bets both in terms of F2P players and subs. Pretty good work. And bonus for EA for having balls to tell numbers unlike Sony or NCSoft.

They have the balls to inflate their numbers so that their partners don't dump stock, as EA stock has been in free fall. And no, it was estimated to have about 200k subs not long after launch, and they consolodated all the servers. If they have a bump now its because of the FTP launch.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15347

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/08/13 12:34:49 PM#166
Originally posted by DavisFlight

 

 

Way more than WoW, plus the license.

I bet EA cares. When they decide to pull the plug because they still haven't made their investment back. An expensive game needs millions to be profitable.

What indicates that this will happen? Nothing that I'm seeing says it will.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15347

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/08/13 12:36:15 PM#167
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Sasami
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Vlacke

Good numbers indeed.

Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

 

Not good at all.

Are you on drugs?!? SWTOR had higher numbers than Everquest ever for first year. So we are looking game with F2P and yet having 500k subs. Lets look other games such as EQ2 and Vanguard that has same F2P+sub model. I think SWTOR bets both in terms of F2P players and subs. Pretty good work. And bonus for EA for having balls to tell numbers unlike Sony or NCSoft.

They have the balls to inflate their numbers so that their partners don't dump stock, as EA stock has been in free fall. And no, it was estimated to have about 200k subs not long after launch, and they consolodated all the servers. If they have a bump now its because of the FTP launch.

Do you have any proof here, or is this just a hunch?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

5/08/13 12:37:01 PM#168
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

What exactly are you saying? Did you misread something or did you miss the part where it said that the revenues were doubled?

Hey guys! We doubled our profit! After we fired 80% of the devs and stopped almost all the development, and went free to play!

 

When a game is losing a company money, DOUBLING doesn't mean jack shit, because it wasn't making much to begin with.

 

 

Where did all this SWTOR defenders come from? It is universally regarded as a huge flop.

  jesteralways

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 514

5/08/13 12:38:24 PM#169
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by Dahkoht

So fans and folks whose lives are good because of SWTOR ,

How's it sit that they originally pre launch said (they as in the SWTOR devs) it would compete and possibly surpass WoW subs ?

I'd call 500 k vs 10 million predicted a failure in any measurement.

 

 

They did not surpass WoW subs. In this sense it was a failure. Someone wise said about lost love, I think it was M. Lackey in Vanyel trilogy: Just because you lost the greatest love it does not mean that you are not going to find happiness in a lesser one.

Maybe they failed to bring millions subs, but they have dedicated half a million of fans who love the game and who will stick with them to the end.

EA CEO said it back then : "We are going to kill world of warcraft". now look where they stand, it is a major failure, not just any failure. 

No panties, No Life

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15347

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/08/13 12:39:52 PM#170
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

What exactly are you saying? Did you misread something or did you miss the part where it said that the revenues were doubled?

Hey guys! We doubled our profit! After we fired 80% of the devs and stopped almost all the development, and went free to play!

 

When a game is losing a company money, DOUBLING doesn't mean jack shit, because it wasn't making much to begin with.

 

 

Where did all this SWTOR defenders come from? It is universally regarded as a huge flop.

What do peoples responses to you have to do with defending TOR? Is that some type of knee jerk reaction on your part?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15347

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/08/13 12:40:56 PM#171
Originally posted by jesteralways
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by Dahkoht

So fans and folks whose lives are good because of SWTOR ,

How's it sit that they originally pre launch said (they as in the SWTOR devs) it would compete and possibly surpass WoW subs ?

I'd call 500 k vs 10 million predicted a failure in any measurement.

 

 

They did not surpass WoW subs. In this sense it was a failure. Someone wise said about lost love, I think it was M. Lackey in Vanyel trilogy: Just because you lost the greatest love it does not mean that you are not going to find happiness in a lesser one.

Maybe they failed to bring millions subs, but they have dedicated half a million of fans who love the game and who will stick with them to the end.

EA CEO said it back then : "We are going to kill world of warcraft". now look where they stand, it is a major failure, not just any failure. 

Have a link to such a quote? I don't remember seeing that said by anyone from EA.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

5/08/13 12:43:37 PM#172
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by TheBlackWolf
I love how people in this thread just wildly make up sub numbers for older games, i didn't realize we were counting alternate universes sub numbers now.

It is a widely quoted number that EQ peaked at 500k subs, and Eve just broke 500k subs last week.

This game cost way more than any of them, and have an expensive IP to license.

There's a reason almost all the devs got fired and this game went FTP.

What exactly are you saying? Did you misread something or did you miss the part where it said that the revenues were doubled?

Hey guys! We doubled our profit! After we fired 80% of the devs and stopped almost all the development, and went free to play!

 

When a game is losing a company money, DOUBLING doesn't mean jack shit, because it wasn't making much to begin with.

 

 

Where did all this SWTOR defenders come from? It is universally regarded as a huge flop.

yet in brings in more money each month than any sandbox game ever has.

Its not like EA is losing money keeping SWTOR open, the game is certainly profitable on a month to month basis, my guess is *very* profitable.  You arent wrong that it was a big flop because of the expectations for it, but the chances of it making money in the long run are extremely high.  

 

Im not a SWTOR defender, just an idiot rebutter

  Doogiehowser

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

5/08/13 12:46:15 PM#173
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by jesteralways
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by Dahkoht

So fans and folks whose lives are good because of SWTOR ,

How's it sit that they originally pre launch said (they as in the SWTOR devs) it would compete and possibly surpass WoW subs ?

I'd call 500 k vs 10 million predicted a failure in any measurement.

 

 

They did not surpass WoW subs. In this sense it was a failure. Someone wise said about lost love, I think it was M. Lackey in Vanyel trilogy: Just because you lost the greatest love it does not mean that you are not going to find happiness in a lesser one.

Maybe they failed to bring millions subs, but they have dedicated half a million of fans who love the game and who will stick with them to the end.

EA CEO said it back then : "We are going to kill world of warcraft". now look where they stand, it is a major failure, not just any failure. 

Have a link to such a quote? I don't remember seeing that said by anyone from EA.

You know that you are posting on swtor forum sections of mmorpg.com right? go few pages back and you will see that i have been asking people to back up their facts and claims and not one person has bothered to do so. They just reply with more made up facts and conjecture.

You are expecting too much if you think these people would give you any reliable source to back up their ridiculous claims.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

5/08/13 12:56:05 PM#174
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Vlacke Good numbers indeed.
Good numbers? The most expensive MMORPG and the largest marketed one can't even beat EverQuest's old sub numbers? Can't even beat Eve?

 

 

Not good at all.


 

most people couldn't care less what their development budget was or how much money they spent on marketing (still not as much as wow IIANM)

that is just an excuse to discount the people who are playing and enjoying the game.

 

 

Way more than WoW, plus the license.

I bet EA cares. When they decide to pull the plug because they still haven't made their investment back. An expensive game needs millions to be profitable.

Not a ToR fan, check my post history, they won't close ToR because they haven't made their investment back, they will just write down the value of the investment as a loss in the financials and carry on taking the profit from he ongoing game. 

SWToR is probaby going to be a massive failure in terms of Return on Investment, but it only needs to cover its running costs to turn an operating profit.

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 978

5/08/13 1:20:01 PM#175
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by DaRoamer
Just announced on the EA 4th quarter conference call.  Subs currently sitting at just under half a million subs, 1.7 million new free to play players since Nov and doubled revenues.  Sub number still growing.

Well i can tell you that those numbers are slanted big time.How can they say 1.7 f2p since November?You can only goto level 20 and you can do that in anywhere from 2-5 days.So ALL thosee f2p subs from November are either done playing or don't care to play anymore.

That part should have been obvious,they were definitely trying to inflate  numbers here.So if they are willing to mislead the F2p,why would i think any different on the subs?They are probably counting every single sub they have had since November.

Approx 20 servers ,around 35k per server is around 700k total.I notice only the 9 US servers are busy but might be the time of day.

I would say still not bad,but not the numbers they are claiming.

Here is some REAL numbers.EA stock has fallen almost 40% since that November,this also lead to the recent STEP down or imo told to relieve himself of his duties CEO.If things are going well or holding steadfast,they don't drop that badly and people don't step down or get fired.

Almost all of the blame was on this game,so it is not doing as well as claim.

Uhmm no, you can play all the way to 50 for free, 55 with a 20 dollar purchase.

Nobody should pay attention to F2P numbers. Someone could create an account, login once, and never login again. To play devil's advocate, how else do you want them to present F2P numbers though? Its the same as GW2 and other MMO's announcing "boxes sold". None of those numbers mean anything, and should never be brought up as any sort of proof of active community.

The 500k subs on the other hand, is pretty impressive, and more than most people though titwould be at on this site. Heck, I got "called out" in another thread a couple of days ago for even suggesting SWTOR had around 500k subs.

Say what you want about EA and Blizz, but they (along with CCP) are the only ones announcing actual subscription numbers, and not just some arbitrary "boxes sold" or "F2P accounts" that everyone else does.

i agree on F2P accounts,,those numbers are almost irrelevant

but box sales(at full price)? in swtors case, 2.5 mio X 50$,,thats roughly 100 mio $ on the day, that they go live

if you didnt look at box sales,,swtor would look way better

in short: box sale -player decline= hype factor

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

5/08/13 1:22:33 PM#176
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by austriacus

No clue ...-_- I don't think he understands how many people that is for an mmo.

I cant talk about Tera currently or rift, but Aion is the WoW in asia with millions of subs and in the financialreport from NCsoft Lineage 1 was gaining  in Q3 of 2012(the same quarter GW2 released with 2 million boxes) the same amount as GW2

Lineage 2 is not far behind either. So yeah Swtor in terms of sub games is what...5th or 6th?

All this information is public by the way, just go to ncsoft page (owner of most of the games he listed)

Aion is F2P - no subs.

Lineage 1 - weren't all US servers shut down?

Lineage 2 is F2P hybrid ?? - please link sub numbers

I am of course talking about their eastern counterparts. Just trying to point out what he tried to mean. Not saying they matter in the west but in the big picture of things swtor is 5 or 6th.

  NL-Rikkert

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 121

Currently playing:Mount & Blade,Smite,Chivalry MW,LoL

5/08/13 1:23:42 PM#177
Originally posted by DaRoamer
Just announced on the EA 4th quarter conference call.  Subs currently sitting at just under half a million subs, 1.7 million new free to play players since Nov and doubled revenues.  Sub number still growing.

1. Not many people care about such numbers (in any game! not hating SWTOR)

2. Funny how these numbers are always created /  online every billion months accounts, not actually daily playing gamers.

STOOPID
When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17011

5/08/13 1:55:05 PM#178
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

Hey guys! We doubled our profit! After we fired 80% of the devs and stopped almost all the development, and went free to play!

 

When a game is losing a company money, DOUBLING doesn't mean jack shit, because it wasn't making much to begin with.

 

 Where did all this SWTOR defenders come from? It is universally regarded as a huge flop.

wait what?

Now, I hate that they laid people off. I do.

But if a game "was" losing money, and now it is not only making a "profit" but it's double what their initial "profit" was then that's a huge deal.

 

  DaRoamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 252

 
OP  5/08/13 3:22:57 PM#179
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by C_Glass

I enjoy watching the negative nancies squirm at these numbers, and who knows how much cash the cash shop is generating off the f2p and sub players. 

 

Hey, bitter worts, guess what? This game is going to continue on being a success, and you guys will continue to hate. Who wins? You're still on these forums more than a year later complaining about a game you don't play because your lives are empty, good job. 

I don't squirm at the numbers, only the people like you who do not get what the numbers mean and think the numbers are great.

These numbers would be great for many other P2P MMOs, but SWTOR needs a whole lot more as EA said that they needed 500K subs to break even. If Vanguard needed that many it would not have survived long, the reason Vanguard suvived many years as P2P is because it did not need many players.

When you look at the numbers of some other F2P MMOs, these are pathetic in comparison. Clone Wars Adventures got 8 million accounts in the first year, and 10 million by the 2nd year.

Unless they come up with some awesome new content,  then game is just going to continue to drop subs. There is no awesome new content coming as of yet.

 

You seem to lack basic reading comprehension.  The exact quote was posted in this thread:

"At half a million subscribers, the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing we would write home about," EA CEO John Riccitiello said in a conference call accompanying EA's third quarter fiscal earnings report Feb 2011.

Now consider they they've reduced their staff since then and that sub are only a PART of the money they are making.  The game is doing very well right now. 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10427

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/08/13 3:26:48 PM#180


Originally posted by Torgrim
1.7 million FTP accounts, that figure is quite interesting to dwell on, don't you think.




Oh wow, I thought it was 1.7 million players, with 500k being subscribers. It's 2.2 million players, with 500k being subscribers. That's a crazy number of players.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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