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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Proof of sandbox popularity?

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228 posts found
  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1285

5/07/13 2:21:40 PM#21

People have different definitions of "Sandbox".

A lot of people think of extremely hardcore and unforgiving games like Mortal Online, Darkfall, and Eve as "Sandbox".

 

I consider myself a Sandbox fan. However, I don't want some blank of empty world. I want loads of content and loads of player-driven social features, e.g., player cities, open worlds, world pvp, world housing, cantinas / taverns with incentives to hangout, gambling games, dancing, player shops, extremely deep crafting etc....

I want it all...

These days, gaming is so one-sided. If it's 100% Theme Park, it's boring. If it's 100% Sandbox, it's boring.

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

5/07/13 2:22:01 PM#22
Originally posted by Zorgo

Just keep in mind that the only 'proof' here will be:

what active posters on mmorpg prefer (and only if they came across this thread). 

 

This isn't a random enough sample or comprehensive enough with tight enough controls to definitively 'prove' anything.

 

Most polls aren't that accurate, at least its somewhat accurate.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Tierless

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

5/07/13 2:22:19 PM#23

Thinking more about that Ref its pretty sad that since WOW we saw so many clones, yet 0 games were able to retain because they were all so bland. The only way to cook food that EVERYONE likes is to make it bland, the problem with bland food is its not very memorable. Sure you kept from turning people off, but you also neglected to give people a reason to order it again.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3910

5/07/13 2:22:41 PM#24
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
EVE Online is pretty popular, but it's a niche audience for sure. It just happens that people who prefer that niche are extremely loud on these forums. 

Without using the word WoW, name a themepark that has more subs.

GW2... oh wait... no sub required...more players though.

Your saying GW2 which sold what 3-4 million boxes. and no count of active players,  has more players than WoW which currently sits at about 10 million active accounts/players.

Read it again. Slowly this time.

I am you said GW2, no sub required, more players though.  Stating that GW2 has more players.  That would be wrong. 

Dude! He asked what themepark, other tha WOW, has more subs than EVE.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2593

5/07/13 2:25:02 PM#25
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Is there any proof that sandboxes are popular at all?

 

\
The only two MMOs with growing subs and companies behind them are sandbox MMOs (Eve, Darkfall)
 
  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4851

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/07/13 2:26:54 PM#26
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
EVE Online is pretty popular, but it's a niche audience for sure. It just happens that people who prefer that niche are extremely loud on these forums. 

Without using the word WoW, name a themepark that has more subs.

GW2... oh wait... no sub required...more players though.

Your saying GW2 which sold what 3-4 million boxes. and no count of active players,  has more players than WoW which currently sits at about 10 million active accounts/players.

Read it again. Slowly this time.

I am you said GW2, no sub required, more players though.  Stating that GW2 has more players.  That would be wrong. 

Dude! He asked what themepark, other tha WOW, has more subs than EVE.

allready edited

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1573

5/07/13 2:27:56 PM#27
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Is there any proof that sandboxes are popular at all?

 

The only proof of sandboxes being popular is that every new game gets some people on mmorpg.com begging for it to become a sandbox, and the same people scoffing any game thats not a sandbox... 

 

But how popular are Sandboxes?  just wondering if someone ever somewhere did a decent poll about this?

You really think mmo's start and end on mmorpg.com? Age Of Wushu has over 15 million players.

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  nbtscan

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 488

5/07/13 2:27:59 PM#28

I grew up with console RPGs where you had a somewhat linear story with some side quests you could partake in, so I think Theme Parks are built more towards what I want in an MMORPG.  I've tried playing games such as Elder Scrolls and couldn't get into them because they're TOO open.

 

To answer the housing poll, it's not a deal breaker for me, but it's a really nice function to have.  I think it's going to start becoming a standard feature for all MMOs before long.

  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4851

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/07/13 2:29:07 PM#29
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Is there any proof that sandboxes are popular at all?

 

\
The only two MMOs with growing subs and companies behind them are sandbox MMOs (Eve, Darkfall)
 

And Eve grew to be... only a little more than the average themepark.  And Darkfall, which just released will grow to be... a little less than the average themepark.

Developer choice - make game A sell 1-2 million on release and then drop to 50-500k players and sustain that.

                                        or Game B - sell 40-100k and raise to 50-500k and sustain that.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Tierless

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

5/07/13 2:32:53 PM#30

Still not there yet...lets try this.

Class vs Skill Based?

Class Based!
Skill Based!
Dont Care
(login to vote)

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

5/07/13 2:33:20 PM#31

there is absolutely zero proof

EvE is impressive, but more people play SWTOR than EvE (of course they are willing to pay for EvE

Games like Ryzomm never took off.

 

On the flip side, SWG at launch was absolutely terrible in most aspects, but it maintained 300k people until the CU/NGE.  Imagine if it actually had some semblance of balance to it?

 

I think there is just a market for well made games.  There really has only been a couple well made sandboxes (EvE, UO).  I think a well made fantasy PvE-centric sandbox would be a hit because it fills a huge void.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3910

5/07/13 2:36:28 PM#32
And another thing... Comparing "subs" is becoming increasingly pointless with all the F2P games out and coming. Even EQ Next won't have subs. Player hours per month would be what you want to compare, but we have even less trustworthy data about that than the routinely exaggerated sub numbers.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10924

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/07/13 2:37:42 PM#33

I think there's plenty of proof that sandbox style game play is popular, just not in an MMO setting.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15730

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/07/13 2:38:15 PM#34
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Is there any proof that sandboxes are popular at all?

 

\
The only two MMOs with growing subs and companies behind them are sandbox MMOs (Eve, Darkfall)
 

How many MMO's are there left that have a sub only option? How many can we actually add to this list outside of EVE and Darkfall? WOW, Rift, WH?

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  krage

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 415

5/07/13 2:38:55 PM#35

I dont know why the two must be separate, imo I would like a hybrid that has linear themepark levelling/training experience that expands on the worlds lore and systems. That then leads into an open ended sandbox with player created content or even GM lead events that then leads back into an evolving story of the world...where that living lore is then translated into themepark expansions. Basically:

Start Themepark-----> Sandbox endgame ------>expansion themepark content builds from sandbox evolution-----> back to sandbox------>on and on and on.... lol

I think there is definitely room for both, problem I see with most games is they focus on doing only one.

Themepark games end up with themepark endgames that are very repetitive with artifical timesinks to extend the content

and

Sandbox games that are so broad from the start that it has player retention issues and a massive tendency to focus on open world pvp (which I am a fan of) that leads to intimidation of the larger portion of mmo crowds...being pve'rs/explorers/merchants...non hardcore pvpers.

 

When a company finally mixes the two styles successfully we will see a solid virtual world/mmo instead of a big unguided bludgeonfest (Current Sandboxes) or uninspired gear treadmill timesinks (Themeparks).

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3505

5/07/13 2:42:50 PM#36
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Is there any proof that sandboxes are popular at all?

 

The only proof of sandboxes being popular is that every new game gets some people on mmorpg.com begging for it to become a sandbox, and the same people scoffing any game thats not a sandbox... 

 

But how popular are Sandboxes?  just wondering if someone ever somewhere did a decent poll about this?

You wrote sandboxes, not sandbox MMO's. The freedom of choice, even if it is just the option to ignore the main lineair quest (Skyrim) is quite popular. 

- Minecraft sold millions. This game on its own should say enough. It is not a MMO, but it is played on servers. Servers with loads of different themes (not all based on vanilla and/or pvp). Techbased (heavily modded to have machines and very smart automation), creative based (mainly building), adventure based (heavily modded), pvp based (hunger games), or any combination of that.  You cant' get more freedom in a game then with this one. You as player determine what features you want to have. As server admin you determine the rules and features. 

- Skyrim sold millions Can debate if this is a sandbox, but the game offers a lot of freedom for a rpg.

- The Sims franchise sold millions.

Anyway, sandbox MMO's have not been popular. One possible reason for this could be that the sandbox genre isn't popular enough. Another possible reason is that the sandbox MMO's untill now simply weren't good enough (which is my opinion).

I think that a good sandbox MMO is just very difficult to create. What doesn't help is that a lot of players assume that sandbox MMO = FFA PVP. FFA PVP is just another possible feature. It is not mandatory because I think that there are no specific requirements for a sandbox game.

  jinxxed0

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 846

5/07/13 2:43:57 PM#37

You need more options.

 

The genre is over saturated with *casual* themeparks very few decent sandboxes and non-casual themeparks. There's nothing wrong with casual games, but that's all that's being made now. it's sicking. Today's average MMO player just wants everything handed to them on a silver plater while the devs hold their hand thtough a half assed story that makes everyone the same character because of the forced story line instead of letting each player play out their story while some attempt be the hero instead of the story just magically making every single player the chosen one.

  DamonVile

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

5/07/13 2:44:26 PM#38
how many ppl actually think mmorpg.com represents your avg mmo gamer ?
  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/07/13 2:44:59 PM#39
I really don't see the point of this poll personally.All it will prove is that a active group on this site prefers one or the other.It would in no way constitute proof either way when applied to the whole market.
  H3deon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/13
Posts: 37

5/07/13 2:46:30 PM#40

did vote sandbox, but there will be alot who would claim I aint a "real sandbox" player, so well....since the definition of sandbox is so vague this poll will proof nothing but the disagreement of what makes a good sandbox/themepark.

personally just dont care for the disjoint,,,singleplayer quest chains and now and then group instances.

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