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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Should we settle with mediocre ?

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43 posts found
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6590

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/07/13 11:28:24 AM#21

You hit it on the nail OP and it is not just about NW,it is about all games.Since the entire market is not really doing well,as most every game drops off badly,they are going to go the cheaper investment.Sadly the developers will still lie to you and tell you how great thier AAA game is.

F2p is a tell tale of cheap never mind mediocre.They have to design their game to support all the free loaders.They will still tell you  how great the game is,umm no people are still linear questing like every other game on the market,the difference being you made an uglier game including everything from models,to meshes,to armour,gear,lighting,textures ect ect.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Karahandras

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1659

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

5/07/13 11:33:50 AM#22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Everyone already seems to have. This game would have been laughed off the market 8 years ago.

Now people are so beaten down by sub par MMORPGs that they actually praise a singleplayer game that quickly got multiplayer features added into it, and called an MMO. And that is not hyperbole, this game wasn't going to be an MMO originally. They added that "feature" in a year.

A good MMORPG is designed with multiplayer as its core. Nowadays though, it's just a slim half assed feature tacked onto linear singleplayer experiences.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

5/07/13 12:55:57 PM#23
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Everyone already seems to have. This game would have been laughed off the market 8 years ago.

Now people are so beaten down by sub par MMORPGs that they actually praise a singleplayer game that quickly got multiplayer features added into it, and called an MMO. And that is not hyperbole, this game wasn't going to be an MMO originally. They added that "feature" in a year.

A good MMORPG is designed with multiplayer as its core. Nowadays though, it's just a slim half assed feature tacked onto linear singleplayer experiences.

  You mean laughed off the market like DF1 was?

 Seriously Davis you haven't played Neverwinter (at least not past the tutorial) and have no idea what your talking about. (not a surprise coming from you after all you say DF had eve like success) Its clear you don't like Neverwinter and have intentions of playing it so go back to your favorite game DFUW and stop trolling every Neverwinter thread.

You mean laughed off just like Neverwitner will be in a few months time when the "oooo SHINEY" effect wears off?  Lay off the fanboi sauce.

Davis makes a valid point and is something that has been happening in all MMOs, the Massive Multiplayer in MMORPG.  And calling Neverwinter an MMO is laughable at best.  It's jsut a sales label when in reality it's just a CoOp sort of game.  It is only slightly more MMO than GW1.

 

It's more MMO than DDO which people praise that game now.

Haha no they don't. It was a disaster when it launched and it was only worth playing for a short span of time because it was the only FTP game on the market. It was never a good MMO. Or even really an MMO.

  AZHokie54

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/11
Posts: 295

5/07/13 1:00:06 PM#24

I'm not "settling" for anything. The game is fun as hell to play, and frankly, that's all that matters. When that ends, be it in 2 months or two yeras, I'll stop playing.

 

  thark

Elite Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1105

 
OP  5/07/13 1:07:24 PM#25
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Everyone already seems to have. This game would have been laughed off the market 8 years ago.

Now people are so beaten down by sub par MMORPGs that they actually praise a singleplayer game that quickly got multiplayer features added into it, and called an MMO. And that is not hyperbole, this game wasn't going to be an MMO originally. They added that "feature" in a year.

A good MMORPG is designed with multiplayer as its core. Nowadays though, it's just a slim half assed feature tacked onto linear singleplayer experiences.

  You mean laughed off the market like DF1 was?

 Seriously Davis you haven't played Neverwinter (at least not past the tutorial) and have no idea what your talking about. (not a surprise coming from you after all you say DF had eve like success) Its clear you don't like Neverwinter and have intentions of playing it so go back to your favorite game DFUW and stop trolling every Neverwinter thread.

You mean laughed off just like Neverwitner will be in a few months time when the "oooo SHINEY" effect wears off?  Lay off the fanboi sauce.

Davis makes a valid point and is something that has been happening in all MMOs, the Massive Multiplayer in MMORPG.  And calling Neverwinter an MMO is laughable at best.  It's jsut a sales label when in reality it's just a CoOp sort of game.  It is only slightly more MMO than GW1.

 

It's more MMO than DDO which people praise that game now.

Haha no they don't. It was a disaster when it launched and it was only worth playing for a short span of time because it was the only FTP game on the market. It was never a good MMO. Or even really an MMO.

 

Well..DDO started off as a premium title with monthly subscription, and to be honest it shows in its quality.. Just compare the dungeons and you will have your answer.
  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1067

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

5/07/13 2:53:37 PM#26
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Everyone already seems to have. This game would have been laughed off the market 8 years ago.

Now people are so beaten down by sub par MMORPGs that they actually praise a singleplayer game that quickly got multiplayer features added into it, and called an MMO. And that is not hyperbole, this game wasn't going to be an MMO originally. They added that "feature" in a year.

A good MMORPG is designed with multiplayer as its core. Nowadays though, it's just a slim half assed feature tacked onto linear singleplayer experiences.

  You mean laughed off the market like DF1 was?

 Seriously Davis you haven't played Neverwinter (at least not past the tutorial) and have no idea what your talking about. (not a surprise coming from you after all you say DF had eve like success) Its clear you don't like Neverwinter and have intentions of playing it so go back to your favorite game DFUW and stop trolling every Neverwinter thread.

You mean laughed off just like Neverwitner will be in a few months time when the "oooo SHINEY" effect wears off?  Lay off the fanboi sauce.

Davis makes a valid point and is something that has been happening in all MMOs, the Massive Multiplayer in MMORPG.  And calling Neverwinter an MMO is laughable at best.  It's jsut a sales label when in reality it's just a CoOp sort of game.  It is only slightly more MMO than GW1.

 

It's more MMO than DDO which people praise that game now.

Haha no they don't. It was a disaster when it launched and it was only worth playing for a short span of time because it was the only FTP game on the market. It was never a good MMO. Or even really an MMO.

 

Well..DDO started off as a premium title with monthly subscription, and to be honest it shows in its quality.. Just compare the dungeons and you will have your answer.

You mean how DDO had voice acted parts where a narrator describes your surroundings, making it feel more like a game of tabletop D&D?

Other than that, there isn't really much of a difference between the dungeons in both games.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  spikers14

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 350

5/07/13 3:58:26 PM#27
Originally posted by Joejc7135

I have to disagree that dumping massive amounts of money into a game makes it "good". Talented dev teams that actually care about their game is what makes a "good" game. I guess money can improve the presentation of the game, but even then it won't matter unless their is talent behind that process as well. I don't understand why so many feel theatened by F2P games..they have their place in the market...just as AAA big budget crapfests like SWTOR have theirs. People are simply unwilling to shell out 60 dollars and a sub to demo a game these days. F2P gives them the option to try before they buy.

Agreed...and this applies to all games, not just MMO's and certainly not just Neverwinter. Talent and implementation > money. 

 

If you've ever been surprised by a game that was flying under your radar, that's proof right there. However, I've played more mediocre games than great games over the years. It's nothing new that a few games stand out. This has been true since the Atari 2600. 

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2771

5/07/13 4:16:35 PM#28

What continually amazes me is the amounts of money people are throwing at Neverwinter. I was reading a thread on the official forums where people were discussing how much they had spent so far.

 

Quite a few are already well past $300... and the game's only been "released" for a week !!

 

  AIMonster

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2016

5/07/13 4:37:19 PM#29

I don't understand why these companies aren't using the LOL model.  If you aren't familiar with the model the only things sold in the cash shop are skins, champions (which can be unlocked at a very quick rate with "IP" earned through normal play), and XP/IP boosters.  It's primarily cosmetic and you don't gain any advantage in game from using the cash shop.

More importantly these P2W games rely on whales to sustain their game (which make up a small percentage of players, but spend WAY more than a casual spender) while a game like League of Legends seems to be relying on lots of casual buyers who maybe buy a champion or skin here and there once a month to sustain their game.  The quality of the game is effected in the whale model since you need to constantly give those players expensive advantages to spend their money on, but in a good cash shop model like LOL the quality doesn't suffer since the cash shop is primarily cosmetic.  League of Legends (and other games with similar cash shops like Bloodline Champions and even Planetside 2) are obviously doing very well as LOL is currently the #1 played PC game for a few years now.

I personally think the sub model is dated and archaic though I'm certainly not saying F2P (especially P2W) is the future, but games like GW2 and LOL prove models like B2P and Cosmetic F2P can work and have lots of quality content without the game quality suffering as a result.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

5/07/13 5:00:23 PM#30

I think after a decade of broken promises people are just tired of it all. No one is drinking the cool aid anymore. We know better than that after a decade of hype and triple AAA MMORPG releases that were all supposed to be third coming of Jesus. This is it folks, this is as good as it's going to get. Hell, look at the FPS industry.

You either enjoy things for what they are--that is a few months of entertainment, or find a different hobby.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3714

RIP City of Heroes!

5/07/13 5:03:17 PM#31
Originally posted by Krytycal

I think after a decade of broken promises people are just tired of it all. No one is drinking the cool aid anymore. We know better than that after a decade of hype and triple AAA MMORPG releases that were all supposed to be third coming of Jesus. This is it folks, this is as good as it's going to get. Hell, look at the FPS industry.

You either enjoy things for what they are--that is a few months of entertainment, or find a different hobby.

 Gamers need to be more grounded in their expectations.  The next game won't be your highest high.

  thark

Elite Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1105

 
OP  5/07/13 5:38:30 PM#32
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Everyone already seems to have. This game would have been laughed off the market 8 years ago.

Now people are so beaten down by sub par MMORPGs that they actually praise a singleplayer game that quickly got multiplayer features added into it, and called an MMO. And that is not hyperbole, this game wasn't going to be an MMO originally. They added that "feature" in a year.

A good MMORPG is designed with multiplayer as its core. Nowadays though, it's just a slim half assed feature tacked onto linear singleplayer experiences.

  You mean laughed off the market like DF1 was?

 Seriously Davis you haven't played Neverwinter (at least not past the tutorial) and have no idea what your talking about. (not a surprise coming from you after all you say DF had eve like success) Its clear you don't like Neverwinter and have intentions of playing it so go back to your favorite game DFUW and stop trolling every Neverwinter thread.

You mean laughed off just like Neverwitner will be in a few months time when the "oooo SHINEY" effect wears off?  Lay off the fanboi sauce.

Davis makes a valid point and is something that has been happening in all MMOs, the Massive Multiplayer in MMORPG.  And calling Neverwinter an MMO is laughable at best.  It's jsut a sales label when in reality it's just a CoOp sort of game.  It is only slightly more MMO than GW1.

 

It's more MMO than DDO which people praise that game now.

Haha no they don't. It was a disaster when it launched and it was only worth playing for a short span of time because it was the only FTP game on the market. It was never a good MMO. Or even really an MMO.

 

Well..DDO started off as a premium title with monthly subscription, and to be honest it shows in its quality.. Just compare the dungeons and you will have your answer.

You mean how DDO had voice acted parts where a narrator describes your surroundings, making it feel more like a game of tabletop D&D?

Other than that, there isn't really much of a difference between the dungeons in both games.

 Ok..If you really feel this way, It's up to you. Let me ask you , How did you play it ?

Did you play it with friends that are all new to the game or did you play and join open groups , with players that has been doing these same dungeons for years ?

But NO WAY are the super linear dungeons of Neverwinter even the slightest bit comparable to Turbines DDO..

.The traps the multiple choices , the need for co-operation., and even puzzles...The need for most classes are also way higher, sure they have nerfed it alot over the last years , implementing solo versions of most dungeons in the beginning etc.. 

.Naturally there is some of them that are linear and doesnt demand much of it's players ..But the majority is VERY good.

 

 

  thark

Elite Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1105

 
OP  5/07/13 6:56:44 PM#33

After browsing trough all answers here I can see diffrent views..

Some say that Neverwinter is fun , sure it's fun.and for those players that is enough it seems ..

Most of the time I'd agree to this aswell, If a game is fun then It's worth playing, yeah sure :) But If you settle for less we will get cheaper and cheaper games with each year that passes, we are It's consumers , and If the consumers are SATISFIED there is NO NEED for improvements at all, you can just create Newerwinter 2 next year with the same engine and start cashing in from new items in the shop yet again..

 the quaility in Neverwinter is really lacking...I think most of it reeks of poor freebee quality , , the voice acting , the characther graphics , the dialogues, the super linear dungeons,. the only thing I havent felt beeing poor is the actual city of Neverwinter wich is rather good looking. It's like the small cheap burger at Mc Donalds , it's basically stripped of as much as possible , so that not to much customers complain that there really isn't any meat left in it..Same with Neverwinter it has very little meat because it's players is saticfied with it ,so why bother then ?

As an example, several Facebook games can also be fun as hell and entertain you for several months , years even..But the quality is beyond cheap...It's easy to access and plays in your browser, yet there are FAR better games in ALL categories out there , still people choose to play FARMVILLE instead of a quality product..Why is that ? Time ? Money ? easy access ?

It's US the consumers that sets the rules for the market, and to be honest , I'm abit afraid of what is starting to happen..

This phenomena is also evident in the film industry, if the consumers pay to see yet another Friday the 13 th part 19 there will be less and less real quailty films like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones series....

Ohh Well..

  thark

Elite Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1105

 
OP  5/08/13 6:19:00 AM#34
Originally posted by Joejc7135

I have to disagree that dumping massive amounts of money into a game makes it "good". Talented dev teams that actually care about their game is what makes a "good" game. I guess money can improve the presentation of the game, but even then it won't matter unless their is talent behind that process as well. I don't understand why so many feel theatened by F2P games..they have their place in the market...just as AAA big budget crapfests like SWTOR have theirs. People are simply unwilling to shell out 60 dollars and a sub to demo a game these days. F2P gives them the option to try before they buy.

 Think about what you said really..What does it take to get talented people working for you ?

 Money is needed to hire the talents..even the caring ones :) The more talent the more money..

I agree with the caring for your game and work thou, that is a cornerstone in every craftmansship isn't it ?

FtP gives you the option to try out the game before they buy anything, thats all nice in theory ..

 However To create a game that doesn't demand a entry fee(Box price)  nor  have a monthly fee, to be uncertain of how much money they can ever earn set's the develoment budget to very low for such a game, this is the reduced quality I'm talking about..

Naturally, the quality for such game can increase/decrease in time due to popularity..

With Cryptic and Perfect World buying certain quality "names" they made sure that they had some sort of insurence that this game would actually be somewhat popular..D&D and Neverwinter ...Imagine what would have happened if they didnt have those names on their homepage...

SWTOR did get a miljon sold boxes atleast, It's also a extreme example of things going wrong, but also a daring project, and even thou you consider SWTOR a crapfest, it is a product of super high product value..To be honest I don't think Bioware alone is responsible for everything that wen't badly with this game, It's the market that pushed it in a certain direction that is the culprit.

We can have a 500 page assey of what went wrong here really, so let's leave it at that.. 

 

  SupportPlayerMM

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 335

5/08/13 6:28:51 AM#35

This is the MMO community, 90% (My made up math number that can be considered accurate by most (I said it "Can" be not that it is as there is no possible way of gauging most" people but have no charts to prove it because it's fictional)

as I was saying

90% of the MMO's are crap so Neverwinter actually being enjoyable is quite a win for me. As for settling, the way I should of approached it in my earlier comment in this thread is "we" as a MMO playerbase never settle... "we" for the most part have no loyalty and all hop from MMO to MMO. I could logically believe a conspiracy theory that the big MMO's of the past set up this market so we would hop from game to game to game and keep providing money in their pockets. So we don't settle, when we're unhappy we do move on but we also can't make a development team release a "good" game because much like Neverwinter, I enjoy it a lot of people do and a lot of people hate it. What I like may differ from you so there will never be a game that ever releases where everyone feels they settled and everyone else feels it's a quality product.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2579

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/08/13 6:40:36 AM#36
 I have been playing NW And have yet to purchase anything and I am having fun.  I don't care if I don't have enough bag space I just adapt and live with what I got.  I don't care if my mount is all spectacular looking, I will walk or ride a pack mule for all I care.  Most of those complaining about the cash shop are suffering from SGS (spoiled gamer syndrome) in all honesty.

  emperorwings

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1318

5/08/13 7:31:25 AM#37
Had to buy a bag because higher level drop more stuff. So, it's not really free. I'm fine with the crappy mount or walking. I see that it becomes about enchantments and runestones which will probly end up costing the most. But to enjoy all pve content you don't have to worry about that.

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 582

5/08/13 7:36:53 AM#38
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Everyone already seems to have. This game would have been laughed off the market 8 years ago.

Now people are so beaten down by sub par MMORPGs that they actually praise a singleplayer game that quickly got multiplayer features added into it, and called an MMO. And that is not hyperbole, this game wasn't going to be an MMO originally. They added that "feature" in a year.

A good MMORPG is designed with multiplayer as its core. Nowadays though, it's just a slim half assed feature tacked onto linear singleplayer experiences.

Sorry but does it need to be a fully fledged MMORPG to be fun? Or if it isn't one, I need to stop having fun? Just wondering

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 582

5/08/13 7:38:02 AM#39
Originally posted by Betaguy
 I have been playing NW And have yet to purchase anything and I am having fun.  I don't care if I don't have enough bag space I just adapt and live with what I got.  I don't care if my mount is all spectacular looking, I will walk or ride a pack mule for all I care.  Most of those complaining about the cash shop are suffering from SGS (spoiled gamer syndrome) in all honesty.

Yeah, spot on. You also get a free bag round level 6 and another one at he end of the Graveyard

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10429

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/08/13 8:12:29 AM#40


Originally posted by muthax

Originally posted by DavisFlight Everyone already seems to have. This game would have been laughed off the market 8 years ago. Now people are so beaten down by sub par MMORPGs that they actually praise a singleplayer game that quickly got multiplayer features added into it, and called an MMO. And that is not hyperbole, this game wasn't going to be an MMO originally. They added that "feature" in a year. A good MMORPG is designed with multiplayer as its core. Nowadays though, it's just a slim half assed feature tacked onto linear singleplayer experiences.
Sorry but does it need to be a fully fledged MMORPG to be fun? Or if it isn't one, I need to stop having fun? Just wondering



Until PWE bought them out, Cryptic did not label NW as an MMO. I don't think they had any intention of going in that direction with the game, which seemed like a smart move to me. PWE decided that it would be called an MMO.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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