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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Why even have relms? (Question everything ;)

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40 posts found
  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2096

joie de vivre

 
OP  5/07/13 10:59:21 PM#1

If you want the long version see my blog

Short version, why even have relms? Many of the older games didn't have factions, but you could flag yourself to sort it out via guilds and such. So why even force them on us?

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas/052013/25076

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

5/07/13 11:04:24 PM#2
Guilds are exclusive.  Realms are inclusive.  Nothing more to it than that, IMO.  RvR creates an entirely different sort of community than that of a GvG or optional faction system.  Not to say those two other systems aren't valid in their own right.
  Vladamyre

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/07
Posts: 240

5/07/13 11:04:39 PM#3
Originally posted by Tierless

If you want the long version see my blog
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas/052013/25076

Short version, why even have relms? Many of the older games didn't have factions, but you could flag yourself to sort it out via guilds and such. So why even force them on us?

For starters there are 3 realms all fighting for control, there isn't mercenaries or sellswords. So I don't know what to tell you. If you want to flag yourself for pvp combat I think you should be playing wow.

In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  fanglo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 280

5/07/13 11:18:12 PM#4
I think it would be cool if you could create more factions in a game, as long as it wasn't easy to do. Maybe something crazy like 5 alliances come together to form a new faction (each alliance requires 5 guilds), population of all involved must be greater than 2000 players. Something like that to make it so that a new faction has meaning and there wouldn't be more than  a couple factions created.

I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

5/07/13 11:24:23 PM#5
Originally posted by redcapp
Guilds are exclusive.  Realms are inclusive.

I've been trying to explain why I like RvR better than GvG to people for years... and you just did it in two simple sentences.  Kudos, my friend!  Kudos!

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Baramos79

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 69

5/07/13 11:27:07 PM#6
I would rather have a factionless game, but if there has to be factions, I would rather have 3 than 2.
  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2096

joie de vivre

 
OP  5/07/13 11:28:31 PM#7

FYI the stance I took in the blog was why? My personal opinion differs from the blog in that I think without relms you end up with ginormous guild taking over servers. Relms balance things out as good as anything.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

5/08/13 12:06:54 AM#8
Originally posted by fanglo
I think it would be cool if you could create more factions in a game, as long as it wasn't easy to do. Maybe something crazy like 5 alliances come together to form a new faction (each alliance requires 5 guilds), population of all involved must be greater than 2000 players. Something like that to make it so that a new faction has meaning and there wouldn't be more than  a couple factions created.

The repopulation does this IIRC, or something to that effect anyway.  There are two base factions, and a third which is neutral, that essentially allows players to create their own factions.  Something like that at least.

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

5/08/13 12:30:55 AM#9

People will probably call me crazy, but I actually think some developers on EQ2 stumbled onto an idea that could have had potential (clearly accidentally since thereafter they worked actively against any potential that idea might have had).

 

In short, there were two factions (though you could do it with three as well), and while you could move from one to the other, you did so by joining an "exile" faction in between.  That exile faction was FFA.  Guilds that joined the exile faction fought against both sides and each other.

 

Properly utilized, that kind of dynamic would allow for smaller guilds and unguilded players to fight within the 2-3 starter realms, while also letting the strongest guilds go off on their own and create additional "mini-factions".

 

But of course you would have to have some sort of benefit or reward actively motivating those strong guilds to go off on their own for that sort of system to work.

 

Honestly dont know if it would work well or not, I dont really know if the idea has ever been tried properly before.  Just always found it interesting.  Not a great fit for CU perhaps, but interesting nonetheless.

 

Completely aside from that, Im guessing that we'll end up with a regular FFA server for CU at some point down the road if the game is a success.  The demand is there.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

5/08/13 1:00:51 AM#10

yea i think the faction system better accommodates small guilds and new players, I dislike been apart of large guilds and even apart of large alliances can be anoying on over complicate things....the idea of have 2 factions then players been able to go off on their own does sound like a decent compromise though.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

5/08/13 1:52:40 AM#11

Cause 3 realms works really well. Everyone is always outnumbered.

More than 3 would be cool but 3 has proven to be that magic minimum.

  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

5/08/13 5:28:09 AM#12
Because the niche of players who want a GvG game is smaller than the niche who want a RvR game and CU wouldn't have funded if it was designed to be a GvG game. GvG and FFA PvP games typically fail hard because they are only fun for hardcore players and only for a short period of time. If you are going to make an RvR game, then previous RvR games have shown that having 3 realms works better than 2 realms. Hence CU is a 3 realm RvR game. Next question....

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/08/13 5:56:59 AM#13
Lol voluntary flagging

It's a pvp game! What would be the point of not being flagged.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/08/13 6:01:22 AM#14
Although I do think it would be cool if they had introduced a 4th faction, like the holy Roman empire or something. To make it really stand out as camelot +
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/08/13 6:04:55 AM#15
I like ffa in eve, because eve just works.

Being an eu player I've had bad experiences in other takes that use gvg. Best example being Aoc, where there was thus huge Russian guild that had like half the players on the server.

Ffa works in eve because its one big huge world wide server.

When your talking individual servers locked to regions, you can end up with huge nationalist guilds that take over. Gvg can be just as unbalanced as fvfvf, or even more so.
  professornomos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/13
Posts: 67

5/08/13 7:03:56 AM#16
Originally posted by Tierless

FYI the stance I took in the blog was why? My personal opinion differs from the blog in that I think without relms you end up with ginormous guild taking over servers. Relms balance things out as good as anything.

 

FYI,  you should have posited in the OP and as well in your thesis that the blog post was a rhetorical excercise.  It encourages the reader to engage in thinking before posting.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2096

joie de vivre

 
OP  5/08/13 9:02:01 AM#17


Originally posted by professornomos

Originally posted by Tierless FYI the stance I took in the blog was why? My personal opinion differs from the blog in that I think without relms you end up with ginormous guild taking over servers. Relms balance things out as good as anything.
 

FYI,  you should have posited in the OP and as well in your thesis that the blog post was a rhetorical excercise.  It encourages the reader to engage in thinking before posting.


Noted, will do from now on, I'm newb at this, bear with me.

As for a 4th faction, I was interested in an outlaw faction that is KOS to the other 3 factions. Some players, like my EVE friends exist simply to create chaos and anarchy for all and they are proud of it. "Some men just want to see the world burn."

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  tlear

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 143

5/08/13 9:06:59 AM#18
Eve is a very specific case that works, unfortunately the normal evolution of such games is 2 sides crystalizing then waging all out war followed by one side "winning", followed by people quitting en mass from both sides. Shadowbane as much as I liked that game was a textbook case of that. Server life span was about 4 month? It did lead to some truly epic struggles that DAOC did not really have because outcome was extinction and not capping relic. 
  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1169

5/08/13 9:10:30 AM#19

Someone mention Relm?

  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

5/08/13 9:17:45 AM#20
Originally posted by Tierless

As for a 4th faction, I was interested in an outlaw faction that is KOS to the other 3 factions. Some players, like my EVE friends exist simply to create chaos and anarchy for all and they are proud of it. "Some men just want to see the world burn."

I would have liked to see an Asian realm in CU rather than having the same realms as DAOC. It would have been easy to merge TDD and Arthurians into one realm and then add Chinese or some other totally different realm as the 3rd. 4 realms probably wouldn't be feasible because there would be that much more work to create a 4th set of classes, races, capital city, etc. You'd probably end up with one of the realms in a 4 realm system being very sparsely populated too (it might vary which realm on each server). There's a better chance for every realm to be competitive with only 3 of them.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

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