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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » THE411 on NeverWinter "pay2win"

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123 posts found
  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

5/07/13 10:53:20 AM#61
Originally posted by Shazzel

To create the strongest Enchantment possible, it will cost 160 dollars and 64 shards. Unlike companions, these can be used in PvP.

Yuck...so much for my hope for good pvp...


  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

5/07/13 10:54:48 AM#62
Originally posted by Pandaman102
Originally posted by Vannor

It's no secret that paying will get you there quicker.. but some people blow that out of proportion. They make it sound like it's almost impossible or will take months if you don't pay. It's just not true.

Impossible is certainly a stretch, but why do you say months isn't true?

Let's assume the Astral Diamonds exchange rate drops to 250 AD per ZEN, like it did Dilithium/ZEN in STO and Questionite/ZEN in CO. With two characters, you have a cap of 48000 AD per day, which is 192 ZEN per day.

To Mount Training at 110% you need 2,832,000 AD, which is 59 days of grinding using both characters.

To get a 4000 ZEN epic mount you need another 21 days.

To get a 3500 ZEN epic pet you need another 19 days.

You only really need Coalescent Wards for the last two ranks of an enchantment, so 5 wards at $10 means another 26 days for each rune and enchantment. Let's assume you're making one for your pet, one for your armor, and another for your weapon, so 78 days in total.

That alone comes to 177 days minimum, doesn't that count as "months"?

 

well said lad

  123443211234

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 220

5/07/13 11:14:22 AM#63
Anyone that knows anything about Perfect World Entertaninment knows that their games are always P2W.
  Xiaoki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2371

5/07/13 11:23:16 AM#64


Originally posted by Pandaman102

Originally posted by Vannor It's no secret that paying will get you there quicker.. but some people blow that out of proportion. They make it sound like it's almost impossible or will take months if you don't pay. It's just not true.
Impossible is certainly a stretch, but why do you say months isn't true?

Let's assume the Astral Diamonds exchange rate drops to 250 AD per ZEN, like it did Dilithium/ZEN in STO and Questionite/ZEN in CO. With two characters, you have a cap of 48000 AD per day, which is 192 ZEN per day.

To Mount Training at 110% you need 2,832,000 AD, which is 59 days of grinding using both characters.

To get a 4000 ZEN epic mount you need another 21 days.

To get a 3500 ZEN epic pet you need another 19 days.

You only really need Coalescent Wards for the last two ranks of an enchantment, so 5 wards at $10 means another 26 days for each rune and enchantment. Let's assume you're making one for your pet, one for your armor, and another for your weapon, so 78 days in total.That alone comes to 177 days minimum, doesn't that count as "months"?



He's using MATH to prove things!!!


He's a witch, burn him at the stake!!!

  Doozerglue

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 36

5/07/13 11:50:46 AM#65

Pay $60 to $70 U.S. dollars up front for a Sub based model then calculate your 17 U.S. dollars a month sub fee (I live in AZ and am charged tax on my subs that are based in CA).  After taxes you come in right around $275 dollars for a year of game play.  So what's the difference?  Let's not forget that some of these sub based games also have cash shops of their own on top of the subscription.  You can buy mounts in WoW too.

I play Neverwinter. I'm a level 22 Control Wizard and am in a guild with people I've never met before.  We all seem to be having a good time playing and creating our own content for ZERO cash outlay.  Not something I could do at launch with EQ, Guild Wars 2, AoC, WoW, Aion or SWTOR, as I've played each of these games at launch.  If you play Neverwinter with someone, the speed at which you gain astral diamonds is much faster than going it alone.  If you don't invoke once an hour at rest points (campfires) that's your fault. So... not sure why people continue to cry about the cash shop in this game.   Eventually, I will spend money to support development, but it will be for things that I wan't.    

There is a pros and cons list you can make about any game.  Do I think Cryptic / PW got this one completely right.... nope.  Do I think the cash shop is a reason not to play this game.... nope. OP,  If you want to play a game completely for free, Adult Swim has Robot Unicorns and Hemp Tycoon for free right now (adultswimdotcom), though, they might be a bit too grindy for ya.  There aint no free lunch......

 

  Vannor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2889

5/07/13 12:06:13 PM#66
Originally posted by Pandaman102
Originally posted by Vannor

It's no secret that paying will get you there quicker.. but some people blow that out of proportion. They make it sound like it's almost impossible or will take months if you don't pay. It's just not true.

Impossible is certainly a stretch, but why do you say months isn't true?

Let's assume the Astral Diamonds exchange rate drops to 250 AD per ZEN, like it did Dilithium/ZEN in STO and Questionite/ZEN in CO. With two characters, you have a cap of 48000 AD per day, which is 192 ZEN per day.

To Mount Training at 110% you need 2,832,000 AD, which is 59 days of grinding using both characters.

To get a 4000 ZEN epic mount you need another 21 days.

To get a 3500 ZEN epic pet you need another 19 days.

You only really need Coalescent Wards for the last two ranks of an enchantment, so 5 wards at $10 means another 26 days for each rune and enchantment. Let's assume you're making one for your pet, one for your armor, and another for your weapon, so 78 days in total.

That alone comes to 177 days minimum, doesn't that count as "months"?

The wards are on the AH for between 100k-200k AD. That's going to get lower as well once the farmers get their new stock in every 7 days. And like I've said earlier, everyone can get them from invocation.

You earn lots of AD from trading as well.

I mean, I've been playing for 7 days now and I have well over 400k AD. The first 3 days I was trying out classes to level 10 so wasn't earning AD. So yeh, I've put in lots of hours in the last 4 days but 400k is much much faster than what you are calculating based on the 24k a day limit. I havn't been trying to get it either and that's with playing one character (I havn't been getting 24k a day from my other character). It's just come from the usual stuff. I do my dailies, leadership crafting, invocate and I trade items on the AH.

Refining AD isn't the only wany to get it. This 24k limit a day arguement doesn't make sense because you can and always will get more than that.

  sketocafe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 466

5/07/13 12:22:15 PM#67

Lemme check if Tera and Path of Exile still exist.... Yep. Hey, it turns out  you still can do FtoP without involving gear or or other useful things (enchants). Or, you can add these things to your item shop and introduce a grind to allow non-paying players to get them. I know which of these two options I prefer.

  Panzerbase

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 317

5/07/13 12:31:57 PM#68

Let me explain it another way, you're allowed to play for free and experience all the content the game has to offer. If the pace or the equipment is not to your liking well you could fork over a few bucks and let the dev's eat. 

The game represents work, and a great deal of it, even the most mediocre game requires countless hours of design, programming, and management. So get off your slow high horse and fork over a few bucks and relax. In the world of business you don't get to decide what is good and what is bad unless you're the owner, which you are not. You either accept it or you do not. Now if you choose not to accept it that's fine but your ceaseless rattling about fairness over a few measly percentage points is ridiculous. 

I know this, when I log into that game I'm goign to have a blast. So keep typing about the unfair world for the rest of your life, before you know it, it will have passed you on by. 

 

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

5/07/13 12:51:15 PM#69
I love it how OP tries to pretend to be unbiased. But the more you read, the more slanted the post gets. I didnt catch it at first until he started highlighting. Seriously, there is nothing in the cash shop aside from fluff that you cant get by playing the game. Of course its easier to pay money, but thats what is called a convenience fee. From what I have seen, the game is anything but p2win.
  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1005

5/07/13 1:09:09 PM#70
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Pandaman102
Originally posted by Vannor

It's no secret that paying will get you there quicker.. but some people blow that out of proportion. They make it sound like it's almost impossible or will take months if you don't pay. It's just not true.

Impossible is certainly a stretch, but why do you say months isn't true?

Let's assume the Astral Diamonds exchange rate drops to 250 AD per ZEN, like it did Dilithium/ZEN in STO and Questionite/ZEN in CO. With two characters, you have a cap of 48000 AD per day, which is 192 ZEN per day.

To Mount Training at 110% you need 2,832,000 AD, which is 59 days of grinding using both characters.

To get a 4000 ZEN epic mount you need another 21 days.

To get a 3500 ZEN epic pet you need another 19 days.

You only really need Coalescent Wards for the last two ranks of an enchantment, so 5 wards at $10 means another 26 days for each rune and enchantment. Let's assume you're making one for your pet, one for your armor, and another for your weapon, so 78 days in total.

That alone comes to 177 days minimum, doesn't that count as "months"?

The wards are on the AH for between 100k-200k AD. That's going to get lower as well once the farmers get their new stock in every 7 days. And like I've said earlier, everyone can get them from invocation.

You earn lots of AD from trading as well.

I mean, I've been playing for 7 days now and I have well over 400k AD. The first 3 days I was trying out classes to level 10 so wasn't earning AD. So yeh, I've put in lots of hours in the last 4 days but 400k is much much faster than what you are calculating based on the 24k a day limit. I havn't been trying to get it either and that's with playing one character (I havn't been getting 24k a day from my other character). It's just come from the usual stuff. I do my dailies, leadership crafting, invocate and I trade items on the AH.

Refining AD isn't the only wany to get it. This 24k limit a day arguement doesn't make sense because you can and always will get more than that.

 

I am very confused.  First, when someone posted about the guy who hit level 60 in a day from buying crafting materials you said

 

Originally posted by Vannor

Wow.. super P2W.

Still don't think it's P2W? Don't kid yourself.

 

But then you spend the next week here on the forums defending the cash shop and saying it is purely for convenience and anyone can have everything in the game in less than two months.

 

Moving past your bi-polar issues, can anyone earn all the stuff in the game?  YES.  Can a person earn the items needed to be competitive for PVP or high level content in 60 days or less without making NW a second job and running invoc on multiple chars, working the AH for two hours a day and maxing out there AD conversions?  Probably not. 

 

Is the cash shop P2W?  It really depends on your definition of P2W.  I do agree a person who is motivated can spend 4 to 6 hours a day working the system and earn all the things they want in less than 6 months and not pay a dime to Cryptic.  That is really not a bad deal to get everything for free and reward Cryptic with nothing for all their work on the game.  You could also sell that account and make a good bit of cash once you had all those items. 

 

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

5/07/13 1:15:49 PM#71
You know whats funny? The time you could have spent typing up that ridiculous post, you could have mowed a lawn, and gotten the cash you need for that extra bag space, or those rare crafting mats.
  Vannor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2889

5/07/13 1:17:05 PM#72
Originally posted by Talonsin
Originally posted by Vannor
/snip

I am very confused.  First, when someone posted about the guy who hit level 60 in a day from buying crafting materials you said

Originally posted by Vannor

Wow.. super P2W.

Still don't think it's P2W? Don't kid yourself.

But then you spend the next week here on the forums defending the cash shop and saying it is purely for convenience and anyone can have everything in the game in less than two months.

Moving past your bi-polar issues, can anyone earn all the stuff in the game?  YES.  Can a person earn the items needed to be competitive for PVP or high level content in 60 days or less without making NW a second job and running invoc on multiple chars, working the AH for two hours a day and maxing out there AD conversions?  Probably not. 

Is the cash shop P2W?  It really depends on your definition of P2W.  I do agree a person who is motivated can spend 4 to 6 hours a day working the system and earn all the things they want in less than 6 months and not pay a dime to Cryptic.  That is really not a bad deal to get everything for free and reward Cryptic with nothing for all their work on the game.  You could also sell that account and make a good bit of cash once you had all those items. 

After playing I realised it isn't so bad and changed my mind. At first I was like the usual P2W haters. After fighting against the people that have spent money though and grouping with them, I now know that all they've done is lost a lot of money and have none of the game left to play... and are certainly not more powerful than my characters.

  DeaconX

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/05
Posts: 3059

Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone.
-==X==-
SHH, my COMMON SENSE is tingling!

5/07/13 1:25:56 PM#73

When I read

 

"a standard 50% mount goes for 5-8 dollars, a rare 80% mount goes for 20-30 dollars, and an epic 110% mount goes for 30-40 dollars."

I couldn't help but think

"Boy, that escalated quickly!"


Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  apb2011

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/11
Posts: 77

5/07/13 1:30:22 PM#74
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by bubaluba
So??  Nothing is for free in this world, you know ....people must eat

if a cash shop sells 100 items where 5 of them are pay to win and are needed in order to have better gear. The company will not starve if they remove the 5 pay to win items and sell the other 95 items over and over and over.

 

This kind of comment are the most idiotic in history. No offense to you, but to every comment like this one that come out.

How do you know the game company won't starve. I don't think you can even imagine the budget needed to run and keep a game like this running. I agree with bub and every game company that either charges a subscription or cash shop items. Nothing is free, people need to eat, people have kids and responsibilities that require money. I don't mind paying for anything thing MMO related. I have spent over 8000$ on MMOs in the last 10 years. There are plenty of people like me that don't mind paying. If you are a broke teenager/kid and you want to play MMOs in this day and age, GET A JOB!

  kevjards

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 1435

5/07/13 1:32:50 PM#75
have to say i,m kind of disappointed with the fact you cant sub to the game..i would prefer that.f2p is ok but i prefer sub..they should have included this option in the game..only thing they are going to do is drive people away with the costs in the zen shop..they are ridiculously high atm..but no doubt in time when people start moving away from the game they will lower the prices.
  emperorwings

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1252

5/07/13 1:35:15 PM#76
I'm level $60, paid nothing for it. All my runestones and enchantments been bought off the AH with AD which can be farmed daily by doing the daily dungeon, pvp and skirmishes. The max enchants I got were around 500AD which is probly under priced.

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5170

Opportunist

5/07/13 1:49:14 PM#77
Originally posted by DeaconX

When I read

 

"a standard 50% mount goes for 5-8 dollars, a rare 80% mount goes for 20-30 dollars, and an epic 110% mount goes for 30-40 dollars."

I couldn't help but think

"Boy, that escalated quickly!"

Yeah, the cheap stuff isn't that expensive in my opinion.  It's about $6 for 2 character slots, $10 for 24 slot inventory bag, $8 for a mount, and so on.

It's the higher end stuff and the upgrade paths that are pretty spendy.  Those could come down by about 25%.  Even so, outside the companions which make a huge difference, most of that stuff is luxury that you can earn through gameplay and time.

I play STO pretty casually and have only spent $30.  I haven't spent anything on this game yet, well except time, and am progressing okay.  When I get to 60, then maybe I'll drop a few bucks down.

  Vannor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2889

5/07/13 1:53:48 PM#78
Originally posted by DeaconX

When I read

"a standard 50% mount goes for 5-8 dollars, a rare 80% mount goes for 20-30 dollars, and an epic 110% mount goes for 30-40 dollars."

I couldn't help but think

"Boy, that escalated quickly!"

I think the prices for the mounts are rediculous. I'd never buy one.

But they do count towards every character you have and every future character, most games don't do that.. so I guess the more character slots you have (or plan to have) the better value it is.

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

5/07/13 1:58:12 PM#79
Hah, the tier 8 gold tanks in WoT cost $50.
  simsalabim77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 530

5/07/13 2:02:11 PM#80
This game is heavily P2W post 60 if you care at all about being competitive. If you don't, then you can do just fine. You can't do enough grinding in one day to make a dent. 
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